If there was ever a serious national threat...

All things outside of Burning Man.

Postby TestesInSac » Mon Oct 06, 2003 6:43 pm

blyslv wrote:"Survivor's Camp: Celebrating the Post-Apocalypse Good Times. Join us as we replicate conditions of civic breakdown and martial law. Team together with a diverse group and devise coping skills and survival strategies. Free loaders will be eaten. Learn to make your own bullets."


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Postby PJ » Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:13 pm

herself wrote:starvation, disease, and predation.

Oh and where will YOU be Mr PJ?



Someplace where I can grow a surplus of food as well as hunt, gather, and fish. I'd prefer it to be a warmish climate but most regions conducive to cultivation have a significant winter. (And most tropical regions have serious levels of tropical diseases.) In addition to all that it'd have to be someplace I could get to despite post-apocalyptic conditions yet not over-crowded. (So Hawaii's probably out.)

Another option would be to kill and eat the occasional hippy that stops in hoping to trade arts n' crafts for my surplus crops.
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Postby Badger » Mon Oct 06, 2003 7:26 pm

Temperate zone:
-where domesticated animals can be re-domesticated.
-where crops can grow well.
-where there's abundant water resources (nothing cyclical).
-where natural disease vectors are marginal.
-where there's abundant lumber.
-area that's easily defended against marauding tribes.
-area that has available (and relatively accessible) fuel resources (coal, oil shale or lignite)
-where there's a local tittie bar that serves cheap, cold beer - (for PJ)


For starters.

Living in Colorado PJ has a pretty good option of finding a place. I'd probably head that way - probably on the western edge of the Rockies or somewhere within the geographical region of the Colorado Plateau. Second choice would be the Shenandoah Valley region in Virginia.
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Postby antron » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:02 pm

Anonymous wrote:Antron, I'm in danger of losing my job anyway by the end of the month. And the info I gave out is stuff I was told I could speak about.
...

And with that, the Kinetic account is no more. Goodbye and goodluck to all!


having done my time with telcos, and having experienced up close their limited imaginations on a number of levels, i just thought i'd ask.

sorry to see you go pfft. i enjoyed having you around. hope you're back soon.
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Postby PJ » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:10 pm

Another option would be to provision a medium-sized sailboat and head to Australia, staying ahead of the fallout clouds. You know, like they did in On the Beach.
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Postby diane o'thirst » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:50 pm

Oregon's got everything I could possibly ask for. I probably wouldn't go far from home, there are forests you can disappear into and <i>never</i> be found in just about an hour from where I am. Plus it's a relatively mild climate: snow never lasts long if and when it falls.

Plus I got a horse...pile him into the trailer, hitch it to the car, drive out towards the coast road, head north...walk away from rig somewhere around Yachats or Manzanita...bye-bye. Chanterelles and huckleberries for breakfast, salmon for lunch, venison for dinner.

Okay, that aside, here's a slightly-related question. I had this nightmare during the immediate 9/11/01 aftermath that Al Qaeda (or some other terrorist organization) hit Burning Man, for pretty much the same "Offensive to Muslims" rationale the Taliban used when they took out the Afghani Buddhas. What would we all do? Remember, this is a (mostly) disarmed populace: other than maybe pointing the odd flame-throwing art car and truckload of DPW at them, the majority of us would probably be mostly ineffectual (unless we had the modern-day equivalent of Mediæval English longbowman — who further thought to bring their rigs with them).
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Postby Bob » Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:16 pm

Darwin at work.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby PJ » Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:45 pm

diane o'thirst wrote:...I had this nightmare during the immediate 9/11/01 aftermath that Al Qaeda (or some other terrorist organization) hit Burning Man, for pretty much the same "Offensive to Muslims" rationale the Taliban used when they took out the Afghani Buddhas. What would we all do?


We'd improvise. Recall that, on 9/11, the suicidal terrorists only managed to get three of their four airplanes into the targets. By the time airplane #4 was commandeed random Americans, <i>despite being enroute passengers,</i> knew via cell phone what was up. And they stormed the cockpit. Didn't happen to save the plane or themselves but they thwarted the hijacker's intent. And within minutes after that all airliners over or near the US had been grounded. End of immediate threat.

BTW, the young husband of a former employee of mine was that "Let's roll!" guy. Small world, eh?
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:04 am

As in "Bugs Liffe" Go to the light--go to the light. I' not one for a lot of pain. In Or. we have the "Right to die" law. I suppose ole Ascroft would be digging me up and throw me in jail.
/Running to catch the last basket of the day
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Postby toktomi » Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:33 am

diane o'thirst wrote:Oregon's got everything I could possibly ask for.


now that ya mention it, oregon's coast range really does look good from a chicken little point of view. hmmm....
of course, that's just my opinion...
...maybe.
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Postby alice » Thu Oct 09, 2003 12:45 am

i''ll be making chaimmail.
bitch all you want - it won't change nothin.
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Postby nipples » Thu Oct 09, 2003 5:48 am

consider what indigenous people of the region have historically done for food/shelter. they have survived for thousands of years before chris cross landed in 1692 singing "sail away", driving them formerly uninhabited/less desirable areas.

build an "Indian Tacos" booth, and you may have both problems solved.

however, that may be bad advise due to the fact that all taco booths found in archeological sites have included electric griddles.

good luck, ms. annie!
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Postby Alpha » Thu Oct 09, 2003 6:36 am

alice wrote:i''ll be making chaimmail.


Jewish chain mail?
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resistance is futile/geoge w. & iroquois wait for instru

Postby nipples » Thu Oct 09, 2003 8:55 am

source: http://www.bluecorncomics.com/july4th.htm

"After the Americans invaded Iroquois towns in the Susquehanna Valley in 1778, George Washington, determined to exterminate the Indian threat once and for all, ordered a massive sweep of Iroquois country, specifying that it should "not merely be overrun, but destroyed." Following orders by Washington to "lay waste all the settlements," Gen. John Sullivan's men ravaged 40 villages, burned 500 houses, and destroyed 100,000 bushels of corn. Some units stopped to plunder graves for burial goods; others skinned the bodies of dead Iroquois to make leggings.


Eradication and land grabs were embraced by Virginians George Washington and Thomas Jefferson when they were president, policies that had their origins in Virginia early in the 17th century.

The Indians called Washington "Conotacarious"—devourer of villages. He ordered the destruction of Indian villages in New York state during the Revolutionary War and warned other tribes he would do the same thing to them if they fought the Americans, Ragan said.


Before the Revolution
Crispus Attucks, the first person killed in the Revolution, had an African father and a Masschuset Indian mother.


The patriots who instigated the "Boston Tea Party" dressed as Indians because Indians represented freedom from tyranny to them. "
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Re: resistance is futile/geoge w. & iroquois wait for in

Postby blyslv » Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:36 am

nipples wrote: ravaged 40 villages, burned 500 houses, and destroyed 100,000 bushels of corn. Some units stopped to plunder graves for burial goods; others skinned the bodies of dead Iroquois to make leggings.


Eradication and land grabs


Good work if you can get it....


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Postby nipples » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:35 pm

George W. (dub-ya) & the Iraquis'
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Postby nipples » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:08 pm

Cro-Nagnum nipples; Erect.
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Postby joel the ornery » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:54 am

Bob wrote:Darwin at work.


Uh.... what Bob said.
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Postby thoughtsurfer » Mon Nov 03, 2003 12:37 pm

"I'd go ONLY if Larry dropped the admission price to $100 (with NO tier system) and let everyone have guns again (after all, it IS the apocalypse, right?)."
Love this, Blenderhead!

...Improvise? Yes...

how about E-darts, fire dancing armies and "Larry the gray"?
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Postby BlueBirdPoof » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:04 pm

Badger wrote:Temperate zone:
-where domesticated animals can be re-domesticated.
.


You're talking about reclaiming ferals or even "liberating" local livestock at the de facto fire sale, I hope. Good luck re-domesticating the Aurochs when a--it's extinct, and b--it was a european beast.

Simelar with the crops. I suggest buying heritage seeds every year--none of this hybred, frankenfood, hot-house flower, round-up ready crap.

As for me--well, it's not like they're ever going to put up those suicide barriers on the bridge, so that's my ace in the hole as it were. (Okay, okay, that's SARS+, not nuclear holocaust.)

nipples wrote:chris cross landed in 1692 singing "sail away", driving them formerly uninhabited/less desirable areas.

Dang that revisionist Berkeley Public School education. I was sure it was 1492.
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Postby DE FACTO » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:06 pm

BlueBirdPoof wrote:You're talking about reclaiming ferals or even "liberating" local livestock at the de facto fire sale, I hope. Good luck re-domesticating the Aurochs when a--it's extinct, and b--it was a european beast.


Huh? :shock:
even though...........
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Postby Kinetic II » Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:23 pm

I'm totally confused. I'm beginning to feel like Blue Bird Poof's avatar. Could we get this explained in more detail please?
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Postby PJ » Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:38 pm

BlueBirdPoof wrote:...I suggest buying heritage seeds every year--none of this hybred, frankenfood, hot-house flower, round-up ready crap...


Good luck. Humans have been genetically-altering food grains and other edible crops for thousands of years, mostly by making hybrids and selectively harvesting seed grain. Ditto domesticated animals. There's not much out there to eat that's "natural." Maybe some fungi or ocean fish.
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Postby BlueBirdPoof » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:35 pm

Kinetic II wrote:I'm totally confused. I'm beginning to feel like Blue Bird Poof's avatar. Could we get this explained in more detail please?


Sorry about that.

Most of the wild stock from which we domesticated our familier farm animals is extinct or near extinct. My guess is that if people survive such an event then at least some farm animals will come through and those will become your breeding stock. But we've lost our chance with the original ancestral cows (for example.)

As for seeds, PJ is right, it is all hybred now. The problem with hybreds is that they are created yearly by seed concerns and while they produce a nice crop, they don't interbreed true so the next year after the disaster and after you've planted and harvested your crop, you don't know what you're gonna end up with--and Burpee wont be around to provide you with more. There are concerns that sell "Heritage" seeds--non-hybreds. Those are the real tomotoes available at Farmer's (not super) Markets, and those are better for replanting. But you've got to buy them every year, because of the shelf life of these things. Then throw them out when you buy the next batch, until the disaster arrives.

For some of the domestication issues, I recommend Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond--it's a major arguement in his main thesis. I also learned things from lessor books (who's author's names don't clutter up my mind) like The Convenent of the Wild and . . . Well, maybe the titles aren't even cluttering up my mind either. And I suppose that Permaculture as an agricultural style might be the way to go. Moleson (sp?) is the big founder on that, although he's apparently now crazy. But you could search on the term.

Me--I'm too lazy--looted cans until it's all too painful, then improvised oblivion.
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Postby KellY » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:59 pm

I'm rather fond of the Church of the Sub-genius's advice for the coming apocolypse: while everyone else is stockpiling food and figuring out how to grow it, you stock ammo. That way you get their food. Also, you should get ahold of as much acid, pcp, cocaine, and any other mind-twisting and/or addictive drugs as you can, to create your fanatical army of doped-up killers with.

I'd avoid heroin though. Who wants an army that just wants to take a nap?
"Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anybody's feelings?" -Diogenes
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Postby DE FACTO » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:03 pm

KellY wrote:I'm rather fond of the Church of the Sub-genius's advice for the coming apocolypse: while everyone else is stockpiling food and figuring out how to grow it, you stock ammo. That way you get their food. Also, you should get ahold of as much acid, pcp, cocaine, and any other mind-twisting and/or addictive drugs as you can, to create your fanatical army of doped-up killers with.

I'd avoid heroin though. Who wants an army that just wants to take a nap?


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