question Re: Kerosene

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question Re: Kerosene

Postby Ducky » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:36 pm

is their any danger in compressing 32 oz. of Kerosene to 175psi? using an air compressor....or do I need to compress it with some other gas?
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Postby Dustdevil » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:29 pm

My fire art project that I created this year required that I flow 50 gal/min of fuel to the main burner. My fuel was 50% kerosene/ 50% gasoline. I used nitrogen to pressurize my holding tank for two reasons. First, when the tank runs low, it does not mix with the fuel and create and explosive mixture. Second, nitrogen is stored in high pressure bottles and one bottle will run my fuel system for a long time. A compressor would be very awkward on the Playa. Safety was my main concern. I know that "The Hand of Gawd" also used nitrogen to pressurize the fuel source. You may with to contact DaveX at BMORG for more safety info if you are wishing to take your project to BM 2004. What are you building? Good luck!
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Thanx

Postby Ducky » Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:35 pm

I'm actually trying to enhance, the propane burner I used this year on my chopper bicycle...with a nice mist of kerosene blown from beneath the flame. My main concern, IS the kerosene/air mixture left, once the tank is nearly discharged. The tank itself would be pressurized at camp. How hard is it to get Nitrogen canisters? ive never shopped for them before. Anyhow, thanx again
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Postby Dustdevil » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:21 pm

Nitrogen is not very costly and is readily available at most welding supply shops. You may have to buy a regulator. Also if you do not wish to purchase a tank, most supply shops will let you keep a tank for a refundable deposit. I have bought several regulators on Ebay. The most I have paid for a top of the line unit is $45.
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Postby Dustdevil » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:27 pm

By the way, if you are in Crockett, CA, Atlas welding supply in Berkeley is BM friendly. They have worked with many fire artists, including myself.
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Postby Ducky » Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:31 pm

Thanx, Ill check them out.
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Postby IMOK » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:11 pm

isn't kerosene like deisel in regards to self combustion or "unstableness" under pressure?? I don't know, that's why I'm asking??
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Postby Dustdevil » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:05 am

Most flammable liquids become explosive under pressure. Besides needing containment (pressure) you also need oxygen and a source of ignition. That is why I use nitrogen to pressurize my fuel system. There is no source of ignition in the fuel storage tank and no oxygen. Some jet aircraft fuel bladders are pressurized from the outside of the bladder and the fuel is then forced to the engines' fuel pump.
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Postby Dustdevil » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:51 pm

PS:

I make the comparison to jet fuel because jet fuel is 95% kerosene and 5% gasoline for civilian use and a much higher content of gasoline for military use. JP4 JP5 etc.
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Postby IMOK » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:08 am

That makes a lot of sense. It also opens up a whole new realm of experimentation for me. I have fabb'd a nice little fireball device and had so much fun with it, (on halloween, as part of a dynamic "scaring" display), that I want to go further. :twisted:
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Postby Skyhawk » Thu Dec 04, 2003 11:31 am

a little fireball device? do tell, do tell..
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Postby IMOK » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:41 pm

Nothing fancy really - Take one discarded CO2 bottle, the one I have is about 18" long, 4" in diameter. It's an old sample bottle I think, pretty heavy duty, prolly good for 2000 PSI. I don't think it needs to be that tough but I used what I had access to. Remove the Valve exposing 3/4" NPT threads. Install a 3/4" T fitting. At this point I aquired a 120 Volt solenoid with the same size inlet and outlet that was rated for the pressure etc. and mounted into one outlet of the T fitting. Make a nice exhaust nossle, and mount it into the outlet of the solenoid, making sure it its far enough away from causing any damage. Mine is about a foot out, and a foot up. I tried to frabricate some sort of device to introduce a little O2 into the exhausting stream for a better effect, but it didn't seem to make much difference, so either skip it, or try experimenting yourself. Anyway, make a nice support so the tank/nozzle assembly will sit pretty on the ground, and mount some sort of clamp to hold a propane torch to the exhaust outlet so it won't fall or blow out the flame when in use. I welded a piece of metal with a hole in it that the torch nozzle fits in nicely.Reduce out of the remaining T outlet and run propane rated hose to the desired distance away, and install into a regulator, which will bolt right to the propane tank. I used an adjustable regulator to play with pressures.
To operate the solenoid, run a cord to a switch, and from the switch to the solenoid, keeping in mind how far you want to be away from device. Incidently - you could use a 12v solenoid and battery for the solenoid, which for me will be the next step.
When completed and leak checked, light the propane torch at the nozzle,open the tank which will fill the accumulator with desired pressure. Now stand back and hit the switch. This will dump the contents of the accumulator, ignite it on the way out and POOF nice little fireball. A momentary contact switch is most desireable, so that after the dump, the accumulator will start to fill again for multiple BLOW-OUTS.
I managed to hide in the bushes in the front yard and hid the device behind a large ephegy of Death with red glowing eyes. When people would stop to check out the eyes..... BOOM . The worst part was cleaning up the shit on the driveway. hope this helps IMOK
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obviously im not a chemical engineer...

Postby Ducky » Tue Dec 09, 2003 7:10 pm

I know im probably mad to even consider playing with th shit..but..know any realatively safe tricks with ether? Got tons of th stuff at my work
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Postby Raheer » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:04 am

No, trust me. I'm the mad one. I want to get my hands on a nice supply of, say, five hundred gallons of liquid oxygen, and an equal supply of liquid nitrogen, for an art desplay called Fire and Ice.

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