Gray water ...Again..

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Postby Stormy » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:46 am

Please do not dump any of you water onto the playa. Even the water from your cooler ice. You brought it - you haul it


If it's clean water, free of moop, then it would be as clean as or cleaner than the water, from Frog Pond, sprayed on the street. Clean well dispersed water helps keep the dust down, right?
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Postby SilkenTofu » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:42 pm

yeah I thought that water, clean water, from melted ice is okay to spread evenly on the playa. The water looks dirty but that is just from playa dust getting into the cooler. We usually have one cooler deadicated to canned and plastic bottled beverages that when we replenish the ice, the water is dispersed. sometimes we pour the ice cold water into a bucket for a foot bath, if that happens then this water gets strained and then goes in the evap pond or if no soap or chemicals used then this is just playa muddy water.
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Postby unjonharley » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:59 pm

Stormy wrote:If it's clean water, free of moop, then it would be as clean as or cleaner than the water, from Frog Pond, sprayed on the street. Clean well dispersed water helps keep the dust down, right?


/\
I was calling it tight for a reson. Alot of dorks figure if one drop is ok then why not dump everything. Hell they cant figure out NOT to dump anythiing in the pots.
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Postby Bob A » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 pm

Here is a new twist from the new survival guide
The DPW is not accepting water donations this year. Do not leave water at the Gate as you leave. Plan as accurately as possible, but if you have excess and must dispose of it, use it as dust abatement for your campsite (not the road) as you leave.


That will open the floodgates so to speak for people to dump their not so clean cooler water etc. Even though that water is not clean and should not be dumped without a complete cleaning if at all.

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Postby TheJudge » Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:33 pm

Coffee filters work great for getting a lot of the foreign junk out of cooler and shower water. Once its filtered, spraying it on the road should be fine. Just dont pour it in one spot. Get a garden sprayer or use a cooler with wheels to make patterns in the dust.

I was trying to design a way to pour all my gray water into a container in the back of my truck that sprays the water as I drive, but shuts it off when I stop. Sort of a personal water truck.
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Postby playa hugger » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:43 pm

unjonharley wrote:
Stormy wrote:If it's clean water, free of moop, then it would be as clean as or cleaner than the water, from Frog Pond, sprayed on the street. Clean well dispersed water helps keep the dust down, right?


/\
I was calling it tight for a reson. Alot of dorks figure if one drop is ok then why not dump everything. Hell they cant figure out NOT to dump anythiing in the pots.


Yes, it's partly a matter of scale, but also a matter of public health and safety: even small amounts bacteria-laden grey water, albeit filtered, can pose a significant health risk. Its hard to argue thay sprinkling a tiny bit of filtered grey water on the playa in the heat of the day is a problem. But grey water, filtered or not, that hasn't been treated, can be a nasty disease vector either sitting openly in that evaporation pond or packed away in the barrels for transport home. So whatever your grey water plan, consider the difference between filtration alone and filtration and treatment.
I was reminded of this by a friend's recent violent episode of GI distress after camping with other Burners in the desert over the holiday. The common rules of hygeine apply in BRC just as they do at home. If we forget the reasons why we rely on clean sources of water and waste waste water maagement in our off-playa lives, we become vulnerable to all the unpleasant consequences of contaminated water.
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Postby Captain Goddammit » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:49 am

Grey water will kill anything it touches immediately.
Therefore, you should dye all your old water green or orange.
Then, since it ain't grey, you can dump it.
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Postby robotland » Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:32 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:Grey water will kill anything it touches immediately.
Therefore, you should dye all your old water green or orange.
Then, since it ain't grey, you can dump it.


...The old grey water ain't what she used to be......


....Old grey water, keep on moooo-vin'.....Ne-vada moon, won't you keep on shinin' on meeeeee......
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Postby robbidobbs » Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:35 pm

Fer pete's sake, nothing from your cooler water is going to survive the desication of the Playa. That's why we don't stink after a week out there. Bacteria can't survive the pH of the dirt, let alone the dryness.

And they tell you not to put in the roads before you leave because it creates mud, and then potholes. If you pour it out when there's no traffic, it dries, there's a crust on the road, and everyone's happy.
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Postby ness » Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:47 pm

You are so right robbidobbs , bacteria can not live on the playa NONE.....
so dump your cooler water in front of my camp PLEASE I hate dust.
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Grey water considerations

Postby playa hugger » Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:34 pm

A little scattering of cooler water or sprinkling small amounts of clean or lightly organic water on the playa doesn't seem like a problem. Under the right conditions, in the right hands. Water undeniably keeps down the dust, best when sprinkled widely to form tiny clods.
Some are concerned with the misguided extension of those practices. Which happens. Weather conditions, location,timing, etc. all apply here. A lot of bad decisions happen when camps are trying to pack up to leave, when the weather turns, when infrastructure fails, when people crash.

Important to me are some misinformed or careless practices that can mar the playa or make us sick:
1. Letting crud (hair, food, etc.)from unfiltered grey water hit the ground
2 .Creating muddy messes, puddles. pits, or ruts with discharge
3. Mishandling grey water
-Grey water should be safely contained and separated from casual contact
-Filtering alone does not disinfect the water
-Grey water that isn't treated should be respected as a source of pathogens(critters that make us sick), whether in an evaporation pond, bucket, or barrel

That said, we can choose among whatever grey water options or designs suit our camp size and resources: tiny sprinkles, evaporation, reuse, packing it out, JOTS, or some combination.
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:54 pm

Yo playa hugger, xnay on the jotsnay. If our own fuck-wits get the idea it would mean a large disastor for all BM. Do the math.

I'm stickig with: Straining the used water for large moop. Drieing the strainings and haul it home. Then boiling off the strained water into the air. expelig small droplet of clean water. With the small/tiny moop left in the boilling, container. Even what is left will be clean after boiling. Still plan on taking it home. With a little testing a camp larger than mine could the same. Un like the big i saw. They get up early in the morning and throw there waste water out on the streets. The guy i saw damn near dosed me with bucket full.
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Postby Chai Guy » Sat Jul 17, 2004 5:56 pm

Yep, the no grey water is a scale thing and LCID thing (lowest common idiot denominator). The problem isn't that people are going to get sick because you dumped your dirty cooler water on the playa or that by dumping dirty cooler or shower water you're somehow going to upset the delicate ecosystem of the playa chicken, rather the problem is that most water will have some kind of floaties in it be it food particles, packaging labels, body paint, hair and other tiny moop particles.

My solution for grey water this year is to filter the particles out using an aquarium filter pump and then to purify the water using the Miox filtering system (designed for backpackers, it's the same system the U.S. Navy uses aboard it's ships). It's small, relatively inexpensive, purifies gallons of water at a time and will mean using much, much less water for showers, and therefore much less grey water to deal with (I plan on packing all the grey water home).

Check it out: http://www.msrcorp.com/filters/miox.asp
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:08 pm

Chai Guy, I realy like your filtering idea. Will stick with mine for this year. I plan for a bout 3qts. of waste water a day and containers for cooler water. There is a waste water dump about 100 miles out on our way home. I travel with a van and trailer so room is not problem. Hate to have the weight going out. There is a big climb before the dump
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Postby playa hugger » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:09 pm

[quote="unjonharley"]Yo playa hugger, xnay on the jotsnay. If our own fuck-wits get the idea it would mean a large disastor for all BM. Do the math.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. My JOTS reference is to a contract arrangement some large use camps are making with our porta-potty company for paid removal of their grey water. It's an option camps have if they make arrangements well in advance. No grey water in the porta-potties intended or implied here.
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Postby unjonharley » Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:15 pm

playa hugger wrote:
unjonharley wrote:Yo playa hugger, xnay on the jotsnay. If our own fuck-wits get the idea it would mean a large disastor for all BM. Do the math.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. My JOTS reference is to a contract arrangement some large use camps are making with our porta-potty company for paid removal of their grey water. It's an option camps have if they make arrangements well in advance. No grey water in the porta-potties intended or implied here.


/\
Thanks for clearing that up. Like I said about our own F-Ws will run with any thing that sound easy.
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Postby robbidobbs » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:57 am

>Yo playa hugger, xnay on the jotsnay. If our own fuck-wits get the idea >it would mean a large disastor for all BM. Do the math.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT! Don't even THINK of puting your grey water into the JotS potties! CHRIST!

You can ask JotS to come by your camp and empty out your grey water container for a fee. This system is rational if 1) you have a large group and 2) you have a decent container to store it in -- one that can be emptied out with a pump truck hose.

And about unfiltered grey water -- the debris isn't going to kill you once it's dry, but the DPW people might if they have to bend down to pick up every last desicated chunk.
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Grey water disposal

Postby playa hugger » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:51 pm

Someone did the math. Grey water dumped in the potties is a very BAD idea.
Kent posted this yesterday on the pottie list:
I am confident that we can get even more message to folks. I will try
adding the gray water message this year:

*****************
We are at capacity to dispose of waste.
Each person passes about a quart of waste through their bodies every day.
If each person added only as much as one gallon a day of gray water to the
potties, that would mean that there would have to be FIVE TIMES
AS MANY TRUCKLOADS of waste traveling the over 250 mile round trip to the
already at capacity waste plant. Anything but what passed through your body
and the special biodigestable TP stocked in this pottie will clog hoses and
be refused at the waste plant. Gray water, tampons and other stuff thrown
in these potties THREATEN THE BURNING MAN EVENT. If you see anyone trying
to sneak trash or graywater into the potties, ASK THEM NOT TO!
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Re: Grey water disposal

Postby Captain Goddammit » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:27 pm

playa hugger wrote: Gray water, tampons and other stuff thrown
in these potties THREATEN THE BURNING MAN EVENT. If you see anyone trying
to sneak trash or graywater into the potties, ASK THEM NOT TO!
[/quote]

TELL them not to. In a very convincing way. Whatever that needs to be.
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Re: Grey water disposal

Postby robbidobbs » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:31 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:TELL them not to. In a very convincing way. Whatever that needs to be.


Feel free to get your megaphone out Goddamnit!

No really. Next time you're less than delighted about the potties, TELL US ALL ABOUT IT REALLY LOUD!

I love megaphones, maybe too much. Which is probably why nobody's given me one yet. Hehe.
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Postby unjonharley » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:48 am

I have a brand new megaphone and one of those extra huge search lights. Just want until I spot some one leaking on the playa :lol:
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