Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

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Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby Rice » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:21 pm

None of us have the right to attend Burning Man.

Happily, I have been able to get a ticket. Therefore I appreciate the privilege of attending.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:38 pm

So, if I'm the first in line at the ticket counter, I don't have a right to a ticket?
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby capjbadger » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:39 pm

Is this really news to anyone? :twisted:

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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby capjbadger » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:39 pm

TomServo wrote:So, if I'm the first in line at the ticket counter, I don't have a right to a ticket?

Correct.

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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:40 pm

capjbadger wrote:
TomServo wrote:So, if I'm the first in line at the ticket counter, I don't have a right to a ticket?

Correct.

-Badger


No offense, but bullshit
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:49 pm

capjbadger wrote:Is this really news to anyone? :twisted:

-Badger

Yes. As far as I can tell.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby Eric » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:43 pm

TomServo wrote:
capjbadger wrote:
TomServo wrote:So, if I'm the first in line at the ticket counter, I don't have a right to a ticket?

Correct.

-Badger


No offense, but bullshit


Actually, Capjbadger is correct- you do not have a right to a ticket no matter where you are in line. If someone had a right to one just because of where they were in line, you can bet the scalpers & scammers would be there long before you exercising that "right". The Org would probably allow you to buy a ticket if you were first in line at a hypothetical ticket counter, but it is not a right.

The BMorg, however, does have a right to decide who can & cannot have a ticket up until the point that physical tickets are in peoples hands (and they still retain that right for any at will-call) as part of the agreement they have with the State of Nevada & the BLM, and the agreement purchasers make with the Org as stated on the website & tickets themselves; just as they retain the right to have someone removed from the event if they're a danger to themselves or others.

Too many people confuse "rights" with "wants", "needs" or "desires"- a "right" is something granted by the State (like Due Process, a Speedy Trial, owning property {and even there you have limits}, etc...), it has nothing to do with a business transaction, which is what buying a ticket is.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby International Incident » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:46 pm

Eric wrote:Too many people confuse "rights" with "wants", "needs" or "desires"- a "right" is something granted by the State (like Due Process, a Speedy Trial, owning property {and even there you have limits}, etc...), it has nothing to do with a business transaction, which is what buying a ticket is.


*swoon* you are making my lawyerly self all hot and bothered with this talk. Stop it
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:56 pm

TomServo wrote:So, if I'm the first in line at the ticket counter, I don't have a right to a ticket?


Only if you're first in line for a first-come, first-served sale.

I'm nudging this on over to the Tickets Discussion board.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby Tanzremix » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:01 pm

Lol, such a troll thread. OP provided an answer to a bullshit question no one asked; this isn't even worth the mental masturbation it would take to consider, but he did get to wave his dick around a little bit. If anything this thread is worth a lock.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:04 pm

Eric wrote:Actually, Capjbadger is correct- you do not have a right to a ticket no matter where you are in line. If someone had a right to one just because of where they were in line, you can bet the scalpers & scammers would be there long before you exercising that "right". The Org would probably allow you to buy a ticket if you were first in line at a hypothetical ticket counter, but it is not a right.

The BMorg, however, does have a right to decide who can & cannot have a ticket up until the point that physical tickets are in peoples hands (and they still retain that right for any at will-call) as part of the agreement they have with the State of Nevada & the BLM, and the agreement purchasers make with the Org as stated on the website & tickets themselves; just as they retain the right to have someone removed from the event if they're a danger to themselves or others.

Too many people confuse "rights" with "wants", "needs" or "desires"- a "right" is something granted by the State (like Due Process, a Speedy Trial, owning property {and even there you have limits}, etc...), it has nothing to do with a business transaction, which is what buying a ticket is.


So, basically, we DO have a right to purchase certain goods and services...in this case..a "good", up to the limitations of the law and/or the bylaws of BMORG..duh! I'm assuming this discussion is a spin off of the recent ticket debacle, in which a very Unfair solution was applied to an equally Unfair problem. Even the scalper has a right to buy a ticket, what they Don't have, is the right to resell the ticket at two..three times the face value. These are the same arguments surrounding gun ownership...there are limitations, but it is a "Right" IMHO
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:17 pm

Eric wrote: a "right" is something granted by the State


actually, a "right" is not granted by the State. a "right" is something that the state doesn't have authority to prohibit.... because it's a "right"

fine line, i know.

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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby International Incident » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:21 pm

clocksnmirrors wrote:
Eric wrote: a "right" is something granted by the State


actually, a "right" is not granted by the State. a "right" is something that the state doesn't have authority to prohibit.... because it's a "right"

fine line, i know.

:D


Hmm, not really. We only have "rights" because the state (in the form of the laws of the land) grants certain people certain things they call "rights".

People in Mali, or Afghanistan don't have the same "rights" as Americans. It's not being a person that is what grants you a right - rather it is the rule of law that "gives" rights.

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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:25 pm

melaniejane wrote:People in Mali, or Afghanistan don't have the same "rights" as Americans. It's not being a person that is what grants you a right - rather it is the rule of law that "gives" rights.


one could just as easily argue that the governments of mali and afghanistan are abridging the rights of their citizens by enforcing laws that violate self evident truths....


your move.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:35 pm

In this country, we have the unalienable right of "pursuit of happiness", which includes the right to acquire and enjoy property..in this case..a ticket, beyond all the restrictions, behind that ticket.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:38 pm

TomServo wrote:In this country, we have the unalienable right of "pursuit of happiness", which includes the right to acquire and enjoy property..in this case..a ticket, beyond all the restrictions, behind that ticket.


note: "pursuit of happiness" means you can make an effort at being happy. there is no guarantee of results implied in "pursuit"
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby International Incident » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:41 pm

clocksnmirrors wrote:
melaniejane wrote:People in Mali, or Afghanistan don't have the same "rights" as Americans. It's not being a person that is what grants you a right - rather it is the rule of law that "gives" rights.


one could just as easily argue that the governments of mali and afghanistan are abridging the rights of their citizens by enforcing laws that violate self evident truths....


your move.


OK. Fine. I disagree but it doesn't really matter. The Rights of Man argument has been going on for ever. We are no going to solve it in a thread about ticketing for TTITD.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:41 pm

clocksnmirrors wrote:
TomServo wrote:In this country, we have the unalienable right of "pursuit of happiness", which includes the right to acquire and enjoy property..in this case..a ticket, beyond all the restrictions, behind that ticket.


note: "pursuit of happiness" means you can make an effort at being happy. there is no guarantee of results implied in "pursuit"


No, but we have a RIGHT to pursue that happiness. The whole first come first served debate, is over complication of a simple and fair system.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:42 pm

melaniejane wrote:OK. Fine. I disagree but it doesn't really matter. The Rights of Man argument has been going on for ever. We are no going to solve it in a thread about ticketing for TTITD.


well. that was fun :D
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:46 pm

TomServo wrote: No, but we have a RIGHT to pursue that happiness. The whole first come first served debate, is over complication of a simple and fair system.


we have a right to pursue. getting in the ticket line is the pursuit. we don't have a right to the result of the pursuit. the ticket is the result of the pursuit.

therefore you have the right to get in line but not the right to the ticket.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:47 pm

Well, it was fun while it lasted
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:49 pm

listen up people: sometimes in life, the answer is "NO"


you simply will not always get what you want. deal.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby clocksnmirrors » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:50 pm

TomServo wrote:Well, it was fun while it lasted


:D
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby trilobyte » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:51 pm

Scarcity sucks, Tom. Unless you're building us all a time machine or you have the magic power to uninvent the internet (or better still, can manifest us a couple more lanes on the highway from I-80 to gate road), first come first served stops being simple and fair once an event hits the milestone of selling out tickets. The pro scalpers wake up to the possibilities and use automated ticket buying software to gobble a quarter to half the total supply in minutes (or less). Even with the whole registration and list-scrubbing that went on this year, demand was high enough that the event would have sold out in minutes. After 6 months, it seems clear that tickets aren't all in the hands of hoarders and scalpers. Yeah, they got some, but it's a paltry single-digit chunk of the ticket supply, as opposed to half. Want it all you like, it's still not a right.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:51 pm

clocksnmirrors wrote:
TomServo wrote: No, but we have a RIGHT to pursue that happiness. The whole first come first served debate, is over complication of a simple and fair system.


we have a right to pursue. getting in the ticket line is the pursuit. we don't have a right to the result of the pursuit. the ticket is the result of the pursuit.

therefore you have the right to get in line but not the right to the ticket.


If you are first in line...you do..or at least should have that right. It's a gamble, every time you want to purchase a popular item..like BM tix or Cabbage Patch Kids....First come first serve is the best and only fair system..IMHO...The scalping problem can be resolved through less invasive methods
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby TomServo » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:53 pm

I got my ticket. Yes scarcity does suck! But not receiving a ticket, even though you were payment number 1, because of a "lottery system" is absurd.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby Rice » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:11 pm

Tanzremix wrote:Lol, such a troll thread. OP provided an answer to a bullshit question no one asked; this isn't even worth the mental masturbation it would take to consider, but he did get to wave his dick around a little bit. If anything this thread is worth a lock.

Geeze, I didn't mention sex once. Here you are talking about masturbating and speculating about what i do with my penis.

I intended to spark a discussion, to see a few different points of view. Which certainly occurred. Dozens of people have posted how they deserve to attend, or should attend. That they have burned since Larry Harvey was 6 years old, or some such ramble. That implies that certain people believe they have the right to attend. I simply state "no, that is not the case".

As with any post one sees here: you can disagree, agree, not care, intensely care, ignore or bitch about it. We all have the right to do that. Hell, call me a troll. As far as I know, it still is not against the law to do that either.

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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby BBadger » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:39 pm

clocksnmirrors wrote:one could just as easily argue that the governments of mali and afghanistan are abridging the rights of their citizens by enforcing laws that violate self evident truths....


Self-evident "truth." EL OH EL.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:46 pm

TomServo wrote:In this country, we have the unalienable right of "pursuit of happiness", which includes the right to acquire and enjoy property..in this case..a ticket, beyond all the restrictions, behind that ticket.

I'm not sure that we do. That's in the Declaration of Independence, which, while a founding document, is not the law of the land.
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Re: Attending Burning Man is NOT a right.

Postby Rice » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:47 pm

not too long ago, was it not "self evident" that one could have slaves as property?

Some people believe whatever the heck they want.
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