Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Want to talk about tickets? You've come to the right place

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby unjonharley » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:03 pm

Suggest you read the thread..Everything you can think of has been chewed and spit out.

And yes I am for a fact mentally ill.. Now go play in the street.
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 10045
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:12 pm

eplaya is a frequent target for trolls, who sign in, wail about the community and, in their very first posts, make accusations about the llc, or larry harvey, or more, and often cause much ado. While it is possible that you are not a troll, you are, nonetheless, making the classic gestures.
Your next one, btw, is to say that you are not a troll.

You have other options, but you aren't getting anywhere with your current approach.

This does sound just up the burning blog's alley...
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


Get a Taint, you pathetic cur!
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 40105
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Eric » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:05 pm

Regis Debray wrote:This isn't about money, and the organization has a board of directors now and is holding itself out as a 501(c)(3) already.


I haven't seen an announcement yet about the Burning Man Project taking over the event, and that is the entity that is the 501(c)(3). Once it takes over, there will be more transparency in where the money goes, but you still may not find out until long after the event. Until then, it's still in the hands of the LLC, and they don't have to give out any more information than they want to. If you've been attending since 2000 then you're well aware of the fact that getting information from them is like pulling teeth, and even with the Afterburn report (which they do voluntarily) we're still not getting full information. It's just the way it is, and the way it's always been.

As I said before, you can work yourself into a froth over it, with no-one to give you answers unless they want to (and everyone on this board, including the Admin & us Mods, are volunteers or just regular Burners - none of us have the info you seek), or you can say "fukkit" and know that this won't even make a dent in your thoughts once you're in the dust. I've got enough stress in my real life, I don't need to create more for my vacation.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scammers and Scalpers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
Ass't Editor, BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby fernley1 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:51 pm

Well said Eric.
When do the afterburn reports usually come out?
User avatar
fernley1
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:31 pm
Location: Fernley, Nevada, gateway to the Blackrock Desert.
Burning Since: 2013

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:14 pm

It varies. Somewhere between 8 and 18 months post event, afaict.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


Get a Taint, you pathetic cur!
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 40105
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:07 am

burning man is NOT A DEMOCRACY.


so just sit down, shut your fucking frothy mouth and pay the goddamn vehicle pass like a man. :twisted:
I'd rather Burn on my Feet, than Rave on my knees

Frida Be You & Me

A gift for the Playa

THIS YEARS POSTERS

2015 posters
User avatar
Simon of the Playa
 
Posts: 16150
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Location: Rochester, Nevada.
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:09 am

LIKE A MAN



um, thats kinda sexist.
"10 principles? you cant HANDLE the 10 principles..."
User avatar
Roberto Dobbisano
 
Posts: 2973
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:54 pm
Location: Dobbidossola, Italy.

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby H.G.Crosby » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:10 am

Roberto Dobbisano wrote:
LIKE A MAN



um, thats kinda sexist.




um, HE'S kinda sexist.
Once I noticed I was on fire, I decided to relax and enjoy the fall™
User avatar
H.G.Crosby
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 pm
Location: Boston, New York, Paris, Tangiers

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby remi » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:03 am

Regis Debray wrote:This isn't about money, and the organization has a board of directors now and is holding itself out as a 501(c)(3) already. The inference that BMORG is making is that the vehicle ticket will ease the traffic. The traffic isn't the problem. The problem is, among other things, the chokepoint at the gate where members of our camp were held for 2 hours and longer for no reason. In other words, the current iteration of traffic control is worse than it ever has been. The solution, with respect, is not "go or don't go." I think the money is being collected by means of misrepresentation of what is going to be done with it. That irks me. Does anyone know how many vehicles were on the Playa in 2012 or 2013?


Please forgive these guys.. they're not use to dealing with people who have feelings.

First point.. if there was less traffic, the "chokepoint" wouldn't effect us as bad.. so you're wrong.. traffic is a problem. Another problem is a bunch of retard drivers.. but money doesn't fix that.

Secondly, When you buy a burger at McDonalds, are you worried on how that company will spend the profit made from your purchase? The only thing that really matters is "is this purchase justified." You pay the money, and get your food.

In this situation, you still don't know how they will spend your profit, but you are aware that they are justifying this charge "to incentivize participants to reduce the number of vehicles entering BRC by increasing the number of participants per vehicle." If you don't think that is worth the 40$ per vehicle... well.. nobody here can help you.
Can you at least admit that nuclear explosions are awesome!?
User avatar
remi
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:58 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:54 am

@Regis - I disagree that traffic management at the gate is worse than it ever has been. I'd argue that it's been better than ever in the last couple years, when they instituted the apex. Thankfully now it doesn't matter what lane a car is in, no last minute backups and fuckups because someone realized one of the passengers has a ticket at will call. The big chokepoints are still the same... volume (everybody trying to get there or leave at the same time) and weather conditions (if there's a serious dust-up, or if it rains, all traffic has to stop til it clears. As for the number of vehicles, I believe it was under 35K in both years. The vehicle passes themselves don't ease traffic - it's more of a means for Burning Man to get its arms around the number of vehicles coming to Black Rock City (speaking personally, I suspect that's something that it needs to do as it looks towards the future). Where vehicle passes have the capacity to help ease traffic is that they raise awareness and incentivize rideshares and carpools and mass transportation. Because of the size of the city, even small changes and improvements could mean thousands fewer vehicles.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14035
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Mojojita » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:31 pm

There are several very good reasons that Gate closes temporarily from time to time. Just because your campmates didn't know the reason does not mean there isn't one. It can be perfectly clear at gate and be raining at greeter's. The gate closes if a child is reported to be lost. There are times that cars are held until visibility is good enough to drive safely. You did not say, however, if the gate was temporarily closed or if just that vehicle was held for 2 hours. There are many other reasons a single vehicle could be delayed.

I agree with Trilo in that I saw a very consistent and predictable flow of traffic this year coming from gate into the greeter's station. The length of time it takes to get in really is all about the number of vehicles trying to get in at the same time. All have just gone from doing 65mph or so to 5mph once on the playa. I have been really impressed with the redesign of gate road to handle the number of vehicles it does now. The huge number of lanes and the addition of all the big sweeping s turns gets a huge number of cars off of the highway and onto the playa.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.
User avatar
Mojojita
 
Posts: 1164
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby fernley1 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:11 pm

We had a half hour holdup last year at the gate when a car died in front of us and had to get towed out of the way. Other then that not to bad considering it was Sunday evening.
User avatar
fernley1
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:31 pm
Location: Fernley, Nevada, gateway to the Blackrock Desert.
Burning Since: 2013

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby remi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:59 pm

Yeah.. I go to much smaller festivals that have much longer wait times. When I came into TTITD in 2012, there wasn't even a line.. and this was Monday around noon. Just drove right in, through the searches and right to the greeters in about 5-10 minutes. I've spent more time in a McDonalds drive thru.
Can you at least admit that nuclear explosions are awesome!?
User avatar
remi
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:58 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Mojojita » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:28 pm

There really were entrance times that were way off the chain ridiculous this year. We came in on Monday mid day after having to leave the playa for a medical emergency. It took us over 8 hours from Reno to get back to camp. Friends took nearly 12 hours from Reno coming in Sunday evening, and I'm sure there are many worse stories out there.

I really do think we need as many creative, successful methods we can find to mitigate the congestion.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.
User avatar
Mojojita
 
Posts: 1164
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby 9ah » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:34 pm

Walking from Reno might aid in that, granted it may end up looking like a The Walking Dead marathon.


:coffee:
Illuminate. Navigate. Celebrate.
What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?
User avatar
9ah
 
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:37 am
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: Lamplighters

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Mojojita » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:10 pm

A Haa Haaaa! Would stop looking like Walking Dead and just be Dead somewhere near Nixon. Would no doubt cut down vehicle congestion.
Ut ballista es interdico, tantum interdico mos fui ballista.
User avatar
Mojojita
 
Posts: 1164
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:17 am
Location: Under your bed

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby trilobyte » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm

It might look different than you think. If I'm not mistaken, the police pick walkers and hitchhikers up on that road.

The wait times can vary by massive amounts, and often for reasons well outside of Burning Man's control. If it's raining at all on gate road, they have to stop all traffic until it passes - and there were a few sprinkles here and there. If a dust storm kicks up, they've got to stop all traffic until it passes. And of course, if everybody's trying to get there all at once, sheer volume will make for long lines and really slow going. Speaking personally, I think that as people were seeing pictures of that massive flying saucer man pavilion coming together, it got them excited and led a lot of people to do their damnedest to get out there as soon as possible. I've been participating since 2004, and have never seen so many people in the city on a Monday.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14035
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby Eric » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:38 pm

remi wrote:Just drove right in, through the searches and right to the greeters in about 5-10 minutes.


Just how fast were you driving? There is no way to get from the road, through Gate & to Greeters in 5-10 minutes at 5mph. Hell, it takes at least that long on an empty Gate road to get from the 447 to Gate, and it probably takes Gate at least that long to search a vehicle. In 2011 we left during the Man Burn and it took us a minimum of 30-40 minutes to hit the pavement, and that was with almost no traffic, no merging, little dust, no problems.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scammers and Scalpers

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric ShutterSlut
Ass't Editor, BRC Weekly
User avatar
Eric
Moderator
 
Posts: 8743
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby remi » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:10 am

Eric wrote:
remi wrote:Just drove right in, through the searches and right to the greeters in about 5-10 minutes.


Just how fast were you driving? There is no way to get from the road, through Gate & to Greeters in 5-10 minutes at 5mph. Hell, it takes at least that long on an empty Gate road to get from the 447 to Gate, and it probably takes Gate at least that long to search a vehicle. In 2011 we left during the Man Burn and it took us a minimum of 30-40 minutes to hit the pavement, and that was with almost no traffic, no merging, little dust, no problems.

^^^^ We had absolutely no traffic. (at noon on a Monday.. I fuckin' hit the lottery.)

I was going the posted speed limit (I think it was 5-10MPH I believe it was). People were passing us. I wasn't really timing it.. it just felt like 5-10 minutes because there was absolutely no traffic, perfect visibility and no lines. I couldn't believe it. However long it takes to drive straight in, that's how long it took. The road was totally empty, and the search was maybe two minutes.. just quickly opened up any compartment that can fit a human.

I really hated how people would speed when there is no traffic. Like it's a race. BMIR stated it would be patrolled, but all these fuck-head speeders got through without a slap on the wrist.

I pack up all my gear to make it as easy as possible for people to search. If everyone were to do that, wait times would be drastically shorter.
Can you at least admit that nuclear explosions are awesome!?
User avatar
remi
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:58 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby 9ah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:28 am

I recall exodus on a Tuesday with clear roads, clear skies, absolutely no wait. From Greeeters tents to 447 took at least 15 minutes and thats's without a search /ticket scanning.


On another note, I figured if Badwater 135gets canceled we can have a Burning Man 125 or if there was a car lot in Gerlach, the Burning Man Half Marathon. :P

:coffee:
Illuminate. Navigate. Celebrate.
What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?
User avatar
9ah
 
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:37 am
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: Lamplighters

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:58 am

It's worth mentioning out that if you're driving the speed limit (10mph on the early stretch, then dropping to 5mph), don't have to use will call, and you skipped the greeter's station (if that were an option), it'll take you at least a half hour to get from paved road to the outer-most street in BRC. Depending on dust conditions and your vehicle and the complexity of the search it could take longer, but it won't take less if you're obeying speed limits. And please do obey those limits - faster kicks up more dust (which often blows through the city), and makes for worse ruts to have to contend with on the trip out of the city.

@remi - I agree, better packing could probably reduce the time it take to go through peoples' vehicles. Sometime this summer I want to start up a thread with tips for getting through the line in less time - when I do, please feel free to chime in with that. :)
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14035
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby 9ah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:34 pm

Sorry to ruin anyone's thoughts of running/walking the Burning Man 125 or Burning Man Half Marathon to the playa....http://www.badwater.com/.... Badwater 135 is still on... SOOOO... If you're looking for a really tough desert trek on foot, check that out.

:coffee:

Or the Burning Man Ultramarathon on 8/27/14 on playa
Illuminate. Navigate. Celebrate.
What would you do if you knew you couldn't fail?
User avatar
9ah
 
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:37 am
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: Lamplighters

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby remi » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:32 am

trilobyte wrote:@remi - I agree, better packing could probably reduce the time it take to go through peoples' vehicles. Sometime this summer I want to start up a thread with tips for getting through the line in less time - when I do, please feel free to chime in with that. :)



Will do. I actually got in the habit of doing it when I cross the border to go to an American festival.. but after noticing how quick I get searched.. I now make a point of packing everything neatly, leaving a walk way up and down my trailer (that's right, I get searched in 2 minutes with an RV,) and make sure all my cabinets, bathroom, fridge and coolers are accessible (I leave the cooler and fridge accessible because I go to some festivals where booze is not allowed :evil: so you know that's the first place they look.)
Can you at least admit that nuclear explosions are awesome!?
User avatar
remi
 
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:58 pm
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:31 am

Last year the traffic people created hysteria that if everyone didnt leave all at once they'd all be stuck in mud for days. It rained about a quarter inch at most and no one was stuck. I stayed in camp and heard it took people 12 hours to get to the road. That's the mentality were dealing with.

trilobyte wrote:@Regis - I disagree that traffic management at the gate is worse than it ever has been. I'd argue that it's been better than ever in the last couple years, when they instituted the apex. Thankfully now it doesn't matter what lane a car is in, no last minute backups and fuckups because someone realized one of the passengers has a ticket at will call. The big chokepoints are still the same... volume (everybody trying to get there or leave at the same time) and weather conditions (if there's a serious dust-up, or if it rains, all traffic has to stop til it clears. As for the number of vehicles, I believe it was under 35K in both years. The vehicle passes themselves don't ease traffic - it's more of a means for Burning Man to get its arms around the number of vehicles coming to Black Rock City (speaking personally, I suspect that's something that it needs to do as it looks towards the future). Where vehicle passes have the capacity to help ease traffic is that they raise awareness and incentivize rideshares and carpools and mass transportation. Because of the size of the city, even small changes and improvements could mean thousands fewer vehicles.
Anyone taking offence at anything in my posts - tough. It's only an internet forum. Stop being overly sensitive. you are shallow and banal. Eplayans who spend hours a day posting need to make in person friends and mentally masturbate less.
PlayaPatrol
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:01 pm

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby PlayaPatrol » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:33 am

Sorry, it never is clear less then one mile from rain. Thats a myth. Children lost are their parents responsibility. Not 70,000 others with nothing to do with their neglect.

Mojojita wrote:There are several very good reasons that Gate closes temporarily from time to time. Just because your campmates didn't know the reason does not mean there isn't one. It can be perfectly clear at gate and be raining at greeter's. The gate closes if a child is reported to be lost. There are times that cars are held until visibility is good enough to drive safely. You did not say, however, if the gate was temporarily closed or if just that vehicle was held for 2 hours. There are many other reasons a single vehicle could be delayed.

I agree with Trilo in that I saw a very consistent and predictable flow of traffic this year coming from gate into the greeter's station. The length of time it takes to get in really is all about the number of vehicles trying to get in at the same time. All have just gone from doing 65mph or so to 5mph once on the playa. I have been really impressed with the redesign of gate road to handle the number of vehicles it does now. The huge number of lanes and the addition of all the big sweeping s turns gets a huge number of cars off of the highway and onto the playa.
Anyone taking offence at anything in my posts - tough. It's only an internet forum. Stop being overly sensitive. you are shallow and banal. Eplayans who spend hours a day posting need to make in person friends and mentally masturbate less.
PlayaPatrol
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:01 pm

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby VultureChow » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:55 am

PlayaPatrol wrote:Sorry, it never is clear less then one mile from rain. Thats a myth. Children lost are their parents responsibility. Not 70,000 others with nothing to do with their neglect.


All we need is one kid abducted from the event to bring down a world of hurt.

Also, shutting down access is the standard response in any missing child event. Stores, malls, schools, hospitals. We do drills at our properties.
FREE THE STRIPPERS!
User avatar
VultureChow
 
Posts: 2195
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:08 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Camp Hooker @ Barbie Death Village

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby GreyCoyote » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:13 am

PlayaPatrol wrote:Sorry, it never is clear less then one mile from rain. Thats a myth.


You do get out out of that padded cell occasionally, yes? :roll:

PlayaPatrol wrote:Children lost are their parents responsibility. Not 70,000 others with nothing to do with their neglect.


Rather than you deciding what the responsibilities of 69,999 others are and are not, lets just agree YOU wont be offering YOUR services. My guess is there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 60,000 who would disagree with you. If you have seen the way Burners treat and interact with random passing kids, you would understand why 60,000 probably isnt an exaggeration. And while I personally dont think kids belong at Burning Man, I will be the FIRST one off the bench when one goes missing, is hurt or in distress.

Why anyone would choose to discard their basic humanity just because they are at a party in the desert completely escapes me. But feel free to burn as you will.
"Resistance is futile. You will be commodified"..."
c.f Larry Harvey, The BMOrg
User avatar
GreyCoyote
 
Posts: 1775
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:24 am
Burning Since: 2000

Re: Vehicle Passes and Burning Man Traffic Issues

Postby trilobyte » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:22 am

You can usually identify an internet troll by the pattern of behavior in their posts. They often reply to old conversations, usually with remarks intended to pick a fight or start an argument. They don't often make a very good case, because their goal isn't to prevail, it's to start an argument and get people worked up. If you see something that might fit that pattern of behavior, click on the user's name on the right side of their post and then click on Search User's Posts on the right side of their profile page. Pattern behavior is pretty easy to spot. You can then opt to just ignore the user's posts (don't feed the troll, as it were), or even mute them so you don't see their posts anymore.
User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14035
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:54 pm
Location: San Francisco
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society

Previous

Return to 2014 Tickets Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest