Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

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Postby ygmir » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:41 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:that's part of what I dislike about politicians..........

the implication you make, that, his "issues" will be overlooked, because, the reps would overlook the same in their people........

When will they hold people to the standards the rest of us are held to?
regardless of "what they did"?

I'd have great respect for a party that would throw their own out for cheating.....
and say they are for doing what's right, instead of, what they can get away with.......


I think my main point is that I don't consider 'mistakes' on a tax return cheating. (I know, I know...but nobody's perfect! :))

JK


I agree.

my point is that they hold others to standards they don't hold themselves, or their "pals" to.........
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Postby Elderberry » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:45 am

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:that's part of what I dislike about politicians..........

the implication you make, that, his "issues" will be overlooked, because, the reps would overlook the same in their people........

When will they hold people to the standards the rest of us are held to?
regardless of "what they did"?

I'd have great respect for a party that would throw their own out for cheating.....
and say they are for doing what's right, instead of, what they can get away with.......


I think my main point is that I don't consider 'mistakes' on a tax return cheating. (I know, I know...but nobody's perfect! :))

JK


I agree.

my point is that they hold others to standards they don't hold themselves, or their "pals" to.........


You're right, but I think that's basic human nature. Look at the things we overlook in our children.

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Postby ygmir » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:51 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:that's part of what I dislike about politicians..........

the implication you make, that, his "issues" will be overlooked, because, the reps would overlook the same in their people........

When will they hold people to the standards the rest of us are held to?
regardless of "what they did"?

I'd have great respect for a party that would throw their own out for cheating.....
and say they are for doing what's right, instead of, what they can get away with.......


I think my main point is that I don't consider 'mistakes' on a tax return cheating. (I know, I know...but nobody's perfect! :))

JK


I agree.

my point is that they hold others to standards they don't hold themselves, or their "pals" to.........


You're right, but I think that's basic human nature. Look at the things we overlook in our children.

JK


yeah, although, I can see a pretty easy line drawn regarding what we accept or rationalize in our own children, as opposed to the, IMHO, "piece of crap, politician sitting next to me, that, happens to, for now at least, want to further my agenda" and, "that I'd not be friends with, or even like, in real life, and probably would be in prison if not for being in politics".........

But, I guess, my cynicism and mistrust of politicians, may be showing through.......
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Postby Elderberry » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:07 am

ygmir wrote:yeah, although, I can see a pretty easy line drawn regarding what we accept or rationalize in our own children, as opposed to the, IMHO, "piece of crap, politician sitting next to me, that, happens to, for now at least, want to further my agenda" and, "that I'd not be friends with, or even like, in real life, and probably would be in prison if not for being in politics".........

But, I guess, my cynicism and mistrust of politicians, may be showing through.......


Unfortunately, politicians have been their own worst enemy when it comes to cultivating that impression. Most recently the name Blagojevich comes to mind.

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Postby DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:38 pm

Pentagon brass chafes at Obama's Iraq pullout plan


By Inter Press Service

Tuesday, February 03, 2009

Gareth Porter


http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp ... e_id=99076

Inter Press Service

WASHINGTON: CENTCOM commander General David Petraeus, supported by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to pullout all US combat troops from Iraq within 18 months at an Oval Office meeting on January 21, sources have said.

But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.

Obama's decision to override Petraeus' recommendation has not ended the conflict between the president and senior military officers over troop withdrawal, however. There are indications that Petraeus and his allies in the military and the Pentagon, including General Ray Odierno, now the top commander in Iraq, have already begun to try to pressure Obama to change his withdrawal policy.

A network of senior military officers is also reported to be preparing to support Petraeus and Odierno by mobilizing public opinion against Obama's decision.

Petraeus was visibly unhappy when he left the Oval Office, according to one of the sources. A White House staffer present at the meeting was quoted by the source as saying: "Petraeus made the mistake of thinking he was still dealing with George Bush instead of with Barack Obama."

Petraeus, Gates and Odierno had hoped to sell Obama on a plan that they formulated in the final months of the Bush administration that aimed at getting around a key provision of the US-Iraqi withdrawal agreement by re-categorizing large numbers of combat troops as support troops. That subterfuge was formulated by the United States last November while ostensibly allowing Obama to deliver on his campaign promise.

Gates and Mullen had discussed the relabeling scheme with Obama as part of the Petraeus-Odierno plan for withdrawal they had presented to him in mid-December, according to a December 18 New York Times story.

Obama decided against making any public reference to his order to the military to draft a detailed 16-month combat-troop withdrawal policy, apparently so that he can announce his decision only after consulting with his field commanders and the Pentagon.

The first clear indication of the intention of Petraeus, Odierno and their allies to try to get Obama to amend his decision came on January 29 when the New York Times published an interview with Odierno, ostensibly based on the premise that Obama had indicated that he was "open to alternatives."

The Times reported that Odierno had "developed a plan that would move slower than Mr. Obama's campaign timetable" and had suggested in an interview "it might take the rest of the year to determine exactly when United States forces could be drawn down significantly."

The opening argument by the Petraeus-Odierno faction against Obama's withdrawal policy was revealed the evening of the January 21 meeting when retired army General Jack Keane, one of the authors of the Bush troop-surge policy and a close political ally and mentor of Petraeus, appeared on the "Lehrer News Hour" to comment on Obama's pledge on Iraq combat troop withdrawal.

Keane, who had certainly been briefed by Petraeus on the outcome of the Oval Office meeting, argued that implementing such a withdrawal of combat troops would "increase the risk rather dramatically over the 16 months."

He asserted that it would jeopardize the "stable political situation in Iraq" and called that risk "not acceptable."

The assertion that Obama's withdrawal policy threatens the gains allegedly won by the Bush troop surge and Petraeus' strategy in Iraq will apparently be the theme of the campaign that military opponents are now planning.

Keane, the army vice chief of staff from 1999-03, has ties to a network of active and retired four-star army generals, and since Obama's January 21 order on the 16-month withdrawal plan, some of the retired four-star generals in that network have begun discussing a campaign to blame Obama's troop withdrawal from Iraq for the ultimate collapse of the political "stability" that they expect to follow the US withdrawal, according to a military source familiar with the network's plans.

The source says the network, which includes senior active-duty officers in the Pentagon, will begin making the argument to journalists covering the Pentagon that Obama's withdrawal policy risks an eventual collapse in Iraq. That would raise the political cost to Obama of sticking to his withdrawal policy.

If Obama does not change the policy, according to the source, they hope to have planted the seeds of a future political narrative blaming his withdrawal policy for the "collapse" they expect in an Iraq without US troops.

That line seems likely to appeal to reporters covering the Iraq troop-withdrawal issue. Ever since Obama's inauguration, media coverage of the issue has treated Obama's 16-month withdrawal proposal as a concession to anti-war sentiment which will have to be adjusted to the "realities" as defined by the advice to Obama from Gates, Petraeus and Odierno.

Ever since he began working on the troop surge, Keane has been the central figure manipulating policy in order to keep as many US troops in Iraq as possible. It was Keane who got Vice President Dick Cheney to push for Petraeus as top commander in Iraq in late 2006 when the existing commander, General George W. Casey, did not support the troop surge.

It was Keane who protected Petraeus' interests in ensuring the maximum number of troops in Iraq against the efforts by other military leaders to accelerate troop withdrawal in 2007 and 2008. As Bob Woodward reported in "The War Within," Keane persuaded Bush to override the concerns of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about the stress of prolonged US occupation of Iraq on the US Army and Marine Corps as well as its impact on the worsening situation in Afghanistan.

Bush agreed in September 2007 to guarantee that Petraeus would have as many troops as he needed for as long as wanted, according to Woodward's account.

Keane had also prevailed on Gates in April 2008 to make Petraeus the new commander of CENTCOM. Keane argued that keeping Petraeus in the field was the best insurance against a Democratic administration reversing the Bush policy toward Iraq.

Keane had operated on the assumption that a Democratic president would probably not take the political risk of rejecting Petraeus' recommendation on the pace of troop withdrawal from Iraq. Woodward quotes Keane as telling Gates: "Let's assume we have a Democratic administration and they want to pull this thing out quickly, and now they have to deal with General Petraeus and General Odierno. There will be a price to be paid to override them."

Obama told Petraeus in Baghdad last July that if elected, he would regard the overall health of the US Army and Marine Corps and the situation in Afghanistan as more important than Petraeus' obvious interest in maximizing US troop strength in Iraq, according to Time magazine's Joe Klein.

But judging from Petraeus' shock at Obama's January 21 decision, he had not taken Obama's previous rejection of his arguments seriously. That miscalculation suggests that Petraeus had begun to accept Keane's assertion that a newly elected Democratic president would not dare to override his policy recommendation on troops in Iraq.
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Postby DVD Burner » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:45 pm

4th man pleads guilty to Election Day attacks targeting blacks


http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/02/ele ... t.assault/


From Mythili Rao
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NEW YORK (CNN) -- A fourth Staten Island man pleaded guilty Monday to charges stemming from three assaults targeting African-Americans in the hours after Barack Obama was declared the winner in the November presidential election, authorities said.

Ralph Nicoletti, 18, was the last defendant to enter a plea. Michael Contreras, 18, Brian Carranza, 21, and Bryan Garaventa, 18, pleaded guilty in federal court in January to charges of conspiring to interfere with voting rights.

According to the indictment, the four "knowingly and intentionally" conspired to intimidate African-Americans for exercising their right to vote. Contreras, Carranza and Garaventa could be sentenced to 10 years in prison, while as part of his plea, "Nicoletti has agreed to a sentence of 12 years, subject to the approval of the court," the U.S. Department of Justice said in a news release.

Attorneys for the men declined to comment.

Prosecutors said in a court filing that the defendants were at a "makeshift outdoor clubhouse" in the Rosebank section of Staten Island on November 4 when they learned of Obama's victory. At that point, prosecutors said, Nicoletti drove Contreras, Carranza and Garaventa to the predominantly African-American Park Hill neighborhood in Staten Island.

Their purpose, prosecutors said, was to assault African-Americans because of Obama's win.

Their first victim, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office, was Ali Kamara, 17, whom they beat with a metal pipe and a collapsible police baton. Kamara escaped after suffering a concussion and injuries to his legs.

"The first swing that swung -- it hit my head. It cut my head," Kamara told CNN affiliate WABC. "I got staples on my head now." He escaped by hiding in a neighbor's back yard until the attackers moved on.


Continuing to the Port Richmond section of Staten Island, also predominantly African-American, the group allegedly assaulted an unidentified African-American man, who was pushed to the ground, the Justice Department said.

The group's final assault, authorities said, targeted Ronald Forte, a man they mistakenly believed to be African-American who was walking along Blackford Avenue in the Port Richmond neighborhood. Forte, who is white, was wearing a hoodie that prevented the teenagers from identifying his race.

According to the indictment, the four teens decided to assault Forte with the police baton as they drove by, but at the last moment Nicoletti swerved the vehicle directly into Forte instead. Forte was thrown onto the hood of the car, shattering the front windshield and suffering traumatic head injuries.

The court filing also says that several weeks ago, Nicoletti and three others attacked Contreras, accusing him of cooperating with authorities. There was no immediate indication if separate charges were filed as a result of that incident.

Contreras, Carranza and Garaventa have been released on bail, but the judge ordered they remain under supervision, a representative of the U.S. District Attorney's Office told CNN, and Nicoletti remains in jail.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:26 am

Ex-Detroit mayor released after 99-day jail stay


By COREY WILLIAMS – 2 hours ago

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD9641LE00

DETROIT (AP) — Kwame Kilpatrick regained his freedom early Tuesday morning, emerging from jail after a 99-day sentence and stepping back onto the streets of the city he once ruled as mayor.

The 38-year-old Kilpatrick, about 25 pounds lighter than when he entered jail at the end of October, left the downtown Detroit facility wearing a dark suit just after 12:30 a.m.

On the sidewalk, Kilpatrick stood for a long moment amid bright television camera lights, a crush of awaiting reporters and swirling snowflakes, smiling occasionally to those in the crowd who called his name and shouted: "We love you, Kwame! Detroit loves you, baby!"

Flanked by a number of men, several dressed in fedoras and long coats, Kilpatrick then was rushed to a waiting blue Chevrolet Suburban. The Democrat waved from behind tinted windows as he was whisked away as part of a multi-vehicle caravan.

Kilpatrick made no statements to the media during his release, upon the orders of new defense attorney Willie E. Gary.

"He's not bitter. He said he learned a lot," Gary said during an impromptu sidewalk news conference. "He said this has been an experience he'll never forget, and he thinks because of it he'll be a better person."

It's been more than a year since a text-messaging sex scandal started the long process that ended in Kilpatrick's arrest, plea, jailing and release. Now, the man who quickly rose from a state representative to mayor of a city of 900,000 people simply is looking for work.

Kilpatrick was expected to meet with state probation officials before heading to a job interview Wednesday with an unnamed company at an undisclosed location in Texas. His wife, Carlita, and three young sons, already have left Michigan.

A judge has ordered that he return by Feb. 9.

"The job prospect is very, very, very favorable," Gary told reporters. "We want to make sure he can get, and land, the job. That's his first thing. He wants a job. That's what he is concerned about now. He wants to get with his family, get with his kids so he can start his life again."

The next five years, though, will be spent on probation and paying off the bulk of $1 million in restitution to the city. He also has had his law license revoked.

If Kilpatrick lands the job in Texas, he must first get permission to transfer his probation from Michigan to that state.

Kilpatrick was into the middle of his second term as mayor when sexually explicit text messages with his then-Chief of Staff Christine Beatty were published by the Detroit Free Press.

The messages from Beatty's city-issued pager also contradicted testimony that she and the married mayor gave during a 2007 whistle-blowers' trial when they denied having a romantic relationship. The messages also indicated they lied about their roles in the firing of a police official.

The cash-strapped city, now facing a deficit believed to be more than $200 million, eventually settled the civil suit with three former officers for $8.4 million.

Kilpatrick and Beatty were charged last March with perjury, misconduct and obstruction of justice.

Before his trial on those charges was to begin in September, Kilpatrick pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice and no contest to assault for allegedly shoving a detective who was trying to serve a subpoena in the text-message case.

He stepped down as mayor on Sept. 18. Beatty, who resigned last February, was sentenced early last month to 120 days in jail after pleading guilty to obstruction of justice.
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Postby Elderberry » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:07 am

Seems like Tax Scandals are to Democrats what Sex Scandals are to Republicans.

Nancy Killefer has just withdrew her name for nomination as Chief Performance Officer. I don't understand how this one was not caught in the vetting process--she actually had an IRS lien on her house which would have been a public record and also on her credit report. (Small amount, under $1000--regarding not paying tax on a housekeeper I believe)

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Postby ygmir » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 am

jkisha wrote:Seems like Tax Scandals are to Democrats what Sex Scandals are to Republicans.

Nancy Killefer has just withdrew her name for nomination as Chief Performance Officer. I don't understand how this one was not caught in the vetting process--she actually had an IRS lien on her house which would have been a public record and also on her credit report. (Small amount, under $1000--regarding not paying tax on a housekeeper I believe)

JK

isn't that the truth........

I feel, if the politicians didn't feel they're above the law, and, that they can keep stuff hidden, it'd not bite them..........and, how they cream their "opposition" for transgressions, when, they are as guilty, just of a different issue...........

and, since so many are lawyers...........or elitists, and, either way, feel "entitled" ..........

dang, gotta switch the cynical program off..............
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Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:23 am

And don't forget to pay your taxes!
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Postby joel the ornery » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:58 am

daschle withdraws!
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Postby dr.placebo » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:29 pm

Actually, it's good that people who think that they are above paying taxes should not be serving the public. The vetting process seems a bit creaky, though, to let them get this far.
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Postby Bin Noddin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:13 pm

Well, fuck me for dutifully paying taxes all these years.
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Postby Elderberry » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:29 pm

It's interesting to hear the conversation on Hardball--all the republican commentators, including Pat Buchanan, are saying that all of those people that have recused themselves would have easily been approved in the republican administration as the offenses weren't that serious.

The said that the problem was that Obama set the bar too high for the qualifications for his administration and now it is biting him in the ass because those people were well qualified to to the job, yet did not stand up to the criteria he campaigned on and now the REPUBLICANS are the ones making the big deal out of that.

Interesting perspective--especially coming from the Republican pundits.

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Postby dr.placebo » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:18 pm

I don't think that Obama has set the bar too high. I think that we have for too long accepted a bar that is too low, especially so in the Bush administration. Can you imagine having a Republican say this?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2009/02/03/sot.ac.obama.daschle.cnn

The notion that you can have honest or competent public servants, but not both, is completely bogus. I would claim that our financial clusterfuck is due to greed overwhelming any possible competence.
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Postby ygmir » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:26 pm

it is interesting how, as JK quotes, the high bar is biting the prez.

But, I agree (wow) with the good doctor, that, the bar is not to high, it's been to low for to long.........not just the most recent admin, I think for a long, long time........arguable who's the worst, IMHO..........
and, also agree with out problems being due to greed, and, would add that a lot of people are to lazy, or dumb, to do their own calculations to see if they can afford something...........
no one told them they had to buy the house they couldn't afford........no matter what some slick, POS loan officer "says", a cognizant person should figure if they can afford something or not.........and, plan for adversity..........

to much "pollyanna-ism" out there, as regards(ed), the economy.......

IMHO.
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Postby DVD Burner » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:30 pm

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Postby Elderberry » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:58 pm

I too agree. :)

Additionally, did you see what Obama said when he was asked in an interview about all of this?

Basically, he said he fucked up!

That, in itself, is refreshing. This guy just sounds so real.

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Postby ygmir » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:02 pm

did he mean he screwed up by asking for a cabinet officer with scruples, and morals?............or honesty, at least?

that'd be scary if that's what he meant.

If he means, he screwed up asking Daschle, because he's a turd........I'll agree with you.
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Postby dr.placebo » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:04 pm

In my opinion the culture of greed spans the economic classes. It's the worst social disease we have at this time.

I don't equate greed with ambition. It's fine to be ambitious, even if it is ambition for material wealth. Greed is what happens when one lets ambition for wealth overcome scruples. Unchecked, greed leads to a host of bad consequences, such as excessive risk and outright theft, often with violence.

When you consider the frequent case, prior to the collapse, of a mortgage broker making a loan to a person who did not have the capacity to repay, then you have to conclude that both parties were greedy.

Even further, the mortgage backed securities were sold by institutions that claimed safety for these instruments, and took a fee, but the buyers shared some blame because they wanted a return without looking at the goods being sold.

In many cases the middlemen got away with it. It was people in positions of trust who made the unsafe loans and then sold those loans. It was people in positions of trust who bought them, pocketed a fee, and resold them. It was people in positions of trust who ran banks into the ground and still got their bonuses.

While it may be greed that led people to buy houses they could not afford, it was also that they were misled and lied to. A lot of people got burned just because they wanted a home. They were told that they could afford it, and they lost their homes because they believed the lie. I'm not counting the speculators, who just made it worse. They should take the loss. I'm talking about people who were cheated.

There is also the growing class of people who bought homes that they could afford as long as they were employed. I'm in that class as well, since without income I can't keep my house, although for the moment I'm safe. When the greed shitstorm takes away jobs it takes away homes, too. And yet this is the American Dream for a lot of people: family, job, house. It's been a social promise, an implied contract. And that promise is not being kept.

You can say that it's foolish to believe such a thing. But the same argument can be used against any social shared value that is betrayed. I'm not especially cynical about our culture, but I am angry. I want it to mean more than a formula. I don't have to have perfection, but I want at least a little effort that is not directed towards acquisition.

OK, enough ranting for now. One interesting outcome of the mortgage securities scandal, though, is that if you are threatened with foreclosure you should get a lawyer and insist on seeing the loan paperwork! In many cases the paper trail is so twisted that they can't prove that they hold the loan. It's worth trying, anyway.

http://www.consumerwarningnetwork.com/2008/12/12/produce-the-note-rallying-cry-to-fight-foreclosure/
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Postby littleflower » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:36 pm

i agree with most of what you say, dr. P ... but .... but to add a few things...

a lot of the problem was caused by speculators who were buying houses and selling them soon afterwards, driving prices up. there was a lot of this going on, and a lot of people who did not have a lot of money bought into the idea. home prices increased by something like 16%/year, i believe. easy money. but this made it so people just wanting to buy into the american dream felt that they should buy, or lose the chance before prices went too high. it got to the point where nobody knew what real estate was worth ... and we still don't know.

as for people being told that they could afford something they couldn't ... i know a mortgage broker who tried very hard to make a loan to a friend of her daughter's, and finally told her no. countrywide gave her a loan, and she was in foreclosure within a year. this person was told she could not afford the house she wanted, but went looking for a loan anyhow.... i wonder how many people were similarly rejected by various mortgage companies, only to find one that did allow the loan?

and then there are the people who used their houses as ATMs, taking out home equity loans as the prices skyrocketed.

there is plenty of blame for the little guy. not all of us are irresponsible, but not all mortgage and real estate people are, either. countrywide is one of the worst offenders, yet they are a company that i constantly see funding the arts.

And yet this is the American Dream for a lot of people: family, job, house. It's been a social promise, an implied contract. And that promise is not being kept.


implied contract? promised by whom? under what conditions? is this something that a government can ... or should ... provide? or is it something that people and society create for themselves, with government creating an environment that allows it to happen?
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Postby dr.placebo » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:23 am

I basically agree with littleflower. Speculators made the whole mess much worse, and we got into a panic buying bubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania). Otherwise bright people got caught up in it. Intelligence is not a uniformly distributed quantity, even within a single person.

I'm sure there are cases where honest brokers turned down unqualified buyers. And there were more than enough dishonest ones to take up the slack. There were dishonest buyers as well.

Too many people took the bubble for granted, pulling all they could out of their houses in the expectation that rising prices would cover it all up. Some of them were greedy and foolish, others probably had uncovered health care costs, or college for the kids, or something else worthy. I have no idea where the balance lies. I do think that one reason people got suckered in was that real median income was decreasing during recent years, so some people got squeezed.

The social promise I referred to is not a political promise, nor is it some socialist guarantee, although government plays an important role when it keeps the game honest. The social promise is the opportunity to make a good life in an honest fashion -- the pursuit of happiness. It is something we owe to ourselves and our children and our grandchildren.
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Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:32 am

ok, I'm looking for Rod Serling........

it seems, the good Doc, LittleFlower, and, I, all agree, at least in principle on this........

hooray!!!

I'd add, Doc, to your last sentence, one thing:

the gov. certainly should allow for the "pursuit of happiness", but, no guarantee of catching it..........
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:35 am

Damn. Nothing here to get me riled up this morning! :)

Anybody here Obama's speech this morning? Any companies getting bailout money from the gov't. will have to cap their compensation to $500,000.00. I wonder if they are going to make this retroactive and get last year's bonuses back.

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Postby littleflower » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:47 pm

jkisha wrote:Damn. Nothing here to get me riled up this morning! :)


don't worry, JK, we'll come up with something soon! :)
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:11 pm

littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Damn. Nothing here to get me riled up this morning! :)


don't worry, JK, we'll come up with something soon! :)


:lol: No doubt. :lol:

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Postby DVD Burner » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:38 pm

jkisha wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Damn. Nothing here to get me riled up this morning! :)


don't worry, JK, we'll come up with something soon! :)


:lol: No doubt. :lol:

JK


You mean like something with substance and facts? I doubt it.
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Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:00 pm

jkisha wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Damn. Nothing here to get me riled up this morning! :)


don't worry, JK, we'll come up with something soon! :)


:lol: No doubt. :lol:

JK


How was your calm and restful day, JK?
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Postby DVD Burner » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:50 pm

Cheney Predicts ‘Probability’ of Attack

By MICHAEL FALCONE
Published: February 4, 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/us/05cheney.html

WASHINGTON — In an interview two weeks after leaving office, former Vice President Dick Cheney predicted a “high probabilityâ€
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Postby Elderberry » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:17 am

ygmir wrote:
jkisha wrote:
littleflower wrote:
jkisha wrote:Damn. Nothing here to get me riled up this morning! :)


don't worry, JK, we'll come up with something soon! :)


:lol: No doubt. :lol:

JK


How was your calm and restful day, JK?


Well, neither calm nor restful, but a good day none the less. Thanks for asking. And you?

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