Suggestion for making burning man free

All things outside of Burning Man.

Postby Flux » Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:58 pm

DE FACTO wrote:better yet, to avoid thread drift (because I like this thread) could some one create a thread of whichever title or topic and I'll be there to answer.

Done!

Can we please, please, please not deal with this shit anywhere else any more? Fuck!
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Postby PetsUntilEaten » Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:54 pm

Since when did Burning Man claim to be COMMERCE FREE? I thought that the trading, gifting, etc. without actual cash was a form of creating more social commerce in the vacuum of cash commerce. That seems to serve its purpose.

And why does everyone get bent on absolutes? As if any commerce at all somehow nullifies the massive positive effect of being nearly money free. Like taking a vow of silence for a week - just because you speak again doesn't mean you didn't learn something from the experience.

And for the last time - if you aren't resourceful enough to pull $145 together sooner or $225 later - then you have bigger problems that will keep you from enjoying your Burning Man experience.
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Postby J » Fri Nov 07, 2003 3:10 pm

I've decided that I am going to bring a shit load of monopoly money at some point of time attempt to puchase something at the center cafe, it might only work once. Or just dress like the guy from the monoploly box and randomly declare people have "won second place in the beuaty contest"

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Postby III » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:08 pm

>monopoly money at some point of time attempt to puchase something at the center cafe

or just print out a couple hundred fancy looking coupons for "free chai or latte at the center camp cafe, good wednesday afternoon only" and spend all day tuesday handing them out at the man and other high traffic places.
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Postby Lydia Love » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:13 pm

or just print out a couple hundred fancy looking coupons for "free chai or latte at the center camp cafe, good wednesday afternoon only" and spend all day tuesday handing them out at the man and other high traffic places.


what a breathtakingly evil idea
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Postby Chai Guy » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:21 pm

what a breathtakingly evil idea


Shhhhh.... I had the same idea, let's keep this one on the D.L. (down low)

Muahhahahaaaaaa!!!
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Postby J » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:39 pm

hmmmm. I must look in this, I know a couple graphic designers who owe me favours.

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Postby ramen » Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:25 pm

III wrote:>
or just print out a couple hundred fancy looking coupons for "free chai or latte at the center camp cafe, good wednesday afternoon only" and spend all day tuesday handing them out at the man and other high traffic places.


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Postby Iago » Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:29 pm

Bob wrote:Do_Japan --

What sort of vendor(s) did you have in mind?


Well if there was vending (just pretend) I would do like a AAA roadside service for broken dildos. Be right over to give you a personal jump start...
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Postby SED » Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:11 pm

Back to thread here, and with an unparalled obnoxious point: The high price keeps out the hordes of scumbags and freeloaders that ruin every Rainbow Gathering and killed the Grateful Dead parking lot scene. Do you want assholes wandering around selling 5$ nitrous balloons. Do you want the Feds to horn in for their cut? That'lll mean more LEOs (god bless 'em). No money on site means no armed robbery either, or the mafia, for that matter.

Besides, do we need more stoned people losing their wallets?

The steep price is the same as the harsh envirnonment. It keeps all but the most comitted from arriving, and makes sure that those who do arrive have enough of their shit together to scrape up a couple hundred bucks. No mercy for the poor. If you can't afford 250 smacks, then you should probably not be partying so much anyway.

I for one, feel I've gotten more than my money's worth each time I've been.

And furthermore, any thread drift in the direction of DeFacto's status as a twit will be met with tenacious ferocity. As highly as we must suffer the fools, we must persecute their oppressors with equal vigor.
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Postby Hotblack Desiato » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:09 am

250/7 days = about $35.71/day.

You're really going to insist that Burning Man become littered with the same logos and sales pitches and come-ons that we all have to cope with year-round... for a measly thirty-five bucks a day?!!

That seems like losing quite a lot for very, very little.

Even counting food and water and blinkies, Burning Man is an absolute steal as vacations go. Point of comparison: my spouse and I are going to Vegas for Christmas. We booked in September. Airfare and 4 nights at the Luxor, even with a Travelocity package deal, are already $850 -- over twice what we paid for our Burning Man tickets this year. That's not including steak, blackjack, and tickets to the new naked Cirque du Soleil.

That $250 ticket don't look so bad now, do it?

[Edit: It occurs to me that, were Burning Man to allow vending, the folks who go for that sort of thing would probably drop at least $35 per day at the booths anyway. Six of one, etc etc.]
Last edited by Hotblack Desiato on Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Wind_Borne » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:41 am

Do_Japan,

Don't let the ticket cost deter you. Remember, you won't spend anything else for seven days! If you're together enough to get your ass to Black Rock City with shelter and supplies for your stay, then you're together enough to cover the cost of the ticket. Please join us next year.
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Postby Wind_Borne » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:53 am

BTW, thanks to technopatra for that thoughtful post.

(I may be falling in loe with technopatra! Oops, did I say that out loud?)
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Postby Wind_Borne » Sat Nov 08, 2003 12:54 am

(or love)
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
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Zero Vendors

Postby Caroline Stuckey » Sat Nov 08, 2003 3:19 am

I can understand where you are coming from, I found it a very difficult concept to grasp having lived in an environment drowned in commerce for so long, particularly with so few opportunities to explore other ways of surviving.

In the UK throughout the year, I am able to escape back into the dark ages of re-enactment/Live Role Play, at a cost of $80 for a weekend. At each event there are vendors or traders who turn up with their stalls to sell their wares. They dress in their kit according to the style of the event, as a Viking Warrior, Saxon, Arragorn or Luke Skywalker, but that is as far as most can go. Whilst everyone else around them is living and breathing and interacting in this real fantasy world, the traders stand outside, distracted. Most find it difficult to participate, and it is understandable because to fully immerse themselves, would mean they would loose their focus, and that could cost them the next sale, the revenue, the £150.00 that they have to earn before they will break even to cover their costs on the event etc etc.

Burning Man is a participatory event, practically everyone gets involved - okay there are a few who may slip through the net, but the Karma police are there for them :D . I personally would like to see free coffee and ice served at Centre Camp rather than encourage more vendors to trade.

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Postby joel the ornery » Sat Nov 08, 2003 4:21 am

In 1999, I drove through Sturgis S.D. a week prior to the event... and saw nothing but vendors lining the streets and shops. Some vendors had previously bought old stores on the main street of town and used them only two weeks per year during the Sturgis Motorcycle rally. In effect, they took tax revenue from the community and gave nothing back except a boarded up store front after the event.

I believe I have seen what over-commercialization did to Sturgis S.D. and I want no part of it in my little Burning Man universe.

Now, get back to work.
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Postby Badger » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:05 am

Am I wrong in assuming that this is a thread going in the right direction?

A question asked. Sensible answers ensue. Caroline, Wind_Borne, Hotblack, SED, et al...

De Facto's nattering, verbal perastalsis slashed to a minimum because no one's responding to his online bullshit one-liners?

I mean, what's going on here?
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Postby Bob » Sat Nov 08, 2003 5:18 am

Do_Japan wrote:Vendors that make money.


Well, fuck me for deleting Please be specific from my last post.

If there's one thing Burning Man needs, it's fresher, more brilliant ideas. The main reason you don't see tee-shirt vendors is that the board doesn't want to see tee-shirt vendors. It's an esthetic thing.
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Postby ramen » Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:12 pm

Badger wrote:Am I wrong in assuming that this is a thread going in the right direction?

I mean, what's going on here?


A temporary rash of sanity...don't worry, it will pass.

Do_Japan has split the scene. I'm bummed.
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Postby Wind_Borne » Sat Nov 08, 2003 7:31 pm

Re-reading Do_Japan's original post I realize that there is another aspect to the question that I had not seen before:

> ide much rather spend my money on supplies there

I'm seeing this as an expression of the expectation of easy gratification. But, as we know, pulling it all together is essential to the experience. It's part of the self-sufficiency thing.
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best things in life are free, well, except for hookers...

Postby Last Real Burner » Sat Nov 08, 2003 9:00 pm

III wrote:>naked booties

<img src="http://www.cultureshark.net/tgoesh/ass1.jpg">

you're welcome.


Jeez III, put those things back in your pants, for christsake. You should let out a warning Klaxxon or something before you accidently sear our eyes shut with those puppies.

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Postby BlueBirdPoof » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:04 am

rogue agent wrote: Speaking of which, does anybody have the URL for the BMorg's financial sheet handy? I went looking for it & couldn't find it.

RA


Here's 2002 http://afterburn.burningman.com/02/financial_chart.html
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Postby BlueBirdPoof » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:08 am

J wrote:I've decided that I am going to bring a shit load of monopoly money at some point of time attempt to puchase something at the center cafe, it might only work once. Or just dress like the guy from the monoploly box and randomly declare people have "won second place in the beuaty contest"

J


Genius. I actually had some altered play money with me this year, but lacked the guts to gift it.
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Postby BlueBirdPoof » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:23 am

I'll confess that I'm not convinced that we have a "true gift economy" at Burning Man. In the back of my mind, I keep thinking of what they used to say about Club Med--that once you got there, you didn't have to handle cash. (To paraphrase.) Also, way before I ever went to BRC I was handing out my crocodiles in the "real" world, and I have to say it was, for me, a realer, more subversive experience. In part, it was unexpected. And in part, I didn't go mentally--hey! you're not worshipping my talent enough! And what a chinzy piece of plastic in return for hand made glass beads!
(Aside--I didn't do well at meeting and making connections either time I was on playa--one reason that I'm doggedly trying to participate here.)
That being said, I agree that vendors would make the price go up. It would cut down on the real effort that real people make to express themselves, and as I've said before, that's one of the real attractions for me--that creativity is just short of manditory. It's not a perfect set up. I don't completely trust some of the things that have been written and said. But it's trying something. Anyone can create a vendor-heavy event. You could plagerise a business plan off the net and be ready in the spring. I wouldn't attend.
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In agreement

Postby SHARPER » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:52 am

So many of you have answered the original post in ways with which I can not help but applaud. 2004 will be my first burn - a part of the attraction is that it is NOT a vendor based event, but a place where I can simply be myself and relax, cut loose, snooze, whatever, with like minded people who will not judge me! An event with vendors turns it into a circus not an experience. Self reliance - using the grey matter inside your skull to figure out what will I need to bring with me in order to survive a week in the playa and how can I cut all that down to a minimum so I don't need a uhaul! Creativity, imagination, co-existance with giving as a reward for receiving something I may have neglected to bring with me or giving because someone was nice to me for no reason whatsoever - not because I spent $20 for a at shirt at their booth! for anyone who doesn't understand the concept, the fee for the tickets pays for alot of the things we need at the event - for example - (and this is a repeat) THE FEE CHARGED BY THE BLM FOR THE USE OF THE PLAYA!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby III » Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:59 am

>the fee for the tickets pays for alot of the things we need at the event - for example - (and this is a repeat) THE FEE CHARGED BY THE BLM FOR THE USE OF THE PLAYA!!!!!!!!!!!


this is a repeat too: the blm fees account for about 10% of the total ticket cost.
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Postby rogue agent » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:56 am

I just looked over the 2002 financial report and all it lists is expenditures. Is there anywhere that lists income? The two items I'm specifically interested in are ice sales & coffee sales.

RA
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Postby rogue agent » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:21 am

Bob wrote:The main reason you don't see tee-shirt vendors is that the board doesn't want to see tee-shirt vendors. It's an esthetic thing.


Anytime you have commerce, you bring commercial messages along with it. Advertising, marketing, hell even seeing the product itself in someone else's hands or on their body will pollute the mental environment by introducing consumerism into it.

Part of what makes Burning Man unique is that for that entire week I know that I will experience no commercial messages, no inducements to buy anything. Everything I look at or hear is there because someone wanted to share something of themselves with me, without expecting anything from me in return.

That's an extraordinary freedom. I will not give it up.

RA
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Postby Ivy » Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:40 pm

The two items I'm specifically interested in are ice sales & coffee sales.


RA,
I've never seen any actual reposrts, only read allusions to them, in places like the BRG. If you or anyone else runs into something like this, I'd also be interested in seeing it.
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Postby technopatra » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:06 pm

SED wrote:Besides, do we need more stoned people losing their wallets?


Busted. OK, yeah, that's the real reason I like being money free.

Did I mention that one year I lost my wallet, keys, and eyeglasses at the beginning of the event, stressed all week about it, only to find them in my glove compartment, where I had put them for safekeeping, on the drive home?
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