The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

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The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Thirsty » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:47 am

The best way to keep Burning Man the wonderful and magical place that it is, is to structure ticket sales in the following manner. This will insure that the key participants of the event are sure to obtain tickets. Groups 1-3 include the people who make the event what it is and should be assured access to the event that they have developed over the years.

One single payment tier of medium price ($320 ??) with groupings as such:
Group 1- Volunteers and organizers
Group 2 - Artists and Large theme camps with 50+ campers
Group 3 - Smaller them camps and returning burners (3+ years)
Group 4 - Newbies and others with no camp affiliation

Tickets are sold in this order:
Day 1 - Group 1
Day 2 - Group 2
Day 3 - Group 3
Day 4 - Group 4

Low income allotment of 4000 tickets

By using this ticket structure, eventually all Burning Man attendees would be 100% theme camp members, artists, and volunteers.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby FeetOfClay » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:17 pm

By using this ticket structure, eventually all Burning Man attendees would be 100% theme camp members, artists, and volunteers.


Not sure I understand exactly how the above statement would come to pass;
how would there come a time when there were NO newbies/non-affiliated attendees?

I do understand that once PERSON X has attended one burn, and is returning for a second year (with a volunteer role),
he/she moves up a rung on your system's ladder...
but what about PERSON X's best buddy, PERSON Y, who has now learned all about burning man, and wants to go for the first time?
wouldn't every year bring a fresh crop of newbies?

How could there ever be a system with no newcomers?
Also, would we really want that as a community?
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Eric » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:18 pm

Thirsty wrote:One single payment tier of medium price ($320 ??) with groupings as such:
Group 1- Volunteers and organizers
Group 2 - Artists and Large theme camps with 50+ campers
Group 3 - Smaller them camps and returning burners (3+ years)
Group 4 - Newbies and others with no camp affiliation


So who determines if someone is an "artist" or the size of their theme camp? Do only artists who get Honorariums get to be in Group 2, or does any artists placed on the playa? What about all those artists who create for their theme camps, but aren't Honorarium or placed? Or the artists who create things that they place themselves, without going through the Artery?

Do "theme camps" have to be registered? What about the huge amount of camps in the city that aren't registered theme camps? Do they get a chance at tickets, or are they shit out of luck? How do you determine how long someone has been going, especially when the tickets were never tied to individuals except for this year (and even those are a small amount of the whole)? Do all the frat-boys & sparkle-ponies & camp drama queens who've been going for years still get tickets, and why do they get them but not the birgins who are already "stealth Burners"? Why does a Burner who has been camping in Walk-In ("no camp affiliation") not get a ticket until the end, but those aforementioned long-term sparkle-ponies do?

How many tickets in each group? How do you ensure that they're not sold out by Group 2?

Most importantly, how does this deal at all with the simple fact that more people want to go than there are tickets?

By using this ticket structure, eventually all Burning Man attendees would be 100% theme camp members, artists, and volunteers.


No, it ensures the event will wither & die for lack of new blood. There has always been a large percentage of "newbies" in BRC, and those newbies are what keep the jaded old timers fresh. Any method that decides in advance who's "important" is b.s. The only people who are important are the ones required to fullfill the event stipulations with the BLM. Everyone else is fluff. Fabulous, wonderful, brilliant, creative, snarky fluff.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:20 pm

Eric wrote:
Thirsty wrote:One single payment tier of medium price ($320 ??) with groupings as such:
Group 1- Volunteers and organizers
Group 2 - Artists and Large theme camps with 50+ campers
Group 3 - Smaller them camps and returning burners (3+ years)
Group 4 - Newbies and others with no camp affiliation


So who determines if someone is an "artist" or the size of their theme camp? Do only artists who get Honorariums get to be in Group 2, or does any artists placed on the playa? What about all those artists who create for their theme camps, but aren't Honorarium or placed? Or the artists who create things that they place themselves, without going through the Artery?

Do "theme camps" have to be registered? What about the huge amount of camps in the city that aren't registered theme camps? Do they get a chance at tickets, or are they shit out of luck? How do you determine how long someone has been going, especially when the tickets were never tied to individuals except for this year (and even those are a small amount of the whole)? Do all the frat-boys & sparkle-ponies & camp drama queens who've been going for years still get tickets, and why do they get them but not the birgins who are already "stealth Burners"? Why does a Burner who has been camping in Walk-In ("no camp affiliation") not get a ticket until the end, but those aforementioned long-term sparkle-ponies do?

How many tickets in each group? How do you ensure that they're not sold out by Group 2?

Most importantly, how does this deal at all with the simple fact that more people want to go than there are tickets?

By using this ticket structure, eventually all Burning Man attendees would be 100% theme camp members, artists, and volunteers.


No, it ensures the event will wither & die for lack of new blood. There has always been a large percentage of "newbies" in BRC, and those newbies are what keep the jaded old timers fresh. Any method that decides in advance who's "important" is b.s. The only people who are important are the ones required to fullfill the event stipulations with the BLM. Everyone else is fluff. Fabulous, wonderful, brilliant, creative, snarky fluff.

You horrible man! You've burst another bubble with that wicked sharp tongue!
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby RevDusty » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:57 pm

Eric wrote:The only people who are important are the ones required to fullfill the event stipulations with the BLM. Everyone else is fluff. Fabulous, wonderful, brilliant, creative, snarky fluff.


I just might change my playa name to "Fluff".

I kinda like it. :D
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Dr. Pyro » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:26 pm

Or perhaps "Fluffer".
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby RevDusty » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:34 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:Or perhaps "Fluffer".


Well, that changes everything now, doesn't it? :shock:

I'll leave that one to another deserving soul.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby BeachBum » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:24 pm

It's tough to tell if the original poster is real, or just another straw man post for the ePlaya types to snark on.

And, i realize it's useless to make suggestions here, no matter how valid and reasonable they are. Such as the warnings ahead of time that the lottery, as it was being set up, was going to ignite a firestorm of problems, which was nastily shot down by a bunch of people on these boards.

But, anyways, what i like for 2013 is tickets to be allocated based on how much a person wants to go to BRC, and how much they have contributed or will contribute. Rather than just picking people randomly out of who knows how many entries next year. People will be really PO'ed again if it's just a random lottery which doesn't take into account how much a person has contributed or cares about BRC.

So, keep the lottery, but give points, i.e., more entries into the lottery, based on the following factors:
- A couple points (lottery entries) for applying for tickets
- As part of the application, write a one page letter describing what Burning Man means to you, showing that you understand the principles and how to survive, what you have contributed in the past in terms of art, camp infrastructure and interactivity, volunteer stuff at BRC and regionals, and how you plan to contribute and participate this year. Give up to 5 points (lottery entries) for the letter on what BM means to you and your understanding of it, and give up to 5 points (lottery entries) for past contributions. Give up to 5 or so extra points if the application is for a couple applying for two tickets together, and the significant other on the application has contributed themselves.
- Allocate the DPW a few thousand points to distribute among their people, same with gate, same with the Artery, same with the DMV, and the same with rangers. Allocate points accordingly to other volunteer departments at BRC for distribution among their people.
- Allocate the theme camp placers large amounts of points that they can distribute among theme camps as they see fit. Then, the theme camp leads can allocate points to their members as they see fit, based on the members' setup and interactivity contributions to the camp.

Then have the lottery for like 40 thousand tickets, all at one price. There will probably be somewhere around this amount of letters written, leading to percentage chances of getting a ticket of like 20% for a person who doesn't write a letter, 50% for people who take the time to write a coherent letter but haven't really participated in the past (about 5 or 6 points), over 80% for people who have contributed significantly (10 or so points), and well over 95% for core contributors to theme camps and BRC.

Names on tickets to eliminate scalpers, and the remaining tickets can be distributed as the BMORG sees fit.

For some privacy, the applications can have a "key" number assigned to them, which each person would receive in the application confirmation email. Each person would then get their "key" number to their theme camp leads and departments. The theme camp leads and departments can give their points to these "key" numbers rather than to a person's name. The applications could have a one-way link to a name and CC info stored securely on a separate ticketing machine, with no reverse link from the ticketing machine to the entry information to maintain some privacy, by preventing a name->application_info match.

This gets the people who really care about BRC onto the playa, doesn't make the theme camp leads/department heads/placers/... the bad guys if they don't allocate actual tickets to specific camps or to specific individuals, and the BMORG is guaranteed to get all the tickets sold. Win/win/win for all involved, except people who don't do the effort to write a letter or to participate. It can be set up so it's easier and less work for the BMORG to do ticket distribution this way, rather than the directed ticket distribution such as has occurred this year.

I realize it's useless to make a suggestion here, given the nastiness on these boards, but i wanted to give it a try anyways :-(
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby oneeyeddick » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:51 pm

Thirsty wrote:.

One single payment tier of medium price ($320 ??) with groupings as such:
Group 1- Volunteers and organizers
Group 2 - Artists and Large theme camps with 50+ campers
Group 3 - Smaller them camps and returning burners (3+ years)
Group 4 - Newbies and others with no camp affiliation

Tickets are sold in this order:
Day 1 - Group 1
Day 2 - Group 2
Day 3 - Group 3
Day 4 - Group 4



You forgot Group 5 - Rave camps
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby graidawg » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:55 pm

Eric wrote: Everyone else is fluff. Fabulous, wonderful, brilliant, creative, snarky fluff.


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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Leo » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:03 am

You also forgot the following groups:
6. Hippies
7. Sparkle Ponies
8. Shirtcockers
9. Frat Boys
10. Tourists

After all, this is an inclusive event.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby remi » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:38 am

I can appreciate the fact that your thinking of ways to make BM better, however, I don't believe this idea for ticket distributation is right for BM.

2013 = nontransferable except through STEP.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:31 am

BeachBum wrote:It's tough to tell if the original poster is real, or just another straw man post for the ePlaya types to snark on.

The reason we snark so much is that there are so many people coming in and saying the same thing, which usually amounts to: This is My Plan to Make Sure I Get a Ticket From Now On.
Here is a partial list.
There is no reason for us to make sock puppets to mock. And I am one snark who would so love to stop watching people spin their wheels that way... (Straw men are a whole 'nother kettle of fish, by the way.)
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby ApolloPan » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:59 am

Snark aside, I do enjoy how our community has been spit-balling ticket sale ideas on behalf of the Borg. Honestly, I do like the single price tear ideas -when tempered by an expansion of the Low-Income Tickets, in the rare event that an extra 80 dollars puts someone's chance to go just out of reach.
On a related note, the mention of "how would we determine who is an artist/ how long they've been burning?" has me thinking again. A dangerous habit, I know -leads to crazy desert art festivals & such- but I do recall, quite vividly, that the Lottery required me to fill out a rather extensive questionnaire, which asked all of the above noted questions outlined at the beginning of this post. Why exactly was that information collected?

Finally, on a personal note, practicing quiet acts of kindness has been a long-term theme of Burning Man for me. Somehow, having to justify my value to the community & rehash all that I've ever contributed seems, well, heartless. As a heathen priest,
I'm sure most everyone has given & received their share of blessings on the playa; let's kindly remember to pay those gifts forward.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:03 pm

That information was not connected to your ticket. It was collected to get a better idea of who was buying, what their past ticketing experiences had been. I'm sure Trilo can tell you more.

I don't think that any sort of "self-reporting" as to our artistic inclinations and prowess will lead to any increase in artists in BRC. Except bs artists, of course.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby HandJamMasterC » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:08 pm

The more ideas on how to solve this problem the better. I still think that we should be able to raise the population cap by asking some of the same theme camp folks that come early to set up ( thereby lessening the incoming traffic on Sunday night / Monday morning as a byproduct of early arrival ) to stay a day or two late ( with a modification to the BLM permit to allow such ) in order to lessen the Monday exodus. I have no problem staying until Tuesday or even Wed. ( and I can help moop after Monday ). Just like DPW and other infrastructure people stay late. :!:
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:11 pm

Unenforcible. Can you see having to show something during Exodus that proves you can leave the playa? Yeah, the process needs to slow d...o...w...n..................
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby HandJamMasterC » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:15 pm

No, as a theme camp operator you would volunteer. And that is enforceable. You don't do what you say you are going to do as a theme camp ( in many regards including activities etc. ), you don't get asked back or placed. I for one would volunteer to stay late and so would several of my camp mates.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:18 pm

How many placed theme camps are there? 500? With two people from each theme camp, that's only 1000 cars. 500 if you're carpooling.

My guess is that's not much of a dent in the total getting off of the playa on Monday. Especially as many theme campers already stay until Tuesday.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby HandJamMasterC » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:30 pm

There were 700 theme camps last year I believe. We had maybe 15 people in our camp? We would have had 4 trucks and a trailer stay late. And we are only a 100' x 100' theme camp.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby HandJamMasterC » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:31 pm

The only way I could car pool is if I rented a tractor trailer to haul all my theme camp crap out............. :shock:
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:40 pm

Well, big trucks out of the line would free up some space...
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby BBadger » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:21 pm

I think people posting "ticket solutions" as their first post and a new thread shouldn't get tickets. We'd have a glut of tickets available.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Rice » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:33 pm

Well, I have the perfect ticket sales solution:


"{sound of crickets chirping}"


There ya go. There is nothing in the default world to compare to burning Man. (anyone who claims otherwise is missing some critical piece of information!)

... Ok, I have no idea on a so-called "perfect" solution. A) Get less people to want tickets so everyone who wishes to purchase a ticket can. B) Make a whole bunch of changes to BM so that more people can attend (envision hand waving in a vague fashion here)

I have a theory that the majority of people who refer to Burning Man as a "festival" did nothing but party for a week.

Bacon.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Marscrumbs » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:02 pm

Maybe a Logan's Run solution. After X number of burns you can't come back.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby pink » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:54 pm

HandJamMasterC wrote:There were 700 theme camps last year I believe. We had maybe 15 people in our camp? We would have had 4 trucks and a trailer stay late. And we are only a 100' x 100' theme camp.


Don't you get it? There's nothing keeping you and/or your camp from leaving on Tuesday. I left on Tuesday last year. after an accident on I-80 caused the 9 hour backup at the gate, BMIR was IMPLORING people to please stay another day. We turned Retrofrolic into Refugee Camp, and had a blast with people that didn't leave. I've heard that DPW might start asking when you're leaving on Wednesday or so, but haven't tested that yet.

The only drawback is no NDN tacos on 447 or car washes set up. But no back up at Exodus either.
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby Rice » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:59 am

pink wrote:
HandJamMasterC wrote:There were 700 theme camps last year I believe. We had maybe 15 people in our camp? We would have had 4 trucks and a trailer stay late. And we are only a 100' x 100' theme camp.


Don't you get it? There's nothing keeping you and/or your camp from leaving on Tuesday. I left on Tuesday last year. after an accident on I-80 caused the 9 hour backup at the gate, BMIR was IMPLORING people to please stay another day. We turned Retrofrolic into Refugee Camp, and had a blast with people that didn't leave. I've heard that DPW might start asking when you're leaving on Wednesday or so, but haven't tested that yet.

The only drawback is no NDN tacos on 447 or car washes set up. But no back up at Exodus either.

We had Indian Tacos on Tuesday evening post-burn. Didn't have to stop once while driving from the greeter's station to the pavement.

I believe the majority of the BRC citizens need to leave BRC by the end of Tuesday... Anyone who wishes to stay longer needs to be part of the playa restoration (or at least have authorization to be there from the Burning Man LLC.).

YMMV
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby HandJamMasterC » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:41 am

Don't you get it? There's nothing keeping you and/or your camp from leaving on Tuesday. I left on Tuesday last year.


I do get it. I plan on leaving Tuesday this year. I left Monday at 5 pm last year and I didn't get home ( Sacramento area ) until Tuesday morning anyway, due to 5+ hours to the pavement, numerous accidents on the road and 2 rest breaks becaues I was tired and pulling a trailer.............
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby pink » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:26 am

Damn, I left at about 1pm. No NDN stands up at all. And I was HUNGRY after breaking down camp!
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Re: The perfect solution for 2013 ticket sales

Postby oneeyeddick » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:21 am

we always leave on wednesday, and they are always up and running, at least for the last 4 years they have been.
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