case studies

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I think you are all full of shit.

Postby Captain Fuckwit » Tue May 03, 2005 3:11 am

I think you are all full of shit.
cf
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Postby Kinetic IV » Tue May 03, 2005 7:26 am

CF, I think you need to take advantage of the edit button on your last post. While sometimes your past approaches were a little rough, you did contribute to the discussion and helped get things changed which means your opinions will be listened to. But if you post stuff like that last post, all that hard earned credibility goes poof. Think about it...
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Postby Isotopia » Tue May 03, 2005 9:29 am

Must..... resist.....

...urge...

to....reply....
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Postby emily sparkle » Tue May 03, 2005 10:37 pm

gang,

remember, this is the case studies thread. take the sniping elsewhere. thanks.
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Thread Police

Postby Captain Fuckwit » Fri May 06, 2005 4:44 pm

emily sparkle wrote:gang, remember, this is the case studies thread. take the sniping elsewhere. thanks. (05May03)

Emily, your post is actually the most disruptive to the flow of this thread! A emergent "thread police" always has a chilling effect on the natural rhythm of BBS threads. It is presumptuous of you to ask us to "take the sniping elsewhere", even when you are the Eplaya Admin. I understand your motive but you are intervening much too soon! There always exists a place for intervention, naturally; But that intervention should only come about when a thread has become absurdly off-track.

Yes, this is the Case Studies thread. This is one of my areas of interest. This is a case in and of itself. I'm asking you not to meddle so quickly into policing the thread. It is understandable that people report perceived infractions of the TOS in this thread and you answer them. But "case studies" in the English language means the study of cases and not, so much so, the "police blotter"- that which "Case Studies" has recently been fuctioning as: It is 'you guys' who have actually been "off-topic" for some time now.

I suppose the "sniping" you are referring to begins with my message (upthread)- "I think you are all full of shit.". Well, this is my position in eight words or less. I'm not mincing words. I am being unequivocal and this serves my purpose: Knowing how emotionally tightly strung the eplaya audience tends to be, I'm breaking my message into two parts, knowing full well that the users won't bother to read part two if they can't emotionally get past part one. So I just give out part one and let 'em chew on that for a few days. I am anticipating my readers' intelligence to surmise what I might be referring to when I say "I think you are all full of shit.". I might not even need to post part two if part one might be signal enough of what might be 'wrong' within other users' posts, prompting my comment.

Please allow things to play themselves out longer and see if we aren't going to stay on topic on our own. I've said "I think you are all full of shit.". And while the jackals of Eplaya have their conniptions over this non-P.C. comment, I'll work on formulating the message explaing the Why of "I think you are all full of shit.". My thoughts on the matter can often occupy several full length pages in my mind, however, the message itself, posted on Eplaya, cannot be any longer than a few paragraphs- the attention span of the average reader. Choice words have to be formulated. (To imply that I don't know how to stay on topic is an insult.) And Isotopia will snipe because that is her nature. Kinetic will offer unsolicited advice as is his nature. It is part of the natural rhythm for this collection of users. Sometimes, you just have to let things play out, as untidy as it all might seem.

Sincerely yours,
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Re: Thread Police

Postby spectabillis » Sat May 07, 2005 12:36 pm

Captain Fuckwit wrote:It is presumptuous of you to ask us to "take the sniping elsewhere", even when you are the Eplaya Admin. I understand your motive but you are intervening much too soon! There always exists a place for intervention, naturally; But that intervention should only come about when a thread has become absurdly off-track.


Its not presumptuous. This thread has been a place of increased hostilities, and the people involved have an established history of hostility twords each other.
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Postby Isotopia » Sat May 07, 2005 5:24 pm

This thread has been a place of increased hostilities, and the people involved have an established history of hostility twords each other


Neither of which addresses the point (which might be continued over in another thread)

Oh, and being pre-emptive is not moderating.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon May 09, 2005 10:14 am

Wow. What I just learned. If you plonk someone with your initials and the person you've plonked gets scolded, you might think it's you.
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Crossposting

Postby sputnik » Mon May 09, 2005 6:16 pm

It's going to be alright.
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Postby emily sparkle » Mon May 09, 2005 6:52 pm

I deleted the ones in Politics and Experiences and left the one in Share.

Thanks.

:) emily
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Postby sputnik » Mon May 09, 2005 6:55 pm

Cool. I PMd him and explained about xposting.
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Postby emily sparkle » Mon May 09, 2005 6:57 pm

thanks!
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Postby spectabillis » Tue May 10, 2005 6:19 am

Isotopia wrote:Oh, and being pre-emptive is not moderating.


In a way that might be true, but if sniping comments continue after such requests, it takes pre-emptive out of the picture.
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Re: Thread Police

Postby sputnik » Tue May 10, 2005 8:09 am

Captain Fuckwit wrote:the "police blotter"- that which "Case Studies" has recently been fuctioning as: It is 'you guys' who have actually been "off-topic" for some time now.


I have to agree that I don't think this is the best place to report such things as x-posting. It just seemed to be happening here. Should we simply PM an admin?
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Re: Thread Police

Postby spectabillis » Tue May 10, 2005 1:31 pm

sputnik wrote:I have to agree that I don't think this is the best place to report such things as x-posting. It just seemed to be happening here. Should we simply PM an admin?


Could do that.

ePlaya Forum Index -> ePlaya Feedback has 3 subtopics: Policy Discussion, Feature Requests, and Bug Reports.

Unfortunately this kind of feedback does not fit well under any of those so I guess thats why most people choose this thread. Crossposting, commerce... maybe case studies is chosen because many people dont know what the policy is and wish to discuss it?
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Postby Kinetic IV » Tue May 10, 2005 2:09 pm

I thought those kinds of things were put in case studies to allow for discussion of any admin actions, to see if the CG's and TOS need to be updated, etc. Each situation may be different, and any discussion of the individual cases / actions taken would be a case study. So imho it seems to fit.
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Postby emily sparkle » Tue May 10, 2005 2:09 pm

you are welcome to pm the admin account or email eplaya (at-symbol)burningman(dot)com with these requests... i don't think case studies is a terrible place to post these things (they are usually cases where action is taken)
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Postby spectabillis » Tue May 10, 2005 4:46 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:I thought those kinds of things were put in case studies to allow for discussion of any admin actions, to see if the CG's and TOS need to be updated, etc. Each situation may be different, and any discussion of the individual cases / actions taken would be a case study. So imho it seems to fit.


Yeah, seems to. But there are certain times where it's pretty obvious, like crossposting, that there will not be much discussion.
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Defacto Censorship

Postby Captain Fuckwit » Thu May 12, 2005 2:44 pm

This post comes 46 hours after the post above it. (Compare the time stamps.) This testifies that instead of a robust thread with lively discussion, we're experiencing nothing at all, in the last 46 hours. I testify that Admin warnings do more harm than help to the life of a thread. We hear ...nothing but crickets... here in Case Studies. Until somebody advises on a crossposting somewhere...

Case Study: Defacto Censorship:

emily sparkle wrote:gang, remember, this is the case studies thread. take the sniping elsewhere. thanks. (05May03)

spectabillis wrote:
Isotopia wrote:Oh, and being pre-emptive is not moderating.
In a way that might be true, but if sniping comments continue after such requests, it takes pre-emptive out of the picture.(05May10)

On this page, in the two messages quoted here, the Admin's "pre-emptive suggestion" and Spectabillis' equivocating hint, interpretively about an existence of consequences for not heeding an Admin request, create an environment of fear. It essentially becomes instantaneous group-think. Warnings that involve possible future punative damages create an environment of defacto censorship: People censor themselves more than is natural.

People do know how to hold their tongue because they know what is worthwhile to discuss versus what is just causing static. Spectabillis' comment (upthread) is, I feel, in and of itself, catty. His [post] is sniping-about-sniping, hinting that we are fortunate to endure this pre-emptive commenting, else unknown consequence- Which is a really cowardly and sycophantic view of things. Yet, I don't retaliate via a post with these feelings to point out his hypocrisy because that would be running thin of substance: I want a relatively tight thread as much as anyone. If I couldn't just swallow it and felt emotionally compelled to tell him, I would have taken it to Private Messages. (I only reveal my personal feelings about Spec's post here-and-now to illustrate my point.)

There's nothing wrong with someone suggesting to "take the sniping elsewhere". But if there is any sense of Admin authority attached to that message, or a hint at punative action, then the message becomes a cancer to the thread: While the Admin or the Admin-Crony is trying (and failing) to control someone else's behavior, witnesses to the warnings become intimidated against contributing any messages at all, lest they themselves be misunderstood and excommunicated.

Point being, I may never dissuade the Admins or Moderators away from any possible righteousness or justification they feel about their post(s): But if that post(s) contains any hint of punative action or Admin authority within them, it chills the room to an undesirable level via defacto censorship. If this concept can be grasped and mastered by the Admin, the Admin advances a level at good Admin-ship.

Sincerely yours,
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Postby Isotopia » Thu May 12, 2005 6:15 pm

I'll buy into that reasoning.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Thu May 12, 2005 6:23 pm

Plain English translation please.

I honestly don't give a flying rat's azz(sp) if you dislike me weighing in with an opinion, you're getting it anyway. I don't see what the fuss is about here. A simple request was made to keep things civilized between Badger and I. There was no threat of Spectabillis doing anything, it was an honest, well intended request. That's it. My take on reading that post of yours is that you are reading things into this that quite simply don't exist.

Spectabillis is also a MODERATOR, not an ADMIN. Emily is an admin. Bex is an admin. There is a huge difference. The moderator position was put in place here to calm things down, just like control rods do in a nuclear reactor before things get too hot to handle..they moderate the reaction to keep it under control. He was doing exactly what the community has asked moderators on this board to do and he calmed down a situation. Instead of being ripped, he deserves a thank you instead.

Anyone reading anything more into this needs to step back and take a deep breath. Not everything's a conspiracy, not everything is censorship ready to run amuk. It can be as simple as people caring about other people and they want to see them try and get along. Perhaps it's the spirit of community...or gasp...that elusive playa spirit at work. Hmmm...maybe I'm the one hallucinating here. But I don't think so.
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Re: Defacto Censorship

Postby spectabillis » Thu May 12, 2005 10:36 pm

Kinetic IV wrote:He was doing exactly what the community has asked moderators on this board to do and he calmed down a situation. Instead of being ripped, he deserves a thank you instead.


Actually, its not a rip. I guess some could take it that way, but I usually dont becasue different people express themselves differently in different situations, and many times a persons message can be distracting by emotional wording.

Captain Fuckwit wrote:His [post] is sniping-about-sniping, hinting that we are fortunate to endure this pre-emptive commenting, else unknown consequence- Which is a really cowardly and sycophantic view of things.


Ok, but that was not my intention, and thats not my view of things.

Point being, I may never dissuade the Admins or Moderators away from any possible righteousness or justification they feel about their post(s): But if that post(s) contains any hint of punative action or Admin authority within them, it chills the room to an undesirable level via defacto censorship. If this concept can be grasped and mastered by the Admin, the Admin advances a level at good Admin-ship.


I understand that. I think one of the largest percieved differences between an org person, admin, moderator, community member... is authority of action. Strange thing is, in the case of any serious punative actions it will not happen without several people discussing it with feedback from the people invovled. For example, no one will get banned without the moderators, admins, and an org person discussing and agreeing to it.

Even if that happens, hopefully people will have the ability to make thier case and be heard by the larger community. Just my personal opinion: thats whats most important.
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Postby Kinetic IV » Sun May 15, 2005 10:16 am

This appears to be an unintentional double thread creation:

viewtopic.php?t=8655

viewtopic.php?t=8656
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Postby emily sparkle » Sun May 15, 2005 11:05 am

duplicate removed. thanks.

:)
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon May 23, 2005 3:52 pm

http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?p=159449#159449
eww! eww! make it go away! make it stop! ban it! eww! yuck!!
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Postby emily sparkle » Mon May 23, 2005 3:58 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?p=159449#159449
eww! eww! make it go away! make it stop! ban it! eww! yuck!!


i deleted the commerce posting "WhiteStart.com - At Home Custom Fitted Teeth Whitening Kits!" and sent a warning to the thread owner.

thanks for letting me know.
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Duplicate posting

Postby sputnik » Mon May 23, 2005 6:47 pm

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Postby emily sparkle » Mon May 23, 2005 8:05 pm

thanks very much for giving him the pointer to the other thread. i've deleted the one with no responses.
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Postby blueniteowl » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:49 pm

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Postby emily sparkle » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:05 pm

duplicate removed. thanks.
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