Negativity on the eplaya

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Negativity on the eplaya

Postby Lydia Love » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:48 pm

I spun this off of my own questions on the "Eplaya and You" thread.

There's no question that many people perceive a lot of negativity going around. I'm curious to hear what behaviors people actually opine as negative in, hopefully, a reasonably positive manner.

As I stated in "Eplaya and You" the countless vanity threads create a lot of frustration for me. I don't mind seeing them pop-up every so often (sometimes we just have to let that adoration be known) but we have a bunch right now cluttering up the forums and no end in sight. My own concerns about negativity have made me hesitate to say anything - and plenty of people are positively reinforcing their creation by posting therein.

My request would be to please limit threads named after specific posters to one - they can always be bumped up as they continue to be adored.

So, what's getting under *your* skin? Any ideas for fixing it?
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Postby Chai Guy » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:33 pm

Threads that are irrelevant and receive no responses quickly sink to the bottom. I think a bigger problem is mutlitple posts on different boards (see The Piss Clear "Drug Issue" was confiscated! posting in Beyond Belief and Experiences). That seems like a problem that could be easily fixed by a moderator (by consolidating multiple posts), but I don't think they want to discourage anyone from posting anything at this point.

If it would make you feel better, I could start a Lydia Love thread.
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Postby Lydia Love » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:36 pm

Uh... thanks but no thanks. I'm not fishing!

I count some of the vanity threads as the same problem... many threads, different forums, one topic.
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Postby DE FACTO » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:59 pm

Chai Guy wrote:
If it would make you feel better, I could start a Lydia Love thread.


darn you beat me to it.

Lydia Love has great art and writing on her site.
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Postby Bob » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:27 pm

Negativity. Hmm.

A perception so vague that it's impossible to refute, isn't it?
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Postby Lydia Love » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:31 pm

A perception so vague that it's impossible to refute, isn't it?


That's pretty much why I'm trying to nail down some specifics.
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Postby DE FACTO » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:35 pm

the only real negativity i know of was with digiman. but that really was'nt that bad. i've seen other lists that are worse.
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Civility

Postby SED » Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:46 pm

What if there were a general move toward civility, such as refraining from labeling people as 'fuck wits' and so on?

The best way to encourage positive behavior is by example.
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Postby foamin' at the mouth » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:36 pm

Lydia Love wrote: Any ideas for fixing it?

Interesting this conversation about negativity on this place and fixing it. My personal experience as a new user has been to receive a rather warm welcome . I have observed this on most every thread where I note a name I havent read before, particularly new names. I usually click on the profile and read some of the other comments that person has written. Most everyone who is posting for the first time gets a response from someone who has been around for awhile. Even if its brief.

When one approaches it for the first time it more like a complex carpet from Shiraz than a bunch of threads. (I think your old one was like that too.)

If you look through most of the information here it's not really negative-it's just colorful and one can finds all kinds of patterns and personality and nuggets of information --like a treasure hunt. Gold.

Negativity with whom? might be a question.

By Regular Users towards New Users? The evidence (take a look around) contradicts this.

By the Developers of this environment towards the long time Regular Users? Perhaps they were treated thoughtlessly by the harried volunteers who put this new format together. Too bad, because they so actively utilized the old one that they would have been a good asset. Rude, shortsighted, or maybe just a fuckup. Or maybe these developers counted too much on the unspoken knowledge that the regulars were handling the content and didn't need to be hassled about format. So good intentions never articulated clearly, were perhaps misunderstood?


By Regular Users towards each other? Well, they usually work through it. (once again, take a look around-start at the beginning of one of the threads.)

Things seem okay to me.
Perhaps when I understand more about the manufacture of the individual dyes and wools of this tapestry I'll see things differently. Now it just looks highly varied.

Some Middle Eastern tribal weavers intentionally weave a flaw into their carpets. This is to honor the perfection of the gods and to acknowledge their own humaness and to acknowledge the limits of their technology.

I'm gonna go take a look around now and see whats new. Wish I new how to preview this in the context of the other posts above so I could be sure I wasn't killing the thread.
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Postby Lydia Love » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:54 pm

You just articulated all my little scattered thoughts... perfectly. And then some.
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Postby PJ » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:18 am

Negativity on the eplaya


And what about double-negativity? Is it negative to be against negativity?
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Postby madmatt » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:35 am

"Threads that are irrelevant and receive no responses quickly sink to the bottom."

Herein lies the paradox. The discussion board is brutally democratic, so, bluntly, if you don't like it get out. I don't like some stuff, like the negativity, but the only real way to deal with someone on the board you think is a complete idiotassholemysoginistracistfuckfacepessimist is to ignore them.

The only reason for their input is to enjoy everyone getting riled up, all becuase of them.

As for negativity, I would define it as there being a persistent level of skepticism, pessimism, rudeness, sarcasm, etc. without a hint of good natured joking (no hint hint nudge nudge, you know I don't really hate you right?)

The downside of it is, it turns off newcomers to the board very quickly, unless they are like minded or thickskinned.
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Postby Lydia Love » Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:19 am

As for negativity, I would define it as there being a persistent level of skepticism, pessimism, rudeness, sarcasm, etc. without a hint of good natured joking (no hint hint nudge nudge, you know I don't really hate you right?)


It's weird - I just don't see that much of this going on... but I think I mentally assume the good natured joking which mitigates much of that skepticism, etc.

if you don't like it get out


So... don't bother trying to discuss it eh? The crowds have spoken, nothing can be changed, siddown and shut the fuck up?

I'm not sure I'm ready to give in to that philosophy. Communities grow and change - this particular one is in it's infancy in many ways. I'd like to think I might have *something* to contribute to it's growth and improvement.
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Postby madmatt » Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:48 am

"if you don't like it get out"

I don't mean that I think this. I mean in that a pure democratic form has this as a mechanism. Of course you should try to change it if you love it and want to improve it, but, because it is purely determined by the people who make it up, it will go the way everyone collectively creates it, not the way individuals try to direct it.
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Postby TestesInSac » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:17 am

madmatt wrote:"Threads that are irrelevant and receive no responses quickly sink to the bottom."

Herein lies the paradox. The discussion board is brutally democratic, so, bluntly, if you don't like it get out.


The core premise here, that the board is brutally democratic, points out the importance of the "electorate" of the board. If that electorate were mostly mental pre-adolescents, as you might find in a grade school, it's easy to see how nutritious, but to kids not necessarily entertaining, topics might sink out of view. As an adult visiting that board, (one hopes) you would likely become bored very quickly and move on. If it were your job/project/thesis involved monitoring that board, work it would be indeed.

madmatt wrote:I don't like some stuff, like the negativity, but the only real way to deal with someone on the board you think is a complete idiotassholemysoginistracistfuckfacepessimist is to ignore them....The only reason for their input is to enjoy everyone getting riled up, all becuase of them.


Interesting that everyone focuses on the negativity, the trolls, the name-calling, etc. I flamed Chimp because he irritated me and because I thought he was a troll, and I still do. But now I see that I'd rather be irritated than just plain bored, and so much of what's left of this board is just plain boring.

madmatt wrote:As for negativity, I would define it as there being a persistent level of skepticism, pessimism, rudeness, sarcasm, etc. without a hint of good natured joking (no hint hint nudge nudge, you know I don't really hate you right?)

The downside of it is, it turns off newcomers to the board very quickly, unless they are like minded or thickskinned.


The definition isn't unreasonable, and it's clear that <u>some</u> newcomers are put off by it. That isn't all bad, however, here or on the playa. In universities one learns (at higher levels of discourse) the adversarial approach to testing arguments, and a thick skin there can make the difference between graduating or not. BM attendees should also know that the desert tests you, physically and emotionally, and that's part of what keeps it interesting.

The best a weak ego can hope for is to be tip-toed around, and to must of the "Old Hats" here that would be an insult. And for me, if I'm not being tested in some way, there's a good chance that I'm just being bored.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:17 am

idiotassholemysoginistracistfuckfacepessimist


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:38 am

hey i wonder if it's the same persons that have been complaining everywhere on this BBS? i wonder what was the statistics for the same complainers on the old BBS?

Just so you know ,I am not looking to start any trouble. I really was just curious. I have a few clients that I make good money on because they really love to complain and/or are just never happy.

Give you an example. 1 woman client of mine had me come over and upgrade her from windows 98 to windowds xp.
then 2 days later she is not happy with it and PAYS for me to come back out there to take out xp and put 98 back in.
a week later .....you guessed it, had to go back to put xp in because she was talking to her friends and they said she should stick with it.

I have to go back out there now to fix her machine because she took the antivirus out because before i did the updates to her computer, she never had an antivirus and just felt it was stupid and did'nt need it. needless to say she has the blaster worm......blah blah blah.
and that was just making this long story short because there is more....

some people are like that no matter what.....you know.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:40 am

ok now i'm gonna complain.

i'm gonna see about adding a spell checker to the BBS.
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Postby stuart » Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:54 am

this is the only board on wich I have ever been tempted to create a puppet and mercilously attack people who are drastically abusing the signal to noise ratio with their thread spawning. If you want a thread for yourself and your cronies please just make the one. Bump it daily if you need to. If you just make the one, the rest of us can check it the required one time and remember to ignore it later.
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Postby herself » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:49 pm

> some people are like that no matter what.....you know.

I call these people Needy Users and my reaction to them is usually mixed between irritation and respect. They want the most out of the system because they're doing stuff that will exploit any time-saving advantages that are introduced into the system. I don't think they're necessarily bad but when I used to be a sysadmin, I usually saved their concerns for last, because most people aren't needy users and will not get around to exploiting the finer points of the software. hh.
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Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:52 pm

Wow, I don't feel like I have the tools to address this properly, but that's one reason I'm here, to try and work on that thick skin/pass it over/ adversarial arguing/ thing.

What's bugging me is when people don't point out the examples of the issues they bring up.

I thought the affirmations thread was negative, so I said so. Maybe you see it differently, that's all right. My reality doesn't have to be your reality.

If you want to talk about personal responsibility, tell a story that illustrates your point

"the vets on the board, at least at first glance, seemed like a bunch of pricks. " Who are these people?

if you want to talk about thumbsucking, tell a story that illustrates your point

if you have someone that's chasing you off, say who - whether it gives that person a kick or not - Don't let them control what you say!

If you have a gripe about the bbs, explain it, because maybe someone else out there has the answer you've been looking for.

If you think someone is being a professional victim or a certain post is indicative of that mindset, say who or which post so they can take another look at it!

The tag line "Don't judge a person by their..." Where's the judgement? I'm sorry I missed it, it's probably staring me in the face, but what are you talking about? And why does it have to show up in every freaking post?

At times I've thought I've had a remarkable lack of negativity directed at my posts, maybe something out there's unsaid? I mean Jesus, I've been quoting Jon Carroll for God's sake!

I still think the stuff in Affirmation like "Maybe you're purpose in life is to be a bad example" or "The common denominator in all your failed relationships is you." or "I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing WITH the other people that are laughing at you." or "the best part of you ran down the goats leg....." are negative. And I think if someone is self-reliant, community minded, and a creative doer (I am not describing myself here), that kind of stuff can push them away from the event.

Soon after I came on here, I posted a piece about Center Camp, and someone offerred me a more negative take on my experience there.

When I freaked out and posted an extremely hurting/hurtful tmi post, I got a new way of looking at it when someone quoted back to me part of what I'd written. And someone else who offerred back a way of looking at it that I had previously held onto for about 80% of my days. That helped me push that ratio back up to about %95.

That's what I came here for, an honest exchange of ideas about specific issues. We don't have to worry about being friends, we're playing/learning/planning in an online world. Maybe friendships will develop maybe they won't.

But indirect slamming is counterproductive. It just pisses people off, and they regress to infantilized cry-baby's, which takes the whole board a step down.

Ignoring can be counter-productive too, if the ignored never gets the idea that they are fucking the place up.

There, there's my little rant. If you think it sucks, feel free to tell me. That's one of the central freaking tenets of the whole experience.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:53 pm

herself wrote:I used to be a sysadmin, I usually saved their concerns for last, because most people aren't needy users and will not get around to exploiting the finer points of the software. hh.


same here. i't's like this guy i know that has this killer sony viao full blown, make your own video burn your own cd and dvd......never uses it. well for downloading tons of porn. but that's ok it's his system.
just wish sometimes he would leave me alone. but that will never happen.
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Postby aforceforgood » Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:06 pm

abeerinthemorning wrote:I still think the stuff in Affirmation like "Maybe you're purpose in life is to be a bad example" or "The common denominator in all your failed relationships is you." or "I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing WITH the other people that are laughing at you." or "the best part of you ran down the goats leg....." are negative. And I think if someone is self-reliant, community minded, and a creative doer (I am not describing myself here), that kind of stuff can push them away from the event.


l think they're funny. YMMV. There's not gonna be any way to definitely nail down any one determination on this, it's a judgement call. IMO, it's negative if it ain't funny, or at least doesn't attempt to be funny.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:15 pm

abeerinthemorning wrote:Wow, I don't feel like I have the tools to address this properly, but that's one reason I'm here, to try and work on that thick skin/pass it over/ adversarial arguing/ thing.

What's bugging me is when people don't point out the examples of the issues they bring up.

I thought the affirmations thread was negative, so I said so. Maybe you see it differently, that's all right. My reality doesn't have to be your reality.



you've accomplished it all with this entire posting. your tools work fine.
you have put it so eloquently. (for me anyway)
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Postby stuart » Fri Oct 17, 2003 1:51 pm

I found the affirmations thread so hilarious that I opened up a new browser and checked amazon to see If I could get the book that badger was pulling that shit from.

guess it's an eye/beholder thing.

when I bitch about thread diarhea I don't use specific examples b/c I don't want to single anyone out. I guess I feel that if you don't know what I mean by that then you have not been bothered by it and thus an example is moot.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:04 pm

stuart wrote:when I bitch about thread diarhea I don't use specific examples b/c I don't want to single anyone out. I guess I feel that if you don't know what I mean by that then you have not been bothered by it and thus an example is moot.


please do mention who and what bothers you because i have to know if it's me that bothers you. it helps me to improve upon certain things i'm going after.

really. ok?

not only that but i dont want to mix anything up as do so many here on the bbs.

it's ok. i welcome it.
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Postby PJ » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:17 pm

Negativity is unpleasant. But indifference is death. My impression is that there's more of that as time goes on.
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Postby Lydia Love » Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:18 pm

when I bitch about thread diarhea I don't use specific examples b/c I don't want to single anyone out. I guess I feel that if you don't know what I mean by that then you have not been bothered by it and thus an example is moot.


I also haven't used specific examples because I would prefer this not devolve to finger pointing. I see what you are saying Beer - but I don't necessarily agree.

Oh... and I think the affirmations thread is hilarious. But if you are looking for a place to put ACTUAL affirmations please give it a try.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:12 pm

Lydia Love wrote:
Oh... and I think the affirmations thread is hilarious. But if you are looking for a place to put ACTUAL affirmations please give it a try.


i'm going to have to take another real good look at the affirmations thread.
i'll take Lydia Love's advise anytime.


anything is better than this.

viewtopic.php?t=2079&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

well it is'nt too bad...it's starting to turn out to be pretty darn funny
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Postby Bob » Fri Oct 17, 2003 3:37 pm

<pre> > hey i wonder if it's the same persons that have been<br> > complaining everywhere on this BBS? i wonder what was <br> > the statistics for the same complainers <br> > on the old BBS? </pre>

Once they install the [plonk] button, those stats will be available, no doubt.

Three [plonk]s and you're out?

Sheesh.
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