LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby wh..sh » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:35 pm

Tengerguy wrote:>>Just campaign for a fictitious Libertarian candidate. That is doing what you want to do in pure burner fashion.<<

Tengerguy wrote:One more example of how I have no idea what is going on.

Exactly! Its important to know your audience before advertising or campaigning. And that might have been your fail. Any one can pass on pamplets, needs no talent for that!

If you are aware about the community, you would be well aware how much people frown up advertisement for personal gain. And a political campaign is the nastiest of all!
If your goal is to spread political awareness and education, that could be done in a nongaryjohnson or nonparty kind of way.
If politics is your passion, you could create a white house theme camp and make it fun and interactive education about American politcal system.

After 3 years, if your goal is personal gain and to gather votes for some guy, it truly is unforturnate.

If you are an amazing person, people would like to know what or who inspires you. If you are disconnected with your audience, you aren't going to find much help.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:39 pm

Simon,

OK. Jesus. Think you could tone it down just a notch or two? -- I could hear you clearer. But I get the anger. I get I screwed up here. I apologize. I am grateful (truly) for the feedback here. It saved me from screwing up out there.

Rereading my initial post even without your feedback it looks stupid today.

What can I say? It was late. I was tired. It was an idea. I sought feedback. I think if I had left it unposted for a day, and then looked again I'd have gone -- naw, that's a stupid idea. But no, I've got to go an post right away thinking time is short to pull something like this off and also thinking well, everyone at BM has got to be Libertarian-ish at heart. Right? (Well, I'd LIKE to think that.)

>>Honestly, unless it's being done as political theater it's really annoying to run into politics out there.<<

If I saw promotional material for the other candidates, I'd be annoyed too. Sorry I didn't get out of my own box here.

Sorry I was blind to thinking Libertarian and Burning Man go together like Mitt and Rush, or Marx and Mao, or whatever. But that's how it looks when you're in love with TWO things/people. You tend to assume they'd love each other too. Bad assumption.

Somewhere around here I used to have a "Wouldn't you really rather vote for Kermit?" button. But I think I'll leave that at home too.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:45 pm

joe, i can say the rudest most stupidest things sometimes. usually into a megaphone at 7 am on sunday morning...thats the best...

i digress.

everybody fucks up.


i fuck up alot.


i also learn alot that way :twisted:

no harm done, sorry if my east coast asshole scared you, im not really that mean, come over to root society and we'll talk about the election, BUT ONLY BRIEFLY, and maybe have a drink...

im voting for the Black guy, BTW, because Mormons are Alien scum...
fuck you, it's magic


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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:50 pm

Simon,

One more sorry, my request to tone it down was being written as you posted your last (VERY KIND -- THANKS) message.

It's been less than two years since I first considered going to BM. Bought a ticket online on the last day of the sale in 2010.

IF I'd gotten tickets in January, I'd have had time to consider a fake White House or the like. Part of what was lost here in getting two last minute STEP tickets was the time to ponder how to do this best since then.

Maybe you know my friend Starchild from SF who was elected to the LNC -- and is a long time burner. He had a GREAT idea for a multi-day game based on libertarian ideals. Sadly he's not coming this year.

ANY other ideas you've got are sincerely welcome. Maybe something to be developed 3 1/2 years or so from now.

I was never active in politics until I met Gary back in December. Guy climbed Everest. Isn't bought out by the major corporate interests. So I'm a bit surprised by the last few months of working for the campaign (it's like the first time I fell in love almost 40 years ago -- and seems to be that way with the folks I'm working with -- loooong hours, lots of passion. Only 87 more days to go . . . maybe given your background we can find some common ground there. (I did earn an MBA from Purdue, and a PhD from Indiana, so I'm usually not this stupid in the arenas where that means something. Performance art execution at BM though? I feel like I'm back in Introductory Mongolian.

Joe (yep, I really took that course at IU. Subject-object THEN verb oriented language. BM felt that foreign the first year, and only slightly less so last year)
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:58 pm

>.im voting for the Black guy, BTW, because Mormons are Alien scum...<<

NOW we are getting somewhere. I will (try to) find Root Society and look you up.

I'll be the guy wearing the PERFECT T-shirt for that meeting (based on your comment above).

1) it's Black.

2) It says: UFOs are REAL, the Government Doesn't Exist.


I'm voting for the one guy advocating non-violence. But given your first posts here I can see why you'd vote for the Nobel-Peace-Prize-Winning-Drone-Killer-of-Kids-and-Other-"Terrorists" Who Has Also Ramped Up The War On Drugs Here At Home Black Man . . .

Joe

(God, I hope that last line made you laugh. If not . . . well, here we go again)
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:02 pm

true story Joe...

i was a delegate for Jerry MoonBeam Brown in 92'

i took mushrooms on the night of clinton's nomination speech.

seriously.


i had a moment, at some party, i was talking to Don Novello (guido sarducci) and he told me

"it's all shit, all of this, it's a fucking shit show, put on for consumption, bread and circus, thats all"

i went outside and had a cigarette and cried...

he was right.

i poured my heart and soul into that crap, and you know what.

in the end, it is shit, and i'm afraid only sad disillusionment awaits you.

remember, as stated above, know thy audience. this is America, look around you...

politics is a blood sport for geeks....it's vicious, and morally corrupt...the game is rigged, the players are too.

i would take up a heroin habit before i turn into a Pol Junkie again....

enjoy your burn....Blow shit up....dance....forget about all of that for a week, it might do ya good...

maybe a refresh.

i for one dont want to go back into that cesspool known as national politics ever again.


unless it's to vote for the Black Guy, because Mormons ARE alien scum...
fuck you, it's magic


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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby BBadger » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:15 pm

Tengerguy wrote:So in the world of making good come out of this (especially for those I pissed off here by being stupid (I've been to TWO -- 2010 alone, 2011 with my wife -- this was my first attempt to even think about a theme camp . . . call me slow and stupid too if you want).

Here's the policy that I looked at BEFORE posting here

>>>>>The display of commercial logos and banners, or distribution of commercial promotional items or materials is prohibited. <<<<<<

So I'm thinking -- hey, this is not commercial. It's political. Gary is the only candidate advocating legalizing drugs (not just pot), the only one for a federal civil right for gay marriage, . . . etc (I won't risk seeming to shill here by going through the other issues) == fits right in with Burning Man (hey, I ALREADY said I was stupid above, okay?)


Just like my view of the ridiculous political advertising exceptions in the National Do Not Call Registry, I draw ZERO DISTINCTION between political advertisements and commercial advertisement. They are the both promoting a product with a lot of vested interest. Don't pretend there are any purer motives in political advertising compared to commercial advertising. They're both the same shit-we-don't-want-to-see-or-hear.

Oh and spare us the rationalization shit that just because this politician happens to support "Burner Values" that it is somehow more acceptable than some giant Mitt Romney billboard appearing over a camp. If BMOrg starts allowing political advertising on the playa I will personally work with others to build some of the most obnoxious, Super PACed, blatantly political advertising media around BRC just to force a knee-jerk reaction and subsequent explicit bans that should result.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Lonesomebri » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Tengerguy wrote:I'm voting for the one guy advocating non-violence. But given your first posts here I can see why you'd vote for the Nobel-Peace-Prize-Winning-Drone-Killer-of-Kids-and-Other-"Terrorists" Who Has Also Ramped Up The War On Drugs Here At Home Black Man . . .


The small government govenor.... Are there any Libertarians who aren't Republicans? It seems like they develope these noble stances always a few minutes after actually leaving the positions of power. Whay is that?
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:27 pm

Simon,

>>forget about all of that for a week, it might do ya good...<<

Your advice here just keeps getting better and better.

Thanks for the candor.

Yeah, my FAVORITE Broadway Musical is Man of La Mancha. It's a Long shot. The odds are against us. We're certain to be crushed. But if he could get in the debates . . . then . . . well, my favorite movie was Star Wars (the first one that then became the fourth one).

So, I see what happened here.

1) I want to take a week away from all that shit, and there's no place further away from IT than BM (except for the drug sniffing dogs, TSA agents and other crap like that that is there now)

2) I was feeling guilty about that.

3) I was looking to have both.

What if my week away from working for LIBERTY playing at Burning Man is what cost us the election, is what cost my kids living in freedom 20 years from now? (OK a bit exaggerated, but maybe, based on what you just said, you were there once too?)

So I've got a choice to look at. Get to BM with my kid. Sell the tickets somehow (they're waiting at will call I gather) and stay and work my ass off here that week.

I already took the kid to Mongolian in 2008 for the August 1st Total Solar Eclipse (and then the Beijing Olympics -- all done on the insanely cheap BTW --stayed with former students (long story) so do I really need another dad/son adventure?

HELL YES.

So here's the NEW PLAN -- He and I can wear our Black LIVE FREE Gary Johnson for President T-shirts for PART of one day. Serendipity will either connect us with the other Burner libertarians that are out there or not, and/or we'll get angry feedback or whatever. It'll be perfect however it is. No theme camp. No week of political conversations. No campaign material gifting to anyone during BM. (Although I may put up some GJ Yard Signs on the way over and back here and there). The one poster that's already in my back window stays. The greeters can have it if it's a problem.

One drink with you at Root Society.

There's the win-win starting to happen here that I was looking for when I first posted . . .

Kinda tame for a third year, but damnitall, I only got the STEP tickets a few days ago. Till then I wasn't thinking about any of this . . just disappointed that the trip I'd promised my son to BM as a Birthday Present last Christmas Eve wasn't looking like it was happening . . . So still open to ideas and working on my own over here too,

Joe
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Lonesomebri » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:29 pm

No More Years
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby dj_john69 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:31 pm

Tengerguy wrote:Hey guys,

1) If I was out to shill, I doubt I'd be asking for community feedback here and now; but I get the anger, desire to leave Politics out in the default world. I respect that. I stand corrected and apologize for whatever degree that was part of my developing agenda. That was wrong.

2) The threats are very off putting. FUCK YOU. Come mess with my shit and If I catch you I'll do what I can to grap a cop and try to throw your ass in jail and/or make you pay for the damage. Yep. I'm that Libertarian.

3) I'd still like to connect with Gary Johnson/Libertarian fans who are also Burners. Seem like my tribe to me.

4) So, any ideas on how to do that without risking some asshat throws a rock at my car, or picks a fight with my son, or somehow ruins an otherwise great experience, are welcome.

>>Just campaign for a fictitious Libertarian candidate. That is doing what you want to do in pure burner fashion.<<

I like that idea. Looking for more. (and could give a shit if asking a question here sets some people off -- non-violence is the key, education and persuasion are the path -- not threats of violence (or violence itself) THAT is what I've had enough of in the default world!)

Joe


Go fuck yourself douchebag !!! You suck buddy. STAY AT HOME
Fuck you, fuck you...you're cool, fuck you !!
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:36 pm

[quote="Lonesomebri"][quote="Tengerguy"]I'm voting for the one guy advocating non-violence. But given your first posts here I can see why you'd vote for the Nobel-Peace-Prize-Winning-Drone-Killer-of-Kids-and-Other-"Terrorists" Who Has Also Ramped Up The War On Drugs Here At Home Black Man . . .[/quote]

The small government govenor.... Are there any Libertarians who aren't Republicans? It seems like they develope these noble stances always a few minutes [i][b]after [/b][/i]actually leaving the positions of power. Whay is that?[/quote]


Read: http://cannabisnews.com/news/7/thread7965.shtml

It's from 12 years ago.

I met Mike Gravel at a libertarian event. The Democrat who read the Pentagon Papers into the Congressional Record. He's a hero too.

Barr/Root in 2008 was a disaster. I swore I'd never vote for a former republican running as a libertarian again. Drove to Santa Fe to meet Gary in person when he made the switch. Took about a month to reconsider my position. The Playboy interview above republished in cannabis news is worth looking at.

I don't want turn ePlaya into a political arena anymore than I'd want the PlayaPlaya to be that in 18 days. The post about a GIANT ROMENY BILLBOARD is right.

But if you really want to end the war on (innocent Americans who use) drugs -- Gary called for this as a sitting Governor over a dozen years ago and has been working for it since, as has Jim Gray, retired Superior Court Judge, our VP candidate.

That said -- it occurs to me that LEAP would/should be at Burning Man (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition).

But maybe that is out of alignment with the core values too?
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby FIGJAM » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:57 pm

There's a thread over in open discusion called "polatics all day everyday".

You can stand on your soap box over there as long as you like! 8)
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:07 pm

Bob,

>>The Trojan horse is already out of the barn with the OWS (hah!) funded (hah!) art (hah!) installation.

Bring it.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yeah, WTF is THIS:

http://burnwallstreet.net

"Forged from the financial unrest and injustice that has incensed the American public, Burn Wall Street’s core intention is built on participation, one of the Ten Principles of Burning Man."

Yeah . . . right.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Lonesomebri » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:11 pm

Burning stuff politically is okay.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby FIGJAM » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:20 pm

Burning political figures, even better! :twisted:
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Eric » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:26 pm

Tengerguy wrote:Yeah, WTF is THIS:


The only people who will take the politics behind that seriously are the builders & some hippies. The rest of us will go "cool buildings, I bet they burn nice!" or "doesn't look like they'll make a good fire". Just like the only people who take the theme seriously are the BMorg & some hippies.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Eric,

>> The rest of us will go "cool buildings, I bet they burn nice!" or "doesn't look like they'll make a good fire".<<

If only I'd paid attention and noticed they were going to blow up Coffee Stop 2 years ago. THAT made one HELL of a mushroom cloud.

You're right. This looks like a crappy layout for a fire. I think I'll skip it.

I am thinking about proposing this as an art project for next year though.

How deep will BLM let us dig on the Playa?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnX-D4kkPOQ

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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Lonesomebri » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:36 pm

They all have our best intrests at heart.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:48 am

Yesterday on my way home from work I was asked if I wanted to help save Planned Parenthood. Then I had to dodge Amnesty International. Nothing against either group, but I'd like to get from my place of employ to my public transit in peace...
And I know, all htey want is my money followed by my email/telephone so they can ask me for more money in a couple of weeks.

No thank you.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


Get a Taint, you pathetic cur!
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:34 pm

Just watched the video at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xRrKbX9ss4

And have decided to channel my earlier energy into supporting the BWS art project.

http://burnwallstreet.net/

I especially align with the artist's comments beginning at 3:10 in on the video. They are PERFECT!

You may find my son and I over there from time to time performing as protesters in the park. Other than that I've abandoned any/all plans as initially outlined above, really do appreciate the feedback, and apologize for any upset or concern I caused here.

(I'm also now committed to removing any/all non-performance art political shit I see out there.)

Best,

Joe

I mean, how perfect is this --

3:10 in on the above video -- "To push their representatives to fix these things. And if their representatives don't do it, to kick their representatives out of office and maybe even create a third party. All this takes an extreme amount of work. Everybody wants instant push button gratification. The reality is creating a new political party takes about 20 years and you have to start by taking over the school board and the local town council and the mayor, etc. And you build the foundation for a political party. So if that's the way you want to go, that's the way you've got to think; long-term and get it done." -- Otto Von Danger
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby amarantha » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:06 am

Just wanted to say I think these are great answers:

Simon of the Playa wrote:so, dont be afraid to be political, just dont bring anything but yourself and your ideas and let those loose upon the playa, you'll probably have a greater effect in the long run.

Eric wrote:Put a small sign up in your camp, see if it attracts interest. Honestly, unless it's being done as political theater it's really annoying to run into politics out there. Some of the people I love most both on the playa & here on ePlaya have vastly different political opinions than me, but I don't choose my friends based on whether-or-not they follow everything I believe in (okay, they can't be homophobic - one rule). If there were political signs at camps on the playa I wouldn't have some of these close friends, because I would just look at that "___ for President" sign & roll my eyes

While it's great to see you strongly support a candidate, I agree with the other posters that BRC isn't the best place to do it (now, using social media to find Libertarian Burners outside the event is fine!). The outside world is already moving steadily in with excessive camp dues & plug-and-play camps with their gilded toilets, I really don't think we need politics in the mix.

Like Eric (but more extreme), I have at least one campmate whom I DO NOT EVER hang out with in the default world because we find each other's political views morally repugnant (literally to the point that we can't be in the same room for more than a few minutes--we're both slightly fanatical about our respective views), but we are TOTALLY COOL on the playa! Never an ounce of tension, and in fact, even love. Truly a magical place.

I also think this is awesome:

Tengerguy wrote:So, FYI, I went alone in 2010, 52 years old, never did drugs, Boy Scout type, married, 4 kids, from Utah but never Mormon, and not in any religion, working through all the distortions about what kind of place Burning Man would be, stunned by the art, and gifting, and general kindness and craziness. So spent that one mostly stunned.

Went last year with my wife who was also working through here fears of the worst images of BM that are out there. Had a great time.

Right on Tengerguy! I hope your son loves it too.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:24 am

I can't entertain the illusion that I can influence anyone's political belief with a post on the internet or even a camp on the playa. All we can do is preach to the choir and get our personal delusions confirmed.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Tengerguy » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:55 am

Thanks amarantha and Ugly Dougly,

The douche bag, fucker, whack job responses were in the way of the experience I'd like to create on the playa -- but, hey I started this, so no blame -- but honest to god it wasn't anything more than it's my third year, want it to be great for my 17 1/2 year old son (who is missing the first three days of his senior year of high school to get out there with me), and I'm thinking I need to take the giving and contribution up (After basically having a second-honeymoon out there last year) and (and isn't Burning Man (at least in part in the first experiences of it) largely a projection of what you want it to be?) I'm thinking everyone out there is fighting for the same things in the default world -- ending the wars on (non-violent Americans who use) drugs, the wars overseas, on gays, and end the fed, stop the crazy borrowing from other nations and bankrupting our kids . . . so I kinda (stupidly) assume everyone's interested in that and I've got a ton of shit I can give to those who are. So I post here to get ideas and . . .. in the context of that what came first -- I just wanna say your two messages just made my day and help to drop the fear (and embarrassment) I've been experiencing.

I'm also freakin sleep deprived from the 18+ hour volunteer days I'm putting in, trying to get ahead of everything to be out there and I guess that's about as crazy-tired/fried as most people are when they arrive (or when they post here).

:-)

So I'm working on ideas for next year (and beyond) and unlike this year won't wait until I get tickets to make plans . . .

So it's all good.

Joe

I'm thinking now of some kind of "Contact the Libertarian Extraterrestrials UFO Landing Zone" art project/night-time event out in the Playa each night playing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yTkrdsg4Qo loud enough to overwhelm the dub step camps)

[youtube]http://youtu.be/4yTkrdsg4Qo[/youtube]
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby ZaphodBurner » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:49 pm

More importantly, who win in a fight between 300 Spartans and the Libertarians?

So... It seems like maybe the hang-up is the political schwag, but, why would having a political sign in your camp area be any more annoying than a PETA or Che Guevara camp? I like what Eric said. If it's there, but not intrusive, people who are interested might come of to see what you're about. Seems reasonable. Hail Sparta.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby gaminwench » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:25 am

... and that, ladies & gentlemen,

is why I love eplaya.
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby wh..sh » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:I can't entertain the illusion that I can influence anyone's political belief with a post on the internet or even a camp on the playa. All we can do is preach to the choir and get our personal delusions confirmed.

Your wisdom knows no bounds!
In my world there's only legible and more legible.

-Bob
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:28 am

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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby Lonesomebri » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:37 am

Whenever I, a self-acknoledged douche, think of giving and sharing with the community, I first think of food and beverages, ice cones, coffee camps, pancakes, then I think about the gift of labor, sweating for another, next comes laughs and art and live music, free hugs are in here, somewhere way down that list are dj's. Oh well, someone's political beliefs as to the solutions to all our concerns.......I'm sure someone will welcome that heartfelt gift. Heck, I got some of that to give also !

As for expression, I'm all for that. Put up yard signs for the other competeing candidates also, in a row, as performance art, I'm sure that will bring in conversation and even more questions about the less known candidates and parties. It'll be a lively exchange of ideas. Sort of like here......

And that evening, Spartans vs. Libertarians, In The DOME !!!!
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Re: LIVE FREE - Libertarian Party Theme Camp?!?

Postby HandJamMasterC » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:47 am

If you only would take a Ron Paul for President poster and put Rue Paul on it, you might have something ! :lol:

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