Hexacopters with video?

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby FlyingMonkey » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:11 am

........This just in.

Sexacopters with Dildos

[media]
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:01 pm

Don't EVER confuse legitimate use drones with LEO drones, and military reconissance or armed drones.

I had to change my viewpoint nearly entirely to advocate for legitimate use drones a few years back, when I realized the benefits certain types could be. Here's a great example of a legitimate use drone footage from just this last month, with footage that will end up saving lives; perhaps LOTS of them.

[media]


Think about it for a minute, if you would, and don't deny legitimate use drones their opportunity to benefit society.

Now in the case of Burningman - there are no controls in place, despite what the org may mandate. There are no guarantees. Anybody wants to pilot a drone within slingshot range of me and mine? I need the target practice.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby some seeing eye » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:43 pm

Thanks Mr Rhino that's cool.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:17 am

some seeing eye wrote:Thanks Mr Rhino that's cool.


The video of the aftermath is absolutely amazing, isn't it?

Closer to home for a lot of you.....there's a well-respected geologist who works for the National Park Service in Yosemite, in fact that park's first-ever park geologist, Greg Stock, who's been doing a lot of GREAT work in the park, examining the locations of rockfalls in the park, what triggers them, and how the park can avoid losing buildings and infrastructure by locating the lodgings in lower risk areas. This gentleman has gotten USGS support to overfly the park with 1-m resolution LIDAR (Laser Inferometry Detection and Ranging), and the park is now able to identify the rockfall high-risk areas, and map the 'chutes' that form on mountain slopes as a result. The park has even done cosmogenic beryllium dating to determine the exact age of the rockfalls that have occurred over the last two millennia.

In my opinion, the man is setting the stage for a revolution in park geologic studies, and having a national effect as interest in the methods used takes hold.

The big rule in rockfall is that you don't want to end up in the path of it. Otherwise, you go splat. If drones can help prevent splat, I'm all for it.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby FlyingMonkey » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:10 pm

The problem is that everyone has a different interpretation of "legitimate use". I have no problem with a predator flying over my house using FLIR to find a missing child. But as we all know government agencies tend to stretch the letter of the law and in some cases completely disregard it. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone gets busted using their quadcopter to peek in to hotel room windows (assuming that hasn't already happened).

I am not in favor of restraining technology & think the only way to reduce abuse is to actually hold people accountable when they do cross the line.

The organizers have set the rules of use, http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... vFMSr1MFE8 ,and need to enforce them when violated. Unfortunately I don't think they will have the recourses to do this.

The guidelines for filming kind of break down because UAVs can't ask permission to video or take pics of someone. I think common sense should lead pilots to fly high enough so that individuals cannot be easily identified. But the fact is that people that otherwise don't want to end up on youtube probably will.

1.Be safe! Avoid flying over large crowds or densely populated areas. If you crash into a crowd you can seriously injure people. Follow the AMA safety code when flying any RC device. If you injure someone, you are responsible.

I think AVOID should be DO NOT. Either way this should preclude anyone from flying over camps & what many consider private areas. I said "should". I can understand people wanting to enforce vigilantly justice when this happens. As appealing as this sounds to me I think safely taking out a drone is easier said than done & you are still damaging someone else's property.

To me this is no different than feather boas. If you see someone "breaking the rules" start by engaging them in a conversation about what they are doing & why it's wrong. Then, if they are not receptive, get a ranger involved. There is no point in doing something that may ruin your burn.

If that doesn't work...... Form a mob, take their controller, & on the last day tell them which porto they can find it in. (but of course I kidd.....or do I? )
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Mojojita » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:22 pm

At the risk of being an extreme fraidy-cat: You can't see or hear them coming, they can carry a small payload, and they are remotely operated. Doesn't anybody else see the use of these as weapons for domestic terror?
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:26 pm

FlyingMonkey wrote:The problem is that everyone has a different interpretation of "legitimate use". I have no problem with a predator flying over my house using FLIR to find a missing child. )


I have no problem with that either. Good idea.

FlyingMonkey wrote:But as we all know government agencies tend to stretch the letter of the law and in some cases completely disregard it. )


Which means those individuals which do it need to be held accountable for their actions and the whoe she-bang must be in a transparent operation.

FlyingMonkey wrote:I am not in favor of restraining technology & think the only way to reduce abuse is to actually hold people accountable when they do cross the line.")


Restraining technology won't happen, but the application of common sense when the technology comes out goes a long way....until some dip goes around the controls in place to do what they want with no disregard for others. Then, I get pissed very quickly.

FlyingMonkey wrote:The organizers have set the rules of use, http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... vFMSr1MFE8 ,and need to enforce them when violated. Unfortunately I don't think they will have the recourses to do this.)


I don't think the org has any way to enforce those rules.

FlyingMonkey wrote:The guidelines for filming kind of break down because UAVs can't ask permission to video or take pics of someone. I think common sense should lead pilots to fly high enough so that individuals cannot be easily identified. But the fact is that people that otherwise don't want to end up on youtube probably will.)


And some of the pilots HAVE NO common sense or respect for privacy.

FlyingMonkey wrote:[size=150]1.Be safe! Avoid flying over large crowds or densely populated areas. If you crash into a crowd you can seriously injure people. Follow the AMA safety code when flying any RC device. If you injure someone, you are responsible.

I think AVOID should be DO NOT. Either way this should preclude anyone from flying over camps & what many consider private areas. I said "should". I can understand people wanting to enforce vigilantly justice when this happens. As appealing as this sounds to me I think safely taking out a drone is easier said than done & you are still damaging someone else's property. )


"DO NOT" is STILL an open invite to those people who have no responsibility for their own actions and no common sense.


FlyingMonkey wrote:To me this is no different than feather boas. If you see someone "breaking the rules" start by engaging them in a conversation about what they are doing & why it's wrong. Then, if they are not receptive, get a ranger involved. There is no point in doing something that may ruin your burn.)


Big difference. The feather boa is infringing only upon the rules and the environmental ethos of the event, while drones have the potential for privacy violation. I value my privacy quite a bit.

Yeah, drones may be hard to take down, but with binoculars they can be followed back to their source. And THEN the discussion about privacy infringement can begin, with a ranger handy.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:18 am

Mojojita wrote:At the risk of being an extreme fraidy-cat: You can't see or hear them coming, they can carry a small payload, and they are remotely operated. Doesn't anybody else see the use of these as weapons for domestic terror?


Anything in the world can be used for "domestic terror."

Were the Boston Marathon bombers all that sophisticated? They stuck some black powder in a domestic pressure cooker and put some nuts and bolts inside. They were hidden in those containers-of-terror known as duffle bags. They were detonated with toy remote controls.

Or hell, do you want to start your own terror cell in the image of Al Qaeda? Don't fumble around like some jihad n00b, You can go read the translated Al Qaeda "Terrorist Handbook" hosted courtesy of the United States Department of Justice Website (1,2,3,4). Yeah, that's right, the whole thing that even the Smoking Gun partially took down.

But oh no, that hexacopter can make its getaway after it has performed its dastardly deed in a world where everyone has a camera on them. So why settle for a noisy hexacopter with low carry weight and high cost and the potential to get caught? If you wanted to terrorize the masses silently you could just buy surgical tubing and string it up as a giant slingshot and rubbing alcohol you bought from Walgreens or something else. Who can hear one of those things or triangulate their launch position?

Holy shit, what kind of society allows people access to all of the above and more? Think of all the terror that could be committed!

We even access to the most potent instruments of domestic terrorism: fear mongering and laws. That's right. We can scare ourselves into signing away our own freedoms out of fear of their potential misuse. Maybe even access to those will be restricted.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby GreyCoyote » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:53 am

No more caffeine for BBadger. :mrgreen:
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby FlyingMonkey » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:03 am

More caffeine, more caffeine :-)
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Dr. Pyro » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:07 am

BBadger wrote: If you wanted to terrorize the masses silently you could just buy surgical tubing and string it up as a giant slingshot and rubbing alcohol you bought from Walgreens or something else.


Anybody who buys their rubbing alcohol from Walgreens is a moron. Costco has much better prices.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby unjonharley » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:19 am

terrorism has our government so mind fucked the terrorist don't need to lift a finger..The terror is within.. TSA NSA CIA FBI and other alphabet soup
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby FlyingMonkey » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:46 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:
BBadger wrote: If you wanted to terrorize the masses silently you could just buy surgical tubing and string it up as a giant slingshot and rubbing alcohol you bought from Walgreens or something else.


Anybody who buys their rubbing alcohol from Walgreens is a moron. Costco has much better prices.


I think Dr. Pyro has just been added to another watch list.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Mojojita » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:53 am

Dunno.... I saw a film many minutes long captured by a quad copter that was filmed an event I attended. I never knew it was there - very creepy feeling seeing my camp, myself, and my kids.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby FlyingMonkey » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:20 pm

Rhino, I totally agree. My point about feather boas was that I would respond the same way to both situations (user education/public shaming) & I was not trying to imply that the two are equal offenses.

"Big difference. The feather boa is infringing only upon the rules and the environmental ethos of the event, while drones have the potential for privacy violation. I value my privacy quite a bit."

Safety is a concern as well. But yes, I'm with you there.

"Yeah, drones may be hard to take down, but with binoculars they can be followed back to their source. And THEN the discussion about privacy infringement can begin, with a ranger handy."

My point exactly. There's no reason to try to down the drone & possibly injure people on the ground. Why let someone else's actions (idiot with a drone hovering over your camp) cause you to react in a way that could hurt others or get you in trouble & ruin your burn.

As much as I would love to see the flaming wreckage of a wayward drone crash to the Playa, realistically I think that would be more of a problem than someone hovering over my camp. (LEOs with drones would be a different matter. Has it happened yet????)

But seriously, this is something that will need to be dealt with. If I had a $300+ drone & knew ahead of time that if I flew it anywhere but open Playa that it would be confiscated, I wouldn't fly it over 2:00 - 11:00.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby chuckularone » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:24 pm

BBadger wrote:We can scare ourselves into signing away our own freedoms out of fear of their potential misuse. Maybe even access to those will be restricted.


Amen brother!
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Sunbeam56 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:41 pm

The vide of the aftermath of the landslide was amazing. I guess the ICE legislators are going to outlaw mountains next. (tongue firmly in cheek).
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:04 pm

FlyingMonkey wrote:
Dr. Pyro wrote:
BBadger wrote: If you wanted to terrorize the masses silently you could just buy surgical tubing and string it up as a giant slingshot and rubbing alcohol you bought from Walgreens or something else.


Anybody who buys their rubbing alcohol from Walgreens is a moron. Costco has much better prices.


I think Dr. Pyro has just been added to another watch list.

Plus, you have to be a member to shop CostCo. What kind of terrorist wants to leave that trail?
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:46 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Plus, you have to be a member to shop CostCo. What kind of terrorist wants to leave that trail?


Yeah, but if you're an Executive Club member you can earn 2% cash back on each instrument of terror you purchase.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:45 am

"While there's a potential for things to be done badly, there's also a potential for things to be done wonderfully."

Exactly.

I got turned on to the power of Twitter when a few years ago there was an earthquake in Peru. I'm sure you remember it. There's a site/user on Twitter called "Earthquake Watch" that posts the magnitudes and locations of major earthquakes around the world, with links to USGS. They reported a 9.0 in Peru and linked it to USGS. The USGS said that the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center had been notified, and was forecasting wave arrival times along the entire west coast of the US. It forecast 11:00 a.m. in San Diego, where Ranger Sandblaster was living at the time. I called him on the phone and told him about it, since he was right on the beach front.

At the appointed time, sure enough, there was a 2' surge in sea level in San Diego. I told him a full 12 hours in advance of the event occurring. Just think....if you can do that with Twitter, there's a lot of good that can be done in communicating potential disaster to folks before it occurs, and saving a lot of lives.

I still subscribe to Earthquake Watch, and get the phone alerts when they happen. I just don't think Twitter has a lot fo forum for me to say what I'm thinking in 140 characters or less.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby VultureChow » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:57 pm

Drone spotted in the wild.
Image

It's the site of today's building explosion and collapse in Harlem.

I'm assuming it's an FDNY drone and a useful tool for survey areas that are a) unsafe for the firefighter or b) too unstable to survey without potentially hurting people trapped inside.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:18 pm

Bingo, Vulture Chow. You just hit the Rhino 'legitimate use' jackpot.

Military use of aircraft equipped with infrared sensors has been used for years. To use the same type of sensors on drones is probably being done already, but has a LOT of great uses. I'll just name two.

The use of an infrared drone would be great for firefighters to know where the hot spots are.

An infrared drone would be useful in agriculture to identify locations which are water-deficient in farmers' fields, and identify also those areas with too much water. Promotes water conservation through wise use of the water resource to target exactly what a particular crop needs to thrive. THAT's real targeting for you.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:26 am

This is puzzling. No drones at Burning Man?

The drone that showed the rockslide helped many by capturing an aerial perspective of the aftermath, and helped to dramatize what had happened.

Wouldn't a similar drone over Burning Man help to illustrate the Glory that is Black Rock City? Are you all the ones who are later looking for their camps on a satellite photo?
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:38 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:This is puzzling. No drones at Burning Man?

The drone that showed the rockslide helped many by capturing an aerial perspective of the aftermath, and helped to dramatize what had happened.

Wouldn't a similar drone over Burning Man help to illustrate the Glory that is Black Rock City? Are you all the ones who are later looking for their camps on a satellite photo?


You missed the point on the rockslide. It identified possible cause (weathered blocks finally giving way, but without time identification. That could have been done from the ground, but they didn't have to because of the drone. It might be dangerous to approach those cliffs. Consider that this is in Italy, with possible earthquake activity that could act as a trigger at any time. Thus, you don't have to put people in harms way. A second thing that could also be mentioned is the perspective gained by getting some idea of the slope so that future rockfalls can be diverted or controlled by creating chutes or building large terrrace dikes. This would be extremely diffficult due to the steepness of the slopes, but possible. Also, the aerial survey would be a good starting point for future rockfall prediction from the standpoint of validating any simulations run. It hasn't helped anyone yet, but it probably will soon.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby BBadger » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:50 pm

Image
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby unjonharley » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:27 am

A news copter went down this morning near the space needle..

That will hurt the flying news industry...

The FAA will be yelling: see see see see,we told you so..
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby FlyingMonkey » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:53 am

unjonharley wrote:A news copter went down this morning near the space needle..

That will hurt the flying news industry...

The FAA will be yelling: see see see see,we told you so..


I do think this is one area where "Drones" would be better than manned aircraft. If one goes down, the odds of people getting hurt or killed are much less.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Oldguy » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:14 pm

A skydivers terminal velocity is about 130 mph, isn't it? A 4 pound copter falling from 200 feet will be deadly, won't it? Batteries are heavy and prone to fail in whirling winds of " ancestors ".

I suspect that drones have been used for years on burn night. Who knows who the operators could be: videographers, LEOs, firemen, or maybe gov't spies.

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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby ^Rhino! » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:07 am

Oldguy wrote:A skydivers terminal velocity is about 130 mph, isn't it? A 4 pound copter falling from 200 feet will be deadly, won't it? Batteries are heavy and prone to fail in whirling winds of " ancestors ".

I suspect that drones have been used for years on burn night. Who knows who the operators could be: videographers, LEOs, firemen, or maybe gov't spies.

Everything is fun till someone's brain is put out. Feathers are out, Kevlar helmets are in.


A skydiver's terminal velocity is about 120mph, but it takes a few seconds to reach that. Batteries don't necessarily have to be heavy unless they're lead-acid. Polycarbonate batteries using nickel-metal hydride weigh a lot less. Abnd, since these things are 'copters, I wonder what the tendency to slow down when going down without power would be when autorotation of the props starts. It makes for confusing calculations, and I'd love to hear an expert on the details.
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Re: Hexacopters with video?

Postby Just_Joe » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:31 pm

^Rhino! wrote:
Oldguy wrote:A skydiver's terminal velocity is about 120mph, but it takes a few seconds to reach that. Batteries don't necessarily have to be heavy unless they're lead-acid. Polycarbonate batteries using nickel-metal hydride weigh a lot less. Abnd, since these things are 'copters, I wonder what the tendency to slow down when going down without power would be when autorotation of the props starts. It makes for confusing calculations, and I'd love to hear an expert on the details.

My 'coptor, a DJI phantom weighs a shade over 2 lbs with battery and gopro.
There is a routine in place that causes the rig to land itself (straight down) in a controlled manner when batteries fall past a certain voltage, regardless of who or what is underneath.
If it completely loses power, it's going to fall but the props won't be spinning much.
If the remote control dies, or the 'coptor flies out of range, it ascends or descends to 60 feet, returns from where it was launched and lands.
I flew on the playa in January under some pretty stiff winds (30+ MPH). The onboard GPS based stabilization (when enabled) kept the rig in the same spot + or - 10' if I asked it to.

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