Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

All things outside of Burning Man.

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:18 pm

jkisha wrote:
geekster wrote:I happened across this youtube today of Chris Matthews of MSNBC raving about how great Glen Beck is and how he listens to Beck on his commute to work and stuff. I thought it was quite hilarious. I suppose that might have been after Matthews guest-hosted for Limbaugh.

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: This is Dean in Beulah, Iowa. Am I pronouncing that right?

CALLER: Yes, you are.

RUSH: Thank you, sir. Welcome to the program.

CALLER: Thank you. Mega dittos, Rush. Hey, I was just wondering, I've been a fan of the show for a long time, and has Chris Matthews ever guest hosted your show?

RUSH: Yes, he has.

CALLER: And why did you do that.

RUSH: Well, you know, there was a time that... Help me out on this, Snerdley. It was the mid-nineties, right?

CALLER: Yeah, at least that long ago. It's been a long time, way before he ever came out as being more liberal. You know, for a time there he was almost conservative.

RUSH: Well, in part. But when we put him on as a guest host we knew that he wasn't full-fledged conservative, but we did it just as a change of pace.

CALLER: Okay.

RUSH: But back then, he and I had a good relationship. I was going on his show, and he was calling in to my show, and we had a good relationship back then, but I stopped being invited to go on his show. Maybe it's I stopped accepting invitations. I don't know which. But clearly now, that network now is the house organ for the Democrat National Committee.

CALLER: Yeah. I think I remember that show he was on, and it was pretty good, if I remember right, but (laughs).

RUSH: I didn't hear it. I never listen when I'm not here, obviously. If I could listen, I would be here to do the show. So I didn't hear it. I'm trying to remember. My memory is, we had some people complain.

CALLER: (laughter) Well, I can believe it. It just kind of astonished me the one time, and as the years progress, I said, "Do I remember right? Did Chris Matthews actually host?"

RUSH: We're going back 13 or 14 years here. We have to be.

CALLER: Yeah.


I'm not sure exactly what the point of your post actually is.

FOX news is now an indisputable propaganda arm of the Republican party, and that is an fact.

The only purpose of that video is to try and attribute the same onus to MSNBC, which is still a news reporting station. (I am not saying that the majority of their reporters are not democrats, but they still manage to do actually do fair and balanced reporting, and they tell the truth. Not the truth as they see it.)

Keith Olbermann, one of their highest paid comentators, was just suspended indefinitely because he gave political contributions to three democratic candidates.

On FOX "news" they actually help Republican candidates raise money during "news" reports. Now that's "fair and balanced"

Mathews, obviously, at one time seemed to like Beck. At one time, I used to enjoy listening to Limbaugh. But over time, Beck and Limbaugh have become divisive and almost manacle in rants rants and out-right lies. If there were such a thing as malpractice for their profession, both Beck and Limbaugh would be serving live sentences in a federal penitentiary some where.

The saddest part of this whole story is that people are actually gullible enough to believe the tripe these people are preaching. Too bad that some people approach politics exactly like they approach religion--they take everything FOX says on faith, truth and facts be damned.

Oh, and I don't listen to Limbaugh anymore.

JK


I would propose, that, any and all the MSM have political agendas, and leanings.........I take them, as just that.
I see FOX balancing NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR (PBS), etc.
I don't beleive much of what I see on any of them.
But, I don't see one any more flagrantly one sided than the others.........
I think some info can be gleaned, by taking all those sources, and, finding the middle ground in them.

But, to say one is "more" biased than another? well, that's to subjective, IMHO.

Bias, is bias, to me. And, they all have it.
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Postby can't sit still » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:45 pm

Well, North Korea is preparing for war.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 45018.html
South Korea says that the death from NK will be repaid a thousand fold. http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articl ... 4&pg1=2501
Is this the start for WW III ?
U.S. -- N.K. is going to do war games in the area. N.K. has their knickers in a twist over that;
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20101127/tw ... 10a1a.html
The U.S. has arranged false-flag incidents whenever it suited their need for war of aggression,,, a grab for resources or a need for a diversion from domestic shit.
http://www.rense.com/general92/had.htm
N.K has warned about "unintended consequences".
Is the U.S. itching to start a wider war to cut down China to a more manageable size?
There is NO way out of our fiscal problems. War has often been used as an excuse to justify domestic impoverishment. Is that on the menu? Is totalitarianism just around the corner? Are unintended consequences just what the PTB are looking for?
I do not trust the bastards.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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Postby can't sit still » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:49 pm

Well, it appears that China is worried about unintended consequences;
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-us ... tm_source=
They told us not to send in a Carrier.
"China's Foreign Ministry said in an online posting that naval exercises risks starting a war:"
He didn't waste a lot of time beating around the bush. Pretty clear statement for a politician.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:32 am

ygmir wrote:
I would propose, that, any and all the MSM have political agendas, and leanings.........I take them, as just that.
I see FOX balancing NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR (PBS), etc.
I don't beleive much of what I see on any of them.
But, I don't see one any more flagrantly one sided than the others.........
I think some info can be gleaned, by taking all those sources, and, finding the middle ground in them.

But, to say one is "more" biased than another? well, that's to subjective, IMHO.

Bias, is bias, to me. And, they all have it.


Getting people to "believe" that what the "main stream" (read truthful reporting) was actually not to be trusted, was the biggest coup in controlling the uneducated masses (read Palin supporters, tea baggers, et. al.) that today's right wing has ever managed to accomplish. Followed by then creating a "fake news" organization that is nothing but propaganda with just barely enough truth to give the 'appearance' of credibility was then the pièce de résistance.

Truth is truth.
Bias is bias.
Lies are lies.

News can be bias and still be truthful, but news can not be lies or fabrications or egregious distortions and be considered either biased nor truthful, nor news, and that is the difference between FOX and almost ALL the rest.

Best most recent example is FOX "news" picking up a "news" article from "The Onion" about Obama sending out a despondent, rambling, 75,000 word email to all of his supporters. Which was immediately latched onto by all of their readers--taken as gospel. Yup, sounds like a credible "news" organization to me.

If you really do read/listen to the US "Main stream" media and supplement it with a good dose of al Jazeera English, BBC, and other international sources; it doesn't take much to see who is reporting "news" (biased as it might be) and who is out and out propagandizing and telling lies.

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Postby ygmir » Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:56 am

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
I would propose, that, any and all the MSM have political agendas, and leanings.........I take them, as just that.
I see FOX balancing NBC, CBS, ABC, NPR (PBS), etc.
I don't beleive much of what I see on any of them.
But, I don't see one any more flagrantly one sided than the others.........
I think some info can be gleaned, by taking all those sources, and, finding the middle ground in them.

But, to say one is "more" biased than another? well, that's to subjective, IMHO.

Bias, is bias, to me. And, they all have it.


Getting people to "believe" that what the "main stream" (read truthful reporting) was actually not to be trusted, was the biggest coup in controlling the uneducated masses (read Palin supporters, tea baggers, et. al.) that today's right wing has ever managed to accomplish. Followed by then creating a "fake news" organization that is nothing but propaganda with just barely enough truth to give the 'appearance' of credibility was then the pièce de résistance.

Truth is truth.
Bias is bias.
Lies are lies.

News can be bias and still be truthful, but news can not be lies or fabrications or egregious distortions and be considered either biased nor truthful, nor news, and that is the difference between FOX and almost ALL the rest.

Best most recent example is FOX "news" picking up a "news" article from "The Onion" about Obama sending out a despondent, rambling, 75,000 word email to all of his supporters. Which was immediately latched onto by all of their readers--taken as gospel. Yup, sounds like a credible "news" organization to me.

If you really do read/listen to the US "Main stream" media and supplement it with a good dose of al Jazeera English, BBC, and other international sources; it doesn't take much to see who is reporting "news" (biased as it might be) and who is out and out propagandizing and telling lies.

JK


what I get from this, is, you admit all have bias (and, IMHO, therefore distort or slant facts to match said bias), but, some are "worse" than "others"?
In that sense, they're all provocateurs, just some are really bad guys?


I can see, as a partisan, how you would see it that way, and, accept your view as such.
Of course, you see what you agree with, as "right and truthful", and, that any bias contained therein is just "reality/truth" and very neutral or centrist, since, that's where you think you are.

We tend to like to think, we are of the majority opinion, no matter where we stand on an issue.

And, as such, feel what we believe to be true, true.

I see moderate folks, on both sides, feeling they are really "in the middle, and with the majority" of people.
But, the reality, to me, is that they are still on one side or the other, and, therefore, not "in the middle"

Pretty tough, IMHO, to call any human news agency "neutral".......inherently, we all have bias and agendas.
And, any perception, is only our own, individual, based on our experiences. And, not necessarily true or accurate (except to us, as individuals).

I like to see the wide spectrum of reporting available, on both sides.
Not only is it usually ridiculous, and entertaining, but, it gives a person both extremes of view, with which to extrapolate, our own "truth".

*crawls back under bridge*
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Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:33 pm

ygmir wrote:
Pretty tough, IMHO, to call any human news agency "neutral".......inherently, we all have bias and agendas.
And, any perception, is only our own, individual, based on our experiences. And, not necessarily true or accurate (except to us, as individuals).



Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they are not entitled to their own facts.

I have no problem with anyone that reports the "FACTS" and then offers up their opinion. I do have a big problem with anyone calling their OPINION a fact and then purporting to offer up an opinion on their opinion.

If a person's "experiences" cause them to not be able to discern between a FACT and an OPINION or worse, is not a valid reason to present as a defense. (IMHO ;) )

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Postby FIGJAM » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:38 pm

"The truth shall make you fret."
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

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Postby ygmir » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:07 pm

jkisha wrote:
ygmir wrote:
Pretty tough, IMHO, to call any human news agency "neutral".......inherently, we all have bias and agendas.
And, any perception, is only our own, individual, based on our experiences. And, not necessarily true or accurate (except to us, as individuals).



Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they are not entitled to their own facts.

I have no problem with anyone that reports the "FACTS" and then offers up their opinion. I do have a big problem with anyone calling their OPINION a fact and then purporting to offer up an opinion on their opinion.

If a person's "experiences" cause them to not be able to discern between a FACT and an OPINION or worse, is not a valid reason to present as a defense. (IMHO ;) )

JK


good points, well said........as usual..........
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Postby can't sit still » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:10 pm

Let's not forget that sins of omission are just as bad as lies. Facts can be conveniently forgotten,,, selectively.
I don't post things because I believe that they are the absolute truth. I post them because I believe that they should be considered.
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Postby ygmir » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:30 pm

can't sit still wrote:Let's not forget that sins of omission are just as bad as lies. Facts can be conveniently forgotten,,, selectively.


so true.

It's why we can't trust 'em..........you gotta read so many accounts, get the little things forgotten ( or omitted purposely), put 'em all together, and, come close to the "real" story.

I think, really and truly,

Balok is running the show.......from the Phesarious.........(sp?)

tranya anyone?
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Postby can't sit still » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:34 pm

ygmir, when is the BIG day? You're soon to pass the 15,000 mark for posts. How does one celebrate this type of occasion? :?: :?:
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Postby ygmir » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:13 pm

crap..........I dunno.......I can't imagine anyone caring, except, those who wonder how I have time to post so much, and still make a living.
Or, those who accuse me of one line, or one word posts, just to increase my "count".
I've been accused of both
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Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:45 pm

ygmir wrote:crap..........I dunno.......I can't imagine anyone caring, except, those who wonder how I have time to post so much, and still make a living.
Or, those who accuse me of one line, or one word posts, just to increase my "count".
I've been accused of both


That's surprising; I have never found you to be a post whore. Even your one-word posts are usually insightful, entertaining, poignant and sometimes all three. And I am still in awe as to how you manage to find just the right photo or video for so many different topics.

WOW 15,000. That's something. CSS is right, we need to celebrate in some form or fashion.

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Postby can't sit still » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:13 pm

Well, this is the politics thread and I have some political speculation. Ike warned us about the military / industrial complex taking over control. The military has worked tirelessly to build an empire. They liked the power they built up in WW II and didn't want to lose it. So, in the best British Imperial manner, America built an empire.
The war dept was renamed the defense dept. The military couldn't find enough wars so, they had to concoct lots of them. Viet-Nam and Afghanistan made a lot of money from the military industry but, didn't prove a whole lot.
Year by year, it's getting more difficult to claim "defense". so, the war dept has to engage in provocation to justify all the spending. Apparently, we're provoking China to get the financial ball rolling for war material suppliers. Y'all know about the missile fired off the cost of Los Angeles. Funny, how there just happened to be a news helicopter near by.

I've received a few mails on the subject. Here's one that I find particularly interesting. I'll post the salient excerpt and then the body of the mail and then, my interpretation.

"If the American people fully realized the severity of the threat they might demand restoring our military to face the growing threat from China and Russia , as opposed to the massive domestic spending that we have witnessed over the past two years. "

ANOTHER GOVERNMENT COVER-UP!!!
WILL IT EVER END???
Sliding silently under the mud, muck and fog of national politics, is a current event that makes Bill Clinton's excursion into the world of elderly sex look tame in comparison. This time the nation's national security is truly threatened in my opinion, and it involves not only a weak President with limited problem-solving ability, but leadership at the highest levels in the Pentagon as well. The American people would do well to demand a full investigation by an unbiased group, and let the chips fall where they may. I am referring to the "missile shot" taken of California coast recently, and the lame response by NORAD, the Pentagon and the White House itself.

First, in hope of adding some creditability to my assessment of what really happened just off the coast of Los Angeles let me convey a bit of my background which can be checked easily by going to Google and typing in my name. An Air Force biography will appear.

During the late eighties I was assigned to NORAD, as a Command Director initially and later as the assistant Director of Operations for NORAD. The NORAD operation was located inside the Cheyenne Mountain complex just outside Colorado Springs , Colorado . Twenty four hours a day a team of approximately 150 highly trained individuals, lead by a Brigadier General, monitored one of the most sophticated computer systems in the world. This system was fed data from many different sensors that were able to detect missile shots from any point on the globe. All this data was taken into consideration when making the "assessment" as whether or not North America and/or Canada were threatened by such a launch. If the launch was assessed as a true threat, the President was contacted immediately by NORAD through a military individual always close to the President who carried what we called, "the football", a black brief case with release codes for our nuclear forces. I know the system well, as for near three years I led one of those teams.

In addition, for over 25 years, I flew US Air Force fighters to include the F-106, F-4, F-15, F-16, and commanded an F-15 Squadron and an F-16 Wing. The sole purpose of the F-106 assignment was to maintain an ability to become airborne in minutes to intercept inbound bombers posing a threat to the US mainland. Untold hours were spent studying and being tested on visually identifying an air-to-air threat to include its type and threat potential. I understand the difference in an aircraft contrail and a missile launch contrail.

In my opinion there is absolutely no doubt that what was captured on video off the coast of California was a missile launch, was clearly observed by NORAD, assessed by a four-star General in minutes, and passed to the President immediately. That is the way the system works, and heads fall if there is a failure. This is one of the most important tenets of National Defense and its sole purpose of protecting the American people. Even the smallest failure in this system gets intense scrutiny at the highest level.

Now, the question that still must be answered is why NORAD's muted respANOTHER GOVERNMENT COVER-UP!!!
WILL IT EVER END???
Sliding silently under the mud, muck and fog of national politics, is a current event that makes Bill Clinton's excursion into the world of elderly sex look tame in comparison. This time the nation's national security is truly threatened in my opinion, and it involves not only a weak President with limited problem-solving ability, but leadership at the highest levels in the Pentagon as well. The American people would do well to demand a full investigation by an unbiased group, and let the chips fall where they may. I am referring to the "missile shot" taken of California coast recently, and the lame response by NORAD, the Pentagon and the White House itself.

First, in hope of adding some creditability to my assessment of what really happened just off the coast of Los Angeles let me convey a bit of my background which can be checked easily by going to Google and typing in my name. An Air Force biography will appear.

During the late eighties I was assigned to NORAD, as a Command Director initially and later as the assistant Director of Operations for NORAD. The NORAD operation was located inside the Cheyenne Mountain complex just outside Colorado Springs , Colorado . Twenty four hours a day a team of approximately 150 highly trained individuals, lead by a Brigadier General, monitored one of the most sophticated computer systems in the world. This system was fed data from many different sensors that were able to detect missile shots from any point on the globe. All this data was taken into consideration when making the "assessment" as whether or not North America and/or Canada were threatened by such a launch. If the launch was assessed as a true threat, the President was contacted immediately by NORAD through a military individual always close to the President who carried what we called, "the football", a black brief case with release codes for our nuclear forces. I know the system well, as for near three years I led one of those teams.

In addition, for over 25 years, I flew US Air Force fighters to include the F-106, F-4, F-15, F-16, and commanded an F-15 Squadron and an F-16 Wing. The sole purpose of the F-106 assignment was to maintain an ability to become airborne in minutes to intercept inbound bombers posing a threat to the US mainland. Untold hours were spent studying and being tested on visually identifying an air-to-air threat to include its type and threat potential. I understand the difference in an aircraft contrail and a missile launch contrail.

In my opinion there is absolutely no doubt that what was captured on video off the coast of California was a missile launch, was clearly observed by NORAD, assessed by a four-star General in minutes, and passed to the President immediately. That is the way the system works, and heads fall if there is a failure. This is one of the most important tenets of National Defense and its sole purpose of protecting the American people. Even the smallest failure in this system gets intense scrutiny at the highest level.

Now, the question that still must be answered is why NORAD's muted response was simply that North America was not threatened, and later our government approved the lame excuse that the picture recorded was simply an aircraft leaving a contrail. This decision was made far above the four-star level, and because the system in place demands it, was made by the President himself.

There are many possible answers to the question why. Normally, when a situation of this nature occurs the decision makers in Washington feel it would create panic among the mere mortals who go to work every day. To avoid shocking the population the truth is shaded, or sometimes just kept quite in hope it will just go away. I would say to our government officials who disregard the intelligence of the American people, be careful. The people are awakening, and their trust in our government is fading. This level of decision making will hasten that process.

In my opinion we must question the timing of this shot across our bow. The President was abroad being diplomatic, which means trying to placate China which is becoming overly concerned with our handling a totally out of control deficient in spending. They do not want our debt to them be paid in cheapened US dollars, and it appears that our current plan is to do just that. China is devoting a major portion of their GDP to defense spending, and what better time to show the US that they can slip a missile equipped submarine through the South Pacific undetected right up to one of our largest cities, than right now. And, the Chinese have the guts to do it.

Important in my opinion is that once again the leader of this nation chose to disguise the truth and keep the American people in the dark on an issue that constitutes a major threat to the entire population of the United States of America. This is no longer a threat to only our military thousands of miles from the homeland. This is a show of force sending a signal that downtown USA is now capably of being hit by an undetected submarine and at any time. It may very well be the beginning of the real power struggle between the United States and China . If so, I predict the next phase will be China 's demand for the US to cease support of Taiwan , and so it goes.

President Obama is getting in over his head once again on this one. Hiding the severity of issues we face with China to include this possible signal of strength is a terrible mistake. It is happening at a time that our Secretary of Defense, under the guidance of the President, is literally gutting our military forces. We have seen it already when the F-22 buy was cut from over 600 aircraft to 187, and research and development for follow on systems severely reduced. This is but one of hundreds of examples of military reductions. I fear that this could be another reason for this cover-up. If the American people fully realized the severity of the threat they might demand restoring our military to face the growing threat from China and Russia , as opposed to the massive domestic spending that we have witnessed over the past two years.

So, where does this leave us? Again, the people must decide and place pressure on the government to insure that our National Security remains intact. Military strength prevents war. Military weakness invites not only war, but also a lack of deterrence for intervention and bullying on many fronts.

If there was ever a time for the people to look closely at the national leadership and demand honesty and integrity, it is now. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. At issue is electing those who have the ability to make proper decisions for our country, and will do so with no regard to their own personal gain. It is time to elect a President and a Congress who will put country above self, and defend this great nation against all enemies, foreign or domestic, and above all be honest with the people who honored them with election to high office.

Jim Cash

Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret. onse was simply that North America was not threatened, and later our government approved the lame excuse that the picture recorded was simply an aircraft leaving a contrail. This decision was made far above the four-star level, and because the system in place demands it, was made by the President himself.

There are many possible answers to the question why. Normally, when a situation of this nature occurs the decision makers in Washington feel it would create panic among the mere mortals who go to work every day. To avoid shocking the population the truth is shaded, or sometimes just kept quite in hope it will just go away. I would say to our government officials who disregard the intelligence of the American people, be careful. The people are awakening, and their trust in our government is fading. This level of decision making will hasten that process.

In my opinion we must question the timing of this shot across our bow. The President was abroad being diplomatic, which means trying to placate China which is becoming overly concerned with our handling a totally out of control deficient in spending. They do not want our debt to them be paid in cheapened US dollars, and it appears that our current plan is to do just that. China is devoting a major portion of their GDP to defense spending, and what better time to show the US that they can slip a missile equipped submarine through the South Pacific undetected right up to one of our largest cities, than right now. And, the Chinese have the guts to do it.

Important in my opinion is that once again the leader of this nation chose to disguise the truth and keep the American people in the dark on an issue that constitutes a major threat to the entire population of the United States of America. This is no longer a threat to only our military thousands of miles from the homeland. This is a show of force sending a signal that downtown USA is now capably of being hit by an undetected submarine and at any time. It may very well be the beginning of the real power struggle between the United States and China . If so, I predict the next phase will be China 's demand for the US to cease support of Taiwan , and so it goes.

President Obama is getting in over his head once again on this one. Hiding the severity of issues we face with China to include this possible signal of strength is a terrible mistake. It is happening at a time that our Secretary of Defense, under the guidance of the President, is literally gutting our military forces. We have seen it already when the F-22 buy was cut from over 600 aircraft to 187, and research and development for follow on systems severely reduced. This is but one of hundreds of examples of military reductions. I fear that this could be another reason for this cover-up. If the American people fully realized the severity of the threat they might demand restoring our military to face the growing threat from China and Russia , as opposed to the massive domestic spending that we have witnessed over the past two years.

So, where does this leave us? Again, the people must decide and place pressure on the government to insure that our National Security remains intact. Military strength prevents war. Military weakness invites not only war, but also a lack of deterrence for intervention and bullying on many fronts.

If there was ever a time for the people to look closely at the national leadership and demand honesty and integrity, it is now. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. At issue is electing those who have the ability to make proper decisions for our country, and will do so with no regard to their own personal gain. It is time to elect a President and a Congress who will put country above self, and defend this great nation against all enemies, foreign or domestic, and above all be honest with the people who honored them with election to high office.

Jim Cash

Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.

He then lists his career bona fides.

Here's my ideas on the post.


I don't need to explain the logic from the military / industrial / banking complex.
He mentions the cuts to the "raptor" program. They cost $ 140 million each and we all know that they couldn't possibly detect a submarine.
It seems VERY difficult to believe that this sub traveled to L.A. and was not detected. It is also very hard to believe that a Song-class sub surfaced next to the Kittyhawk undetected.
I'll tell you where this is leading.

We currently have satellites that map ore deposits and map minute differences in gravity and electromagnetic fields. The average metal detector uses an oval shaped coil to find anything metallic.
The coil produces a field. Anything conductive that enters the field distorts the field and sets off an alarm.

The satellites are far more sensitive. While it's possible that the L.A. sub shadowed a surface vessel to reach it's destination, the song-class sub couldn't have done this.
The picket ships around the Kittyhawk would pick up the huge metallic mass of the sub MANY miles away. Seawater would not block detection.

It appears that the L.A. sub fired it's missile when the news helicopter was close enough to record it. They could easily detect and identify it while submerged.

If the salvage people can find old wooden ships with a minimum of metal using primitive metal detectors, you can bet that the military detectors can detect an enormous metal sub. The rubber coating on the song-class sub was invented by the Germans to prevent the bounce of sonar. It has no effect on metal detectors.

Both of these sub events appear to have been stage-managed to get maximum publicity without being TOO obvious. North Korea admits to firing first.

It appears that the military-hardware people are getting more sophisticated in their attempts to frighten people. Fear is perfect for pushing people to surrender freedoms and buy expensive protection.
OK, so we cut out domestic spending so that we can attempt to protect Taiwan,,, then Korea,,, then japan OR
we could just forget this empire bullshit. Let peace break out. WE will get a divedend, NOT the masters of war.
http://www.rense.com/general92/had.htm
Another interesting l.ink;
http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/11/r ... -8631.html
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Postby can't sit still » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:29 pm

From The Daily Reckoning;
"Yesterday, the Obama team proposed freezing federal salaries - that is, leaving them 50% to 100% higher than private sector wages - for the next two years.

"We are going to have to budge on some deeply held positions," said the decider.

His proposal would save...are you sitting down, dear reader...$2 billion by the end of 2011. Let's see, that would cut the deficit by approximately 3 tenths of one percent...BFD - that's shorthand for "so what."
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Postby cowboyangel » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:19 pm

Hi gang. I need to say fuck you to Erskine Bowles on as many threads As seems appropriate.

Erskine Bowles........sits on the board of Morgan Stanley....and you guessed it...no Tobin Tax (1% tax on stock trades or derivatives)

But we do have...

The plan calls for sweeping tax changes that would affect millions of Americans, including trimming or doing away with many popular tax breaks such as the home mortgage deduction. It would also make deep cuts in military spending, slash the federal work force, raise the retirement age for full Social Security benefits and make cuts in Medicare. It aims to reduce federal red ink by nearly $4 trillion within a decade.

Although prospects for the plan are unclear, the attention it has received has helped awaken the nation to the depth of the economic hole the country is in and the need for bold action to dig out, suggested Bowles, who was former President Bill Clinton's White House chief of staff. Simpson is a former Republican senator from Wyoming.

"The American people get it now. People want this to happen," Bowles said.


And a major excrement covered flying "fuck you" to you Mr. Bowles

I don't know many folks here in California that want your people hating spending cuts and tax hikes. Go fuck yourself you blind bureaucratic ruling class sociopath.
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:42 pm

cowboyangel wrote:Hi gang. I need to say fuck you to Erskine Bowles on as many threads As seems appropriate.

Erskine Bowles........sits on the board of Morgan Stanley....and you guessed it...no Tobin Tax (1% tax on stock trades or derivatives)

But we do have...

The plan calls for sweeping tax changes that would affect millions of Americans, including trimming or doing away with many popular tax breaks such as the home mortgage deduction. It would also make deep cuts in military spending, slash the federal work force, raise the retirement age for full Social Security benefits and make cuts in Medicare. It aims to reduce federal red ink by nearly $4 trillion within a decade.

Although prospects for the plan are unclear, the attention it has received has helped awaken the nation to the depth of the economic hole the country is in and the need for bold action to dig out, suggested Bowles, who was former President Bill Clinton's White House chief of staff. Simpson is a former Republican senator from Wyoming.

"The American people get it now. People want this to happen," Bowles said.


And a major excrement covered flying "fuck you" to you Mr. Bowles

I don't know many folks here in California that want your people hating spending cuts and tax hikes. Go fuck yourself you blind bureaucratic ruling class sociopath.


Did you actually READ the draft document?

Let's take Social Security: Some of the plan's Goals:
--Prevents the 22% across the board benefit cut projected to occur in 2037.
--Reduce elderly poverty by putting into place a new, effective special minimum benefit.
--Enable system to continue to provide for a secure retirement as the population grows older and Americans live longer.
--Reform Social Security for its own sake, not for deficit reduction.
--Add new protections for the most vulnerable:
--Add a new special minimum benefit to keep full-career minimum wage workers above the poverty threshold.
--Wage-index the minimum benefit to make sure it is effective both now and in the future.
--Provide a benefit boost to older retirees most at risk of outliving other retirement resources.

Yes, they are proposing the retirement age to 68 and then 69, but that won't take place until 40 and 60 years from now respectively; and there will be a hardship exemption for all those doing manual labor and are unable to work beyond 62.

Lots of people are making lots of noise, but everybody has to take a hit on fixing the budget. Do I like everything in the draft proposal? No. I think that the wealthiest need to bear the biggest burden, but the draft isn't as bad as people are making it out to be.

I just chose Social Security to comment on here, as that's the part that has been lied about and riling people up the most.

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Postby can't sit still » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:15 pm

jk, I didn't read the draft so I won't argue it. There is something else to keep in mind. GOV completely changed the way that it calculates the CPI. SS has consistently lost ground because benefits are WAY behind inflation.
The biggest part of the financial meltdown is being blamed on entitlements. This is BULLSHIT. Here's a vid that has the Chinese pulling out the rug because of our entitlements;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N8gJSMo ... r_embedded
The banks made huge loans to people who were not credit worthy. The loans collapsed and WE took responsibility for paying them back. Banks are making damn sure that nobody holding bank bonds will lose anything.
The bank losses that were put on our backs are far greater than the entitlements.
The banks aren't stupid. They knew that America had a shrinking wage base. They pushed loans on everybody. The banks made stupid moves. The banks should take the losses.
SS has $ 7.4 trillion in non-negotiable notes from treasury. GOV can pass all the measures that they want. NONE of them will be funded. It's ALL horseshit.
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Postby Elderberry » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:02 pm

can't sit still wrote:jk, I didn't read the draft so I won't argue it. There is something else to keep in mind. GOV completely changed the way that it calculates the CPI. SS has consistently lost ground because benefits are WAY behind inflation.
The biggest part of the financial meltdown is being blamed on entitlements. This is BULLSHIT. Here's a vid that has the Chinese pulling out the rug because of our entitlements;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N8gJSMo ... r_embedded
The banks made huge loans to people who were not credit worthy. The loans collapsed and WE took responsibility for paying them back. Banks are making damn sure that nobody holding bank bonds will lose anything.
The bank losses that were put on our backs are far greater than the entitlements.
The banks aren't stupid. They knew that America had a shrinking wage base. They pushed loans on everybody. The banks made stupid moves. The banks should take the losses.
SS has $ 7.4 trillion in non-negotiable notes from treasury. GOV can pass all the measures that they want. NONE of them will be funded. It's ALL horseshit.


I agree.

Those that caused the problems along with those that benefited the most from them should bear the full responsibility of taking their losses. Still doesn't solve the Social Security problem and the unnecessarily large military budget, unfunded wars, etc. Government should never have borrowed against SS account funds; but that's not the solvency problem, as I understand it.

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Postby can't sit still » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:34 pm

This came in mail;


And they can't replace the 2.5 Trillion from Social Security?

WASHINGTON – The Federal Reserve revealed details Wednesday of trillions of dollars in emergency aid it provided to U.S. and foreign banks during the financial crisis.
New documents show that the most loan and other aid for U.S. institutions over time went to Citigroup ($2.2 trillion), followed by Merrill Lynch ($2.1 trillion), Morgan Stanley ($2 trillion), Bear Stearns ($960 billion), Bank of America ($887 billion), Goldman Sachs ($615 billion), JPMorgan Chase ($178 billion) and Wells Fargo ($154 billion).
Merrill Lynch was later acquired by Bank of America, while Bear Stearns collapsed and was sold to JPMorgan.
Foreign banks also benefited from the Fed's aid. They included Swiss bank UBS, which borrowed more than $165 billion, Deutsche Bank ($97 billion) and the Royal Bank of Scotland ($92 billion).
Many of the individual loans the banks took were worth billions and had short durations but were paid back and renewed many times.
Among the largest recipients were foreign central banks, such as the European Central Bank, Bank of England and the Bank of Japan. They borrowed huge amounts of dollars from the Fed to assist their own banks.
The documents are a reminder of how crippled the financial system had become during the crisis and how much it's recovered since. Banks earned $14 billion from July through September this year.
The Fed released the data in the form of more than 21,000 transactions. The disclosures are required under the financial overhaul law. The Fed's programs were credited with helping restore the health of individual banks and stabilize the financial system.
The documents disclosed details of more than $3.3 trillion in loans to financial institutions, companies and foreign central banks during the crisis. The figure comes from adding up the maximum amount of aid provided for each of the Fed's credit programs.
The Fed detailed more than $2 trillion it lent through eight programs from December 2007 to July this year to ease a credit crisis. It came at a time when the financial crisis had caused credit to virtually dry up, sidelining companies and municipalities in need of short-term cash. The credit clog worsened the deepest recession since the Great Depression.
"The system basically failed because banks stopped lending to each other," said Paul Miller, a banking analyst at FBR Capital Markets. "After Lehman failed ... the Fed essentially opened the floodgates and pushed as much liquidity into the system as possible. And it worked. It helped stabilize the system."
The emergency credit programs had never been used before and are now defunct. Most of the loans have been repaid, and none are overdue, Fed officials say.
The Fed also detailed the $1.25 trillion in mortgage securities it bought from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to help drive down mortgage rates, ease credit and provide some support to the crippled housing market.
In addition, the Fed disclosed details of "swap" arrangements with foreign central banks. These occurred when the Fed traded much-in-demand dollars for foreign currencies to try to ease credit. The foreign central banks, in turn, lent the dollars to banks in their countries that needed dollar funding. The Bank of Canada, the Bank of England, the European Central Bank, the Swiss National Bank and the Bank of Japan were involved in the exchanges.
One of the emergency lending programs the Fed created provided low-cost, short-term loans to banks. Another sought to ease credit problems in the "commercial paper" market, which many U.S. companies use to finance everything from salaries to supplies.
Another was designed to spark low-cost lending to consumers and small businesses. Investors used the Fed's loans to buy securities backed by auto loans, credit cards and other debt.
Big U.S. and foreign banks made repeated use of the programs. Bank of America, for instance, took out 14 loans worth $15 billion each under the Fed program that provided short-term loans. The loans were repaid after either one month or three months. The last was repaid by July 2009.
Barclays, a British bank, tapped the same facility 49 times. Its individual loans ranged from $300 million to $15 billion. Citigroup used the program 26 times.
The documents help illustrate the global scope of the crisis. The Federal Reserve provided credit lines to some of the largest central banks overseas: The European Central Bank took $8 trillion in temporary credit lines, while the Bank of England took $918 billion. That credit ensured that overseas markets wouldn't freeze for a lack of U.S. dollars, the global reserve currency.
"There's very much a sense from the data that the Federal Reserve was not just providing liquidity to U.S. banks but was creating stability for the entire world's financial system," said Linus Wilson, assistant professor of finance at the University of Louisiana, who has studied the financial crisis.
Large non-banking companies in the U.S. used the Fed's lending programs, too, the documents show. They did so to meet immediate payments such as payroll or payments to suppliers, because private financing had all but evaporated. General Electric borrowed more than $16 billion, Harley-Davidson Inc. borrowed $2.3 billion and a group of independent Caterpillar Inc. dealers borrowed $733 million.
Two other recipients were the California State Teachers Retirement System and the City of Bristol (Conn.) General City Retirement Fund.
But the emergency aid that was extended to banks and Wall Street rankled many ordinary Americans who weren't getting any help in their struggles with high unemployment, rising foreclosures and sagging home values. And many expressed anger toward banks and Wall Street for lax lending and for taking risky gambles that contributed to the crisis.
Much of the information the Fed is disclosing is similar to what would be required under a court case that a group of commercial banks is appealing to the Supreme Court
The Fed didn't take part in that appeal. What the court case could require — but the Fed isn't providing Wednesday — are the names of commercial banks that got low-cost emergency loans from the Fed's "discount window" during the crisis.
The Fed has long acted as a lender of last resort, offering commercial banks loans through its discount window when they couldn't obtain financing elsewhere. The Fed has kept secret the identities of such borrowers. It's expressed fear that naming such a bank could cause a run on it, defeating the purpose of the program.
The Fed didn't oppose releasing the information being disclosed Wednesday.
But the new financial overhaul law will require the Fed in late 2012 to provide information on any commercial banks that are drawing emergency loans from its discount window now. That doesn't include banks that drew loans from the discount window during the 2007-2009 financial crisis.
___
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Postby Neutrality » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:52 am

can't sit still wrote:Is this the start for WW III ?


Yes, and it will start on December 21, 2012. Why not?

can't sit still wrote:U.S. -- N.K. is going to do war games in the area.


I assume you mean S.K. War gaming is something that one does with one's allies.

can't sit still wrote:N.K. has their knickers in a twist over that;.


Given its history of invading its southern neighbor, I'm not surprised. But if North Korea's government is making a fuss about the fact of a training exercise, that speaks to an aggressive intent on their part. "How dare you not drop your guard!"

can't sit still wrote:The U.S. has arranged false-flag incidents whenever it suited their need for war of aggression.


Perhaps. But you're hardly making the case that this is what we're looking at, this time.
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Postby can't sit still » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:20 pm

I'm not trying to make a case. I'm trying to piss you off. It's more fun than making a case. :wink:
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Postby ygmir » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:20 am

so, not sure this is the correct thread, but:

imagine, what it would have been like, had John Edwards been elected?
his transgressions that have come to light, now Elizabeth?

dang, along with the probably totally stupid crap he'd have done, where would we be?

yikes!!!
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Postby can't sit still » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:16 am

ygmir, as a mental exercise, imagine where we would be had McCain been elected. Open door 1 or 2 or 3,,, and chose from snake 1 , 2 , 3 ,
By next summer, our current snake will have to make a move to destroy pensions. This will cement his snake status,,, regardless of whether or not it was inevitable.
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Postby TomServo » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:41 pm

anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
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Postby geekster » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:17 pm

Looks like Obama has finally brought in a consultant.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010 ... fing-room/

Maybe he has someone in his administration who can find their butt with at least one hand.

What what his title will be ... Czar czar?
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Postby geekster » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:58 pm

And so it begins. This makes seven so far that I am aware of:

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia_elections_ ... joins-gop/
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Postby can't sit still » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:07 pm

Yeah but, what does his consultant know?
The Clinton Balanced Budget Myth:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfa...

Clinton ran deficits throughout all 8 years of his term, and one can go to the US Treasury Department and looking through the history of the total outstanding debt throughout Clintons term. (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/...)

Every year Clinton was in office, the total national debt continued to climb.

How Clinton managed to claim a surplus was that while the general operating budgets ran deficits but Clinton borrowed from numerous off budget funds to make the on budget fund a surplus.

For example, in 2000, Clinton claimed a $230B surplus, but Clinton borrowed
$152.3B from Social Security
$30.9B from Civil Service Retirement Fund
$18.5B from Federal Supplementary Medical insurance Trust Fund
$15.0B from Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund
$9.0B from the Federal Unemployment Trust Fund
$8.2B from Military Retirement Fund
$3.8B from Transportation Trust Funds
$1.8B from Employee Life Insurance & Retirement fund
$7.0B from others

Total borrowed from off budget funds $246.5B, meaning that his $230B surplus is actually a $16.5B deficit.
($246.5B borrowed - $230B claimed surplus = $16.5B actual deficit).
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Postby verycooljdm » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:56 pm

can't sit still wrote:Well, North Korea is preparing for war.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 45018.html
South Korea says that the death from NK will be repaid a thousand fold. http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articl ... 4&pg1=2501
Is this the start for WW III ?
hid kit

U.S. -- N.K. is going to do war games in the area. N.K. has their knickers in a twist over that;
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20101127/tw ... 10a1a.html
The U.S. has arranged false-flag incidents whenever it suited their need for war of aggression,,, a grab for resources or a need for a diversion from domestic shit.
http://www.rense.com/general92/had.htm
N.K has warned about "unintended consequences".
Is the U.S. itching to start a wider war to cut down China to a more manageable size?
There is NO way out of our fiscal problems. War has often been used as an excuse to justify domestic impoverishment. Is that on the menu? Is totalitarianism just around the corner? Are unintended consequences just what the PTB are looking for?


I do not trust the bastards.


North Korea is a paper tiger, only know how to yell
OMG.....
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Postby can't sit still » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:33 pm

This is a speech on youtube by a Republican. Don't listen to it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMgyi57s ... r_embedded
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