Politics, Everyday, All day... morning, noon and night....II

All things outside of Burning Man.

Postby ygmir » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:17 pm

geekster wrote:I think Peggy Noonan in the WSJ finally managed to put her finger on what has been bothering me with this Congress and this President. There was this arrogant tone ringing in my ears but I couldn't find a specific example until today. Today she hit the nail square on the head when relating this story:

When Rep. Brian Baird went before his constituents in Clark County, Wash., on Aug. 18, he was met by this speech from a young man in the audience: "I heard you say that you are going to let us keep our health insurance. Well thank you! It's not your right to decide whether I keep my current plan or not, that's my decision." The constituent got cheers.


See, these arrogant bastards are going to "allow" me to keep what I have always had all along and make it seem like they are "giving" me something even if I have to pay more for it thanks to their legislation. So I am supposed to feel just dandy that my Congress is "allowing" me to "keep" what I already have. It is obvious that those arrogant pricks actually believe that anything I have is really theirs and I have things only because they "allow" me to.

And in the end it turns out that I probably *wont* be able to keep my plan. I am going to be forced to take a plan with less coverage at higher cost because of these idiots and if I don't, the IRS will take it out of my hide.

Thanks a lot, assholes!

What are you going to "let" me "keep" tomorrow? I have a feeling that it won't be as much of my salary as I keep today.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... on_LEADTop


thanks for posting this.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27369
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby geekster » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:28 am

A culture of corruption:

First of all there is this bit. Yeah, it's Fox News, but this is only the context. What is the real whopper in all of this is what comes later under the Obama administration. First the groundwork:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77zYUEHIHIo[/youtube]

Now fast forward to July 3, 2010 and President Obama's weekly radio address:

In fact, today, I’m announcing that the Department of Energy is awarding nearly $2 billion in conditional commitments to two solar companies.


Sounds awesome, right?

The second company is Abound Solar Manufacturing, which will manufacture advanced solar panels at two new plants, creating more than 2,000 construction jobs and 1,500 permanent jobs. .  .  .


Now who is Abound Solar?

[quote]Russell Kanjorski, the vice president for marketing at Abound Solar, was one of the principals in another energy company in northeast Pennsylvania, called Cornerstone Technologies LLC, which attracted $9 million in federal grants before it halted operations in 2003 and later filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. As reported by the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader, “Cornerstone reported $14,100 in assets compared with $1.34 million in debtâ€
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby geekster » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Remember how right after Obumbler used US taxpayer money to buy GM and Chrysler for his union pals, suddenly Toyota was evil and we had all those "sudden acceleration" incidents?

Turns out there was nothing wrong with the cars. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has done an investigation and cleared Toyota. Bet you won't hear a peep about it on your morning commute radio station:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 35744.html
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby gyre » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:50 pm

They have been "cleared" before with the same story.

Why are some dealers verifying locked accelerators with drivers out of the car?


With toyota's proprietary and secret computer system, how was reliability of it's data verified?
I would believe it might say the throttle was on full.
Why should we think that is accurate if the drive by wire is suspect?

I've seen the way toyota's cheaper cars are built.
I wouldn't trust their drive by wire before this was reported.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby geekster » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:03 pm

Because it would take several failures and these exact same failures have been documented with practically every other make of car. Someone THINKS they have the brake to the floor but are really pressing the accelerator. Maybe their foot slipped off the brake or maybe they missed or maybe they just went into a panic and hit the wrong pedal but in every case the brake was NOT being applied.

Every one of them claim they had the brake fully depressed. None of the computers checked to date show the brake being applied at all. All of them show the throttle fully applied. Also, the vast majority of these are with the elderly. The car does not know the age of the driver. Why would they tend to fail with the elderly?

Again, it would take THREE failures. It would require the computer to command a full throttle condition AND it would require a failure of the brake system and it would require a failure of the computer monitoring of the brake system.

Not likely. Now if you showed cars with a fully open throttle but the brake lights are on, yeah, you might have a point. But in every one of these cases, the brakes were never actually applied.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby gyre » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:28 pm

I'm suggesting a direct link between a computer thinking the throttle is applied and one that locks on.

I don't know what it takes failing with these drive by wire, and I doubt you do too.

If it's so clear, why was toyota scamming to cover things up?


On other brands, these pedal accidents almost always occurred with offset pedals (a long known risk factor) and inexperienced drivers.
With toyota dbw, we have police officers doing it for very long periods of time, not five seconds through the garage door, the typical kind of mistaken pedal issue.
Even more extraordinary if it's driver failure.

And like I said, there are more than one case with multiple witnesses.
Often toyota reported these as driver error.
The scandal made the news.

And as unlikely as these multiple failures sound, I know two people that have had them happen with simple mechanical drive systems.
In one case, the locked throttle directly caused the failure of the vacuum system on a barely adequate brake system, and caused steering difficulty.
A very wild ride until the owner managed to disable the car.
It was an extremely high torque car, which was part of the issue.

Perhaps there is a reason other companies only use dbw on high dollar cars with multiple failsafes?


Isn't this computer system the closed one that investigators were complaining a month ago they couldn't get adequate access too?
Now they've cleared it?

My thoroughly tested computer software hasn't crashed here in ...hours now.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby geekster » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:22 pm

"I don't know what it takes failing with these drive by wire, and I doubt you do too. "

Well, I used to work on cars for a while. Had my own shop until 1996.

The problem is not really with the accelerator. The problem is that every one of these people claim they had the brake applied. There is nothing to indicate that the brake was applied AT ALL. The computer does not show any brake signal, and the brakes don't show any overheating, etc.

It just isn't happening. I suppose you can dream up all sorts of "what if" stuff, but this is too consistent. It is nearly always old people, it is always the same problem, always the same result.

Now, the throttle can be controlled by the computer and it is possible that the throttle can be commanded to fully open in case of a malfunction but the BRAKES are not controlled by the computer (but the brake switch is monitored by the computer). The braking system is fundamentally hydraulic with either manifold vacuum or electric vacuum pump assist. Some of the more complex all wheel braking traction control systems are more complicated but the basic hydraulic system has priority.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby gyre » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:47 pm

The person I mentioned has burned out brakes four times.

It was always "pedal error" until he drove to the dealership and showed it to them in progress.
Not elderly.
Not stupid.
And proof.
Again.

And toyota got caught lying.
Again.

This was on the news.

And his brakes didn't fail, just didn't work adequately, until cooked.

Oh, all his "pedal error" damages were fixed w/o charge, repeatedly.

And didn't Steve Jobs report the same thing?


I don't know what's up, but I doubt pedal error covers it all.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby geekster » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:25 pm

Probably not, but in that case, the brakes were applied. I am talking about the cases where the car is barreling 100+ MPH and the person swears they had the brake mashed all the way and there isn't a speck of wear on the brakes or anything in the computer showing they were applied and the brake system works fine.

Yes, there are some systems where, for example, a vacuum leak can cause the engine to throttle up. In the first systems that GM and Ford produced, there was not a direct throttle position sensor, only a MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor that sensed manifold vacuum. So a vacuum leak would look just like an opened throttle and the system would dump more gas in. I have seen the original GM throttle body injection trucks idle at over 2000 RPM when they have a vacuum leak (like the PCV valve hose) and you have to hold the brake with both feet.

The point of my post is that the government is yet to find a single case that points to any other cause to date. I wasn't saying there aren't corner cases because there always are and a throttle CAN be commanded open. But the brake system can NOT be countermanded by the computer. It would take two different failures in two different, unrelated systems to cause the set of problems that people were claiming to have and it would take both problems to fix themselves before being looked at. I have yet to see a set of self-changing brake pads.

I don't argue that your friend didn't have a car that would throttle up. Many different cars can do that for different reasons. But the your friend's brakes worked. That isn't the problem that is being reported.

Besides, anyone who doesn't simply put the car in neutral or turn off the key ... well, no computer malfunction survives "neutral" and "key off".
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:04 am

The news reports I found say that no conclusion has been reached and no report released yet.

And my confidence in nhtsa and their reaction time and abilities is nil anyway.
They have yet to deal with the gm steering issues and trans shift/surge problems.

I'm going to talk to some people in sae though.

So, if nothing is really happening, is toyota that stupid, corrupt and self-destructive to destroy their reputation covering up ...nothing?


By the way, my friend's brakes failed, directly due to the other issue.
There was no mystery about what happened though.
Bad bad engineering.
I can check, but I think he ripped wires out to stop it.
He didn't have much time with a runaway car with no brakes and very high power.

The basic toyotas have such rudimentary brakes that I thought that what was happening was eventual brake failure due to overheating, not hydraulic failure.
And the worst cases are always with the ones with electronic shift by wire that also locked.

The guy that had multiple failures and showed up at the dealer, also reported difficulty getting into neutral, but that was how he stopped the car.

I am sure that many of these cases are made worse by panicking drivers.
I have been in a car when someone froze.
But they never thought they were on the brakes.
That's very different.
But that trip was seconds.

And I can't believe anyone can do that for a half hour or longer and check the pedals and their feet and still be mistaken.
That's toyota's story and it sounds just like the gm whitewash.

I had two accidents caused by the gm issues and they falsified all the reports and never fixed the problems.
The gm scandals are coming out of the woodwork again, but they got away with it.
Thank you nhtsa, paper tiger.

Even if most were false alarms, there are too many reliable reports already for comfort.

In ntsb investigations, pilot error is always considered an engineering issue, if it's repeatable.
That was the case with offset pedals and cars marketed to unskilled drivers.

So why is just as big a question.
It doesn't seem to happen to ford trucks or volvos.
Other than those vehicles having real brakes, why the difference?

The locking ignition seems to be a problem in these cases.

Last I heard, the guy with his car in the dealer for the 4th "permanent" fix, still wasn't getting it back.

Credit for one thing, gm wouldn't have even done a wall job on his car.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:07 am

geekster wrote:Besides, anyone who doesn't simply put the car in neutral or turn off the key ... well, no computer malfunction survives "neutral" and "key off".

Don't all newer cars lock the key when you're in gear?
Safety feature.

So you have to get into neutral first?
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:23 am

It occurs to me that when I get in a different car, the first thing I do is operate the pedals and shifter for a minute or so, or longer in some cases, before I even start the engine.
Maybe this is why people sometimes give me the keys to interesting things?
I don't think I've ever hit the wrong pedal, except during more advanced pedal use, trail braking etc.
And if I did, I'd do something else.

I do remember being uncomfortable with a wildly offset pedal set once.
An ultra wide brake pedal.

Oh, and the first toyota I drove had no brakes at all.
The early usa models just sucked.
No one told me, so that was a big surprise at the light.
When I got back they said, oh that car's brakes never worked and no one can fix them.
But the engine kept on running.
I think fear helped keep the mileage down on it.

The myth of the japanese car.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby geekster » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:01 am

gyre wrote:
geekster wrote:Besides, anyone who doesn't simply put the car in neutral or turn off the key ... well, no computer malfunction survives "neutral" and "key off".

Don't all newer cars lock the key when you're in gear?
Safety feature.

So you have to get into neutral first?


Yep. Just make sure you don't turn the key to "lock".

But anyway, the problem is not even as widespread as people were led to believe. Well, it BECAME more widespread after it was reported as people jumped on the litigation lotto bandwagon. There were suddenly lots of "me too!" folks out there.

Remember the guy who did it on purpose? He was flying down the freeway and a cop got in front of him and stopped him? That guy was caught attempting to scam the situation. But the cop car stopping him shows the point. A set of normally functioning brakes will not only stop ONE car at full throttle, they will stop TWO cars, one of which is at full throttle. The engine will eventually lug and die if you don't take it out of gear if you apply the brakes. Sure, it will ruin a set of pads and probably warp the rotors, but they WILL stop you.

The entire thing was suddenly "news" after the UAW owned Chrysler and GM. So far to date, not a single case of a runaway vehicle has been discovered without evidence that the throttle was pushed wide open by the driver and the brakes were not applied.

If you are in a situation where you believe you are pressing the brake but the engine is continuing to increase in RPM, remove your foot from the pedal and put it back on the brake. You either missed or slipped off the brake.

There was ONE documented case where the floor mat did hold down the accelerator pedal but the brakes functioned normally.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby geekster » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:02 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ[/youtube]
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby ygmir » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:15 am

*coffee dribbling down chin from laughing*

nice.........
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27369
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby ygmir » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:46 am

this "mantra" (for lack of a better term), kills me:

"It's not perfect, and, it has problems.........but at least we're doing SOMETHING, at least it's a start"..............

When, has the government, ever "undone" a law or rule....flawed, or not, once it's in place?
I'd even propose, they rarely fix 'em, let alone get rid of 'em.

How often, later, down the road, do the gov. officials point at some huge flaw, and, say something like:
we didn't anticipate this outcome
or,
it's no our fault, it's "theirs"

or,

"the people" just don't/can't understand how this works, or, how to think about it.......we'll tell them what it means, and, how to feel about it"......

of course, IMHO.......
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27369
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby geekster » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:58 pm

When, has the government, ever "undone" a law or rule....flawed, or not, once it's in place?


Exactly. They simply layer more regulations on top of the old one. Look at the current "finance reform". That is going to increase everyone's fees at their bank if they use a major bank (as some 90+% of Americans do) and/or result in branches being closed. Who is going to pay for this stuff? We are. You can NOT tax a business, you can not impose additional regulations, additional paperwork, additional anything, without increasing the cost of doing business and those costs are ALWAYS passed along either in higher fees, or more employees let go.

I believe eliminating Congressional pensions would be a good start. Actually eliminating pensions for ALL elected positions would be a good place to start.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:25 pm

More reports coming up with media coverage can mean false reports, but can just as easily mean reports toyota failed to forward get turned in too.

This is what gm did with my accidents.
I doubt nhtsa recorded my reports to them either.

Good brakes can stop a car (when cool) but I have seen some toy like brakes on some toyotas.

I actually recommended an FX-16 to a friend who loved it until his son rolled it.
Toyota scammed him and refused to replace it without adding huge extras and doubling the cost, so he ended up with the base model.
Unlike a european equivalent, it had nothing in common with the hot model.
Not interior, not suspension, and the brakes were a joke.
The car was a master of profit without delivering anything worth having.
Pathetic brakes.

Toyota is good at making one thing.
Profit.
And the odd sports car.

Those brakes were certainly marginal when perfect.
Wouldn't take much to see them fail, even an off pad.

I hope others are better.


I'm interested to see how the truth of this shakes out.
It seems clear that toyota thinks something is wrong.
Their behavior alone is bad enough.

I offered to install a master kill switch on my parent's car, though it isn't supposed to be drive by wire.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby cowboyangel » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:28 pm

post copies from Screw the Banks

For once I agree with you Geekster. The people are being screwed by the banking industry which watered down this stupid nothing of a bill. See now what Obama has in store for America:

cowboyangel wrote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 1601322076 426.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


Oh this is very interesting... the two republicans on the SEC commission wanted to pursue the Goldman case and were out voted by the three dems.

the settlement was blood money. fuckers.


I've been thinking about this. It looks like part of it at least is Obama pay back to Goldman, it was their money, and lots of it, that put him in the white house, more than to McCain. Wall St. owns the democrats.

Here's an interesting mp3 of what Obama is planning after the November elections:

Lest any of who still believe that Obama is the answer, find out here how he really is the curse:

http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/62402

Guns and Butter - "Obama Plans Lame Duck Sell-Out of Social Security" with Webster Tarpley.

The Financial Reform Bill, including The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau; the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, more popularly known as the White House Deficit Commission, the Austerity Commission, or the Peterson Commission; the G20 meeting in Toronto; the effort to export the depression.


Oh, could it be that the republicans on the SEC who wanted to pursue Goldman were thinking about other un-named investors who were screwed by Goldman? The settlement only went out to a few firms. Any thoughts people?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
User avatar
cowboyangel
 
Posts: 6987
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:28 pm

Have you guys been watching the naacp vs teabagger argument?

So far they are both losing at the same time.

One of the teabaggers called it naacp's 'March To Irrelevancy'.
User avatar
gyre
 
Posts: 15465
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:01 pm
Location: ΦάÏ

Postby Trishntek » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:48 pm

ygmir wrote:this "mantra" (for lack of a better term), kills me:

"It's not perfect, and, it has problems.........but at least we're doing SOMETHING, at least it's a start"..............

When, has the government, ever "undone" a law or rule....flawed, or not, once it's in place?
I'd even propose, they rarely fix 'em, let alone get rid of 'em.

How often, later, down the road, do the gov. officials point at some huge flaw, and, say something like:
we didn't anticipate this outcome
or,
it's no our fault, it's "theirs"

or,

"the people" just don't/can't understand how this works, or, how to think about it.......we'll tell them what it means, and, how to feel about it"......

of course, IMHO.......


During Lincoln's civil war, he was given unprecedented executive powers to deal with traitors, states rights and financial institutions. At the end of the war, he relinquished those powers unlike Wilson and Roosevelt.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!
User avatar
Trishntek
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!

Postby ygmir » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:45 am

Trishntek wrote:
ygmir wrote:this "mantra" (for lack of a better term), kills me:

"It's not perfect, and, it has problems.........but at least we're doing SOMETHING, at least it's a start"..............

When, has the government, ever "undone" a law or rule....flawed, or not, once it's in place?
I'd even propose, they rarely fix 'em, let alone get rid of 'em.

How often, later, down the road, do the gov. officials point at some huge flaw, and, say something like:
we didn't anticipate this outcome
or,
it's no our fault, it's "theirs"

or,

"the people" just don't/can't understand how this works, or, how to think about it.......we'll tell them what it means, and, how to feel about it"......

of course, IMHO.......


During Lincoln's civil war, he was given unprecedented executive powers to deal with traitors, states rights and financial institutions. At the end of the war, he relinquished those powers unlike Wilson and Roosevelt.




yay for Lincoln............*wishing to be a smart at Tnt*.........
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
User avatar
ygmir
 
Posts: 27369
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: nevada county
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq

Postby geekster » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:55 am

gyre wrote:Have you guys been watching the naacp vs teabagger argument?

So far they are both losing at the same time.

One of the teabaggers called it naacp's 'March To Irrelevancy'.


Well, I believe it comes across as looking really bad for the NAACP only because it makes them look less like anything related to having anything to do with P of C and more to do with being minions of the DNC.

First of all, there is really no such thing as "the" tea party movement. It is not centrally organized with a hierarchy as much as certain people have WANTED to make it so and place themselves somewhere at the top of that hierarchy. They are generally unaffiliated groups of people sick of our current government that has suddenly decided that it is the role of government to "take care" of people.

So you have a Congress that is making extremely unpopular decisions. Decisions their constituents do NOT want. For example, we wanted more affordable health care, we did NOT want government controlled health care. The people feel that their elected representatives are not listening to them. So they reach back into our history and find the Boston Tea Party as an icon that represents a moment in time when the people were fed up with their government and use that as they rallying point.

And that pretty much is the only thing the groups have in common. There could be 20 different "tea party" movements in a city, each one with its own group of people and not coordinated in any way.

For the NAACP to say that it is a "white supremacist" organization is at first laughable because being "white" has nothing to do with it. But then one begins to see how scared the Democrats are. When they start seeing black candidates for office showing up in places like the Palm Beach, Florida House district and the South Carolina Senate race, they have to find some way of scaring black voters away from these candidates so they come out with the "white supremacist" crap.

People were just kind of going "huh"?

It is so desperate and so off the wall and so tangential to the real movement's aims (which is to simply get incumbents fired) that it suddenly made the NAACP look really stupid and nothing more than doing what they are told by the DNC.

It is not so much a "march to irrelevancy" as that takes time. This was a rocket shot to irrelevancy and nothing the NAACP says in the political arena can be taken seriously anymore other than to be taken as if it were issued from the DNC. They can no longer be seen as an independent body. They are seen as acting to keep their demographic in the "correct" party. If you don't think they way you are "supposed" to think, then they whip out the "white supremacist" label. It was a REALLY stupid thing to do because it was just so over the top they they have now lost all influence on the issue. It is obviously a "last ditch" move because there really is nowhere else to go from there. They threw "the big one".

Now I also don't like the "teabagger" meme either because the tea party movement is something I feel is a great thing. Getting rank and file people involved and discussing politics is great, particularly when it is the average everyday people who have been uninvolved for so long. People are really pissed off at a nanny government who believes it has some mandate to "redistribute" our paychecks for us without our consent.

The Democrats mistook a disaffection for Republicans as affection for them. Obama won by no larger margin than Bush did over Kerry. The only reason Obama was elected wasn't because so many people voted for him, it was because so many Republicans stayed home or voted but did not cast a vote for McCain. The "Tea Party" movement is against the establishment Republicans, too.

Government is "helping" us to death. Everything it touches turns to shit. The passage if the new financial "reform" bill is going to cost us even more jobs and make our banking costs go even higher. Government health care reform is going to result in less care at higher cost. Rather than opening the market up and allowing more competition which would bring costs down, they decided to control it even more which is already resulting in higher costs.

Unlike the 1930's when corporate "robber barons" were seen as the cause of the problem, the majority of the people see government as responsible for this recession and do not believe that more government manipulation is going to fix it. Just last week that fucking idiot Barney Frank (Failure-MA) was calling for even MORE of the same sort of loans that got us into this mess to begin with. The man is absolutely idiotic.

This transcends political parties. It is a role of government issue. People are sick of government "helping" us into the poor house.

The first step has to come with government first admitting to itself that no matter what it does, there are still some really fucking stupid people out there that are going to make self-destructive choices and there is nothing it can do about it. If people have no money, simply giving them money does not fix the problem if they use it in casinos and strip clubs. They do not address the issue of why they have no money. They have no money because they make idiotic decisions. Government should not be in the business of protecting people from themselves. If you use your welfare card in a casino, the answer is not to spend millions of dollars figuring out how to prevent them from being used in casinos and strip clubs, the answer is to cut off the fucking welfare to those individuals because they ARE going to find another way to waste the fucking money. It is what they do. Just accept that.

Stop wasting money subsidizing idiots. Stop feeling sorry for idiots.

Look, I have a friend who had a sales position at a vendor for bleeding edge tech gear here in Silicon Valley. His company was bought by another company and he was made redundant and let go in the course of the merger. He sat at home for months collecting unemployment because as he put it, the check didn't cover everything but he didn't have to dig too far into his pocket to make up the difference needed for rent and bills. Then his benefits ran out when the Republicans decided they wanted the Democrats to say how they wanted to fund continuing unemployment benefits and the Democrats refused to say. He found another job within two weeks. He has now started his own company, already has a guy on board, and is selling equipment and professional services. He could have done that three months ago but the weekly checks enabled him to sit on his ass. He told me last week that he now feels he SHOULD have done it three months ago. Business apparently isn't all that bad in his line of work.

For some people, the specter of failure is a great motivator. For others, nothing motivates them and they just want to blame other people and be "taken care of" by their neighbors. FUCK THEM. We are tired of "helping"" them so much. It doesn't do any good. Giving them free stuff simply enables a lifestyle where you expect more free stuff.

Your job is not your neighbor's responsibility. It is YOUR responsibility.

Anyway, back on the topic, it is not a "march to irrelevance" it was a great big all in one jump to irrelevance. Nobody is going to pay much attention to anything the NAACP has to say as speaking for people of color. It is clear they are only speaking for the Democratic Party.

http://allenwestforcongress.com/
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby geekster » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:42 pm

In other words:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpraJYnbVtE[/youtube]
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby cowboyangel » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:35 pm

Geekster, I don't see any difference between government and the corporate and banking elite who control it. Government will never help us because it is almost entirely beholden to this elite. It is they who really run things. The tea baggers could amp up their membership if they simply saw it that way.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
User avatar
cowboyangel
 
Posts: 6987
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm

Postby geekster » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:32 am

I don't see any difference between government and the corporate and banking elite who control it.


It is because the things like those wild derivatives would have never happened if government didn't meddle in the mortgage market. There was just no need for them. Once government forced banks to make crap loans that they knew had a high risk of defaulting, they needed some other way to make their money on them so the whole AIG default insurance, derivatives, and all that other crap was born. The government turned a blind eye to it because there was no other way to reach the ridiculous Congressional mandates.

EVERY TIME government meddles in a market, they screw it up. You can not "manage" a market. Don't even try. If left alone, people will find the simplest and least complicated way possible to make their money. You start mandating this and that in ways that increase risk or the cost of doing business and they are going to get very creative in ways to mitigate those costs. They aren't going to create all that complexity themselves unless there is a reason to.

The market that is most efficient is the one that is left between buyer and seller. Also, what this administration has done is consolidated more power into the "banking elite" that provided the most in campaign support.

Compare Obama's top donors:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contr ... =n00009638

With McCains:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contr ... =n00006424

Look at the amounts involved.

The tea baggers could amp up their membership if they simply saw it that way.


Where the hell have you been? They have been seeing it that way all along. The establishment Republicans are no friends of the Tea Party. People like McCain are part of the problem. What the Tea Party movement wants is government to get the HELL OUT of meddling in markets, stop trying to be responsible for our health care, stop helping us to death. Stick to building roads, bridges, libraries and schools and let us take care of ourselves.

This all started with the Community Reinvestment Act on 1977 which ended up with layer upon layer upon layer of more crap piled onto it over the years. There was no need for Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac to begin with. They are the source of the problem, not the cure for it. The GSEs became a place where Democrats stuck cronies so they could put a few million dollars into their pockets.

American families are STILL paying for mistakes made by the Carter administration and now we have Carter on steroids as President. Bush never had a Senate with a 60 seat majority. He was warning about this problem starting in 2001, before 9/11. He couldn't get a bill through the Senate to increase regulation because the damned Democrats wouldn't let it get to the floor. A President can not make a law.

What we need to do at this point is return the Senate to being appointed by the state legislatures. This idea of popular vote for the Senate was a really cool idea back in 1913 before the majority of the population was urban. Now that the majority of the population is urban, we have a situation where whichever party controls the major metro in a state controls the entire Senate delegation for the state. That is wrong. It is allowing political machines of one city to in many cases control the Senate delegation. Illinois is an example. I would even settle for a compromise where ONE senator is appointed by the state legislature and one elected by the people. As it stands now, the state governments have no check on federal power. One of our primary checks and balances has been eliminated and it is costing is DEARLY.

Another thing we need to do is get rid of vote by mail and go back to appearing at a polling place. Vote by mail simply enables the "dead" vote. A person can cast any number of phony ballots. Appearing at a polling place means a person can only cast as many ballots as he can get to polling stations in one day. That will put an end to situations where you have more votes cast than you have registered voters or like in Al Frankin's case, more votes cast by dead people than the margin of victory in the election. Some 2000 dead voters "cast" ballots for Frankin in Minnesota where he won by less than 300 votes.

The problem is that the Democrats are pure slime. They are the party of union thugs and mob bosses. The Republicans are just pussies. The "teabagger" movement has both of them scared but is more of a libertarian movement. It seems to have the Democrats scared the most though ... as they should be.

I think it will be decades before we see another Democrat Congress. There aren't enough Democrat seats up in the Senate to make a big difference this election but by 2012 we are going to be in a world of hurt and then it will be the end of Democrats for a very long time. The people are just sick of it.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby geekster » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:18 am

CA, read this article:

http://weeklystandard.com/articles/easy ... rd-landing

[quote]This is an account of what ails us that is radically at odds with the familiar tale of greedy bankers in $5,000 suits. “Almost every financial crisis has political roots,â€
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby Trishntek » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:29 pm

cowboyangel wrote:Geekster, I don't see any difference between government and the corporate and banking elite who control it. Government will never help us because it is almost entirely beholden to this elite. It is they who really run things. The tea baggers could amp up their membership if they simply saw it that way.


I've gotta go with Geekster on this one,,,, and thanks for telling it like it is! cowboyangel, if the patriots were so comfy with the elite business world, why are they getting their money out of traditional savings and investments and buying tangibles like gold and silver?

You will find the tea party movement more inclined to support the local business community and promote states rights and local government over corporations and federal interventions.
RETROFROLIC, the place of Pink, Pain and Pleasure!
http://www.retrofrolic.com
Some call me Tnt,,,, works for me!
User avatar
Trishntek
 
Posts: 3464
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Ventura, CA, USA
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: Retrofrolic!

Postby geekster » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:46 pm

One of those "teabaggers" who announced his candidacy at a tea party rally. I would vote for this guy for any office.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SC3bjBfoXA[/youtube]
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

Postby geekster » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:53 pm

Drug cartels have taken over two ranches in Laredo, TX. Law enforcement is in the area trying to figure out what to do.

http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/ ... ETAS/31835

It looks like the Mexican Army started an operation against the cartels in the border town so they just moved over to the US side and took a couple of ranches. I suppose they are safe now as we are not allowed to enforce immigration laws. I imagine the border patrol will simply send them a strongly worded letter.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
User avatar
geekster
 
Posts: 4870
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing

PreviousNext

Return to Open Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ygmir and 11 guests