Who wants a ride in 2004?

Questions, answers, tips & tricks for newbies and veterans alike

Postby lapeer20m » Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:30 am

how much precious water do you think i'll loose due to evaporation from the hot tub in a week?
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:38 am

Considered a ball pit instead of a hot tub?

<img src="http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/pix/seaworld/BallPit-m.jpg">
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Postby flyboypa28r » Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:32 pm

lapeer20m wrote:our own group.....that's an excellent idea. It would be great if we had more people join our camp. If were to to get organized that could be quite handy. We could all bring less "stuff" and perhaps share a bit.


Hi lapeer,
I'm from Sauk Village, Illinois. Just off of 80. I am planning on opening up a ride share offer for 5 others in a 24 foot RV. Maybe we can talk about joining camps/resources. Also, if you do decide 80 is the way then maybe we can have ourselves a rolling camp (convoy) on the way out there. Thoughts?

BTW: Will be a BM virgin until August '04.
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Postby lapeer20m » Wed Oct 15, 2003 2:13 pm

i don't think a ball pit has quite the same appeal as a hot tub. Although it would be quite a bit lighter, and wouldn't evaporate.

Joining forces on a camp sounds like a wonderful idea. Sharing resources (physical and intellectual) certianly has it's advantages. It's still a year away, but i pretty much have my mind made up that we're taking I 90 out west and making a weeklong sightseeing trip out of the ordeal. I think a traveling caravan would be great, but i'm afraid the bus may be a burden to others with it's top speed on level ground being a grueling 60 mph with the wind at our back. I'm not at all opposed to traveling with other rv's if they are interested. Safety in numbers, plus each can help the other in fixing any problems the rigs might encounter along the way.
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:09 pm

> i don't think a ball pit has quite the same appeal as a hot tub....

Your opinion may vary, but it would fit right in as trickling filter media for graywater treatment.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby lapeer20m » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:30 am

YOU CAN'T SWIM IN THE BALL PIT IF IT'S SATURATED WITH GREY WATER.

the ball pit would weigh much less and be a lot less mantainance than the water in the hot tub.

but i'm addicted to the hot tub idea.
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Postby lapeer20m » Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:23 am

I can't believe the response. I've been flooded with e-mail from people who love the bus. some want to ride to BM, others just liked the idea of a hot tub in a bus. One person from northern Cali was very impressed with the video of the bus doing brodies. what are brodies you may ask?? If you don't know, you'll just have to download the mpg file and watch for yourself.

I have the opportunity to solve the water shortage problem for me and my campmates. There are two local fire departments selling (really cheap) old tanker trucks. Each holds about 2000 gallons. It's not probable, but it is possible i could aquire one of these for the purpose of hauling water to the playa.
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Postby Flux » Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:17 am

lapeer20m wrote:I have the opportunity to solve the water shortage problem for me and my campmates. There are two local fire departments selling (really cheap) old tanker trucks. Each holds about 2000 gallons. It's not probable, but it is possible i could aquire one of these for the purpose of hauling water to the playa.

In 2002, there was a guy with an old water truck (like they use for wetting down the streets of BRC) and an old fire department tanker truck. He brought a swimming pool, complete with filtration system, which was open to all and sundry. It was most marvelous! I heard he was there in 2003, but never made it over there for a dip.
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:04 am

2000 gallons... hmm.

Went through about that much per day before the health department busted us in '98.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby flyboypa28r » Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:52 am

lapeer20m wrote:Joining forces on a camp sounds like a wonderful idea. Sharing resources (physical and intellectual) certianly has it's advantages. It's still a year away, but i pretty much have my mind made up that we're taking I 90 out west and making a weeklong sightseeing trip out of the ordeal.


Unfortunately I cannot take that much time before the burn off work. Would like to talk camp though. As it stands now, I will be in a newly remodeled 26' 1977 GMC RV. I am going to haul a trailer with 55 gallon drums of water and bicycles and whatever else sneaks on. Grey water will be returned back to the empty drums for later disposal. Drinking water will be in 5 gallon bottles.
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Postby lapeer20m » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:39 pm

If i didn't live 2500 or 3000 miles from the playa it would be a lot easier to transport heavy stuff (like 2000 gallons of water) out there.


flyboy, where are you leaving from??
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Postby flyboypa28r » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:56 pm

Sauk Village, Illinois. It's about 25 miles south of Chicago on the IL/IN border. We will probably leave mid-Friday.
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Postby Flux » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:03 pm

lapeer20m wrote:If i didn't live 2500 or 3000 miles from the playa it would be a lot easier to transport heavy stuff (like 2000 gallons of water) out there.

If I were you, I'd contact Johnny on the Spot in Reno, which is vendor for the porta-potties. I have seen potable water trucks bearing their logo at Burning Man, and 2000 gallons may be a sufficiently large order that the would be willing to deliver it to you on the playa.
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Postby J » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:23 pm

Now I'm no scientist, but no amount of water can top the fun of a ball pit
did you see how happy that child was in the picture?
Lots of little balls = Lots of big fun
Please forget the words that I just blurted out
It wasn't me, it was my strange and creeping doubt
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Postby lapeer20m » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:02 pm

if i had a giant ball pit, i wouln'dt have to worry about keeping the water clean. I'm really worried about how i'm going to keep the water crystal clear for the entire week. LIke i've said before, I usually change the water almost everytime we use it. There's a limit to how much clorine, and how many chemicals can be used to fix the dirty water problem.
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Postby Isotopia » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:10 pm

if i had a giant ball pit, i wouln'dt have to worry about keeping the water clean.


Well good buddy, it sounds to me like you've stumbled on the answer which you seek.

Funny how that happens.
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Postby Flux » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:12 pm

lapeer20m wrote:I'm really worried about how i'm going to keep the water crystal clear for the entire week. LIke i've said before, I usually change the water almost everytime we use it. There's a limit to how much clorine, and how many chemicals can be used to fix the dirty water problem.

One thing that will really help will be to have everyone shower before entering the water. You'll use some water for that, but probably less in the long run, not to mention the energy savings compared to having to reheat the tub from scratch each day.

I would imagine that a bigger problem than biological contaminants, which the chlorine neutralizes, will be the sheer quantity of playa dust that will make its way into the water. That stuff is so fine that it will probably be tricky to filter out, and the alkalinity may affect your ability to maintain the proper pH balance.

(Of course, I'm just theorizing here. I have no actual experience with trying to run a hot tub on the playa, but these are the thoughts that come to my mind when I consider your situation. Caveat emptor.)
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Postby Bob » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:29 pm

Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby Isotopia » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:34 pm

I think Bob might be alluding to what you can expect if you don't take the necessary precautions to guard against playa dust in your hot tub.

But that's only a guess.

I mean, I don't want to presume too much here.
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Postby flyboypa28r » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:55 pm

I have no experience with playa dust YET, but have read about it here.

Maybe if you leave everything off for a few hours a day so all the silt settles to the bottom, then use a siphon vacuum to suck the crap off the bottom into buckets. Then let the buckets settle for a bit and then suck as much good clean water off the top of those to put back into the tub. That should leave you with a lot of silt and very little lost water in the buckets and very little work. Same principles go into making a nice clear tincture of cayanne.

Assuming playa dust sinks.

Just thinking out loud
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:03 am

Assuming playa dust sinks.


Ah, and therein lies the problem.

Particle size is small enough that the particles remain suspended for quite some time. I mean, they will eventually settle out but not for a while and ONLY if the water is kept from being strirred up or agitated for any length of time. Otherwise you could be looking at a period in excess of eight+ hours before you see any reduction in turbidity.

I can't believe I used that word.
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Postby flyboypa28r » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:13 am

Too bad it wouldn't foam like protein, then it could be skimmed off the top like a boiling pot of playa human noodle soup. Now there would be a sight.
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Postby Isotopia » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:59 am

Two words: Raver Slurpees.
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Postby Bob » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:24 am

Iso -- It was my camp's installation in 1998, one of the ones busted by the health inspectors (see previous posts).

Why I've always thought hot tubs were intrinsically skanky, but that this was a good idea, I can never hope to explain.

Image

http://images.burningman.com/index.cgi?image=1765
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby lapeer20m » Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:17 pm

i am only kidding about the ball pit. I'm going to try the hot tub idea. I do like the idea of using the siphon to suck out the playa dirt.....This works quite well on Michigan sand. I have no problem leaving the hot tub empty and coverd for 8 hours at a time if it means that i'll have clean water for the entire week. The hot tub has a good filter in place already. I could add some external pumps/filters.........possibly some 100 micron hydrolic oil filters. 100 micron's seem pretty small to me.

Taking showers is going to be mandatory before entering the hot tub, and i'm starting to think that the number of people allowed in the tub will be severely limited. There are lots of chemicals to help keep the proper Ph level of the water. Another concern is makup and hair dye. Some guy had his hair dyed black for a halloween party, and after getting in the hot tub, all the water turned really murky. I don't know how to fix that.......
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hot tub in the desert....houston we have a problem!

Postby Crankful » Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:03 pm

Hey Lapeer 20M;

I brought a 1969 Dodge Venture 20' motorhome to BM for my first burn and showered twice since water is god......maybe you could fill the tub with ice and keep an obscene amount of beer cold.....the temp during the day can get up there so the tub will do best at night but restricting people as in who get to and don't will be as hard as narrowing down your choices on who gets to go....best of luck and I will share my drive there story later :shock:
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Postby lapeer20m » Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:00 pm

I'm pretty cranky when i have to be, so I think i can do an allright job at restricting the flow of people into the hot tub.

Some guy gave me a wonderful idea today when it comes to filtering the water.......why not use a large swimming pool filter?? What a great idea. I think that'll help a lot with cleaning the water alogn with the original jacuzzi filter.

I am working really hard at finding a way to get enough water to refill the hot tub halfway through the week
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Crankless midweek

Postby Crankful » Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:15 am

I broke the crank on my bike the first day and was crankless...went a whole day without a bike (essential item for the record) and was cranky.....one of the many bike repair shops on the playa fixed my bike day three and I became Crankful...... :idea: as far as the water thing maybe a 50 gal can filled with water as a backup and then an empty 50 gal to empty the tub into....empty into the empty and then fill with the backup.....filter the water in what was the backup before refilling and just repeat the process all week....that way there will be less down time! How are doing as far as parring down the rider list?
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Postby lapeer20m » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:31 am

........the idea of filtering the water in the back up drums doesn't work quite so well.....It takes 8 drums to hold the 400 gallons of water from the hot tub. To filter the water in all 8 at one time would require hoses and fittings connecting all of them together. I think that instead i will use the original water in the hot tub for half a week, then switch over to the backup water for the next half. I'll use a swimming pool filter running 24 hours a day plus the hot tub filter whenever there's people in there, and i'll keep it covered when nobody is in the hot tub.

As for who gets to ride on board the black plague: There haven't been too many serious inquiries. I've had ton's of e-mails from people who want info or might want to go. Thus far, there are 5 or 6 people including me who are definately planning to go. That leaves room for a max of 4 more people. I'll see what happens as time marches on. Bm 2004 is still a ways off.
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Postby lapeer20m » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:48 am

anybody know where i can get 1000 gallons of water in reno?? Here in Michigan water is taken for granted, but i understand that it's much more of a commodity in the desert.
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