Suicidal Tendencies

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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby goathead » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:13 am

fever dreams
the only ones i ever remember
i never remember dreaming
i day dream about dreams
wish i had them
wish for an opium den
and the chance to dream
Ffwcio eich diwrnod
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Tpaxhnte ball aehb
Nasrat na vas den
Namaste, zkurvysynu
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby knowmad » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:56 am

Whoa!
I took some time off from reading this thread and haven't seen geeksters posting.
(((geekster)))
Um dono if you'll be reading... Bfwiw.
Try to include your brother in laws highschool afair in the healing prosses. (of course, with taste and discression in regards to his wife and children). She'll be in a world of hurt and may be pushed to the edge too. A gesture of kindness could prevent a domino effect in what is already a tradgity.
Agian sorry you are experiancing this with your famly.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:12 am

goathead wrote:...fever dreams...

Is that an established phenomenon, or did you just coin the phrase?
Although, in my case, I do not remember them.

gyre wrote:But it sounds like you're talking about a more dramatic experience.

Well, that's the question. Physical violence between family members is unthinkable in my world. So let's theorize that maybe my recent dream of fighting my father hand-to-hand to the death found its way out of the subconscious as a result of the immediately preceding unprecedented emotional upheaval (my peek into the abyss of suicide).
Yes, I'm trying to psychoanalyze myself, since no professional is going to do it.

Two tidbits from Wikipedia on dreaming:
"According to Sigmund Freud, dreams are more often forgotten entirely, perhaps due to their prohibited character."
"At least 95% of all dreams are not remembered."

Where did that dream about my father come from, and what other dark forces are lurking in there? Certainly could explain that paralyzing depression, I suspect.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby NessaZee » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:06 am

Elliot wrote::D
Nine days without a post -- mental healthiness has broken out all over the land!

About that business of dreams.
I'm reading a novel where the protagonist suffers from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and he talks of sweating profusely during nightmares.
And earlier, somewhere else (non-fiction), I've read that we do not remember the many dreams we have while we sleep; but only the last one, the one that is still more-or-less running when we wake up.
Third, I used to find myself soaked in sweat in the middle of the night, quite often. For some time -- years -- it was routine for me to change my shirt and pillow in the middle of the night.
Finally, there was the recent dream, out of the blue, where I killed my father.

Putting these four items together, it occurs to me that I may have had a lot of narsty dreams that I do not remember. I used to think of the sweating as a result of temperature changes in the house; the number of blankets I had over me, and maybe kicked off me; that sort of thing. Now I'm not so sure. Considering how close I have been to Intolerable Desperation, maybe years of "secret" nightmares would explain some things? Is this plausible?

Thoughts? Knowledge?


it's possible that the sweating could be caused by nightmares you are not aware of...and if this is how it works, I think there are at least two benefits.
1) body works out toxins through sweating. essentially, a good sweat is helping to unload a lot of the glug that your lymphatic system has collected. Our lymphatic systems need help to eject the waste, they have no muscles of their own to contract like our intestines. sweating, massage and dry-brushing all help this waste disposal system work it's best. bathe in the morning to wash off any residue before it absorbs back into the skin.
2) nightmares are a way to work through emotions we have ignored or tucked away inside. Some of these emotions are terrible to face so we compartmentalize them so we don't have to 'deal' with them consciously. I think 'nightmares' bring these feeling back to the surface.

i don't know. our bodies are pretty spectacular and i think that all of the things we experience through them are functional. it's beautiful :)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:32 am

Appreciate your input, NessaZee!

1.... Sure. But I would much rather do my healthy sweating during the day, from vigorous work and recreation, as opposed to having it interfere with my precious sleep.

2.... Right. But if I have nightmares I don't remember, it does not do any good, now does it? From what I understand, there is no guarantee that a nightmare will wake us up while it is happening, so we can remember it and go to work on dealing with the stuff.

Yeah, Mother Nature has designed some pretty fabulous bodies for us to live in. But so long as some of us wind up murdering our own bodies to escape the crap, or paralysis, in our minds, I guess I'll keep trying to analyze things.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby NessaZee » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:05 pm

Elliot wrote:Appreciate your input, NessaZee!



2.... Right. But if I have nightmares I don't remember, it does not do any good, now does it? From what I understand, there is no guarantee that a nightmare will wake us up while it is happening, so we can remember it and go to work on dealing with the stuff.


...what if one didn't need to be awake to deal with suppressed emotions? Don't you sometimes feel really good in the morning? My thoughts are that we deal with our emotions on a sub-conscious level as well. in fact I think much of our 'conscious analyzing' actually impedes our ability to work through some things..
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Interesting! Could very well be. But I cannot say I have any mornings where I wake up feeling surprisingly good. And I have had 35 years since I moved out of my parents' house, so if the subconscious deals effectively with the "harsh toilet training" type of problems (such as my spending several years as a teenager not talking with my father at all, while living in the same house!), how much time is enough for that? That's why I now want to pursue conscious understanding.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ibdave » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:48 pm

Elliot, been walking/sleeping in your shoes for awhile now..3-4 yrs..
Truth, without this thread and the ability to read and HIDE, you fucker's SAVED ME..TRUTH.
as Elliot was at his lowest, I was too. Wife had to leave for the holidays (thanksgiving) to escape my madness. If I was going, she was smart to not be around.. Now stop with the she should have, could have shit.. 30+ yrs with her and she seen it all... So no soapbox please.
What she didn't know, I was listening to you fuckers with open mind. As Elliot typed, it was as though we were in the same room and so I let his wonderful words do my talking.. Thank You Elliot for stripping it all off and tell it as it was/is... Love you man... Firefox, Love you for you insight and book.... yup have the book, but I'm sacred of it. My wife has read more and nods her head a lot.. The rest of this FAMILY, I LOVE YOU ALL. Thanks.

My road to a better ibdave is improving everyday and been to the Doc for the 1st chat and head back for the Bi-polar work up during the end of the month I hope.

Ya think because were paying our COBRA each month, I'd get in faster...
so, I'll keep ya updated and again, thanks for truly SAVING MY LIFE....... 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby knowmad » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:08 pm

NessaZee wrote:...what if one didn't need to be awake to deal with suppressed emotions? Don't you sometimes feel really good in the morning? My thoughts are that we deal with our emotions on a sub-conscious level as well. In fact I think much of our 'conscious analyzing' actually impedes our ability to work through some things...


Well FWIW;
As a practicing Native American Sweat lodge member we know of one way that seems to answer this.
The Sweat lodge tradition allows us to renter the tight places and confines of our mind and spirit while being awake and lucid. While in the lodge we are praying and supporting each other in prayer. And it is HOT! Overbearing, and out pours the waters, in breaths the will. We are reduced to our bare utterances with each other.

On the Bio-Physical level we are causing a major stress on each other and flexing our chemical reserves. The salt levels in your body are exchanged and also taxed in a way that normal daily life can’t match.
Replacing unplanned nightmare/traumatic biological crash for a controlled decent. We all enter nearly the same; loaded down with chemical worries, imbalances and over loads of bits and pieces of emotions. We all level the same too; empty and clean, weak and at rest, and then we begin to rebuild, water, air, salts, and the small fire becomes our sacred center again.

Sorry to rant/preach but this thread and Sweat lodge have been very large positive forces in my Life lately and I thought I would share that here. Like IBDave this thread and those I feel accountable to here have made me feel restrained and anchored when Inside I believe that all is lost and I am adrift. I love each and every one of you here. aho!
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:33 pm

ibdave wrote:Elliot, been walking/sleeping in your shoes for awhile now..3-4 yrs..
Truth, without this thread and the ability to read and HIDE, you fucker's SAVED ME..TRUTH.
as Elliot was at his lowest, I was too. Wife had to leave for the holidays (thanksgiving) to escape my madness. If I was going, she was smart to not be around.. Now stop with the she should have, could have shit.. 30+ yrs with her and she seen it all... So no soapbox please.
What she didn't know, I was listening to you fuckers with open mind. As Elliot typed, it was as though we were in the same room and so I let his wonderful words do my talking.. Thank You Elliot for stripping it all off and tell it as it was/is... Love you man... Firefox, Love you for you insight and book.... yup have the book, but I'm sacred of it. My wife has read more and nods her head a lot.. The rest of this FAMILY, I LOVE YOU ALL. Thanks.

My road to a better ibdave is improving everyday and been to the Doc for the 1st chat and head back for the Bi-polar work up during the end of the month I hope.

Ya think because were paying our COBRA each month, I'd get in faster...
so, I'll keep ya updated and again, thanks for truly SAVING MY LIFE....... 8) 8) 8)


(((((((((((IBD)))))))))))))))))))))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:51 pm

We're here, dave. Sh*t, I'm so ... *emotional incoherent* ... to hear that so many of my on-line buddies have this dark river in their lives. Part of me really doesn't want to get into it--my rescue was in some ways miraculous. I don't want to peel back onion layers...

I only took one sweat--at summercamp. It was interesting.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby AntiM » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:31 pm

I love you all so much. Thank you.
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Really, read the damn sticky posts.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ibdave » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:59 pm

AntiM wrote:I love you all so much. Thank you.


can't say it any better... 8) 8)

I looked down and saw this.....

Users browsing this forum: Elliot, unjonharley and 29 guests

jump in newbi's, only a few of us bite, and a few of you lurkers just might LIKE IT.........
Last edited by ibdave on Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby maryanimal » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:02 pm

AntiM wrote:I love you all so much. Thank you.



Ditto...well said M! *hugs*
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby TinkerMom » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:28 pm

maryanimal wrote:
AntiM wrote:I love you all so much. Thank you.



Ditto...well said M! *hugs*



Same here!!!

Now that the holidays are over I can come out from under my covers. I, too, don't do well
with it. But I have learned to deal with it in all kinds of ways. I totaly enjoy reading this thread.
And can see how we are all so much a like.

(((( hugs to everyone))))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby maryanimal » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:52 pm

*gives Tink a big hug*
Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:56 pm

TinkerMom wrote:And can see how we are all so much a like.

I may have mentioned this before, but.... At the top of page seven in my copy of Walden, Thoreau states: "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." He wrote that sometime between 1845 and 1854, but I have a hunch other thinkers preceded him along these lines -- probably by millennia.

It is disquieting to realize that after all these generations, humans have not yet resolved this ingrained hardship. But those of us who survive are bloody well going to keep trying.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:12 pm

how did I end up as author of this thread? it was Maryanarchist.
or is it just my machine?
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby maryanimal » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:57 pm

I noticed that too, but it doesn't matter how it started, it only matters that it's here for whoever needs it, or us...

(((((( squishy tight hugs for all of you)))))))
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby ygmir » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:04 pm

yeah, but credit, where credits due, MA...........you did a great service with this thread.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:16 pm

ygmir wrote:...or is it just my machine?

Modern (extremely imperfect) technology! :evil:
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby NessaZee » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:55 pm

((((Elliot))))
((((ibdave))))
((((knowmad))))

((((all of you!!))))

I am so grateful for all the energy given and shared in this thread. Knowing that Elliot and all of you are somewhere close keeps tinges of loneliness manageable. What a gift.

I've wanted to participate in a sweat for a while now. hm. time to get on that. :)
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby NessaZee » Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:58 pm

maryanimal wrote:I noticed that too, but it doesn't matter how it started, it only matters that it's here for whoever needs it, or us...

(((((( squishy tight hugs for all of you)))))))


OOoOoOooOoo! I LOVE squishy tight hugs!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:16 pm

NessaZee wrote: Knowing that ... all of you are somewhere close keeps tinges of loneliness manageable.

One good thing about the interweb! And then we know that we will all get together for real at least that one week a year, not to be missed. :D
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:31 pm

You missed last year and look what happened! :roll:
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby maryanimal » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:28 pm

But we will all meet and celebrate each other. I met you Figjam, and a gentleman you were.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:38 pm

FIGJAM wrote:You missed last year and look what happened! :roll:

That's no joke! :? :lol:
Although it was definitely my mental troubles that caused me to miss last year in the first place -- my inability to earn a living and pay for the trip. Then in September I started going further downhill -- at least partly because I had missed the highlight of the year. A vicious circle.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:44 pm

To elevate Elliot's spirits...
Image
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby Elliot » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:57 pm

That contraption reminds me of a sci-fi novel where two planets were so close together they shared the same atmosphere. So the people traveled from one to the other by hot air balloon, flipping the thing over at the zero gravity midway point.
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Re: Suicidal Tendencies

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:52 pm

Elliot wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:You missed last year and look what happened! :roll:

That's no joke! :? :lol:
Although it was definitely my mental troubles that caused me to miss last year in the first place -- my inability to earn a living and pay for the trip. Then in September I started going further downhill -- at least partly because I had missed the highlight of the year. A vicious circle.



It's a perscription that only needs to be refilled once a year, Damn it!!!

Consult your HMO!

Thurow was full of shit!!!!!!

If your despirit, be fucking loud about it!!!!!!!!!!!

The pursuit of happiness keeps me destracted from desperasion! :wink:
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