case studies

We're doing it wrong...we know

Postby capjbadger » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:43 am

My bad. I should of given the url for his profile. Would of been a lot easier for you. :)

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Postby AntiM » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:23 am

Thanks ... yeah, people seem to think because I'm a mod I can fly through the users with ease ... nope. I can do fun stuff with posts, but I need just as much help finding them as y'all would do.
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Postby capjbadger » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:51 pm

Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

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Postby AntiM » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:11 am

I disagree, and as I said over in policy discussion, it's rideshare for stuff. Not like they're selling t-shirts.
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Postby gyre » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:26 am

I'm going to have to start selling those NO COMMERCE t-shirts.
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Postby AntiM » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:28 am

gyre wrote:I'm going to have to start selling those NO COMMERCE t-shirts.


Hehehe, not on eplaya, buddy!

Where's my fucking gift? I want a fucking No Commerce shirt!!!!
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Postby gyre » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:40 am

Somehow it just seems appropriate that the one thing the Souvenir Shop doesn't give away is the NO COMMERCE t-shirts.
It's only right, don't you think?

Off the playa, of course.
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Postby capjbadger » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:06 pm

AntiM wrote:I disagree, and as I said over in policy discussion, it's rideshare for stuff. Not like they're selling t-shirts.

Ok, I can see that. It just looked like a "Pay us to haul your shit" ad at first sniff. ;)

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Postby AntiM » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:50 pm

I also talked to them via PM, and they did this last year too. Kinda like the container shipments from the east coast. They lost money on it last year and would be happy to beak even.
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Postby Toolmaker » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:30 am

capjbadger wrote:
AntiM wrote:I disagree, and as I said over in policy discussion, it's rideshare for stuff. Not like they're selling t-shirts.

Ok, I can see that. It just looked like a "Pay us to haul your shit" ad at first sniff. ;)

Badger


It is a pay us tyo haul your shit commercial website. There are even different rates for different size bins than you pay after adding the various sized bins to your "shopping cart". I see nothing about gifting or breaking even.. in fact it looks really profitable considering the rates.
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Postby capjbadger » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:07 pm

Toolmaker wrote:
capjbadger wrote:
AntiM wrote:I disagree, and as I said over in policy discussion, it's rideshare for stuff. Not like they're selling t-shirts.

Ok, I can see that. It just looked like a "Pay us to haul your shit" ad at first sniff. ;)

Badger


It is a pay us tyo haul your shit commercial website. There are even different rates for different size bins than you pay after adding the various sized bins to your "shopping cart". I see nothing about gifting or breaking even.. in fact it looks really profitable considering the rates.

Hmm.. I have to agree. If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck, and smells like shit, it's a shitty duck.

My gut says this is on the wrong side of the fine line...

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Postby AntiM » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:32 pm

Paid rideshares for people fly here, why not paid rideshares for stuff? They're attending the event after all. No one flinches about the shipping container from New York, and that costs money; a BIG reason I didn't drop down on these folks. Same deal, just looser organization.

What, a professional looking site put you off? It's a good idea although I agree the area is grey. I'm more lenient because well, I have to decide and I don't think this is going to kill eplaya.

When the other mods weigh in there can be a lot more discussion, for the moment you have me.
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Postby capjbadger » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:02 pm

Relax AnitM. I think you're doing a great job. :) Honestly. *hug*

I guess the difference I see is the rideshares are people helping out people, while this seems to be a business. I don't recall if we allow Green Tortoise to advertise on here or not.

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Postby AntiM » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:22 pm

Thank you!

I don't think Green Tortoise needs to advertise.

Actually, jmdinn posted a lengthy and thoughtful reply in Share Resources, worth a look.

viewtopic.php?p=390816#390816

I began a commerce discussion thread over in policy discussion, please share thoughts and ideas!
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Postby capjbadger » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:06 am

Arrrggg!! Avast ye fucking fluffy bunny shirtcockers! Haul your drunken hairy fat ass out of our sight or prepare to receive a hot buttered hedgehog fired up your aft quarters!

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Postby AntiM » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:17 am

Thank you, got it.
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Postby mojo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:13 pm

This looks like commerce to me - although it is a request for funding for a theme camp. It is "selling" something.....

viewtopic.php?t=24776
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Postby gyre » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:37 pm

They started doing this in 2006 at least.
They are a real camp.
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Postby AntiM » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:58 pm

We've let it slide as a fundraiser before; this time it is only the link instead of the full raffle info. I was wondering how long it would be until someone said something.
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Postby Toolmaker » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:22 pm

Letting it slide only gave them the idea that they are "permitted" to engage in this seemingly forever now that there is a history of permitted commerce/sweepstakes posts.

I find it funny how we get alot of the same folks here trolling for cash or free tix year after year and many do not participate in the forum otherwise.

I tried to make a tasteful education experience for the user in the thread.
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Postby AntiM » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:11 pm

Plain and simple, if it is a legitimate fundraiser for an interactive camp, I won't say no outright. If you want a real witch hunt, that can be done, especially in Events and Regionals. But I'd rather let a few things slide now and again than be a complete bitch-asshole. No commerce is an ideal, and I'm not the one who wants to say, no and no again and again to the grey areas. I'm easy going. If you want a hardball mod, that's not me. I'm a terrible cop except when it comes to direct sales.

How idealistic does this community want to be? Because the rideshares would stop, the let's go in on water would stop, the containers would stop, even the trade an oven mitt for a ticket would come under intense scrutiny ... all of which are good and useful things difficult to organize elsewhere. Because nine times out of ten, when I contact burners about commerce, they say sorry and the thread is pulled long before most of the community sees it. I allow a small fraction through because I have no problem with what is obviously not raising money for personal or commercial use.

This is why I'd love a "roped off" fundraiser section, not even plain commerce as has been considered, but a we're doing "XYZ" so we can have a theme camp. That way no one has to go in if they don't want to.

It is not a slippery slope which leads to selling our souls to Wal-Mart. There's a reason the mods are here and human. I don't want to be so rigid that eplaya becomes completely useless except for ego-stroking old-timers (I include myself in that group).

Next question: how many complaints does it take to countermand a mod decision? And from whom? Do I listen to one person? Two? Three? I usually ask the other mods for input, and then we talk about it. And do the people who haunt eplaya and don't show up to the event, do we consider their complaints?

That's why I'm easy-going, because this is complicated and the hard choices ... they don' t have to be. They can be; but be careful what you wish for.
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Postby mojo » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:46 pm

I think that what bothered me is that this feels like "on playa" commerce - buy a couch for your camp and have it delivered there, as opposed to a fundraiser outside of the festival.

But I'm voting with whatever the mods think.
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Postby AntiM » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:56 pm

That's funny, I thought of it as an off playa fundraiser in raffle form. I suppose a lot lies in the definition we set up for ourselves.

I bumped the fundraiser discussion over in policy discussion, since it is so closely linked to commerce. The more discussion the merrier.
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Postby EB » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:29 pm

Irony. You're soaking in it.
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Postby EB » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:37 pm

My $.02 on couch/raffle:

It passed the sniff test with me since 1.) the precedent for raffles (ticket for oven mitt, etc.) had been established and 2.) it clearly works within the Burning Man "universe."

Winning "A couch for a week" shows forethought by somebody who "gets" the event.

I vote to leave it be.
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Postby EB » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:44 pm

viewtopic.php?t=24785

Same guy hawking his carport covers
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Postby AntiM » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:42 pm

Thanks. Got him, sent PM, deleted or edited all five posts.


Were I paranoid, I'd think this was a test.
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Postby gyre » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:48 pm

Antim, the Buffy of eplaya.

Got to run to kroger and walmart now to pick up camping stuff.


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Postby AntiM » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:55 pm

Oooh, you said MalWart!
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Postby Toolmaker » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:25 pm

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