Cell tower in Gerlach? WTF?

All things outside of Burning Man.

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:21 pm

I think that the residents of Gerlach see Black Rock City as a big jamming device. It's been reported on a nearby thread that the cell phone tower was built for the year-round residents, not burners, and is capable of carrying the amount of traffic that locals create year-round. When the burn comes to town, it's almost impossible for burners or locals to get through.

So there's your jamming device. Happy?
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Re: My Experience Was Enhanced by Cell Coverage

Postby Snow » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:21 pm

Kiro wrote: People staring at their cellphones in isolation was what I thought we were escaping out there..
that and drunks, drugs, frat boys, annoying people, police, RULES, cafes, others' loud music, children, bad drivers, crowds, yahoos, chairs and of course elitism....

:idea: just don't worry about how/why others are doing there and do your thing and enjoy YOUR burn. Don't tell me how to burn. :idea:
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Postby knowmad » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:37 pm

jkisha wrote:Freedom of Communication is a Global human Right. No Electronic Priest needed for Supplication.


So does this mean you are for or against jamming?

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For it or against it It Is going to happen. I'd neither cry about it happening, nor would I be naive enough to boo-hoo it's impact. If I approve of Jamming is moot. Human Rights imply the Responsibility to Struggle against Oppression. Basically boils down to this.. If you think your freedom includes communicating about what I communicate about to others unbeknown to me; Fuck you. A Very Loud Fuck You! many dB's in the FM,
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Postby Kiro » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:40 pm

I wasn't expecting a lack of drunks, drugs, frat boys, etc .. but was surprised to see how quickly the spectators and frat boys had visibly changed the vibe by the weekend. We were well aware that was going to happen, it's openly talked about that they're not really into it in the same way, and although they're perfectly entitled to stand back and disengage from the experience, we should encourage them to participate.

For the exact same reason, I don't think narcissistic Twitter updates and Foursquare nonsense is the kind of activity that should be encouraged. That's all. I'm not jamming anything and I'm not fucking with anyone's Burn.
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Postby Snow » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:43 pm

hmmm you mean some people might have different expectations than you, of what the burn is :o

See but the thing is, you ARE telling people how they should or should not burn. who cares how much someone checks facebook, does that really hurt your burn in any way?
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Postby Kiro » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:55 pm

Snow wrote:who cares how much someone checks facebook, does that really hurt your burn in any way?


Seeing people with their cellphones out was as jarring for me as seeing police cars zooming across the playa, but like you said, not everyone goes for the same reasons, I just bought into the isolation aspect of the event more than them, perhaps.

In the Burning Man stories I enjoyed most, there was always that moment where you crossed the threshold and you were away from the default world. For some people it was quite emotional to not be able to call their family again until they returned, or check on bills, or whatever - but I loved that aspect of it and felt it would only add to the excitement of being there. Maybe I'm wrong, but hey, it's just another stupid opinion on this brown forum. <3
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:56 pm

Kiro wrote:I wasn't expecting a lack of drunks, drugs, frat boys, etc .. but was surprised to see how quickly the spectators and frat boys had visibly changed the vibe by the weekend. We were well aware that was going to happen, it's openly talked about that they're not really into it in the same way, and although they're perfectly entitled to stand back and disengage from the experience, we should encourage them to participate.

For the exact same reason, I don't think narcissistic Twitter updates and Foursquare nonsense is the kind of activity that should be encouraged. That's all. I'm not jamming anything and I'm not fucking with anyone's Burn.


I guess you could make the argument that everyone that doesn't build a piece of art or belong to a theme camp that is offering free booze, dance space, food, etc. is not fully participating in the event. Just spectators enjoying everyone else's efforts. What's the difference? What do you give back to the event? And what would there to be to enjoy out there if it weren't for the theme camps and the art work?

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Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:56 pm

sort of interesting, that, BRC is (ideally) a "no rules zone", and, so many love that.
And, many of the same folks, don't want someone else, to use their phone.
So, want to impose this rule, even if "De Facto" by jamming.

They want to "burn" their way, but, want to tell others what's ok, or not.

How about not having certain types of music, since it tends to (along with MDMA or whatever) make people only concentrate on it, and dancing.......and not "interacting" with others while so obsessed?

"hey, don't eat meat near me, I don't like it"

Hell, the people, who would spend the entire event, with a phone screwed to their ears, are probably the same ones who don't interact, anyway.........it'd be mostly SP's, Fb's, etc...........

But, there are also some very involved, giving, participating Burners, that, might want to make one call.........or once per day.....or whatever.

So foogin' what.

If you jam cell phones, IMHO, it'd be ok to jam sound systems (if that's possible), because they play music you don't like.

So,
I'd say, either write a "no cell phone" rule, publish and enforce it, or,
STFU, Burn your own way and let others do the same.

Or, call the Whaaambulance, cause, you've overdosed on whine............
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:59 pm

Go Ygmir!

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Postby burner von braun » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:00 pm

I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participitory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.
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Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:04 pm

burner von braun wrote:I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participitory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.


How is that any different, than all the cameras there now, and, posting when you get home?
Other than "real time", I can't see the difference.
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Postby knowmad » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:19 pm

burner von braun wrote:I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participatory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.


That is Why We Jam.
I ride public bus, the policy reads please limit your call's length, and volume.
Well not all people do. 5min later and I'm still hearing about your yeast infection, or how much _______ Sucks. I Flip my Switch and resume trying to enjoy my earphones and the view. and your reception dies. NMFP.

We have a right to an autonomous zone and we can and do defend it. We will not be asking permission for shit, nor will we be taking it.

ygmir wrote:How is that any different, than all the cameras there now, and, posting when you get home?
Other than "real time", I can't see the difference.

a bit harder to enforce protection against exploitation. but my basic strategy is to follow the media guidelines. And explain it to newbs so they understand why some of this is so special because a camera can't catch it all.

Ygmir, you are right(ish) there is however a slight and different difference between the two. while you upload to your P.C. and post to the web you are given opportunity to reflect on the pictures content, context, and social impact, opportunity to make a good choice about choosing. With a Phone to net type posting perhaps what fails is reflection. Deciding is not the Same a choosing. The Real time factor for some, is a really important factor for some, for others it should be.
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:23 pm

knowmad wrote:
burner von braun wrote:I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participatory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.


That is Why We Jam.
I ride public bus, the policy reads please limit your call's length, and volume.
Well not all people do. 5min later and I'm still hearing about your yeast infection, or how much _______ Sucks. I Flip my Switch and resume trying to enjoy my earphones and the view. and your reception dies. NMFP.

We have a right to an autonomous zone and we can and do defend it. We will not be asking permission for shit, nor will we be taking it.


Since when do two wrongs make a right? Frankly your actions are despicable, the person using the phone is simply rude.

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Postby Oso » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:26 pm

Anyone interested in what Larry says about it?

Well.... it's something to the effect of: The use of cell phones will be controlled by the culture of Burning Man. People don't shit in the middle of the road, they don't have sex in the middle of the road, and what they do in the privacy of their tent or rv is up to them
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Postby Kiro » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:27 pm

jkisha wrote:I guess you could make the argument that everyone that doesn't build a piece of art or belong to a theme camp that is offering free booze, dance space, food, etc. is not fully participating in the event. Just spectators enjoying everyone else's efforts. What's the difference? What do you give back to the event? And what would there to be to enjoy out there if it weren't for the theme camps and the art work?


Well I'm not making any of those points, so .. errrm... thanks for the straw man? =/
Enjoying the gifts other people have provided is obviously very different from staring at your cell phone and engaging in nothing.

As far as what I give back to the event, I don't know what that has to do with anything but I made 111 hematite necklaces with pendant jewelery from 200 year old pocket watch parts, designed the Tip Sheet for 2010 and helped out at our friend's bar, the 19th Hole. Does this validate me somehow? I hope not, I shouldn't have to say this just because I have a different opinion.
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Postby Oso » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:28 pm

I thought that was pretty cool
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Postby ygmir » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:32 pm

knowmad wrote:
burner von braun wrote:I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participatory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.


That is Why We Jam.
I ride public bus, the policy reads please limit your call's length, and volume.
Well not all people do. 5min later and I'm still hearing about your yeast infection, or how much _______ Sucks. I Flip my Switch and resume trying to enjoy my earphones and the view. and your reception dies. NMFP.

We have a right to an autonomous zone and we can and do defend it. We will not be asking permission for shit, nor will we be taking it.


and, therein lies the "nested loop"...........

So, it would seem, as with humanity:
"He who has the biggest guns (most money, meanest, power, intellect, "luck", etc) makes the rules.

Where do you draw, said line? is it subjective, unto your perception?
How long is "too long" (conversation wise.......pervert), What if, you cut them off, just before they got to say "goodbye"? Would you feel bad?

I totally understand what you say.
My issue is with an ambiguous rule "limit calls length and volume", it's to vague.

And, I even follow, that, you decide to jam.
I would, though, submit, in doing so, you open yourself up to further escalation.
I know, that, since you do it "secretly", no one will know.........but, if found out, would you be willing to accept someone smashing said device?


so many, are willing, to tell others what to do or how to live.
And, I think, ambiguity, adds to the problem.

"no cell phone use" is a reasonable rule on a bus, IMHO.
Then, at least, someone knows not to ride it, if they want to use their phone, or, if they use their phone, accepts the consequences.

*have I had to much coffee today?*
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Postby Boijoy » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:45 pm

I don't think jamming calls is kewell at all. What if someone were talking with their child or having some kind of medical emergency?
Just not kewell.. live and let live man.
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Postby knowmad » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:48 pm

jkisha wrote:
knowmad wrote:
burner von braun wrote:I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participatory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.


That is Why We Jam.
I ride public bus, the policy reads please limit your call's length, and volume.
Well not all people do. 5min later and I'm still hearing about your yeast infection, or how much _______ Sucks. I Flip my Switch and resume trying to enjoy my earphones and the view. and your reception dies. NMFP.

We have a right to an autonomous zone and we can and do defend it. We will not be asking permission for shit, nor will we be taking it.


Since when do two wrongs make a right? Frankly your actions are despicable, the person using the phone is simply rude.

JK


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Read the last 2 lines of my post Einstein.
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Postby burner von braun » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:49 pm

Perhaps the mindset, when I used my camera, to me it was somehow a more deliberate act, and I always asked first. I am thinking that some cell phone camera users would tend to be less inclined. Heck, I don't know, I guess I'm expressing my gut instinct on that one ygmir.
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Postby Eric » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:53 pm

ygmir wrote:So,
I'd say, either write a "no cell phone" rule, publish and enforce it, or,
STFU, Burn your own way and let others do the same.

Or, call the Whaaambulance, cause, you've overdosed on whine............


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Postby knowmad » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:57 pm

Boijoy wrote:I don't think jamming calls is kewell at all. What if someone were talking with their child or having some kind of medical emergency?
Just not kewell.. live and let live man.


911 uses a different RF band. Not A Problem.
And if they were Talking with their child like they are possessions or idiots. Then I'll flip the switch and brag about it.
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:33 pm

knowmad wrote:
jkisha wrote:
knowmad wrote:
burner von braun wrote:I would also question how much the use of cell phone cameras sending out surreptitious images will affect the nature of the burn. Certainly I'm not wanting to tell anyone how to burn, but I can see how this could have a core impact on the interactive/participatory focus that seems to me to be at the heart of Burning Man.


That is Why We Jam.
I ride public bus, the policy reads please limit your call's length, and volume.
Well not all people do. 5min later and I'm still hearing about your yeast infection, or how much _______ Sucks. I Flip my Switch and resume trying to enjoy my earphones and the view. and your reception dies. NMFP.

We have a right to an autonomous zone and we can and do defend it. We will not be asking permission for shit, nor will we be taking it.


Since when do two wrongs make a right? Frankly your actions are despicable, the person using the phone is simply rude.

JK


"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." -- Albert Einstein





Read the last 2 lines of my post Einstein.


I just have one question:

Where's the

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