Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

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Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby VampireKitten » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:06 pm

I for one am extremely disappointed in the cancellation of the open ticket sale. I know no one else cares, but I am coming on here to complain in hopes that BMORG understands that this really isn't fair. I can see taking SOME of those tickets for Art/Theme camps, but all of them? Did the lottery really go to that many noobies? Or are people just not being vocal about winning tickets and how come those noobies aren't being vocal? I have so many questions!

How about me? Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I don't want to go as much as the rest of you. We put into the lottery like everyone else, we've waited patiently and even set aside the funds (as we don't qualify as low income). We've been making preparations to go, got bikes, have been looking into camp options and so on.

What are the odds that STEP will even provide tickets to my boyfriend and I? slim. We are new and I feel like we are being punished for it. It's discouraging and I was hoping to participate this year to experience it so that I could create next year. I'm ready to give up.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby Rice » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:17 pm

VampireKitten wrote:I for one am extremely disappointed in the cancellation of the open ticket sale. I know no one else cares, but I am coming on here to complain in hopes that BMORG understands that this really isn't fair. I can see taking SOME of those tickets for Art/Theme camps, but all of them? Did the lottery really go to that many noobies? Or are people just not being vocal about winning tickets and how come those noobies aren't being vocal? I have so many questions!

How about me? Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I don't want to go as much as the rest of you. We put into the lottery like everyone else, we've waited patiently and even set aside the funds (as we don't qualify as low income). We've been making preparations to go, got bikes, have been looking into camp options and so on.

What are the odds that STEP will even provide tickets to my boyfriend and I? slim. We are new and I feel like we are being punished for it. It's discouraging and I was hoping to participate this year to experience it so that I could create next year. I'm ready to give up.


Well, I know this won't help how you are feeling!! There simply are more people than tickets. Some will not be able to go.

Registering with STEP will at least give you a chance of getting tickets. They have changed it so both of you have a chance (that is better than a few weeks ago).

If you give up there is not chance you will make it! However, if you keep trying, there is a chance. ;)

Lots of people end up not being able to attend, and their tickets go on sale in the summer. There is always a chance of getting them that way.

I was a virgin burner once myself. I think that anyone who gets a ticket should have the opportunity to go, regardless of how often they have attended. I do not necessarily agree with how the ticket situation has turned out, but everyone involved is in unchartered territories.

Maybe I'll see ya on the playa!
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby dr.placebo » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:09 pm

I have to agree here. If you really want to go, don't give up. There will be tickets showing up via STEP and other routes as the summer progresses. Try to avoid scammers and scalpers, though, it's not worth the risk.

Based on what I've seen from the org and generally reliable posters, burners from theme camps only got about 1/3 of their requested tickets, just like the general public. Self-reported stats indicate that first-timers got about 40% of the lottery tickets. The math is, at best, approximate, but it points to a big jump in demand as the main culprit, which means that putting the 10k tickets into the general sale would still leave a lot of folks without tickets.

A number of theme camps started to bail on the news. The fear was that many theme camps would not go, since if a camp does not have enough of its critical people it just can't go. So a lot of the art, music, and social spaces (and bars) would be missing. Maybe those who got tickets would cope, but there was the potential of having a lot of people much less prepared than normal, and having a playa much less rich. One can argue that this might not have been so bad, and that education would follow rapidly, but it also had the potential to dismantle a community that has been building for years.

So the org scrambled to try to pull together enough of the committed contributors as it could. We won't know for a while if this attempt will be successful, but to me it seems worth trying. Just FYI, I'm a veteran, but not an org or staff member.

The BLM permit has not been issued, so the ticket supply could rise a little (maybe). I don't know how likely this is, and given the difficulties already encountered it might not be such a good idea, but it is still possible.

I'm assuming that scalpers did not make a huge dent in the supply, but I could be wrong. In any case, staying prepared to go and waiting it out may be your best chance to get a reasonably priced ticket. If you don't get a ticket, then doing some desert camping would be a good way to make use of your preparations. Good luck!
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby VampireKitten » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:54 pm

It just makes me wonder, I have known about and have been thinking about BM for years (more or less on how to survive on the Playa), do that 40% of noob sales really know what it's in for? It's cool hearing about it via the news or whatever, but I have a feeling (and hears hoping) a LOT of them wont be prepared and will pull out and submit their tickets to STEP.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby trilobyte » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:40 am

Difficult to say. I've seen people with little preparation adapt fairly well, and those who've planned for years who completely lose their shit or end up doing a trip to the medical tent by Tuesday. Burning Man has had high percentages of the population being new to the event before, and managed to survive.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby graidawg » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:06 am

I do have a question, what about the people who didnt register for the lottery? it seems they can't use step and now they cant get tickets from the open sale either.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby Sham » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:26 am

graidawg wrote:I do have a question, what about the people who didnt register for the lottery? it seems they can't use step and now they cant get tickets from the open sale either.

What is your question?
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby mshaman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:16 am

VampireKitten wrote:I for one am extremely disappointed in the cancellation of the open ticket sale. I know no one else cares, but I am coming on here to complain in hopes that BMORG understands that this really isn't fair. I can see taking SOME of those tickets for Art/Theme camps, but all of them? Did the lottery really go to that many noobies? Or are people just not being vocal about winning tickets and how come those noobies aren't being vocal? I have so many questions!

How about me? Just because I'm a noob, doesn't mean I don't want to go as much as the rest of you. We put into the lottery like everyone else, we've waited patiently and even set aside the funds (as we don't qualify as low income). We've been making preparations to go, got bikes, have been looking into camp options and so on.

What are the odds that STEP will even provide tickets to my boyfriend and I? slim. We are new and I feel like we are being punished for it. It's discouraging and I was hoping to participate this year to experience it so that I could create next year. I'm ready to give up.


1. Many of us DO care and have been have been so vocal about this ticket process that it has in fact caused a lot of friction. I don't like friction, but it can be the price-tag of activism, and until I see a rational, competently executed process (perhaps 2013), I'm going to be vocal about what needs to change. Hopefully that role is short-lived and I can get back to my real love, designing and building sick infrastructure and art cars.

2. The odds of STEP providing the desired tickets are a matter of conjecture. The sense I have after having put out feelers to literally hundreds in the community is that the odds of getting a STEP ticket are very, very low.

3. Anyone who didn't register for STEP or get chosen to be one of the preferred 10,000 has no opportunity for a ticket through BMOrg. The only avenue for these people is the secondary market. Tickets are being advertised on StubHub for $1500-$500 each, but if you buy one and the Org finds out about it, the ticket could be cancelled. Searching Craigslist right before the burn, when people have real, physical tickets that they need to get rid of before it's too late is probably your best bet.

4. I haven't given up on Burning Man, but I have given up on my group getting enough more tickets to execute our original plan this year. There simply are not enough people to do the work. The rest will get done next year, assuming the ticket process is authored more responsibly.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby 5280MeV » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:42 am

VampireKitten wrote:I have known about and have been thinking about BM for years (more or less on how to survive on the Playa), do that 40% of noob sales really know what it's in for?


Not that I have any real data (just a jumble of anecdotes), but I think that for the most part, new people have a very good idea of what they are in for, and are preparing way ahead of time. They didn't see this on MTV, they likely found out through social networks - which means that they are in touch with people who have been before, bouncing ideas around, and getting a lot of advice.

Furthermore, people rise to their level of expectations. There is actually a push this year for new people to do more than drink water and pee in the appropriate receptacle. So people will do more.

There is a certain level of conceit here that if one has not specifically been to Burning Man, one will be effectively clueless about life on the playa. I think that this is overblown. There will be people coming with military experience in desert theater, backgrounds in medicine, extreme outdoor sports, regional burns, and a plethora of other real life experiences and skills. Even many of the commercial festivals foster something of a camping culture of abundance, sharing, and building stuff.

Do I expect groups of newcomers to build a fire breathing octopus truck? Probably Not. Do I expect groups of newcomers to RTFM on making a monkey hut, stake it down with rebar reasonably well, play some music on their D-cell powered boombox, and serve margaritas and bacon to passers by on a few afternoons? Probably.

If this whole "radical inclusion" thing means welcoming and respecting the stranger, then it might be worthwhile to expect the stranger to be capable of more than sitting in the corner and eating paste. Sure, some strangers will prove incapable, just as some veteran burners return each year to further convince everyone around them that they are in fact incapable.

I say this as someone who has engaged in the type of thinking that I am denouncing above.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby BBadger » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:51 am

While I've never been one to complain much about how the system was originally designed, I do think changing the rules mid-game, and essentially pulling the rug out on people betting on the open sale (I certainly was had I not gotten lucky) is definitely unfair. I figure the end-result would've been the same too, as most camps would've simply gotten their shit together on opening day and bought up all the necessary tickets. Plus the fact that this 10k ticket distribution probably won't occur that much before the open sale would've occurred, it doesn't grant that much extra time.

But all that said, there's not much you can do now. Hopefully BMOrg does only allocate tickets that are needed to make the more major camps function properly. Reserving tickets for vital infrastructure and people who "make things happen" is one thing, simply favoring established camps so that their members--regardless of their past/known involvement--can get tickets is absolute bullshit. Of course that leaves holes too, such as people involved in projects that weren't named in projects, or that kind of thing.

Life ain't fair, and no system is fair by everybody's standards. I expect most individuals will be able to attend though, as people's plans fall out. Stay vigilant.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby mshaman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:11 pm

5280MeV wrote:
VampireKitten wrote:I have known about and have been thinking about BM for years (more or less on how to survive on the Playa), do that 40% of noob sales really know what it's in for?


Not that I have any real data (just a jumble of anecdotes), but I think that for the most part, new people have a very good idea of what they are in for, and are preparing way ahead of time. They didn't see this on MTV, they likely found out through social networks - which means that they are in touch with people who have been before, bouncing ideas around, and getting a lot of advice.

Furthermore, people rise to their level of expectations. There is actually a push this year for new people to do more than drink water and pee in the appropriate receptacle. So people will do more.

There is a certain level of conceit here that if one has not specifically been to Burning Man, one will be effectively clueless about life on the playa. I think that this is overblown. There will be people coming with military experience in desert theater, backgrounds in medicine, extreme outdoor sports, regional burns, and a plethora of other real life experiences and skills. Even many of the commercial festivals foster something of a camping culture of abundance, sharing, and building stuff.

Do I expect groups of newcomers to build a fire breathing octopus truck? Probably Not. Do I expect groups of newcomers to RTFM on making a monkey hut, stake it down with rebar reasonably well, play some music on their D-cell powered boombox, and serve margaritas and bacon to passers by on a few afternoons? Probably.

If this whole "radical inclusion" thing means welcoming and respecting the stranger, then it might be worthwhile to expect the stranger to be capable of more than sitting in the corner and eating paste. Sure, some strangers will prove incapable, just as some veteran burners return each year to further convince everyone around them that they are in fact incapable.

I say this as someone who has engaged in the type of thinking that I am denouncing above.


Frogbird, well said, as usual. +10
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby stinkyfoot » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:44 am

VampireKitten wrote:It just makes me wonder, I have known about and have been thinking about BM for years (more or less on how to survive on the Playa), do that 40% of noob sales really know what it's in for?


I'm thinking that answer to that question is yes if they're buying tickets in January. I would not be shocked to learn that a large part of that 40% is eighties kids who've been hearing about the event for years, have reached a place where they're comfortable taking a week long camping trip in the desert and only need to see how well the environment agrees with them for the first time.

If you just look at generational statistics, the rise in interest in Burning Man coincides very neatly with a critical number of gen-y'ers getting into their mid 20's, early 30's, which is a prime age for us geeky, thoughtful, builder types to want to go to this thing. I definitely count myself in that group. It'd be really interesting if someone had added a little subsection for noobs in that ticket survey that asked how old they were and how long they had been aware of Burning Man before deciding to go.

On the plus that probably means more chances for fire breathing whatevers and less poi-spinning sparkle ponies among potentials, so that can't be all bad.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby glitter-mouse » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 am

40% virgins. probably 40% to 2nd & 3rd year participants = newbie fest.

i like the sound of this. it could be a great year with so many enthusiastic, non-jaded participants. there will be less stuff and fewer camps, but i think the enthusiasm of the newbies will make up for that. it'll be a much more intimate burn.

BMorg had to cancel the open ticket sale for all the reasons they stated. they need to protect the brand and at a minimum the esplanade needs to look proper so that the rest of the world won't think anything has changed. it's been that way for years, anyway. if you go one block off the esplanade it's dark and empty. there was a time when the coolest shit was happening on the inner blocks.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:33 am

glitter-mouse wrote:...they need to protect the brand...

I think I just threw-up in my mouth a little...
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby glitter-mouse » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:02 am

theCryptofishist wrote:I think I just threw-up in my mouth a little...

yep, the truth is quite sickening. all these years you've devoted yourself to the promotion of someone else's brand. not many burners can see that. you've taken your first step into a larger world - good for you, tiger!
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:07 am

Oh dear, I rolled my eyes so hard they fell on the floor.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby junglesmacks » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:11 am

Screw promoting someone's brand.. I'm just there for the hookers and blow.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby Shadowcasting » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:14 pm

I've been pretty vocal about how the initial "lottery" idea was a complete cluster and how long the apology took. BUT now.... I think we all (myself included) have to cut the BMORG some slack.

I think pulling the sale and distributing through theme camps was the only real solution at this point. Going forward with the open sale would have 1) made the situation worse (I suspect) and 2) not necessarily address the large theme camp issue. Sometimes, you just have to stop the bleed. That's what I think they've done here. Is it perfect? No. Will everyone be happy? No. In that sense it really is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Is distribution through theme camps the best thing for the community right now? Under the difficult circumstances, yeah, I think so.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby glitter-mouse » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:49 pm

i think we all need to come to terms with the fact the large theme camps are unnecessary and actually impede a good burn.

only then can we heel.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby BBadger » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:44 pm

Ignore the glitter-louse troll.

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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby lemur » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:35 pm


27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby C187 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:37 am

Shambala wrote:
graidawg wrote:I do have a question, what about the people who didnt register for the lottery? it seems they can't use step and now they cant get tickets from the open sale either.

What is your question?


Come now Shambala, Graidawg does have a valid question concerning people who skipped the lottery sale thinking they would be able to buy a ticket during the open sale. But now can not, and have been locked out of buying one on STEP because they never registered for the lottery. The STEP system could of been the only good way for some of these people to buy a ticket. You have to remember not every participant lives in an area with a local community.

I for one am with Graidawg, and would like to see an answer to this question soon.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby trilobyte » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:05 am

The answer is that people who did not register for the lottery are not eligible to participate in STEP. Their only option would be the after-market, either connecting with friends/campmates who may have unneeded tickets, or looking for ticket offers once fulfillment happens in June.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby remi » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:16 am

trilobyte wrote:The answer is that people who did not register for the lottery are not eligible to participate in STEP. Their only option would be the after-market, either connecting with friends/campmates who may have unneeded tickets, or looking for ticket offers once fulfillment happens in June.



That's a pretty big kick in the junk for those who's cc were maxed out during the Xmas season. For those people who thought "hey, at least theres an open sale, or else I would have made every attempt to be in the lotto." It would have been pretty ethical for BM to have some tickets available in the open ticket sale... oh well, now all these people are going to crash the low income tickets.. because it's easy to find/make a document that indicates you qualify for low income. Now lets just hope that all the scalpers that double/tripple/quadruple dipped into the lotto don't also sign up for STEP. Let hope they are all very stupid.

Sorry for the negative post.. Obviously I have a couple friends in this situation.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:25 am

remi wrote: Now lets just hope that all the scalpers that double/tripple/quadruple dipped into the lotto don't also sign up for STEP. Let hope they are all very stupid.



If they do, then guess what? That scalper is forced to actually show up.

Any tickets awarded in STEP are 100% NON-TRANSFERABLE and can only be claimed by the original purchaser via will call.

Q: Can I transfer tickets I buy through STEP to somebody else after I buy them?
A: No, tickets purchased through STEP are non-transferable. Both tickets will be held at Will Call under the name of the purchaser. If both parties are arriving separately, the buyer of the ticket may collect both tickets and then leave the second under the other name at the Will Call window.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby remi » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:35 am

Ahh.. had a brain fart there. But that still doesn't solve the problem from the Burners that didn't register in the lotto. Also, there are scalpers that already sold tickets on stubhu. What if they take the sellers names and put those names on the STEP tickets, then contact the buyer and indicate that there ticket is being held at willcall.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:54 am

remi wrote:Ahh.. had a brain fart there. But that still doesn't solve the problem from the Burners that didn't register in the lotto. Also, there are scalpers that already sold tickets on stubhu. What if they take the sellers names and put those names on the STEP tickets, then contact the buyer and indicate that there ticket is being held at willcall.



True.. but in all honesty I think the actual number of tickets sold by scalpers via inflated price through an online site is miniscule at this point and shouldn't really affect the STEP sale. IMHO.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby remi » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:04 am

junglesmacks wrote:
remi wrote:Ahh.. had a brain fart there. But that still doesn't solve the problem from the Burners that didn't register in the lotto. Also, there are scalpers that already sold tickets on stubhu. What if they take the sellers names and put those names on the STEP tickets, then contact the buyer and indicate that there ticket is being held at willcall.



True.. but in all honesty I think the actual number of tickets sold by scalpers via inflated price through an online site is miniscule at this point and shouldn't really affect the STEP sale. IMHO.



Ya, actually, after looking around, I think the entire "tickets in the hand of scalpers" thing was blown a little out of proportion.

The only thing that sucks is that people that didn't go into the lotto because they thought they had an open sale are now getting screwed, and that's going to increase the number of people registering for low income that would normally be able to afford top teir tickets. These same people, knowing what they do now, would have probably gladly spent less money during the xmas season to greatly increase there odds of getting a ticket.

I'm trying to convince my friends to just plan to go, and find tickets in the days leading up to the event (which is when I assume you'd be able to find tickets for cost/below face value.) That's just easier said then done though. I requested that they reconsider applying for low-income because they do make good money, (that money is 'under the table' work, so they have plenty of paperwork that claim they are 'low income.')

What would have been a good idea (wayyy to late now) When they realized the demand far exceeds the supply (prior to the main sale lotto,) they should have taken 10,000 tickets from the lotto for theme camps and kept the open sale. Shit that's a good idea... too bad I'm only 6 weeks late.
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:07 am

remi wrote:I requested that they reconsider applying for low-income because they do make good money, (that money is 'under the table' work, so they have plenty of paperwork that claim they are 'low income.')


TSK TSK! BAD.. BAD BURGIN!

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Just fucking with you. That's pretty lame though..
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Re: Cancelled Open Ticket Sale.

Postby trilobyte » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:12 am

@remi - scarcity's a bitch, I'm afraid. Hopefully your friends are able to find tickets in the after-market.
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