Playa Lung ??!!??!!!???

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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:41 am

[quote="AKAparttime"][quote="emergenttech"]I just thought I had better quote this:

"This leaves open the issue of dose-risk relation and pathogenic mechanisms and supports the conclusion that the carcinogenic role of silica per se in absence of silicosis is still unclear."

from:

Occupational silica exposure and lung cancer risk: a review of epidemiological studies 1996-2005.[/quote]


~ Now think about this, Radon Daughter fallout.

-Lead-210- 214
-Bismuth-210 -214
-Polonium-210 -214
Lot's of decomposing granite in the mountains surrounding the Black Rock Desert.

We are doomed.....[/quote]

OK I'm freaking out even more now. Holy cow - is there no end to the torment?
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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:47 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYZUhSeRYc[/youtube]

don't tell him about the radioactive silica replacement materials present in pertrified wood and such in the area, either........from the naturally occuring uranium just east of the playa.....

or, that it's downwind of the Honey lake military munitions testing ground and probably anthrax testing sites situated within.........
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Postby mdmf007 » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:48 am

We can play that as well,

there are lots of dangers out there - I have not heard of anyone dieing from the playa dust yet,

but there have been people hurt and killed by:

art cars, the drive in and out, a suicide, heart failure from stopping beating, OD's I am sure.

Alcohol consumption is chronic as well.

playa dust sucks and probably hits some harder than most - see a pro.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:54 am

Dang, I thought for sure anyone calling himself "emergenttech" (or whatever, close enough) had to belong to the "brotherhood."

Anyway, I know that I brought up Scott's death. Still, that's not a license to ask questions about it. Perhaps someone will take pity on the op and clue him in. I don't want to talk about it.
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:06 am

I really don't know what you mean: "brotherhood", I'm slightly bewildered.

All I am doing is showing human concern. If there are dangers surely its best that we learn to minimize them or know their true extent?

@theCryptofishist, Sorry to be so blunt, I too have lost people that I care about in what I can only perceive to be similar circumstances. Not trying to intrude, just to understand.
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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:09 am

emergenttech wrote:I really don't know what you mean: "brotherhood", I'm slightly bewildered.

All I am doing is showing human concern. If there are dangers surely its best that we learn to minimize them or know their true extent?

@theCryptofishist, Sorry to be so blunt, I too have lost people that I care about in what I can only perceive to be similar circumstances. Not trying to intrude, just to understand.


your screen name is interesting, from whence doth it emerge?
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:18 am

My name comes from emerging technology. I have an interest in new technologies and sciences and emergenttech sounded good!
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:20 am

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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:26 am

very cool.......just wonderin'................
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:51 am

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_technician]Emerge is almost Emergency
Tech is almost technition.[/url] If I made the mistake others can as well. So you might want to know about your near twin.
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:54 am

Ah, now I see the relation, never thought of it like that...
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Postby phil » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:03 pm

ygmir wrote:is there much silica present in playa dust? I thought it was mostly gypsum and some other salts.......

This question of the composition of playa powder is almost a frequently asked question, and the answer is at this URL:
http://www.foresight.org/Conferences/MN ... /Gillett1/
Use your browser's page search faclilty (Command-f on the mac) to search the page for BRP, which is Black Rock Playa. Table 2 shows the components of the "dirt" on the playa. 25% of the ingredients are listed for LOI, which means Lost on Ignition, as explained in the paper (stuff that burns off before they can capture it for analysis).

As for Si02 leading to some health threat, see
http://www.degussa-nano.de/nano/MCMSbase/Pages/ProvideResource.aspx?respath=/NR/rdonlyres/1E02FAD4-E5D6-4CE2-8E5C-E19F4DAC7838/0/Toxicological_Overview_Amorphous_Silica_in_Working_Environment.pdf
which points out that "There is no clear connection between the exposure to synthetic amorphous silica and the presence of chronic respiratory morbidity." (Morbidity means ill health; mortality is when they mean death.) "According to current epidemiological data, there is no evidence of lung cancer or other long-term respiratory health defects in workers employed in the production of synthetic amorphous silica."

For those not involved in a hysterical panic attack, I hope this information will provide some assurance. For those having hysterical panic attacks, there is no hope. For them, my last comment is "42."
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:08 pm

As much as I'd love to take that reassurance Phil, the Silica were are talking about is crystalline silica (on the plya) and the stuff that your link points to...

"Unlike exposure to
crystalline silica, synthetic
amorphous silica does not
induce irreversible or progressive
lung injury. Chronic
inhalation of crystalline silica
can produce lung tumors in
rats, whereas this has not been
shown for amorphous silica."

Crystalline Silica therefore is *A RISK*
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:12 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

I only wish it was amorphous...
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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:28 pm

emergenttech wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

I only wish it was amorphous...

although, in my business, I'm quite familiar with this, thanks for posting it.........good info...........
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:31 pm

ygmir wrote:
emergenttech wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

I only wish it was amorphous...

although, in my business, I'm quite familiar with this,
Then why aren't you dead, Ygmir?

*thinks*

Or are you? It is almost Hallowe'en. *rolls away screaming*
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Postby adam link » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:35 pm

did someone say emerging technology?

i'm just sayin'...
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Postby jkisha » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:40 pm

OK. I'm totally over this thread now; way too boring. See you all elsewhere on eplaya.

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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:41 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote:
emergenttech wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

I only wish it was amorphous...

although, in my business, I'm quite familiar with this,
Then why aren't you dead, Ygmir?

*thinks*

Or are you? It is almost Hallowe'en. *rolls away screaming*


*not quite sure how to take that, scratching head..........*
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:19 pm

ygmir wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote:
emergenttech wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

I only wish it was amorphous...

although, in my business, I'm quite familiar with this,
Then why aren't you dead, Ygmir?

*thinks*

Or are you? It is almost Hallowe'en. *rolls away screaming*


*not quite sure how to take that, scratching head..........*

*sees his shuffling walk*

See, see! Right there, look how he's walking. He's a Zombie I tell you, a Zombie!
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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:25 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:
ygmir wrote:
emergenttech wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel

I only wish it was amorphous...

although, in my business, I'm quite familiar with this,
Then why aren't you dead, Ygmir?

*thinks*

Or are you? It is almost Hallowe'en. *rolls away screaming*


*not quite sure how to take that, scratching head..........*

*sees his shuffling walk*

See, see! Right there, look how he's walking. He's a Zombie I tell you, a Zombie!


I couldn't carry a note in a bucket....

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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:46 pm

Well it looks like we are all breathing in crystalline silica in large quantities. Short of wearing a respirator 24/7 I guess there is little escape from the ambient levels in the air. Its called RCS respirable crystalline Silica.

I guess there should be according to my research an elevated risk for lung cancer amongst BM attendees. However perhaps no-one is looking at the Epidemiology of the participants.

There is no warning of this on the site - other than the dust is a nuisance and NOT an actual hazard.
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:57 pm

In 1996 the International Agency for Research on Cancer classified crystalline silica dust as a human carcinogen (Group 1).
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Postby Boijoy » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:59 pm

Emergen.. I don't think you should go. Burning Man sounds kind of dangerous.
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:03 pm

[quote="Boijoy"]Emergen.. I don't think you should go. Burning Man sounds kind of dangerous.[/quote]

Too late for me. I went this year, had I known the risks *properly* than I would not have come. But I did not find any problems until afterwards by chance.
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:23 pm

Safety links on Silica:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/silica/

Be interested to know what typical levels are observed in dust storms...
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:36 pm

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Postby Simon of the Playa » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:44 pm

Too late for me. I went this year, had I known the risks *properly* than I would not have come. But I did not find any problems until afterwards by chance.





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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:48 pm

I've read plenty of papers where silicosis can occur after shorter periods of time - like the Hawks Tunnel disaster for example.
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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:51 pm

Alright. 20,000 hours as opposed to less than 200.
Just kill yourself now and save the rest of us the bother of doing it ourselves. Cause you've decided that you aint never going to be satisfied.

<plonk>
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