radical self-reliance

Questions, answers, tips & tricks for newbies and veterans alike

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby VultureChow » Fri May 10, 2013 1:30 pm

fresh wrote:
Captain Goddammit wrote:
fresh wrote: I would say very few individuals SOLELY do not depend on anyone else in every single aspect of their burn. That is why people camp together.


I wouldn't say that!
I've never not taken care of ALL my own logistics and my friends do the same.
We camp together because we're friends and like to hang out together, not because we don't have our shit handled already.

I always understood that's the deal at Burning Man and the survival guide makes it pretty clear too.


Yes after re-reading this, I must recant much of this statement, but also defend it at the same time. Yes an oxymoron. Many do bring everything they need to survive, everything. Many pool resources. I know our camp we have some pooled/communal resources such as kitchen and shower. I left my big sledgehammer at home, why, because I knew there were at least two others bringing theirs. So that was a good 15lbs i did not have to weigh down my car on that 1000 mile drive yet i still brought my hand sledge.
Now i highlighted SOLELY along with "every single aspect". I know, you all got your shit together, but do you every have some one do the following: make you a drink, serve you a meal, provide you with shade? I would say yes. Therefore you are not SOLELY self-reliant. Someone has helped you even if you don't need it. I will say that being radically self reliant also includes making sure shit will show up and that you also have a backup plan.

We all can't be FigJam.


I think being completely and utterly self-reliant is (a) impossible and (b) pointless.

It's good to strive to. To have everything you need to survive. But there is survive and there is thrive. You will forget something. You will be unable to set up your shade without a hand. You will accept food/drink/shower/shade from someone because you want to rather than going back to camp and mixing yourself a martini.

Few will show up without a way to survive. A tent might be uncomfortable without shade, but it's still a place to sleep. Water and cup o noodles may be boring, but it is still sustenance.

The real goal should be to contribute more than you receive. To add to the event and the lives around you than to leach from them. Not bringing shade, or a sledgehammer or 1000 otter pops isn't failing at self-reliance until you become a net burden to the community. It's just a different way to burn.
Send lawyers, guns and money - The shit has hit the fan.
User avatar
VultureChow
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:08 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Cougar Camp @ Barbie Death Village

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Fri May 10, 2013 1:32 pm

Some one inviting me to share a meal or a drink. Has nothing to do with my radical self reliance..

I have done three day treks with only 11 pounds of food/gear.. That is radical self reliance..
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Fri May 10, 2013 1:39 pm

Opps, I had to borrow a hand full of zip ties once.. Guess that puts me in the unprepared/leach pigeon hole..
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri May 10, 2013 1:41 pm

unjonharley wrote:Some one inviting me to share a meal or a drink. Has nothing to do with my radical self reliance..



I can't believe I have to agree with that doo doo head unjon, but I gotta agree.
"Whaoomph! Whaomph! Burbbleburbblepattpattpattpatt... WHAAAAAaaoooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa........!!!"
Top fuel dragster, by Elliot Naess
User avatar
Captain Goddammit
 
Posts: 4502
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: Camp Fuck The Vehicle Passes

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby fresh » Fri May 10, 2013 2:38 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
unjonharley wrote:Some one inviting me to share a meal or a drink. Has nothing to do with my radical self reliance..



I can't believe I have to agree with that doo doo head unjon, but I gotta agree.



Ok i agree with both of y'all. My point is moot.
"All the worlds indeed a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers.
Each another's audience inside the gilded cage." - N. Peart
"SAFETY THIRD" - Some idiot
User avatar
fresh
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:53 am
Location: Roaring Fork Valley, CO
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Black Rock Roller Disco

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby FIGJAM » Fri May 10, 2013 5:16 pm

fresh wrote:We all can't be FigJam.


Why the hell not! :wink:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me
User avatar
FIGJAM
 
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby maladroit » Fri May 10, 2013 5:32 pm

FIGJAM wrote:
fresh wrote:We all can't be FigJam.


Why the hell not! :wink:


That's actually true, you post every detail of what you do, so there's no reason someone couldn't build a duplicate setup.
maladroit
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby FIGJAM » Fri May 10, 2013 5:37 pm

Just trying to help. :oops:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me
User avatar
FIGJAM
 
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Fri May 10, 2013 5:40 pm

da Vinci was known to flaw his designs.. So no one would copy them..For instance
his student flawed the first bicycle drawing (1492).. Looks like the peddles will not work.
Slightly change the design and it would work fine
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri May 10, 2013 7:08 pm

maladroit wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:It's my on-going fight to have people respect my independence...
Yeah, sometimes I need some assistance. Tends to make me insist more when I don't need it, if you understand what I mean.


Does it bother you when people ask if you need help with some task, or do you always prefer to initiate contact with someone and ask them?

Probably the most infuriating is when people "ask" and then proceed to fumble their "help" into your life without listening to your answer.

Don't ever interrupt me when I'm doing something important, such as reading, to ask if I need help. There are some cases when it's okay to ask--context clues, like I'm struggling with something and catch your eye, might be a guide. I do hate it. It's like the whole world thinks I'm 4 years old and shouldn't be let out without a babysitter or parent. And boy, the number of people who insist on opening a door for me--and then standing in the fucking doorway? How does anyone get to be that kind of stupid? Or they stand in such a way that I have to go under their arm, like it's the Sir Roger de Coverly. Really, if I wanted to dance like they did in Jane Austin's day, I'd join the Jane Austin Society. Ideally, it should be like it is for anybody else. There is a natural give and take of holding open doors and stepping out of someone's way on the sidewalk, that sort of thing. To always have to take, and never give--it's like never being good enough.
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Fri May 10, 2013 7:39 pm

The stupidest thing I have seen: I was in a store with the scooter.. A kid about nine years old was standing in my way.. He was looking at some thing and didn't see me.. So I waited for him notice me..His old man was just across from him..
When he sees me.. He picked the kid up by the bottom of his skull.. That must have hurt like a son-of-a-bitch.. My son was walking behind me.. As I passed them my son put his nose right on the guy nose and screamed.."Way to abuse the kid" The chicken shit didn't want any thing to do with my son, who was hoping he'd jump bad at him.
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby maladroit » Fri May 10, 2013 8:01 pm

unjonharley wrote:The stupidest thing I have seen: I was in a store with the scooter.. A kid about nine years old was standing in my way.. He was looking at some thing and didn't see me.. So I waited for him notice me..His old man was just across from him..
When he sees me.. He picked the kid up by the bottom of his skull.. That must have hurt like a son-of-a-bitch.. My son was walking behind me.. As I passed them my son put his nose right on the guy nose and screamed.."Way to abuse the kid" The chicken shit didn't want any thing to do with my son, who was hoping he'd jump bad at him.


There were no winners in that story.
maladroit
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby fresh » Fri May 10, 2013 8:52 pm

maladroit wrote:
FIGJAM wrote:
fresh wrote:We all can't be FigJam.


Why the hell not! :wink:


That's actually true, you post every detail of what you do, so there's no reason someone couldn't build a duplicate setup.


How about, We can be as COOL as FIGJAM!!! :mrgreen:
"All the worlds indeed a stage and we are merely players, performers and portrayers.
Each another's audience inside the gilded cage." - N. Peart
"SAFETY THIRD" - Some idiot
User avatar
fresh
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:53 am
Location: Roaring Fork Valley, CO
Burning Since: 2001
Camp Name: Black Rock Roller Disco

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby FIGJAM » Fri May 10, 2013 9:05 pm

I'm more tepid than cool. :P
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me
User avatar
FIGJAM
 
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Fri May 10, 2013 9:18 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I'm more tepid than cool. :P


more like ambient control
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri May 10, 2013 10:12 pm

fresh wrote:How about, We can be as COOL as FIGJAM!!!


Only if we all build FIGJAM coolers. But even then, we'd still just be wannabes.
"Whaoomph! Whaomph! Burbbleburbblepattpattpattpatt... WHAAAAAaaoooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa........!!!"
Top fuel dragster, by Elliot Naess
User avatar
Captain Goddammit
 
Posts: 4502
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: Camp Fuck The Vehicle Passes

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby maladroit » Fri May 10, 2013 10:17 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Don't ever interrupt me when I'm doing something important, such as reading, to ask if I need help.


People ask if you need help reading? :lol:

theCryptofishist wrote:Ideally, it should be like it is for anybody else. There is a natural give and take of holding open doors and stepping out of someone's way on the sidewalk, that sort of thing. To always have to take, and never give--it's like never being good enough.


That seems fair enough. On Wednesday I was loading a couple pieces of plywood in my truck and someone walking by asked if I needed any help. I had it under control so I said no, and we went about our respective days with no one thinking any less of the other, or getting bent out of shape. I've done the same thing a number of times and either been told "no" or helped load up.

In any case, if we ever run across each other and I'm trying to get through a door while carrying something and you let it close, I'll go ahead and be slightly pissed off.
maladroit
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby CornMan » Fri May 10, 2013 10:35 pm

What it comes down to is radical $elf reliance. Given the same resources, there are people that could not survive a month on their own in open playa conditions but are considered golden with their money compared to some survivalist hippies who could. My ex-brother in law is such a survivalist hippie, and he could out fish anybody, out hunt, out anything survival related, but he's a drifter at heart which equals less $$$.
The camp with a difference
Never mind the weather
When you camp with Plug & Ply
Your holiday's forever
User avatar
CornMan
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby tatonka » Fri May 10, 2013 10:40 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
maladroit wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:It's my on-going fight to have people respect my independence...
Yeah, sometimes I need some assistance. Tends to make me insist more when I don't need it, if you understand what I mean.


Does it bother you when people ask if you need help with some task, or do you always prefer to initiate contact with someone and ask them?

Probably the most infuriating is when people "ask" and then proceed to fumble their "help" into your life without listening to your answer.

Don't ever interrupt me when I'm doing something important, such as reading, to ask if I need help. There are some cases when it's okay to ask--context clues, like I'm struggling with something and catch your eye, might be a guide. I do hate it. It's like the whole world thinks I'm 4 years old and shouldn't be let out without a babysitter or parent. And boy, the number of people who insist on opening a door for me--and then standing in the fucking doorway? How does anyone get to be that kind of stupid? Or they stand in such a way that I have to go under their arm, like it's the Sir Roger de Coverly. Really, if I wanted to dance like they did in Jane Austin's day, I'd join the Jane Austin Society. Ideally, it should be like it is for anybody else. There is a natural give and take of holding open doors and stepping out of someone's way on the sidewalk, that sort of thing. To always have to take, and never give--it's like never being good enough.


If I see ya out there on the playa ya want me to say " hey get out of my way " :)
winners never quit , quitters never win

4 wheels move the body , two wheels moves the soul

Music is the great healer of the soul
User avatar
tatonka
 
Posts: 1135
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:28 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Rancho Deluxe

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby TT120 » Sat May 11, 2013 8:37 am

I don't always want help even if I am struggling with something. I kind of like figuring out how to do things on my own. Take a shade structure for example. I know it would be easier to set up with 2 people but I want to do it by myself for personal satisfaction.

Even though I'm with a camp this year, I will have all my needs covered without relying on anything from the camp. That way, no matter what happens, I can fall back on my own supplies and still have a great burn.
Life's a bitch, then you go to Burning Man - Unjonharley

W6BJD
User avatar
TT120
 
Posts: 953
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:43 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA.
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: Orphans Too

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Sat May 11, 2013 8:46 am

TT120 wrote:I don't always want help even if I am struggling with something. I kind of like figuring out how to do things on my own. Take a shade structure for example. I know it would be easier to set up with 2 people but I want to do it by myself for personal satisfaction.

Even though I'm with a camp this year, I will have all my needs covered without relying on anything from the camp. That way, no matter what happens, I can fall back on my own supplies and still have a great burn.


Now, that's the way to plan..

One year, A guy come into camp asking if we had a pan cake turner. Seems he was the breakfast pan cake man and forgot to bring one.. Just happened that I had thrown in an extra.. Later he served me a stack of blueberry pancakes
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat May 11, 2013 10:00 am

Being crippled means you never get to say, If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. In fact, if you do say it, people are likely to attack you for it.
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Sat May 11, 2013 10:55 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Being crippled means you never get to say, If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. In fact, if you do say it, people are likely to attack you for it.



That is why i never invite people into my shop.. I just do the best I can and ask question on eplaya.. My employer added lights and lifts for me and stayed out of my way.. That's a good reason to stay thirty years.. He also made it a CO. rule to not touch anything on my work bench.. I could not see much.

After a lot of drugs,surgery and miles of workouts i'm doing real good.. Still want to do it myself..
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sat May 11, 2013 11:59 am

TT120 wrote:
Even though I'm with a camp this year, I will have all my needs covered without relying on anything from the camp. That way, no matter what happens, I can fall back on my own supplies and still have a great burn.


Dingdingdingding!!!!! We have a winner!!!

Attention all new burners: this is "How To Go To Burning Man".
"Whaoomph! Whaomph! Burbbleburbblepattpattpattpatt... WHAAAAAaaoooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa........!!!"
Top fuel dragster, by Elliot Naess
User avatar
Captain Goddammit
 
Posts: 4502
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: Camp Fuck The Vehicle Passes

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby maladroit » Sat May 11, 2013 4:48 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
TT120 wrote:
Even though I'm with a camp this year, I will have all my needs covered without relying on anything from the camp. That way, no matter what happens, I can fall back on my own supplies and still have a great burn.


Dingdingdingding!!!!! We have a winner!!!

Attention all new burners: this is "How To Go To Burning Man".


Well, it's partly because all of you on ePlaya that I was 100% self-reliant last year with my own furniture, kitchen, food, shade structure, medical supplies, solar power, etc. My neighbors refused to believe it was my first year.
maladroit
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby unjonharley » Sat May 11, 2013 4:52 pm

maladroit wrote:

Well, it's partly because all of you on ePlaya that I was 100% self-reliant last year with my own furniture, kitchen, food, shade structure, medical supplies, solar power, etc. My neighbors refused to believe it was my first year.


It's all down hill now.. Every plan has a flaw after the first year..
User avatar
unjonharley
 
Posts: 8798
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:05 am
Location: Salem Or.

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby maladroit » Sat May 11, 2013 5:27 pm

unjonharley wrote:
maladroit wrote:

Well, it's partly because all of you on ePlaya that I was 100% self-reliant last year with my own furniture, kitchen, food, shade structure, medical supplies, solar power, etc. My neighbors refused to believe it was my first year.


It's all down hill now.. Every plan has a flaw after the first year..


That's guaranteed, since this year I'll be there for two weeks...
maladroit
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat May 11, 2013 5:29 pm

maladroit wrote:
Captain Goddammit wrote:
TT120 wrote:
Even though I'm with a camp this year, I will have all my needs covered without relying on anything from the camp. That way, no matter what happens, I can fall back on my own supplies and still have a great burn.


Dingdingdingding!!!!! We have a winner!!!

Attention all new burners: this is "How To Go To Burning Man".


Well, it's partly because all of you on ePlaya that I was 100% self-reliant last year with my own furniture, kitchen, food, shade structure, medical supplies, solar power, etc. My neighbors refused to believe it was my first year.

Ah, another stealth virgin...

Induct her into the hall of fame!
Simon's real sig line?

Embrace the Sock

Winners never quilt, quilters never win...
User avatar
theCryptofishist
 
Posts: 37425
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:28 am
Location: In Exile
Burning Since: 2017

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby Elliot » Sat May 11, 2013 5:57 pm

Image


Image


Building this shade onto the bus took about a week of part-time activity, using my neighbor’s driveway and some of the public street for workspace. Then I assembled it on Playa in one long day. All singlehanded. Let me tell you something: It feels good to Get Stuff Done by myself.

I believe more people ought to try it. I shuddered when I read the post about the on-Playa rental camping trailer complete with a supply of paper plates. It is sad how little those people get out of BM. (And I don’t want to think about whether they contribute anything.)

(Yeah, I know I'm bragging about my shade. So maybe I'm related to Figjam. :wink: )
Elliot's Bicycle Service, Camel Saddlery and Beverage Salon 5 & G as before, probably.
Ali Elliot Fy Fasan, proprietor

Caravansary Black Rock 2014



ImageImageImage
Millicent The Bus; pedal-vehicles on Playa and in Kinetic Sculpture Races.
User avatar
Elliot
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:41 pm
Location: Clearlake, Northern California
Burning Since: 2006
Camp Name: Elliot’s Bicycle & Beverage Emporium

Re: radical self-reliance

Postby maladroit » Sat May 11, 2013 6:15 pm

It is comfortable shade in the middle of the desert, and therefore braggable.
maladroit
 
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

PreviousNext

Return to Q & A Tips and Tricks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests