BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Lonesomebri » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:32 am

VultureChow wrote:
Eric wrote:You are obviously not a gay man.


I am not. Though I met a guy who upon hearing I was Jewish, remarked that I must be good at blowjobs. I'm not bad, but he didn't know that. He explained that Jewish girls won't put out on a date, but they will go down.

I wanted to be offended, but then I remembered my last 3 dates.


Yeah....if this STEP thing comes thru for me, what are you doing on the playa Monday night?
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:29 am

beer wrote:Its called a final EA because, well, its final.

*eyeroll*
I work with NEPA, and you'd be surprised at how many FEAs and FEISs don't really add much to the draft.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby VultureChow » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:47 am

theCryptofishist wrote:*eyeroll*
I work with NEPA, and you'd be surprised at how many FEAs and FEISs don't really add much to the draft.


I looked through the final and couldn't find any significant changes from the preliminary we were all parsing a few months ago.

The final decision was written somewhat inelegantly. It sets a cap of 60,800 participants based on the definition of "Participant" in the EA.

But the EA never defines Participant explicitly. The closest it comes is the part quoted above which would seem to include volunteers but exclude vendors, law enforcement and contracted emergency services. Which makes sense as BM cannot control numbers of LEOs and vendors need to have flexibility to increase and decrease staff based on need.

But the best part is the FONSI acronym which I just learned. "The EA and FONSI support this decision"
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby beer » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:01 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
beer wrote:Its called a final EA because, well, its final.

*eyeroll*
I work with NEPA, and you'd be surprised at how many FEAs and FEISs don't really add much to the draft.



Huh ?
If you work with NEPA I must have misunderstood your question. Or were you fishing ?
Where did I say that a final adds or doesnt add anything from its draft state ?
Ill stand behind my statement that a final is final. If you like a final, be happy it went your way. Dont like a final, sue the agency.

I am not done, and may not finish reading the EA for this year. Further, I will not be comparing it to the draft as I have better things to do with my life. :mrgreen:


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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:17 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
beer wrote:Its called a final EA because, well, its final.

*eyeroll*
I work with NEPA, and you'd be surprised at how many FEAs and FEISs don't really add much to the draft.


Wait, you mean you're not a CIA cryptographer?
So much for me being a psychic.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:28 pm

beer wrote:Further, I will not be comparing it to the draft as I have better things to do with my life.

Oddly enough, this is why I didn't want to read the final. If you'd only said that you hadn't read the draft at the outset we could have saved ourselves a certain amount of aggravation.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Colonel Monk » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:57 pm

A friend alerted me to the news from JRS from last week.....Good News in general, though announcing the availability of tickets without a plan is a bit cruel. I thought the permit was originally capped at 50,000? Where did this 58,000 number come from? Also, JRS says close to 58,000 tickets sold - so if they increased the permit to 60,900, that should mean there are at least 2,900 tickets, right?

As to the question of STEP, I can also confirm that the STEP registration went very quickly, and again, though I was there and trying as soon as it opened, no bueno. Busy, busy, busy, then no bueno, the queue was closed.

So why STEP? Well maybe because there are still some people in the second official "line" of 2000 that haven't gotten a ticket. The "first" line being the actual lottery registration... And, if the Borg doesn't follow thru with the STEP queue, they will look even more like idiots. (How many of the 2000 have gotten a ticket, anyway?)

So why NOT STEP? Because there are still many of us that were first in line for the lottery that didn't get a ticket. I was registered and had my Credit Card information submitted less than 5 minutes after the lottery registration opened. In any other year, that would have been as good as having a ticket in hand. Having your shit together and cash in hand ready to buy your tickets used to mean you'd be set, and if you snoozed you might lose. If being first in line to buy tickets doesn't show your commitment to getting a ticket then what does?

Remember before the internet, when you wanted a concert or event ticket? If you wanted front row seats for a really good show you had to camp out for the store to open - and when you got to the ticket window, you had your pick of the tickets - uhhhh, because you were at the head of the line!

I feel for the people that are in the STEP line, and at the same time there's been two really disappointing events regarding the ticketing for those of us who weren't awarded a ticket via the lottery and could not get in STEP. I really don't want to get my hopes dashed a third time waiting in another fucking line.

I'd prefer at this point that Borg Ticketing look at that original list, and count off the first 2900 people that enrolled in the lottery and weren't awarded a ticket, and offer them a ticket. If I'm not at the head of the line, that's fine, but I bet you that I'm pretty close to the head of the line.

And please, let us know in private. I'm not even sure why they bother publicly announcing the tickets other than to generate completely unneeded publicity.

If they must service the STEP line first to save face, fine - sell out the original line BUT DON'T REOPEN IT! There is already a line out there, they only need to look at the lottery sign up to find out who was most eager.

As far as offering an open sale? Please, NO. Anyone who wasn't in line back in January with everyone else doesn't deserve a chance at a ticket now.

Good luck to us all, I hope they can pull the trigger and let us know soon.

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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Rice » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:29 pm

no matter what, not everyone who wishes for tickets will get them. It seems obvious that there are more people than tickets.

No system will be fair to everyone.

* Feel free to respond with gnashing of teeth and conspiracy theories * - popcorn is cooking as I type
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby SnowBlind » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:57 am

Colonel Monk wrote: I thought the permit was originally capped at 50,000? Where did this 58,000 number come from? Also, JRS says close to 58,000 tickets sold - so if they increased the permit to 60,900, that should mean there are at least 2,900 tickets, right?


I think the 50k was last year and they had been talking about 58k for this year with the BLM.

As to your second point, it's not that easy. For one thing, they mentioned something about changing the definition of who gets counted somewhat, and it was in that context that the number was raised slightly. I don't know the details, but as others have mentioned, you could argue if staff, esd, vendors, etc get counted or not.

The other reason that the numbers are not as straightforward as they seem is that the BLM number refers to the maximum number of people on the playa at any one time. Since some people leave early, you can sell more tickets than the total number. If you don't, you are wasting capacity. But if you do, you have to make sure you don't overstretch the limit. Which is what happened last year. Seeing how we are on probation for last year, I would guess that they run a more careful course this year to make sure we stay under the cap.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:12 am

What snowblind said. The 2010 and 2011 permits had a population cap of 50K. The 5 year permit that Burning Man and the BLM had been working on for some time called for a cap of 58K in 2012, and that's what Burning Man has been planning for (57K of which were sold through pre-sale, main sale, directed ticket distribution, and low income programs). The increase to 60,900 in the final permit is slightly higher than what was originally being negotiated, but also reflects some changes in the way some of the support/staff personnel will be counted. If any additional tickets are sold, it would be as many as 2900, not at least 2900 tickets.

I don't know the details of what the changes to counting people are, but hopefully they also factor in some kind of headroom so that there is absolutely zero chance of bumping our heads on the 60,900 cap.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby wh..sh » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:22 pm

VultureChow wrote:
Eric wrote:You are obviously not a gay man.


I am not. Though I met a guy who upon hearing I was Jewish, remarked that I must be good at blowjobs. I'm not bad, but he didn't know that. He explained that Jewish girls won't put out on a date, but they will go down.

I wanted to be offended, but then I remembered my last 3 dates.

ROFL!!! this made my day!!! :lol: :lol:
That leads me to wonder what sort of seterotypes exists for Indian women.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:23 pm

Sadly, I'm not sure that there's more in the gross american consciousness than red dots...
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby wh..sh » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:29 pm

Disturbing, but as expected...
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:54 pm

Depends on where the red dot gets left.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Eric » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:14 pm

junglesmacks wrote:Depends on where the red dot gets left.


Is this where I make a joke about sticking to gingers so no-one will know?
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Rice » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:19 pm

Eric, it is difficult to get the coffee out of my keyboard.... Thanks for making a good evening - awesome!!
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby bluesbob » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:23 pm

It's probably been said already, but BM is on probation because it continually exceeds its population cap. Since the Borg has already sold 58,000 tickets, I would either sell only a limited amount of the extra 2,900, or I wouldn't sell any at all. But...it's the Borg. They never seem to think logically.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby waynerd » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:26 pm

trilobyte wrote:@vargaso - true, though the alkali dust isn't good for point and shoots either. Historically not much shooting on the playa happens during dust storms (if you look at just what's online, you'd think the weather was fantastic the majority of the time every year), we'll see if that changes this year.


I'm bringing at least one old/cheap SLR body specifically FOR the dust storms. My new D800 won't be used unless it's pristine out. - This newb says bring on the dust! :D
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby skyhawkecks » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:38 pm

bluesbob wrote:It's probably been said already, but BM is on probation because it continually exceeds its population cap. Since the Borg has already sold 58,000 tickets, I would either sell only a limited amount of the extra 2,900, or I wouldn't sell any at all. But...it's the Borg. They never seem to think logically.


What I want to know is how they can count how many people are there each day....
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:45 pm

They can count the numbers of vehicles and multiply that by a statistical average, and they can count tents and whatever else from satillite photos. Also, the llc is required to give them a number everyday, which can be based on the number of tickets turned in at the gate, minus however many people left that day. (If you leave while the event is underway, Gate will check in and ask if you need an in and out pass--that gives them the opportunity to count you as well. Although, that's supposition on my part...)
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Major Krash » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:13 pm

...they count turds...
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby fritz » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Major Krash wrote:...they count turds...


Yes, I heard they weigh the porto trucks as they leave the playa.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby Lonesomebri » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:09 pm

fritz wrote:
Major Krash wrote:...they count turds...


Yes, I heard they weigh the porto trucks as they leave the playa.


Ahhhh....but do they weigh the porta-johns on the way in? Or should this question be moved over to "Stowaways"?
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby SnowBlind » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:45 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:
fritz wrote:
Major Krash wrote:...they count turds...


Yes, I heard they weigh the porto trucks as they leave the playa.


Ahhhh....but do they weigh the porta-johns on the way in? Or should this question be moved over to "Stowaways"?


It's funny, but that probably would be a fairly accurate way of tracking the population, once you know the 'per-person-ratio'.

Reminds me of a documentary about Octoberfest that I saw a couple of years ago. They were talking about the sewage system that serves the field, and it turns out that the gallons of sewage running out is pretty much equal to the gallons of beer sold above.

Shouldn't be that surprising, but somehow it was.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby moonrise » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:32 am

Put them in STEP, it'll help free up extra tix for Jewish gals and Gay Gingers. Seems that'd make a LOT of people happy.

Hopefully I'll be drunk enough to ignore the fact that a large number of the humans out there in 2012 gamed the frickin' system :roll: screw you "gamers"

I miss eplaya & the burn before the 2011 sold out issue & 2012 fucking lottery mess...don't even try to deny it. I know you know, the truth!
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby lemur » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:21 am

moonrise wrote:I miss eplaya & the burn before the 2011 sold out issue & 2012 fucking lottery mess...don't even try to deny it. I know you know, the truth!


yeah but at least this year we got to spend forever on threads like:

DID YOU GET A PRESALE TICKET?
DID YOU GET A TICKET THROUGH THE LOTTERY?
DID YOU GET A STEP TICKET?
DID YOU GET A LOW INCOME TICKET?
DID YOU GET A REGISTRATION EMAIL?
DID YOU GET A STEP EMAIL?
OFFICIAL NOT AWARED TICKETS THREAD!

dozens of 'SOLUTION' threads..
random RANT threads...

ticket palooza!!! etc..

yeah!! i mean.. focusing all of this time on who got a ticket, congratulating them.. or patting them on the back if they didnt get one.. and then flaming folks for their silly solutions sure is a lot better than uhm....... whatever we did before that stuff.... plus it brought in tons of newbs (who rarely left the tickets forum!!!) ..

ALL PRAISE THE TICKET DISTRACTION!
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby moonrise » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:38 am

Lemur, you have become quite the diplomat and I'm impressed. You look at all sides of the coin and are as transparent as possible, again, I'm impressed.

eplaya was different before the sold out and lottery years. We discussed art, interaction, building, and all things burn. I miss that and I know countless others do too.
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby lemur » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:53 am

random bit of info:

Username:lemur
Most active forum:2012 Tickets Discussion (759 Posts / 34.20% of your posts)


DAMN YOU TICKET FORUM!!!
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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby capjbadger » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:08 pm

I've stayed out of it after losing a week to it last year. ;)

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Re: BLM Permit: What Does This Mean For Tickets?

Postby motskyroonmatick » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:44 pm

SnowBlind wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:
fritz wrote:
Yes, I heard they weigh the porto trucks as they leave the playa.


Ahhhh....but do they weigh the porta-johns on the way in? Or should this question be moved over to "Stowaways"?


It's funny, but that probably would be a fairly accurate way of tracking the population, once you know the 'per-person-ratio'.

Reminds me of a documentary about Octoberfest that I saw a couple of years ago. They were talking about the sewage system that serves the field, and it turns out that the gallons of sewage running out is pretty much equal to the gallons of beer sold above.

Shouldn't be that surprising, but somehow it was.


The guys at JOTS Camp (USS) do have a very good idea of the population based on the effluent that they take out of the city. I believe they base their numbers on volume rather than weight.
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