Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

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Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby number3 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:45 am

Hey guys!

I'm working on my art car for next year, going to be putting on 3 flame throwers (2 propane, 1 kerosene). Pressurization, starter flames... All of it pretty new to me. What has worked for you guys? Any got'chas that come up? One thread talked about using nitrogen as a pressurizer instead of a air compressor (love the idea).
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Snow » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:48 am

don't use compressed air it contains oxygen!!!! and you can't use liquid fueled effects on vehicle, so no kerosene. PLEASE know what you are doing. There are classes you can take for adding flame effects to your art. I doubt they have been scheduled yet. I assume you've read the page on the Burning Man website about flame effects and art?

Also note that a flame thrower is a weapon frowned upon by the ATF, flame effects are what you're talking about.
Last edited by Snow on Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Snow » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:58 am

"Art Is Not A Mirror, It Is A Hammer" - Jon Griersam
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby number3 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:37 pm

Cool, great link and great advice... Read some posts about people using nitrogen as a back-end compressor. I'm in Austin, and 'bout to meet up with the local burner crowd. Wanted to ask you guys...



New Question:

Looking to control the flame art pieces via DMX (I've got everything figured out up to the point of the actual control on the flame art device. Let's take the propane ones as an example.... Any ideas?
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Snow » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:28 pm

Nitrogen is use for liquid devices which are not allowed on mutant vehicles.

I don't know of a quick and easy way to interface DMX with a flame effect. Are you wanting to assign it a specific address? What specific parameters are you trying to control? In addition to flame effects I do stage lighting so am pretty familiar with DMX controllers. We have ways to interface with computer controls and imagine that DMX would be similar, but all our stuff is custom built.

Do your research into "the point of control" on the flame device and the rest of the safety stuff and we'll talk. I'll give you one hint, you can only control open and dwell time, there is no kind of fade control like most addressable DMX devices (within reason, I do know a way to do it but it would be very expensive and might not have the results you want).
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby The CO » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:34 am

number3 wrote: 3 flame throwers (2 propane, 1 kerosene). Pressurization, starter flames... All of it pretty new to me.


1 kerosene is going to create more issues than you want. Start here, and work from there. Liquid fuels drop (gravity is a harsh mistress) excess fuel to the ground. Gas fuels let excess fuel disperse upwards.

Also, "flamethrowers" are regulated by the US Govt (including all of Texas, sorry, but you guys are not your own country yet) as weapons. "Flame Effect Pyrotechnic Devices" are not, and are regulated by your states laws. If that sentence makes no sense, you are not ready to build one.

(DMX is just another computer language, one must know how to create safe pyro before worrying about adding it to a DMX link...)
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby StevenGoodman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:03 pm

"Flame Effect Pyrotechnic Devices" - "Propane Based Flame Effect Device" is a better description, since no pyrotechnics are involved, i.e. nothing explodes, it just burns.

Just like your gas barbeque!

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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby illy dilly » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:48 pm

StevenGoodman wrote:"Flame Effect Pyrotechnic Devices" - "Propane Based Flame Effect Device" is a better description, since no pyrotechnics are involved, i.e. nothing explodes, it just burns.

Just like your gas barbeque!

Martini Steve

So in the future we will use the code phrase "Spitting Barbeque" when talking about flame effects around LEO.
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby EspressoDude » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:21 pm

StevenGoodman wrote:"Flame Effect Pyrotechnic Devices" - "Propane Based Flame Effect Device" is a better description, since no pyrotechnics are involved, i.e. nothing explodes, it just burns.

Just like your gas barbeque!

Martini Steve



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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby gyre » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:27 am

The CO wrote: (including all of Texas, sorry, but you guys are not your own country again yet)
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Foxfur » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:45 pm

Flamethrowers are totally unregulated by the ATF or any federal law. They are considered non-firearms and are not regulated as Title II NFA AOW's or Destructive Devices (26 USC sec. 5801 et seq.)


DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES

26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(f) "The term destructive device
means
1) any explosive, incendiary or poison gas
A) bomb
B) grenade
C) rocket having propellant charge of more than four
ounces
D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of
more than one-quarter ounce
E) mine, or
F) similar device
2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or
may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the
action of a explosive or other propellant, the barrel or
barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in
diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the
Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as
particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and
3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for
use in converting any device into a destructive device as
defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a
destructive device may be readily assembled. The term
'destructive device' shall not include any device which is
neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any
device although originally designed for use as a weapon,
which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic,
line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance
sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant
to the provisions of section 4684(2), 4685 or 4686 of title
10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the
Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate finds is not
likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a
rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting
purposes."

I have two propane and three diesel / oil shooters. We use em to start the burn piles and clear snow and ice.
Fire it up, bitches! :D
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:14 pm

Just get in on video, whatever you do.
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby teardropper » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:16 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Just get in on video, whatever you do.


No shit...

As noted, no liquid fuel. And please, for your sake and those around you, know what you are doing. At best, with knowing what you are doing and being super careful, these things are dangerous. It's fire.

Remember, Safety Third...

I love poofers and big fire.
\^/
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Foxfur » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:42 pm

Here's how you do it!

DSCN9999.JPG



And hi there Teardropper! It greatly enjoyed meeting you at Burnout Decompression!
I had a great time hangin out :D
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby teardropper » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:22 am

Image

Yes sir, Mr Foxfur. Helluva day. Nice poofers, huh? ...in Downtown Portland. Let us do it again...
\^/
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby teardropper » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:27 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_9uQN-PyGE

Some spinners and great poofers. This is the way to do it. Thank you, Portland...

Oh yeah, in the rain...
\^/
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby oneeyeddick » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:07 pm

nice video. 8)
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby Nipple » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:23 pm

I loved the poofers in the bed of the pickup. It was musical!
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby BlackRockCityPimp » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:06 pm

If you have to ask for help you prolly should not undertake something like this. That being said I know the Crucible in Oakland had classes in the past concerning art thats fire oriented and the control of effects but I cant speak for the current classes available as I am not in Cali. Asking for advice about ANYTHING this dangerous on the internet is also the worst thing to do IMHO. If it were me I would participate, try to get into a great fire art installation with a good seasoned crew and pickup what you can while working with them. Most of the artists on the playa are very skilled and very personable, BUT during the event they can be quite busy and unable to hold your hand and/or teach you. Volunteer, gain trust and prove your not someone too out of control and you will likely learn what you need. As mentioned language is very important when it comes to the law. Good luck with your art and hope you dont kill yourself.
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:07 pm

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Get a Taint, you pathetic cur!
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Re: Building some flame throwers... Thoughts?

Postby TomServo » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:06 pm

anything worth doing is worth overdoing..
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