Sneaking into Burning Man

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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby unjonharley » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:49 pm

\

Sneaking in amount to taking without paying, stealing or theft..

That could open a person to some jail time..

Is a 12 mile trek over very hot desert worth that.. People have lost there lives walking across deserts.

How many people have lost there life hiding/riding in a cargo area??

Oh well go for it .. You stupid ass
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby BBadger » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:01 pm

I've always felt that the cost of the ticket + cost of attending does keep out a lot of the riff-raff, which is a good thing. It's not a function of being "poor" though. I find that douchebaggery and assholery tends to surface from those who feel entitled, and that transcends both rich and poor. Rather, the bar that is set in attending BM is a function of personal and financial investment: whether it is worth the money and time and effort to travel to the middle of a desert to attend an event that tests the reaches of what humans can create and do.

I appreciate that the ticket costs enough that it isn't really worth the effort for a truck load of assholes to drive in for a night, do-what-assholes-do, and then drive off. Minus the asshole part, that's what I did at a local burn. The ticket was cheap enough that I could attend for a night, and take off. Not a huge investment, but fun and a good experience. If the ticket were $210, I'd probably stay a few nights to make it a longer trip; I may even reconsider going. I could see BM attracting a greater portion of assholes if the ticket price were lower, because the money "saved" could be spent for the one-day drive. The investment we make in going to BM creates more value in it, and for some, the first hurdle in investing in something is the monetary investment.

Consequently, those who decide to sneak in are those with the least investment in attending. They are the most apt to ruin the event because there is value in it for them. They may vandalize what is created, intrude on peoples' burn, feel entitled to take what is not theirs. Such people are a disease and we should do everything within our powers to prevent such parasites from "attending."
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby mode-of-operation » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:02 pm

While I wont be sneaking in nor would I want to, I'm too old and to fat to be hiding underneath or on top of an RV. Nor would I be hiking in the desert in the middle of the night trying to get past the premiter fence. I bought my $280.00 ticket and after spending a small fortune to get there, the ticket price is my last worry. But I would have to say this, 2010 brought in 17.5 million dollars, 7.2 million went to just payroll. There better be a huge amount of employees or somebody is making mega bucks. There is a lot of free labor through the volunteer system and everyone provides for themselves. What exactly is my $280.00 paying for? Yeah I see some things that is provided at our expense and a lot of things that is provided that I don't see. I don't see 17.5 million of work/infrastructure. I look at it as the people on top of the food chain is making a killing off us and while it may be warranted to them, I do feel bitter about it. So if someone can get in for free through his or her clever thought or outright fortitude, more power too them. I don't see a few more people straining the infrastructure when they are on pace to make more money this year. They only strain the resources of the people they came with.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Sham » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:22 pm

This is an old story, but there is a huge cost to the infrastructure of that city. A big chunk is paid to BLM and for law enforcement. The port-a-potties cost a shitload. The electrical grid and generators, mobile buildings, trucking, fork lifts, cranes, scaffolding and on and on.
This event takes a huge amount of money to produce. When all is said and done, I hope that there is a worthwhile amount of money left for the organizers, or they just won't do it again.
This is what capitalism is all about. If you think the price is too high, then don't buy the ticket.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Lassen Forge » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:20 pm

Jeezusgodalmytee, yeah... the infrastructure costs ARE tremendous.

They DO have a LOT of people on the payroll, including the senior staff and skilled professionals in their field, not to mention the year round operations... I also suspect the whole DPW set up and tear down costs for the people who are there for 3-4 months are payroll, as well as those who "volunteer" by working 4-7 days of the event (and yes, I can honestly sat BTDT)... and get things like a discount or gift ticket, or an honorarium for specialized skills they don't have to go out and hire...

And yes, there is also the thing this IS a business, not a rainbow gathering, and this IS how some folk earn their living... so if you don't like the business, the answer then would to be NOT to be a customer, don't buy the ticket and be a participant. Simple as that.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Dr. Pyro » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:41 pm

Both Howard and Sue are long-time friends of mine and they are of course correct, and might I just add that something none of you ever bring up is the cost of the FIREWORKS that they set off during the burning of The Man. I mean my G-d, that right there (as expensive as it must be) is worth every penny I spent to not sneak in. One of our newbies two years ago said it was the most magnificent pyrotechnic desplay (I think her actual words were "...the most motherfucking bitchenist fireworks I've even seen and who the fuck took the mushrooms...?") and they don't give that away. Enough said.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby mode-of-operation » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:58 pm

[quote="Bay Bridge Sue"]And yes, there is also the thing this IS a business, not a rainbow gathering, and this IS how some folk earn their living... so if you don't like the business, the answer then would to be NOT to be a customer, don't buy the ticket and be a participant. Simple as that.[/quote]


Wow! Apparently, according to you, Buringman is a business! So all that crap they spoke of in the early years was basically bullshit. It wasn't about self reliance and helping your fellow man or whatever jibberish they spewed out. This is a shock to me. Really it's not. I know this is about money, just suprised someone on hear admitted to it.

For the last 4 years payroll was around $2,800,000. Then all of a sudden in 2010 it surges in to $7,200.000. A 63% increase, during a recession too! Hey if you can get it, make all you can but don't hide behind some banner of righteousness when it's all about money. So now I definately don't care if some people sneek in for free. More power to them. Somebody is making an ass load of money and if somebody who's trying to save money or can't afford to pay 300.00 for a ticket, I hope they get in for free. The organization is greedy and I expect the people who attend the event to be of the same mindset.

Take a little time to study the end of year reports and you'll see it too. If you can't see it, just keep your head burried in the sand.

Oh and since it's about Larry or whoever making a bundle of cash, don't give me shit about a the RV company name advertised on the side it. If I decide to wear a shirt with a company logo, just shut the hell up because I contributed to the Larry fund just like you. Oh and if you do care about the RV rental company name, tell Larry to start renting RV's. I'm sure he'd rape me on those prices as well. I bet he has real nice RV or probably a giant motor coach.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby jkisha » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:37 pm

Don't like it? Don't go. Problem solved. It's none of your business how much Larry makes from the event. He's entitled to whatever salary he decides to pay himself. He's also entitled to make the rules. It's his event, his company. He can run it as he pleases. You can always come up with your own concept for an event and start selling tickets...see how easy that is. :roll:
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Trishntek » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:50 am

jkisha wrote:Don't like it? Don't go. Problem solved. It's none of your business how much Larry makes from the event. He's entitled to whatever salary he decides to pay himself. He's also entitled to make the rules. It's his event, his company. He can run it as he pleases. You can always come up with your own concept for an event and start selling tickets...see how easy that is. :roll:


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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Sham » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:12 am

The key here is the word, "capitalism". The ticket price has to remain in line with what people will pay, and the event must offer enough appeal to bring the crowds. Aside from that, there is nothing more that BMorg has to answer to anyone. In a very crude explanation, they are selling a product that not everyone wants to buy, but it's just a business. They don't EVER have to open the books to show anyone how much they are making. They don't EVER have to justify a profit to anyone.

As far as people sneaking in, it does happen, but it's well within their right to have that person arrested. I'm not that idealistic to cast judgement on right or wrong of that, but I will say that it's more than $260 worth of effort to try to buck the system.

At the end of the event, I really hope that the org has a big pot of money left over after paying everything. That way they'll want to do it again next year.
Get it? :roll:
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Trishntek » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:34 am

Shambala wrote:The key here is the word, "capitalism". The ticket price has to remain in line with what people will pay, and the event must offer enough appeal to bring the crowds. Aside from that, there is nothing more that BMorg has to answer to anyone. In a very crude explanation, they are selling a product that not everyone wants to buy, but it's just a business. They don't EVER have to open the books to show anyone how much they are making. They don't EVER have to justify a profit to anyone.

As far as people sneaking in, it does happen, but it's well within their right to have that person arrested. I'm not that idealistic to cast judgement on right or wrong of that, but I will say that it's more than $260 worth of effort to try to buck the system.

At the end of the event, I really hope that the org has a big pot of money left over after paying everything. That way they'll want to do it again next year.
Get it? :roll:


YEAH! What he said too!
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby DustHand » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:16 am

Take a look at this link. It describes the financial structure of the LLC
http://afterburn.burningman.com/10/org/financial_structure.html

And this is the financial chart for 2010. Should answer some of the questions about where the money goes.
http://afterburn.burningman.com/10/financial_chart.html

Keep in mind, they do NOT have to provide any of this info. They are a private company. Not a non-profit, not publicly traded.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby AntiM » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:21 am

This year's prank which I won't get around to doing, but I'm thinking about:

Big ass tip jar in front of First Camp.
These are not my fuckos.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby DustHand » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:24 am

AntiM wrote:This year's prank which I won't get around to doing, but I'm thinking about:

Big ass tip jar in front of First Camp.


Hilarious!
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby jkisha » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:17 am

It will be interesting to see what changes are brought about when they become a not for profit organization.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby capjbadger » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:49 am

It's free market. They can charge whatever they want. If they try to charge too much, the business would fail. It's the same as any other business.

I will admit being rather curious as to the $4.4 million jump in payroll between 2009 and 2010. :?

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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Dr. Pyro » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:51 am

In my opinion, Burning Man LLC doesn't earn enough money. But then again I am a proud capitalist.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby capjbadger » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:52 am

AntiM wrote:This year's prank which I won't get around to doing, but I'm thinking about:

Big ass tip jar in front of First Camp.

Very funny, though I suspect it wouldn't take more than a couple nights before someone pissed in it. ;)

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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Lassen Forge » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:26 am

Fill it full of Monopoly Money. Or better, I'll print some Black Rock Cash (BRC) for the event.

mode-of-operation wrote:
Bay Bridge Sue wrote:And yes, there is also the thing this IS a business, not a rainbow gathering, and this IS how some folk earn their living... so if you don't like the business, the answer then would to be NOT to be a customer, don't buy the ticket and be a participant. Simple as that.



Wow! Apparently, according to you, Buringman is a business! So all that crap they spoke of in the early years was basically bullshit. It wasn't about self reliance and helping your fellow man or whatever jibberish they spewed out. This is a shock to me. Really it's not. I know this is about money, just suprised someone on hear admitted to it.

For the last 4 years payroll was around $2,800,000. Then all of a sudden in 2010 it surges in to $7,200.000. A 63% increase, during a recession too! Hey if you can get it, make all you can but don't hide behind some banner of righteousness when it's all about money. So now I definately don't care if some people sneek in for free. More power to them. Somebody is making an ass load of money and if somebody who's trying to save money or can't afford to pay 300.00 for a ticket, I hope they get in for free. The organization is greedy and I expect the people who attend the event to be of the same mindset.

Take a little time to study the end of year reports and you'll see it too. If you can't see it, just keep your head burried in the sand.

Oh and since it's about Larry or whoever making a bundle of cash, don't give me shit about a the RV company name advertised on the side it. If I decide to wear a shirt with a company logo, just shut the hell up because I contributed to the Larry fund just like you. Oh and if you do care about the RV rental company name, tell Larry to start renting RV's. I'm sure he'd rape me on those prices as well. I bet he has real nice RV or probably a giant motor coach.


Where's that popcorn smilie when you need it... damn!

(winding up for the pitch...)

Don't go. If you don't like the way the gig is run, f'n DON'T GO. Dig? Don't sit here and produce this huge sanctimonious song and dance about how evil the BMORG is because they charge ticket prices, and (as required by law) post their annual statement, and YOU tear it apart because YOU have this EXPECTATION that THEY should do the event the way YOU want THEM to do it... YOU may not like it, but it's NOT YOUR GIG, it's theirs, and they're nice enough to invite 50K of their friends to help chip in and pay for the thing and go hang out in the desert with them.

And BTW, you're damn right, if I put on this show every year, to 50K people, did all the PR and arranging and paid the taxes and insurance and had to hire all the infra that goes out there and the staff and shit, kust like a wedding or something, you're damn skippy I'd want to get paid. Sire, I have a set of pretty cool core values, but I also have a fucking life, and if I spend 20 hours a day 360 days of the year pulling this thing off, I'd damn WELL expect not to do so and starve or not be able to live under a freeway to pull it off.

What are you, some kind of nut? Live under a freeway and make BRC happen?

(Talk about an event someone provides for a bunch of strangers and then snivel how they provide it... Yeesh! Where's that U-Tube of Nicholson in A Few Good Men when you need it??!!)

Botton line - get a fucking GRIP on reality... or don't go. Better, Get a grip on reality AND don't go. I bet you're a lot of fun at pot lucks - do you analyze everyone's dish to make sure they spent what YOU thought they should??? Gak.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby jkisha » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:29 am

That's the same attitude that attracts all the entitled ticket beggars too. I don't have a bit of sympathy for any of them.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Bob » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:42 am

mode-of-operation wrote:Wow! Apparently, according to you, Buringman is a business! So all that crap they spoke of in the early years was basically bullshit. It wasn't about self reliance and helping your fellow man or whatever jibberish they spewed out. This is a shock to me. Really it's not. I know this is about money, just suprised someone on hear admitted to it....


In the *real* early years, they didn't use buzzwords. Well, a few. And any money collected, they funneled to their friends... er, Artistes... for liquor and whores. Has anything really changed?

Hope this helps.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby mode-of-operation » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:22 pm

That's what I think Bob. You got it right.



Not for Profit = The compaany didn't make any money, but I made a shit load for my "salary"


Radical self reliance, artistic expression, helping your fellow man, are all for sale at the B'man.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby jkisha » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:30 pm

No problem with that either, for all the aforementioned reasons.
mode-of-operation wrote:That's what I think Bob. You got it right.



Not for Profit = The compaany didn't make any money, but I made a shit load for my "salary"


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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Eric » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:31 pm

mode-of-operation wrote:That's what I think Bob. You got it right.

Not for Profit = The compaany didn't make any money, but I made a shit load for my "salary"

Radical self reliance, artistic expression, helping your fellow man, are all for sale at the B'man.


Maybe you've mistaken Burning Man for a Rainbow Gathering. Yes, they spout all sorts of New Age blah-blah-blah, but face it, it's a huge fucking camping trip in the desert. Anything beyond that is what you make of it.

I'm with BBS- if it really bugs you that much don't give them your money and don't go. It's honestly just that simple.

Personally I could care less if all the members of the board were taking home a million a year (which I doubt). All I care about is that they're giving me the perfect playground for a week, for minimum cost out of my pocket. I would spend as much (probably more, I'm not a cheap date) for a week in Vegas or NYC, and you can bet I wouldn't question how much the mayor & city council was making.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby unjonharley » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:38 pm

Eric wrote:

Personally I could care less if all the members of the board were taking home a million a year (which I doubt). All I care about is that they're giving me the perfect playground for a week, for minimum cost out of my pocket. I would spend as much (probably more, I'm not a cheap date) for a week in Vegas or NYC, and you can bet I wouldn't question how much the mayor & city council was making.


SO! Eric,

Seeing how your band from buying a ticket.. Just how do you plan on sneaking in this year?????? :) :)
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Eric » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:52 pm

unjonharley wrote:
Eric wrote:

Personally I could care less if all the members of the board were taking home a million a year (which I doubt). All I care about is that they're giving me the perfect playground for a week, for minimum cost out of my pocket. I would spend as much (probably more, I'm not a cheap date) for a week in Vegas or NYC, and you can bet I wouldn't question how much the mayor & city council was making.


SO! Eric,

Seeing how your band from buying a ticket.. Just how do you plan on sneaking in this year?????? :) :)


My ticket is on my fridge. No "ban" at all (no buying either this year, but that's a different story. Lets just say my life is filled with amazing people, and I hope I return as well as I'm given.)
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:59 pm

Eric wrote:
unjonharley wrote:
Eric wrote:

Personally I could care less if all the members of the board were taking home a million a year (which I doubt). All I care about is that they're giving me the perfect playground for a week, for minimum cost out of my pocket. I would spend as much (probably more, I'm not a cheap date) for a week in Vegas or NYC, and you can bet I wouldn't question how much the mayor & city council was making.


SO! Eric,

Seeing how your band from buying a ticket.. Just how do you plan on sneaking in this year?????? :) :)


My ticket is on my fridge. No "ban" at all (no buying either this year, but that's a different story. Lets just say my life is filled with amazing people, and I hope I return as well as I'm given.)

After my birthday dinner and candy, I gotta wonder why that is in doubt.
(or am I being crass again?)
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Eric » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:11 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:(or am I being crass again?)


We ate leftovers & canned food for a week after that. Whatever. You're worth it. That's also why The Boyfriend won't let me spend rent money on a ticket...
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:16 pm

Eric wrote:
theCryptofishist wrote:(or am I being crass again?)


We ate leftovers & canned food for a week after that. Whatever. You're worth it. That's also why The Boyfriend won't let me spend rent money on a ticket...

Holy fucking shit. Well, thank you, and thank him, too, he didn't get the pleasure, just the repentance.
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Re: Sneaking into Burning Man

Postby Sham » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:08 am

I have read most of this thread (at least the type large enough for me to see :roll: ) and I want to offer this analogy if I could:

I think Costco charges too much money for their 42" Visio LCD televisions. I've seen the financials and the executives make too much money as far as I'm concerned. Instead of me not buying one and paying their price, I decided that I want to steal one of those $350 television sets. They have plenty money, and I feel I am justified to take one if I want. I know it costs them a lots of money to run those warehouses and they have to pay for the inventory, but I REALLY want one.
I could have bought it on sale a few months back for $250, but I wasn't sure I wanted one and I didn't have the money at the time, and besides, I'm poor, so why should just the people with money have one of those?
I'm gonna steal one now and act surprised and entitled if I get caught. I just love when I can act righteously indignant, even when I'm in the wrong!
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