Private Security

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Private Security

Postby CornMan » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:11 pm

I am wondering if any camp/s have hired private security guards to keep their camp/s safe and secure? On one hand there is the conflict of having people working for money on the playa. On the other hand, it would be nice to guard against thieves and overly snoopy people or entities from compromising the experience of the camp's members. It would be really nice if different blocks of camps could chip in to have a security guard to police the vicinity.
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Re: Private Security

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:26 pm

Now there's a distasteful thought.

Plan your camp (or project) intelligently, and I can't possibly imagine you'd ever have any problems. If you really want to up the ante in paranoia, bring locking containers (or go the RV route and lock stuff up when you leave your camp, no need to play radically reliant on others and start booking rent-a-cops.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Kinetik V » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:41 pm

Wow, private security guards on the playa? What's next, gated communities too?

Good camp layout and some strategically placed large vehicles go a lot farther than having a phalanx of rent-a-cops on the playa ever will. File this one under Bad Ideas and let's move on. With the money one would spend on rent a cops you could build a seriously bad ass camp with creative design elements and offer privacy for your people, keep the thugs out of your valuables, and look good doing it!
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Re: Private Security

Postby jkisha » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:51 pm

Kinetik V wrote:What's next, gated communities too?



No. We already have those.
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Re: Private Security

Postby imsodamnedrich » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:03 am

Our two drivers are also trained security specialists. We didn't think it would be fair to make them wear the usual dark suits and sunglasses so they won't really look like the bouncers that they are. They do get to take turns leaving camp. And since they won't be packing their usual heat, we are going to let them drink and do drugs with us.
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Re: Private Security

Postby aserendipity » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:07 am

There is no security

That is important to know

And a lesson you really need to learn
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Re: Private Security

Postby BBadger » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:42 am

Who needs to hire security when you can just get some crazy guys in an RV to help with crimes in exchange for camp amenities?
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Re: Private Security

Postby CornMan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:11 am

The private security at the regional burner events is actually effective. They are given a list of things to watch out for, and they are to not worry about things not on the list. You could get somebody to do a few shifts and wear a uniform for a free ticket, but there is no substitute for a professional security guard, and that might be more in the budgetary realm of the plug & play camps which few of us wish to visit anyway.
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Re: Private Security

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:36 am

BBadger wrote:Who needs to hire security when you can just get some crazy guys in an RV to help with crimes in exchange for camp amenities?

That was truly wicked, Bbadger.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:34 am

***serious face on***


i know we had security, it was volunteer, we had shifts, and it's main purpose was to keep people off of sensitive electronics (humping the subwoofers) or climbing where they shouldnt ( safety third, mr numbnutz acrobat ) and to occasionally herd the random groper towards a ranger.

we did not have it for thievery, except for burn time, one person would volunteer to stay back, there was 200k plus worth of equipment.

the thought of private security is distasteful, but also know this, there are some people on the playa who don't travel without it.

anywhere.

i think that is different than what we are talking about however.


the larger, more frequented camps in prime locations have to make sure that all camp member are aware and alert, it's your home for a week, as well as the playa's playground...it's hard to find that balance without some kind of boundaries.

many "adult camps" will have a "door Person" who is, a bouncer, in essence.

its 50 shades of grey, however.

keep in mind, i have worked events in defaultia, and compared to these other "festivals", in my opinion, Burning Man is an entirely different world in a sense that, BRC is probably one of the SAFER PLACES on earth...i know....seriously....the people, the volunteers, the professionals at BM all work with amazing grace and cooperation compared to many municipalities and venues.

you would think it would be a constant non-stop shit show in the Desert, it's actually highly organized chaos...and i trust my belongings and my personal well being and those with me a lot more on the playa than say in Miami, or any other Metropolitan area, or festival site.

yes, stuff goes missing, yes, people get hurt, yes, bad things happen everywhere.

But I think we deal with it really well on the playa, and the rangers help and the LEOS have eyes everywhere, it's not necessary to hire wackenhut to watch your Pioneer CDJ, just use common sense.

people are people no matter where you go, although i would rather be with dusty people, quite frankly, they tend to be much nicer and trustworthy as a whole.

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Re: Private Security

Postby MyDearFriend » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:09 am

I think there is a huge difference between:

8) having members of your group volunteer to take turns doing whatever you all think needs to be done 8)

and

:evil: paying people (who are not given membership status) to do whatever you deem necessary but can't be bothered with! :evil:

It's not like we have to shovel our own shit, people... :roll:
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Re: Private Security

Postby AntiM » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:21 am

Blocks of camps chip in? What, e'd need ID badges? What about visitors? I get lots of those, many who step into my shade structure to donate art.

Ugh, I find this repulsive. There are many solutions which sit better with me.

Just curious, what was stolen from you that you think this is a solution?
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Re: Private Security

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:26 am

"Regional burner events" apparently. You're going to have to pay for three guys/three shifts. Maybe even a fourth guy, if you intend to have them all week. Plus tickets. I see it as nothing less than a huge black hole in any burningman budget. Most of us are trying to do more with less.
I wonder how long these "regional burner events" were. Long weekend is different than 8 days in a row.
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Re: Private Security

Postby CornMan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:32 am

AntiM wrote:Blocks of camps chip in? What, e'd need ID badges? What about visitors? I get lots of those, many who step into my shade structure to donate art.

Ugh, I find this repulsive. There are many solutions which sit better with me.

Just curious, what was stolen from you that you think this is a solution?


Actually, the fact that the regional events' permits required security caused me to ponder private security at Burning Man.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:37 am

i wanna be a temple goon!
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Re: Private Security

Postby H.G.Crosby » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:39 am

[media]
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Re: Private Security

Postby CornMan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:39 am

The longest permitted regional events I've ever attended were just overnighters. Security was a big enough part of the event to be included in the planning discussion. When the local fire and police authorities inspect the event, they feel OK leaving and that the event does not require ongoing police or sheriff surveillance.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Mojojita » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:45 am

I wish I could count the times I have awakened in the morning to find a random drunk passed out in my camp. I'm always glad we were there for them when they needed shelter. I even keep a bin of wool blankets available just in case.

I'm with AntiM in this, and I find the concept both puzzling and disturbing. You would rather infect the playa with paid security people than have your own camp members take turns watching because you think you need "professionals"? Why would you want to bring anything that valuable on a camping trip in a harsh environment where it is going to become playafied anyway?

Unless you need professional private security in your default life, I can't imagine a heightened need for it on the playa.

I believe that one of the only reasons that some of the regionals use private security is when they have a box office selling tickets at the gate.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Mojojita » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:48 am

For example, LA Decom uses private security as they sell cash tickets at the gate but the LA regional burn, BEquinox, does not use security other than our intrepid Black Rock Rangers. This is because no BEquinox tickets are sold at the gate.
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Re: Private Security

Postby AntiM » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:49 am

CornMan wrote:The longest permitted regional events I've ever attended were just overnighters. Security was a big enough part of the event to be included in the planning discussion. When the local fire and police authorities inspect the event, they feel OK leaving and that the event does not require ongoing police or sheriff surveillance.



Ah. We have plenty of LEOs and rangers. Your camp is relatively safe from targeted theft. You may get entitled burners who think going through your booze is okay, and unchained generators are always a target, as well as tools. In 12 years, worst we had was several lengths of PVC pipe taken from out trailer. Neighboring camps get to know each other, and watch for shady activity. Burn Night sees some camps gone through, most bigger camps just have someone hang back and keep an eye out. Lock valuables up when not in camp, in a vehicle. Always chain your bikes, those do go missing. But other than that, the level of trust and safety is very high.

We're out in the middle of nowhere, not too many casual wanderers snooping around. Used to be more when tickets were plentiful, but I think perhaps the lack of cheap tickets discourages the thieves?
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Re: Private Security

Postby CornMan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:52 am

I'm not taking a stance either way. I just posted it in the Question and Answer forum because I thought it was something interesting to ponder. I'd rather that private security was utilized more thoroughly early in Burning Man's history so that the event wouldn't need to funnel away the much needed law enforcement resources from the streets of the communities in Northern Nevada.
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Re: Private Security

Postby 9ah » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:54 am

CornMan wrote:
AntiM wrote:Blocks of camps chip in? What, e'd need ID badges? What about visitors? I get lots of those, many who step into my shade structure to donate art.

Ugh, I find this repulsive. There are many solutions which sit better with me.

Just curious, what was stolen from you that you think this is a solution?


Actually, the fact that the regional events' permits required security caused me to ponder private security at Burning Man.



That's why there are LEOs... And Rangers.... You do know the LEOs aren't volutneering. Consider them your private, paid security and cut your losses....

Now I'm curious, what was stolen? If it was your dignity, I doubt you'll get it back.

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Re: Private Security

Postby Savannah » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:09 pm

AntiM wrote:
CornMan wrote:The longest permitted regional events I've ever attended were just overnighters. Security was a big enough part of the event to be included in the planning discussion. When the local fire and police authorities inspect the event, they feel OK leaving and that the event does not require ongoing police or sheriff surveillance.



Ah. We have plenty of LEOs and rangers. Your camp is relatively safe from targeted theft. You may get entitled burners who think going through your booze is okay, and unchained generators are always a target, as well as tools. In 12 years, worst we had was several lengths of PVC pipe taken from out trailer. Neighboring camps get to know each other, and watch for shady activity. Burn Night sees some camps gone through, most bigger camps just have someone hang back and keep an eye out. Lock valuables up when not in camp, in a vehicle. Always chain your bikes, those do go missing. But other than that, the level of trust and safety is very high.

We're out in the middle of nowhere, not too many casual wanderers snooping around. Used to be more when tickets were plentiful, but I think perhaps the lack of cheap tickets discourages the thieves?


That's how I see it. The only thing ever stolen from my camp in 8 Burns was an iPod left in plain sight in an unlocked van. Whoops.

Private security costs way more than the value of anything most people can make off with. And in a camp of more than 20 or 30, security guards can't possibly recognize everyone + friends + visitors in a series of ever-changing costumes, wigs and cleanliness levels. :lol:
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Re: Private Security

Postby Mojojita » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:09 pm

I don't think we can assume that if we had used private security at any time in the past that it would have had any effect on the levels of policing the event by LEOs. As you mentioned, private security looks for specific things and does not bother with others. LEO's are tasked with enforcing the law, not just protecting your personal property. The entities that they work for have a responsibility to ensure the health and safety of the people within their territory.

This is particularly true as BM is held on public land. Again, the example of LA Decom and BEquinox comes to mind. Decom is held in a public park, hence security and light LEO presence, BEquinox is on private property and we had no LEO presence, or need for it.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Eric » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:16 pm

CornMan wrote:I'm not taking a stance either way. I just posted it in the Question and Answer forum because I thought it was something interesting to ponder. I'd rather that private security was utilized more thoroughly early in Burning Man's history so that the event wouldn't need to funnel away the much needed law enforcement resources from the streets of the communities in Northern Nevada.


You do realize that the largest Regional is in the 4,000 person range, and that BRC is a city of roughly 60,000 people, right? There is no way in hell that the county, state & Federal Gov'ts are going to let that many people gather for a planned event that shuts down part of a public wilderness for 2 months & not be involved, regardless of how much "private security" had been involved at the beginning (and can you seriously see the Cacophony Society having private security on hand?)

The only thing ever taken from one of our camps was a bicycle, and it wasn't locked (and we were right on the Esplanade). Luckily it got taken sometime early Monday morning after the Temple burn, so the owner wasn't too put out about it. Even the year we stayed with the workers in a turn-key camp there wasn't private security, and those were well off people (including a "big-shot" movie producer). Someone from the camp would just take turns watching it while people were away, just like any other camp. Hell, we've left our camp completely empty when we're based in Center Camp & never had a problem, getting to know your neighbors is very effective (and friendly)

I find the idea of paid private security gross, at best.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Simon of the Playa » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:24 pm

i think one thing the larger "club like" sound camps, especially ones with 'Nooks & crannies" or "chill spaces" have to be particularly aware of is the "creepy gropey guys."....You know the Ones.

many times , the tiny dancers end up passing out in some benign cuddle puddle only to wake up with someone feeling them up or down.

this shit is not acceptable and we would patrol to check for "safe words" :twisted:

but seriously, watch out for those who are either dehydrated, under the influence, tired, or all three.

they are easy prey.

pretend they are your little sister, or your first girlfriend, or your cousin, or your mom as a young woman, someone who needs your help because they are unable at that moment to help themselves.

do not walk away because its "none of your business"....it is.

just ask, "are you with him?" "is this ok"..."Just checking...have a nice night, or..."Alright Buddy, id like to talk to you...NOW."

this is also "security", and in my opinion, should be a priority.....

we should Always Look out for each other, ANYWHERE you go, but in the dark of night, in a party atmosphere, is the time to most keep your eyes open.

also, the "vibe" sort of changes on thursday night-sunday crowd versus the early pass-wed feel...and this is based on demographics and the influx of weekend burners.

it is all about consent...and those in charge of large camps should probably have a discussion as to what to do in certain situations that may arise with all of the camp members so they are all on the same page.

just my thoughts on the matter, it's one of the many things to consider when planning, what is the "procedure" and protocols for dealing with these potentialities.

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Re: Private Security

Postby AntiM » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:29 pm

"Serious Face"... I know what tattoo I'm buying if I ever have the cash.

But thank you for bringing this up. Very important, indeed.
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Re: Private Security

Postby gibson_ » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:53 pm

I like you, Simon.
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Re: Private Security

Postby CornMan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:57 pm

Yes, Simon's posts are pretty insightful along with many others here.
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Re: Private Security

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:39 pm

"just try to blend in"
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