How Fuel efficient is your car?

All things outside of Burning Man.

What is your gas mileage"

Under 5 mpg (I funded 9/11)
3
1%
5-10 mpg (Dicked by Cheney)
5
2%
10-20 mpg (quasi-militant Green Peacer)
64
30%
20-30 mpg (I Dicked Cheney)
45
21%
30-40 mpg (I don't need no stinken war)
51
24%
40-60 mpg (Everyone Love's Me)
28
13%
60+ mpg (Only the Gods do better)
8
4%
I only use human powered vehicles!
11
5%
 
Total votes : 215

Postby Box Burner » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:34 am

I get great milage! Start at the top of the hill and go all the way to the bottom without using a drop. :D

Image

Just wish I didn't have to push it back up the hill again. :D
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Postby BAS » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:45 pm

can't sit still wrote:"P.S.: Doesn't ANYONE make a diesel station wagon these days?!!"

If you want a little one, there's the diesel Jeep. If you want a big one, there is the Sprinter van. If you want an old one , there are plenty of MBZ wagons running around. Check Craigslist. There are tons in the bay area.
I haven't seen any new diesel wagons. The MBZ will run forever.
I put one of their turbo-diesels in my pickup. Wagons have become pase because of mini-vans. I doubt that anyone will build one soon. There are diesel utility vehicles like MBZ and Land Cruiser.

Good luck on your search, but I think that you'll have to get an old MBZ and refurbish it.
Dan


I haven't seen any used ones for sale the areas of Wisconsin I tend to frequent. For the around town driving I do, I prefer a small station wagon to a mini-van-- the fuel mileage tends to be better and the ride more comfortable.

Is the MBZ a Mercades? I am not familar with the abbreviation. What I am hoping to do is get a small diesel station wagon and a diesel school bus and convert both of them over to biodiesel/wvo (and the school bus over to a camper).


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Postby can't sit still » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:54 pm

Bas, I just did a search[craigslist] for a diesel mercedes[MBZ] I only found 1 in the whole state[240D] of Wisconsin
You might have to come west to get one,,,or New York. I've seen a few Jap diesel wagons too[nissan]
The school bus should be easier.
Jf you want something really nice, check out VIXEN. Motorhome with a BMW diesel engine. 2.4 liter 20something mpg.

Try to run "yellow grease" You lose too much BTU content when you take out the glycerine,,,to make biodiesel.
Dan

Post script
Bas, since you aren't real familiar with Mercedes, I'll give you a quick rundown.
4 cyl.240D...62 hp
5 cyl 300D...77 hp
5 cyl 300D...120 hp with turbo
6 cyl 300D....150 hp [all turbo]
The wagon model is called a 300TD [touring]
Some had turbos, some didn't

Don't buy a puegot diesel
Volvo diesel should be OK
Nissan and Toyota are Ok
They sell lots of used step vans with 4 cyl diesels [Frito Lay etc]
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:26 am

can't sit still wrote:

Don't buy a puegot diesel
Volvo diesel should be OK
Nissan and Toyota are Ok
They sell lots of used step vans with 4 cyl diesels [Frito Lay etc]


I seem to remember Isuzu used to make a pretty bulletproof series of Diesel Cars (maybe the the I-mark?) years ago that ran like iron. Had a friend with one, she drove the wheels off of it.

Both Volvo and MBz are in the commercial diesel market, so they have experience. I think Volvo is now part of the GM hegemony, which can't be a bad thing, however I have a personal thing against Detroit Diesels...

And I can go a bit further... Don't buy a Peugeot ANYTHING! >grins<

bb
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Postby BAS » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:14 am

Actually, I think I recall seeing Volvo as part of the Ford ads wherein Bill Ford tells everyone how great Fords are for fighting high gas prices (or some such thing :roll: ).

I am having much more luck finding inexpensive school buses (just need to figure out where I would keep/work on it!)

I haven't been able to look as much for the car.

YIKES! I need to be back in training in about one minute! :shock:


TTYL,


B.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:19 am

Yep - think you're right. For some reason thought it was GM. Maybe it's Saab that GM owns. Can't keep them all straight anymore...

Serious Question - anyone know how to lean out the carb on an 85 chevy 350 carb? It runs on the rich side anyway, and when I hit the hill I can watch the fuel gauge drop... I know there's gotta be a way, but Google isn't helping...

bb

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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:28 am

If Gale Banks Engineering doesn't make performance parts for it, I'm not interested. As for Detroit Diesel in my experience their products suck. Unreliable pieces of junk....
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Postby can't sit still » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:28 pm

BBS, you didn't say 2bbl or 4 bbl. Earlier carbs had idle mix screws that were adjustable. Later ones were fixed.These controlled idle only. They had a set of jets[orofices] that controlled mid-range.. In a 4 bbl, the high rpm was fed by moving needles that were suspended in jets. You can lower the needles or put in smaller jets. it's not a job for the unmechanicly inclined.

If you want better performance, [you do], then check with a speed shop. they can give you all sorts of stuff to get better effeciency.

Simple stuff like a recurve kit for your distributor is cheap. Water injection is a good idea too. It will let you run cheap gas without pinging.
It's a good match for a recurved distributor,,,which might cause a little pinging [preignition]

Most cars have an air cleaner that is inadequate. I stack 2 elements together in trucks.
If your chevy is single exhaust, that hurts breathing and mileage.

There's tons more that you can do depending on your engine. PM if you want specifics or ask at a speed shop.

The old Detroit diesels [53, 71 and 92]were heavy, torquey and noisy.
The newer series 60 is better.
General motors bought Isuzu[or vice-versa]. The new chevy PU trucks have an isuzu engine. Isuzu has been making trucks longer than GM. Their trucks are WAY better than GM.
The old Isuzu I mark was good but rare. I also didn't mention the Isuzu pickup disel because BAS was asking about Wagons.

School buses are good but heavy. It's hard to squeeze out much mileage.
That's why I mentioned the Vixen. $$$$$

VW seems to be at the top of the curve for diesel engineering.
The high compression turbo-diesel is supposed to be the most fuel efficient [common] engine.
A loaded Boeing 747 gets 100 mpg per passenger.
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Postby can't sit still » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:30 am

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Postby can't sit still » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:52 pm

March 7, 2007




Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer


















--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tools

- PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION

- MORE OF THIS WEEK'S OPINIONS



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The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America ; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota , the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury , Ontario . This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario , becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,â€
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Postby helitack » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:57 pm

So does this mean I can feel relieved that I drive an 85 Suburban with over 300,000 miles weighing in at 5680 lbs and gets 15 to 16 mpg at 55 mph?
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Postby can't sit still » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:33 pm

Helitack, it takes a lot of energy to produce a car. The longer that you drive it the farther it "spreads" the original energy investment.
I don't really know at what point the energy amortization catches up to a given mileage figure.
Hypothetically, you should drive it forever if you aren't going to replace it with something that gets better mileage.
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Postby dr.placebo » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:43 pm

That Prius-bashing piece from CNW Marketing has been debunked in a number of places, so I'm going to keep this short.

The report is full of bogus assumptions and faulty math. $3.25 per mile over a span of 100,000 miles? $325,000??? Not credible, folks.

This crap comes from a MARKETING group, not from a research group.

Disinformation for hire.
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Postby BoxaRox » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:48 pm

Burn it quick or someone else will.
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Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:22 pm

Best point:

A Prius is only efficient in stop and go traffic to make it feisible.

If you live in the country it just wasted money, and you would do better with a gas combustible engine.

try a 1.2 litre engine if you don't have to do 55 in 6 secs.

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Postby can't sit still » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:45 pm

I didn't know about the BS with the prius. I have heard that the mileage numbers weren't accurate.
Now that GM is facing bankruptcy, they have decided to bring back their electric car. It's a plug-in with a small aux engine to recharge if needed.
They certainly have the experience to build it.
Since short hops in a car with a cold engine create disproportionate amounts of smog, the GM car should make a big difference to those who only drive close-by their house.
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Re: How Fuel efficient is your car?

Postby Glittering Clitoris » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:46 pm

HughMungus wrote:
Apollonaris Zeus wrote:Talk is cheap, what MPG are you getting?

AIIZ


An even more important question is: why do you drive so far to work? I drive an SUV but I'd bet I use less gas in a year than anyone else here who drives to work daily.


But driving around the block to get to work is lame!
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Postby mdmf007 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:29 pm

What I drive to work now - 51 MPG - They claim 55+ on their website and brochures, but this is what I get with my driving habits
Image


What I used to drive daily to work - 7.2 MPG
Image


5751.13$
What I save a year in Diesel. I average 55,000 miles a year in town, and another 20K mobilized in heavy gear. Cant do anything about those miles as we need the response gear to work, but I dont need to drive 5 tons of truck to walmart, lunch, and too meetings across the state.
This was a hard change for me to make. I grew up in large trucks. I still have the truck but now use it when I need it. Every year our company buys new trucks as a cost savings measure. We decided to keep them for the duration of the 3 years, and bought smaller more efficient vehicles for daily driving. Best part - when four people commute in 2 of these things. One parking spot will hold two of them!!!

(all pictures from their respective manufacturers, - models and years accurate though)
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Postby gyre » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:45 pm

I'm told the battery pack is $7,000.
Any bets on how many get replaced when they fail?

An electric bike is practical now but I don't think cars are.
I advocate ultralight streamlined conventional powered cars.
75-100 mpg should be worth the trouble.

You still need a suburban when you want to move a lot of stuff.

If things are built to last or be updated cheaply, we could save much more.
I'd rather have something reliable rather than something efficient that won't live 75,000 miles.
Actually, that's how I choose cars now.
An ultralight would need to be designed for maintenance.
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Postby can't sit still » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:02 am

You can debate "peak oil" all you want, but if Cheny said that we're going to have a 50 million barrel a day shortfall by 2010, you can pretty much count on it.
Supposedly that's why they aren't building any new refineries.
No new crude.
Peak oil will get here if the PTB say that it will.
Finland pays the equivalent of $7 a gallon [old statistic] Thay also have 20% unemployment.
I think that you could reasonably expect gas to go to 6 bucks a gallon in 3 years. It partly depends on how bad the dollar falls [continues to fall].
Commuting habits will change. Cars will get lighter. Traffic accidents will kill proportionately more,,, The difference between crashing a Navigator and a Geo.
The complexity of cars is going up to where no one can maintain them.
They have to be replaced.
Fewer Americans will be able to afford the luxury of owning a car. The highways will be utilised more for goods transportation and less for people transportation.
We'll become just like lots of other countries.
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Postby MikeVDS » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:44 am

I don't think the current model of judging a car by MPG is complete. If you're one person who drives a SUV, then you're being wasteful, but if you're a family of 7 taking the SUV typically when you have 6+ and possibly extra cargo you're doing better than if you loaded down a couple poor Priuses. This is why I'm always urked by people wanting to tax specific vehicles (or ranges of vehicles). If you want to tax people so they are further encouraged to use less gas, just tax the gas so people can best decide how they can conserve.
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Postby helitack » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:52 am

...they will only take my 'Burb when they pry my cold, dead fingers from the steering wheel...
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Postby joel the ornery » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:12 am

helitack wrote:So does this mean I can feel relieved that I drive an 85 Suburban with over 300,000 miles weighing in at 5680 lbs and gets 15 to 16 mpg at 55 mph?


actually, that is pretty good mileage for that monster.
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Postby Lassen Forge » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:46 am

joel the ornery wrote:
helitack wrote:So does this mean I can feel relieved that I drive an 85 Suburban with over 300,000 miles weighing in at 5680 lbs and gets 15 to 16 mpg at 55 mph?


actually, that is pretty good mileage for that monster.


My '85 Silverado 4wd 3/4 ton gets 18 when it's running right... or 14 when its running wrong.

I remember the old VW diesel wagons that got 50+ to the gallon... drove one as a rental for the week. Cost all of 2 1/2 gallons... Too bad they were so mechanically fucked up!!If it weren't for the battery waste I wouldn't mind one of those Zap's, tho... after all, they *are* a Mercedes product... (You know, they *do* make bigger ones...)

bb
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Postby gyre » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:24 pm

VWs can be converted to anything, ford, honda, toyota, rotary..
KEP has the stuff to do it.

http://www.kennedyeng.com/
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Postby gyre » Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:29 pm

I took a photo of someone's double length vw van at 2005.
If you section two, you can make one very short and one very long one.
I saw an art car (houston???).
VW bug with a reverse bug on top like an image in water.

I've tried to go to the houston event, but the morons won't provide any information.
So, I just went went to burning man.
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Postby Apollonaris Zeus » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:23 pm

mdmf007 wrote:What I drive to work now - 51 MPG - They claim 55+ on their website and brochures, but this is what I get with my driving habits
Image




hey 007, You the Man!

What kind of cash was it?

AIIZ
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Postby unjonharley » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:55 pm

I just got a Zappy3 Pro (stand up model)..13 mph up to 24 mile range..Put a clock on the water heater..Cut my monthly bill by twenty dollar..Have all tube, compact,LED or 12 volt through out the house..The LED is for passage light..Planning to install some light tubes in dark spots in the house..So I figure I have off set the cost of recharging the Zappy..

And the city buses can pick me up..
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Postby BigCock » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:18 pm

gyre wrote:I advocate ultralight streamlined conventional powered cars.
75-100 mpg should be worth the trouble.


The diesel Golfs you can get in Europe run for fricken ever at over 75 mpg. Feed it with biodiesel and you're as eco-groovy as you can possibly be. And why don't you see them all over California? Particulate standards.
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Postby mdmf007 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:39 pm

Apollonaris Zeus wrote:



hey 007, You the Man!

What kind of cash was it?

AIIZ[/quote]

They wante 22-27K in the US. I was able to pick up a demo unit for 15K. As soon as trhese little buggers are EPA approved in the US for mainstream sales they will drop the price like rocks. Right now they are canadian models imported and emissions converted at great cost.
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