So what's the deal on this eplaya summit?

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Postby Kinetic II » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:04 pm

Yes, I'm sending mixed signals. I see merit to both sides of this argument just like I do to the Plonk / No-Plonk argument. Right now I'm tossing out things to inspire discussion where it was limited before. And I'm doing so for the benefit of the silent audience who pays attention but may not post. It's all about getting ideas out in the open, and the more the better. I'm using myself and this ID's built up negativity to act as a lightning rod and get people to speak up. And it's working. We need ideas. I did the same thing with the moderator idea and now the ORG as those who attended the conference call last night know, made it clear that they feel the community doesn't want moderators. My approach is unorthodox, but it's worked once. Until it fails, I'm staying the course. And with that, I have work to do. </soapbox>
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:08 pm

Man....Mr. K. that box will flatten one day.

It's rather delicate you know.
even though...........
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Postby nipples » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:15 pm

Back to the "plonk".

Though it is true that any person may excercise retraint & use an "internal" or "avoidance" plonk by not reading a posters post but scrolling past it, there are cases where a threads author is immediately beset by negativity, generally stalked by the same people. TAke Alice, for instance. She is a bright spot in my day. I LOVE reading Alice. She has SOMEHOW managed to remain above the fray in most cases, but I am nearly certain that she, or anyone reading the crap attacks is tainted/infected by negativism. If I were to PLONK the attacker, I would not see them, and they are not lost to anyone else. WHOA! But what about Alice* & her possible response, & the fact that I'd "lost" the continuity of knowing what may have triggered it. So what! My choice! PLUS, it is possible & quite likely that SHE would plonk her detractors, & be able to write as though there was no problem in the world, unaffected by what she does not want to be affected by... so I'd eventually (possibly) not have my dear "Alices'" purity tainted, and anyone whom does not want to read her can PLONK her, too.

Oh! But what if she were being slammed for "behavior" that needs "modification", and she had plonked the hopeful steward of all that should be made right in "Alices'" head? FUCK EM! If it is a huge problem, let the admin contact the person wearing earplugs...or trust that people not yet plonked would get through.

The PLONK option denied does not guarantee the would be PLONKER is GOING to read "offensive" posts, but it would make it a likelyhood. Is that desirable? I do not know. As a societal "tool", subjecting yin to yang does subdue both..... tempering.. etc. Not my camel... not my board.... I'll shut up in ... umm... four paragraphs & one notation.

Personally, there are days (and weeks) where I would prefer to have a DO NOT PLONK ONLY these/this person. Meaning that I'd see only ME being not plonked. Rest of you can sod off. Seriously! Sometimes I want to write (like i dance) like i just do not care... and I think the quality of my writing (and dancing) is in that way improved.

So anyways, I know for a fact that I would use the plonk option sometimes, and that I would be a more steady writer with it. Somedays I cannot write something of "beauty" if I read about only ugly, or read people responding to people that are being ugly (that day), and I bet there would be a lot less people being infected with ugly-by-proxy (in-adfinum).

Yes, it does become a choice thing, and people can look away or go away if they do not like looking at ugly, but you know what? With that phylosophy, the only peeps you'll keep are those whom like looking at ugly... so long as the trolls are in charge that is.

Lastly, remember the frequent poster/post quality to count ratio deal? Somedays maybe you want to cut back on 30 posts.. plonk someone. 60? plonk two. Come December you can shoot a cannon down the halls of this place anyways, and will read ANYONE . Plus, in January, EVERYTHING goes into an archive, and we get to start over with a new sheet of paper. Nothing personal. Just the way it is.

*the name Alice used only as a current case study. my apologies to her if it has caused stigmata.
Last edited by nipples on Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby precipitate » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:18 pm

> in January, EVERYTHING goes into an archive, and we get to start over
> with a new sheet of paper.

I could be wrong about this, but I don't believe the plan is to archive
arbitrarily based on a date the way the old system worked.
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Postby Kinetic II » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:20 pm

Yeah, I know.
This has really tapped me out, I have a lot of things going on. This is actually a very pleasant diversion from having to decide about hospice care for a grandparent and job stress, on top of burying an uncle this week who was my legal guardian for 3-4 years. It's been a tough week. So now that I've went into TMI, instead of asking for sympathy, I channeled the energy here and into other things to make something positive come out of it. And with that, the soapbox belongs to someone else. I'm shellshocked and done for a bit.

At least it's not so much of a bitch fest, I'm seeing some good counter thoughts that others watching the thread will pick up on. I've accomplished something.
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Postby Rob the Wop » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:00 pm

Plonk, plonk, plonk.
Who's there?

I want my plonk button. Must remove threads AND posts of the plonkee. There are only two people that I would use it on, but only because of the sheer number of useless threads and posts. If they're posting simply without saying anything, what use is it on a DISCUSSION board. I don't want to scroll past 8 fucking useless threads to see those I want. If they want to say something, fine- I'll read it. If they are posting just periods or empty discussions for others to fill out, without caring or contributing, you could write a simple Bot to do the same damn thing.
The other, other white meat.
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Plonk

Postby precipitate » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:13 pm

One of the concerns expressed last night re: plonk was the worry that
some people who were initially, or briefly, clueless would get plonked and
their later valuable contributions would be missed. As a possible foil for
this scenario, it was proposed that your plonks would be good for x days,
after which you'd be notified to renew.

While I see why someone might have this concern, I have a couple of
comments (and yes, once again, these are my opinion).

- Plonk is a personal thing. It's me controlling my experience. If I don't
want to see posts by a particular person, and that choice doesn't affect
anyone else, I'm wondering why it's a bad thing.

- I'm an adult. I'm perfectly capable of reviewing my plonk list periodically
on my own. Chances are that if someone I've decided to ignore starts
contributing, I'll notice because of others' responses to their posts and
I'll get curious and check out what's going on. I don't need a nag agent
to remind me to review stuff. Then again, I don't see any harm in a nag
agent either.

- There are only three people I'd plonk, and one of them as far as I know
hasn't even registered on the new eplaya. Personally, I don't plonk
people easily. They have to be a real ass, and resistant to suggestions
on how they might improve their online demeanor, before I write them
off. But maybe that's just me and most people plonk rampantly. I dunno.
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Postby DE FACTO » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:17 pm

Hey I'm a part of the 'me too' club.

I want my plonk button so I don't have to use it and others can use it on me.

If they are posting just periods or empty discussions for others to fill out, without caring or contributing, you could write a simple Bot to do the same damn thing.


(I have mastered the art of confusing everyone without a single sentence.)

Things like this allow me to remain a mistery.
It allows those who want to know what I'm thinking when I'm thinkng and why I'm thinking, (now is'nt that funny....I know someone is just waiting to say something behind that one.) what it is that i'm thinking and PM me to confirm if that's what i was thinking. Or what i was thinking at the time.

Soooo, now that I've confused most everyone here, I am going to keep on topic and ask for the plonker to remain anonymous.

In thinking that is. :twisted:
even though...........
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Postby Archantael » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:25 pm

K, no excuses quit posting and move. Do it your way and ignore them. Remember the Loading Dock set, you can do anything you put your mind to.
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Re: Plonk

Postby jamison » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:33 pm

precipitate wrote:- Plonk is a personal thing. It's me controlling my experience. If I don't
want to see posts by a particular person, and that choice doesn't affect
anyone else, I'm wondering why it's a bad thing.


Exactly! the ability to block another burner lets me have some control over my experience, without limiting them in any way. I see the eplaya in much the same manner as the Black Rock City. Everyone is free to say what they want. In Black Rock City I can just walk away from something or someone I don't like, but on the eplaya it's a little more diffecult.

precipitate wrote:- I'm an adult. I'm perfectly capable of reviewing my plonk list periodically
on my own. Chances are that if someone I've decided to ignore starts
contributing, I'll notice because of others' responses to their posts and
I'll get curious and check out what's going on. I don't need a nag agent
to remind me to review stuff. Then again, I don't see any harm in a nag
agent either.


I said last night the list of plonked users should be very prominent within your setting and you should have a button right there that lets you unblock them. And I think you just outlined the ideal case. Think of a newbie coming here, who might otherwise get scared off, having a little power to control their experience and sticking around because they could block the person who at first scared them.
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Postby Kinetic II » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:49 pm

Archantael wrote:K, no excuses quit posting and move. Do it your way and ignore them. Remember the Loading Dock set, you can do anything you put your mind to.


Arch, you got your deal, I'll transfer the papers over. Now get your dang phone on so I can call you. At least I can leave KC and not have to worry about any of the paperwork. It's all yours! :D
Last edited by Kinetic II on Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PJ » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:25 pm

3 - after talking with the group, we all decided that we want as little "oversight" as necessary. Rather than starting with moderation, we are going to work on various aspects of the experience to reduce the instances that might require moderation...


Bob has a one-sentence guideline left over from many years ago that IMO is elegantly simple. Maybe too simple for the New World Order but perhaps it could be used as an inspirational starting place.
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Postby PJ » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:26 pm

(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)
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Postby Kinetic II » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:42 pm

PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.
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Postby herself » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:31 pm

Flip a fucking coin for god sake we all have heard all the arguments. If the wrong decision is made it will be obvious soon enough and we can reverse it.

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Sorry to inconvenience you with my crusading

Postby aforceforgood » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:40 am

nipples wrote:I could plonk four people, and have a very nice experience here every time I come, rather than have to wade through all sorts of BULLSHIT about how much Burningman sucks, or newbies suck, or how the "old playa" was better. And then they say they "care", or they "miss the old times". Yeah, the old times when they had chosen a different "enemy".. but now the "enemy" is the forum itself.. with several new ones conveiniently available.... Go for it! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Then stay away if you cannot stop coming back here & saying how much this place sucks on every freaking thread. It WILL suck as long as YOU are here sucking the breath out of the babies mouth. Freaking asswipes.


So you're saying... what? That we shouldn't say anything about things we'd like to see fixed, changed, how we should treat each other?

Your post eloquently demonstrates that the OH's are not cranky old bastards.

[/sarcasm].

Without the complaints about what was wrong, the rift would have grown wider, more people would have left the eplaya, we would have continued to perceive the etf as aloof admins who cared nothing about the eplaya or it's users, the etf would have felt more and more beleagured and less appreciated, their work on their gift to us- this BBS- would likely have decreased, and we would not have as much input as we do into the design of the eplaya.

Note to self; email etf and plead for them to prioritize the plonker higher so we don't have to see more of these "GEDDOFFA my lawn you punk kids!!" posts...
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Postby Bob » Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:28 am

Please move this sort of discussion to Feedback.
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Postby Kinetic II » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:24 am

Bob, the feedback section might be undergoing some changes shortly. Until that happens this discussion would be better off staying where it is. Once the admins make their changes, then we can move it. The thread is serving several purposes right now and I doubt it will be moved. Thanks.

Edit: Bob, by the way I'm not going into a NetCop frenzy. (If I was going to be an ass, you and everyone else will know it, trust me. Precip and Badger are cream puffs compared to me when I finally get pissed and act on it.) The task force is looking at making changes to the feedback section and I may have misunderstood the conversation but I thought that was a change they would be making soon. (The change was consolidating the two sections into one, that would address the too many threads to read complaint at least for the section, and make it easier for the admins to keep up on what the community wants.)

Sheesh, I didn't know I would upset you like it appears I did. Keep in mind I'm a nobody here, I'm just volunteering. And your welcome to get actively involved in this process as is anyone else who wants to do so. I didn't hear one word saying the door was closed, everyone wants this to be as transparent as possible. And it will be as we get up to speed. We're just not there yet.
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Postby PJ » Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:32 am

Kinetic II wrote:
PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.


Possibly, but that would be out-of-character for me. In any case I can't recall what it might have been IRT.
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Postby Booker » Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:33 am

K: You feel you're not being Officer Netcop. I disagree. Esp., as Testes noted, when you slop around the lame old bugaboo of potentially illegal content. That was smacked down a coupla times on the oldbbs, and it can be smacked down here the same way, if & when needed. Beyond that, don't be tryna put your sensitivities between me and the database. I'll take care of that on my own, thankee very much.

You're pleased to be helping out this good cause in some volunteer capacity. Good on ya. Now please let it rest a bit.

In fact, I think I'd give that advice to all of us, self included. The issues have been covered. Someone apparently is working on them. How 'bout we shift this energy to neutral for a bit and wait to see some sort of implementation plan posted at some suitable location at some suitable time? Following my own advice now and goin' to do something useful.
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easy pardners...

Postby technopatra » Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:42 pm

I'm finishing up the report to y'all about the meeting, took a break to come here and see what was going on....YIKES!

I am happily, actively still scanning the boards for input and feedback, but I gotta say, when I come across posts with "asswipes" and other non-endearment name-calling, I pretty much ignore them.

Namecalling puts a serious bug up my butt, and the more time I have to spend digging bugs outta my butt, the less time I have to work on this. (please no requests for pics, I can not compete with Trey & PJ)

Please please please consider your tone and word choices, not only out of respect to others, but for the benefit of getting your message across.

Also, I agree with Bob that this sort of discussion is really better made in the Feedback section. We are going to try to condense the feedback section so that it'll take fewer page views to find you thread (see, we are listening to our dialup compadres), but it shouldn't cause any pain & suffering when we do.

That said, I greatly appreciate the Nipple's & Booker's requests to reduce the repetitive criticism and start moving forward. But if you want to repeatedly criticize, please by all means do so in the Feedback section.

ok, back to work on the meeting report...
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Postby aforceforgood » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:07 pm

PJ wrote:
Kinetic II wrote:
PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.


Possibly, but that would be out-of-character for me. In any case I can't recall what it might have been IRT.


I think it was someone else since they referred to PJ in the third person. Couldn't tell who, a lot of people were talking at the time.
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Postby DE FACTO » Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:58 pm

aforceforgood wrote:
PJ wrote:
Kinetic II wrote:
PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.


Possibly, but that would be out-of-character for me. In any case I can't recall what it might have been IRT.


I think it was someone else since they referred to PJ in the third person. Couldn't tell who, a lot of people were talking at the time.


Are you guys talking about the disscussion of embedded graphics at the meeting?
even though...........
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Postby Kinetic II » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:11 pm

As a matter of fact, yes. Did you take better notes or hear something that was I missed?
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Postby DE FACTO » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:05 pm

Kinetic II wrote:As a matter of fact, yes. Did you take better notes or hear something that was I missed?


Britton (Brittany?) said that he needed to optimize the graphics. As far as anything embedded I missed that.
even though...........
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Postby Kinetic II » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:12 pm

It may have been a misunderstanding on my part...maybe I was subconsciously thinking about it coming up and I didn't hear what I thought I did. That's how crap gets started. Mea Culpa, again.

Next time I'll have Total Recorder working right and I won't have the problem. As it was I was so wrapped up in getting a speakerphone on my side to work, it's a wonder I heard anything. I wish the yahoo feed had working audio, I could have patched it through the home theater equipment.
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Postby PJ » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:15 pm

DE FACTO wrote:
aforceforgood wrote:
PJ wrote:
Kinetic II wrote:
PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.


Possibly, but that would be out-of-character for me. In any case I can't recall what it might have been IRT.


I think it was someone else since they referred to PJ in the third person. Couldn't tell who, a lot of people were talking at the time.


Are you guys talking about the disscussion of embedded graphics at the meeting?


Seems it's turned into a discussion of embedded quotes.
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Postby DE FACTO » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:17 pm

that does look kinda good doesn't it.
even though...........
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Hey, don't run with those sissors... Here's a knife...

Postby Last Real Burner » Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:42 pm

PJ wrote:
DE FACTO wrote:
aforceforgood wrote:
PJ wrote:
Kinetic II wrote:
PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.


Possibly, but that would be out-of-character for me. In any case I can't recall what it might have been IRT.


I think it was someone else since they referred to PJ in the third person. Couldn't tell who, a lot of people were talking at the time.


Are you guys talking about the disscussion of embedded graphics at the meeting?


Seems it's turned into a discussion of embedded quotes.


I like unleaded gases it makes my car run smoother in my opinion.
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Re: Hey, don't run with those sissors... Here's a knife...

Postby aforceforgood » Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:31 pm

Last Real Burner wrote:
PJ wrote:
DE FACTO wrote:
aforceforgood wrote:
PJ wrote:
Kinetic II wrote:
PJ wrote:(I wonder what it was that K. remembers me mentioning about imbedded images? Damned if I can recall saying anything about that.)


It was just a passing shot at the PTB, it sounded like you were trying to get a response when they were talking about content.


Possibly, but that would be out-of-character for me. In any case I can't recall what it might have been IRT.


I think it was someone else since they referred to PJ in the third person. Couldn't tell who, a lot of people were talking at the time.


Are you guys talking about the disscussion of embedded graphics at the meeting?


Seems it's turned into a discussion of embedded quotes.


I like unleaded gases it makes my car run smoother in my opinion.


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