If you buy a ticket from craigslist

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If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby CornMan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:52 am

I did buy one. I didn't have the time to do the BMORG computer search to make sure it is legit. The guy came to my house, had his daughter with him, and the postal packaging, receipt, book, and ticket looked good. One thing I did do is tell him on the phone before we met that I would need to take a photo of his driver's license. He readily agreed to this, so I do feel a little better about the legitimacy of the ticket. Any other ideas of checking for counterfeits without the long wait for the official BMORG ticket check, if the wait is long?
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:54 am

I'm pretty certain they are not doing the verifications this year. I think they don't have the time. I expect one of the mods will confirm this, but this is your early answer.

Sorry.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby CornMan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:25 pm

Thanks.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby Eric » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:46 pm

Confirmed - they are not doing verifications this year, other than the "known fraud" list in the Ticket FAQ.

Look the ticket over very carefully to make sure it looks & feels real. If you've been before you know what a ticket is supposed to be like; if you haven't look for these things: good quality paper, extremely high quality printing, printing on top of the hologram somewhere on the ticket (this year also has some very detailed holographic lines on it), embossing...
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby BBadger » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:07 pm

Visual identifiers:

embossing_effects_lo_res.jpg


back_lo_res.jpg


I have been asked to omit close-up photos of the staple holes, as these are a special security feature of the tickets.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:12 pm

Though it's less useful than it used to be, I'd get a phone number.
Driver's license and tags, good idea.

If you can photocopy it and compare it to a known real one photocopied, they should look almost identical.

Sounds like you did well though.

I always prefer to meet at someone's home, mine next.
Thieves and scammers always prefer a "public place".
Think about it.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby BBadger » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:43 pm

I'd prefer a public place mostly because of the large amount of cash money being transacted and the potential for people to scope out your home (if you're having it at your own home). Think about it.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:39 pm

The fallacy is that being in a public place will matter to robbers.
They know and love that most people believe that.

If your home is insecure, someone will rob it soon enough anyway.
And it isn't necessary to let someone see all of your home.
Most things you can test and examine outside, or in a front room.

If you don't have a portable remote to the panic circuit on your alarm, well, welcome to the nineties. Get one.

Thieves don't want you to know where they live.
They're more afraid of where you live, than a public place.
They know police stings rarely happen in public places, and think they can spot them.
And they usually can.

If something tells you the person might not be safe in your home, they damn well aren't safe enough in most public places.

As for cash, the final transaction can be done in a bank, common in actual large purchases.

The purpose isn't to catch or stop someone in the act of robbery, but deter them from trying.
Thieves are always in a hurry.
Cons, not always.

Talk to people.
What are they like?
If they don't know what they are selling or buying, why?
This is easy with a burning man ticket or high end audio or video gear.
Same with most cars.

Learn when to turn around and walk away.

Also, every person I have met in public locally, was also carrying a gun.
But trustworthy.

I had one guy that never showed up.
Too squirrely, or decided I wasn't an easy mark, or the location wasn't easy enough? Don't know.
He was shifty sounding.

I do think about these things.
That's really the important part about security.

Most people are nice, some too trusting, many so paranoid you can't do any business with them.
"Oh, I'm trustworthy, but I'm not going to trust you." sort of thing.
I've got friends I met many years ago through classifieds.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby BBadger » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:24 pm

gyre wrote:The fallacy is that being in a public place will matter to robbers.
They know and love that most people believe that.


I'm sure they also know and love that they can visit a private residence with even fewer eyes and/or witnesses. Hell, let the transaction go smoothly, let's see if this dude owns anything worth stealing, and whether it's easy to carry out.

If your home is insecure, someone will rob it soon enough anyway.


That's stupid reasoning. Most theft crimes are crimes of opportunity, brought on by the knowledge of accessible valuables, and/or conditions that make theft easy to carry out. It's not coincidence that most home burglary usually occurs involves an acquaintance or other person who has visited the home and knows what is inside.

And it isn't necessary to let someone see all of your home.
Most things you can test and examine outside, or in a front room.


What are we gaining again?

If you don't have a portable remote to the panic circuit on your alarm, well, welcome to the nineties. Get one.


Oh right, and then run to the NBC-proof panic room too as the adversary tries to escape through the electrified, barred, bullet-proofed windows. No, I don't fashion my home as a fortress. Perhaps I don't need to because I'm not inviting trouble by bringing unknown people into my house.

Thieves don't want you to know where they live.
They're more afraid of where you live, than a public place.
They know police stings rarely happen in public places, and think they can spot them.
And they usually can.


Wait a minute here, who is doing a "police sting"? Are we selling weapons to terrorists here or kilos of heroin to dealers? Man, you must live an exciting life Gyre... or a paranoid one.

We're talking about inspecting a ticket, and paying some cash for it. Better than the dude showing up at your door pulling a knife or gun, tying you up in your room (assuming you're unlucky enough to be even around), and going through your things--after casing the place.

If something tells you the person might not be safe in your home, they damn well aren't safe enough in most public places.


Unless of course they're able to case the place to come back later. What are they casing in your public place? The car you drove?

As for cash, the final transaction can be done in a bank, common in actual large purchases.


Wait a sec... that's a public place yo. So what is it now? Home, or a public place? Or are you just assuming the "public place" people refer to are places like casino floors or in front of 7-11s?

The purpose isn't to catch or stop someone in the act of robbery, but deter them from trying.


Exactly why you don't help them in a crime of opportunity--like not letting them case your place for future acts of robbery, or providing an environment where it is easy to commit crimes without observation.

Thieves are always in a hurry.
Cons, not always.

...

(more platitudes)

...

Most people are nice, some too trusting, many so paranoid you can't do any business with them.
"Oh, I'm trustworthy, but I'm not going to trust you." sort of thing.
I've got friends I met many years ago through classifieds.


Wow, what a mid-post thread drift...
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:15 pm

Little off track.

Thieves aren't afraid of the public.
They are only afraid of being stopped.
Police do run stings, too rarely, but they do.
For obvious reasons, it is easier to do that in a building.
They always want to know where thieves live, obviously.

Most craigslist robberies are planned ambushes, usually in parking lots and motels.
Personals involve the most violence.

The purpose of an alarm is to attract attention.
Even during an active robbery, this shortens the time a criminal will spend, hopefully to zero.
If you want to cage them, use caution and a gun.

Most petty theft is probably a crime of opportunity.

Beyond that, how would you test this?
I am unaware of statistics, but criminals think they are planning carefully.
The average person is not facing pros.
It is quite difficult to understand the "logic" of criminals.

I have seen burglars climb a three story house, risking death, to enter a house in a high risk area for a criminal, only to steal $80.
Plan for that!
Compared to when I used to design systems, the inability to predict criminal risk, has reached bizarre levels.
Thieves routinely break into homes in low income areas purely on spec.
There is no sense to it.

My opinion on a security system, is that when it reaches the point that people think you're nuts, it may be a deterrent.
Used to be that having one step better than your neighbor was enough.
Those days are gone.

I am the one that has mentioned that well meaning honest friends are most often the source of info, accurate or not, causing someone they don't realize is dishonest to hear about a "target".
More often than not, it is a stupid idea.

Platitudes, etc.
Well argued.

Go meet someone in a parking lot, which is most people's idea of a public place.
Robberies that aren't targeted to defeat an alarm system, are routinely held there.

A bank is a public place.
I would point out that robbery inside a bank draws federal attention, which may not be enough to deter the stupidest people, but what else have you got?
But you have missed the point.
If you don't have money on you, you can't have it stolen.
Once you hand it to someone else, you again don't have it.
Perhaps most important, time makes thieves nervous.

I was meeting someone in a very isolated urban neighborhood.
Hard to judge exactly how dangerous it was, but I was sure as hell a stranger there.
The person I was meeting was known to me.
Tough to deal with, but honest.
When we closed the deal on a storage trailer, I offered to go inside to pay him.
We were on a raised lot, visible for a block.
He insisted I pay him there.
I handed him the stack of cash.
He later said he couldn't believe I had the nerve to pull that out right there.
I reminded him that it was his idea.
And that I didn't have any money on me, after I pulled it out.
He did.
People are funny.

Since we're going into detail, if someone has paperwork and remote for a product, probably legit.
If they have a burning man ticket, do they have the letter?
Does their ID match?
Do they know what burning man is?
The most important security is the conversation.

No reason to mention it, but many people use a place of employment to meet people.
It isn't necessarily secure, but it meets the needs of both parties, and it's better than a neutral public place, which I maintain is a red flag.

Use your best judgment.

Sounds like Zeke did a good job here.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby gyre » Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:25 pm

I want to add that every situation is different.
Only the person there, can judge what is smart.
If it works, it was the right thing to do.
Statistics don't apply.

I have talked to more than one robbery victim, to assure them they did the right thing.
One was a woman that bit her carjacker.
Worked.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby CornMan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:16 pm

When people come up to my house, my dogs often scare them. Their barking is pretty scary sounding, and they really get into this protecting the house thing.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby pink » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:55 pm

That's why I always have to pick up packages at the post office, unless I manage to be outside when the mailman comes. Two fairly large barkers. One is almost always in the yard during the day, although she is more afraid of you than you are of her. But the other one used to be quite viscous and does have a neighborhood reputation.

And now someone is almost always here, since we are all un- or self-employed!
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby Isotopia » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:21 pm

I would have just demanded to hold the sellers child for collateral until after the event.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:31 pm

I dunno, Iso. The idea of your spending a month with someone's kid is ....


well, I simply don't have words.

I'll go get you a cocktail.
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Re: If you buy a ticket from craigslist

Postby spoonful2 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:46 am

Every fake ticket sold on craigslist was someone meeting in a "public spot". Have them come to your house or vice versa, meet in front of the house, deal done.
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