Principal #1

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Re: Principal #1

Postby remi » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:35 pm

Life isn't fair. Waaa.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:37 pm

In other news, I did just save a bunch of money on my car insurance.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby ZaphodBurner » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:25 pm

remi wrote:Life isn't fair. Waaa.


That sounds like something somebody says when they're robbing you. :>
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Elliot » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:52 pm

M. Bison wrote:"Principal #1: No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."

Never mind the ticket crap. I want a literacy test as a prerequisite for participation on ePlaya.

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Re: Principal #1

Postby playawaya » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:57 pm

lesson #1 CREAM

[ticket listing details removed]
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Re: Principal #1

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:13 pm

*yawn*

Last year's sock trolls were better.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby RedHeaven » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:45 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
M. Bison wrote: I've never burned


Then you don't get it. It's not your fault, but, you just don't.

You're not going to be able to get it until you've been there, and nobody's going to be able to adequately explain to you how Black Rock City used to be when the first three streets were populated by groups of people who shared their weekends all year long, or year around, to participate in BRC. When the trapeze troupes, fire spinners or other groups performed rehearsed material all day and night.

Soul in the Machine is one of the most incredibly fascinating musical performances I've seen, and The Mutaytor shows were awesome, but, such things might be impossible for YOU to experience this year. To put this in the context of a concert: You don't tell the artists "Sorry, you can't come in the building. The show sold out."

Camp operators are among those legally responsible if some douchebag fucktard "participant" helps himself to the liquor and happens to be underage, or undercover. You can't just build a camp off of Craigslist or the ePlaya, because, how do you know you're not going to wake up in the morning and discover that one of your new friends hasn't left the playa with your camp generator and bikes. How do you know the stranger you're camping with isn't a predator or a violent drunk? If you say "Hey, this is my camp, everybody's welcome to help me," are you prepared to be sued if somebody cracks their foot or impales themselves on one of your new friends' rebar stakes, or somebody gets killed on your mutant vehicle?

On the playa, I split most of my days between working on the vehicle, slinging root beer or absinthe, and volunteering at the airport. My wife does her own volunteer things. It's like working; we meet in the afternoon. And, the way I view it, we're not going to get to buy camp core tickets because OTHER PEOPLE WORK EVEN HARDER.

Burning Man is hard. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be any fun.

I don't think you get it, but, I don't blame you because there's nowhere else like Black Rock City. It's not like a party where everybody just shows up in cool clothes, has a good time and leaves when they feel like it. If it's reduced to that, it will cease to be Black Rock City.

Until you've experienced it, you simply cannot understand.



Excellent post but it did leave me with a hard case of the ticket guilts....
I wonder if I will spend my time in BRC this year wondering if I am working hard enough for my ticket?
Maybe I have some work to do......I aint no sparkle pony but I am what I call a "third tier burner" :oops:
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Re: Principal #1

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:48 pm

Really, the nature of the burn is change. I think it does us good to be reminded that the ground beneath our feet isn't actually solid. Or that there aren't any feet, I suppose. Having a list of "must have" experiences is like that pin that holds the dead butterfly to the card. IMHO.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Eric » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:10 pm

RedHeaven wrote:Excellent post but it did leave me with a hard case of the ticket guilts....
I wonder if I will spend my time in BRC this year wondering if I am working hard enough for my ticket?
Maybe I have some work to do......I aint no sparkle pony but I am what I call a "third tier burner" :oops:
OK maybe second tier when I'm good


Anyone tells you you're not "working hard enough" or "took the ticket away from someone else", tell them "FUCK YOUR DAY", loudly.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:49 pm

Eric wrote:Anyone tells you you're not "working hard enough" or "took the ticket away from someone else", tell them "FUCK YOUR DAY", loudly.


Hopefully the ticket that was "taken away" from someone else is the same person who receives the "FUCK YOUR DAY." You've done the playa a favor by sparing us that person's presence.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby tamarakay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:59 pm

BBadger wrote:
Eric wrote:Anyone tells you you're not "working hard enough" or "took the ticket away from someone else", tell them "FUCK YOUR DAY", loudly.


Hopefully the ticket that was "taken away" from someone else is the same person who receives the "FUCK YOUR DAY." You've done the playa a favor by sparing us that person's presence.


I can't do anything but agree with this.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Trishntek » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:40 pm

Stickygreen wrote:
Trishntek wrote:The ticket allotment for these organizations is based upon their history, their GIFT to BRC, and their allegiance to the 10 principles. If they receive an offering of tickets, they must still purchase them at $420 per ticket. The tickets are not "given" as you state..



Once you expect something in return for a gift it is no longer a gift.. it's a trade.

if I were you, I'd use that word Gift a little more carefully, especially to a person who has never experienced BM.

So is a GIFT defined by the motive of the GIVER or the perception of an observer. It reminds me when I GIVE something to someone, Trish finds out about it and immediately suspicions I have ulterior motives.

Why is it so difficult to understand a gift is unconditional? A gift is an unmerited expression of generosity.

If you are motivated by glory-seeking, ticket-receiving, festival attending or laid getting, IT'S NOT A GIFT!

If you feel indebted, ingratiated, ticket guilt, no fun or no glory by receiving a gift, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! It in no way affects the motive of the giver of a true gift.

Now GRATEFULNESS is always appreciated! When anyone ever asks me, "What is Burning Man?" My shortest answer is simply, "It's a gathering of the most generous, grateful and unpretentious group of people you will ever experience." Nowadays, I'm not sure,,,,
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Re: Principal #1

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:34 am

Trishntek wrote:So is a GIFT defined by the motive of the GIVER or the perception of an observer. It reminds me when I GIVE something to someone, Trish finds out about it and immediately suspicions I have ulterior motives.


When people don't understand the distinction, I explain that: you give gifts, while you exchange presents.

The present exchanges are often what people hate about the holidays and with starting Christmas/birthday traditions everybody gets sick of after some time.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Stickygreen » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:45 am

Trishntek wrote:So is a GIFT defined by the motive of the GIVER or the perception of an observer. It reminds me when I GIVE something to someone, Trish finds out about it and immediately suspicions I have ulterior motives.

Why is it so difficult to understand a gift is unconditional? A gift is an unmerited expression of generosity.

If you are motivated by glory-seeking, ticket-receiving, festival attending or laid getting, IT'S NOT A GIFT!

If you feel indebted, ingratiated, ticket guilt, no fun or no glory by receiving a gift, THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM! It in no way affects the motive of the giver of a true gift.

Now GRATEFULNESS is always appreciated! When anyone ever asks me, "What is Burning Man?" My shortest answer is simply, "It's a gathering of the most generous, grateful and unpretentious group of people you will ever experience." Nowadays, I'm not sure,,,,



The term BMorg used to define what camps get the tickets does not have the word gift in it, and for very good reason..

just to be clear, here are the criteria they are using.

1 History – A camp, project or participatory work must be in our database from past years. (We have ways to track name changes for groups over time.)
2 Demonstrated Community Benefit – A project has been interactive in a way that has been experienced as meaningful, provides support for Black Rock City’s infrastructure, or provides services for our community. Basically, how the project helps make the community and create its magic.
3 LNT – A group has demonstrated adherence to and good practices around Leave No Trace and are committed to our community perpetuating the message of LNT.
4 10 Principles – A group or project fully embraces the 10 Principles in their entirety.


A gift is a gift, without strings attached, as defined by the giver, or recipient, it doesn't matter. A gift does not need to be material, it can be made of time, or an experience. even a thought.. We the burning man participants know about gifts, as this is one of the lessons the playa teaches so many of us, the BMorg knows this.... so to decide tickets based on gifts if kind of ass backwards gifting logic.

either way, to someone who has never been to the burn, and probably thinks gifts are something you give to others that give you gifts in return only on special occasions, like birthdays and christmas, this is not a good term to use.. The playa has taught us that a gift is in fact a gift, something you give to another without merit, or expectation of return, just like i have now given you the gift of correct knowledge..
)'(
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Trishntek » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:14 am

A rose by any other name,,,,
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Re: Principal #1

Postby The CO » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:31 am

The gift you give already belongs to the person you give it to.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby ygmir » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:33 am

I'll call you tomorrow
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Re: Principal #1

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:49 am

I won't cum in your mouth...
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Re: Principal #1

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:22 pm

One in the bush is worth two in the hand.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby tamarakay » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:37 pm

BBadger wrote:One in the bush is worth two in the hand.


Well duh. And that solves the whole in the mouth issue.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Trishntek » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:39 pm

BBadger wrote:One in the bush is worth two in the hand.

You can have your cake and eat it too,,,
or is it,,,,
You can eat your cake and have it too?

ETA: or is it the antithesis of these? i.e. cannot instead of can?
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Re: Principal #1

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 pm

The cake is a lie.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Trishntek » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Please sir,,,, may I have more?
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Re: Principal #1

Postby dr.placebo » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 pm

M. Bison wrote:"Principal #1: No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."


Participation in the community is not identical to having a ticket for the main event on the playa this year. A general spirit of inclusion does not guarantee individual access to a limited resource. Being on the playa is not the only way to participate.

In a sense, you are already participating. You've made a point (however redundant) on ePlaya, so clearly the bar for participating has not been set overly high.

In reward for your participation, you will not be penalized for confusing principle and principal.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby socks » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:04 pm

The theme camps were too big to fail and had to be bailed out at others expense.Gee sounds like we heard this before.This is a money grab for the BM.org.They were able to sell almost half of the 53,000 tickets at the highest tier.Yes 25,000 tickets were sold at 390 and 420 each.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:39 pm

socks wrote:The theme camps were too big to fail and had to be bailed out at others expense.Gee sounds like we heard this before.This is a money grab for the BM.org.They were able to sell almost half of the 53,000 tickets at the highest tier.Yes 25,000 tickets were sold at 390 and 420 each.


Just a minor technicality: those 10,000 tickets sell for $390 regardless if they sell to theme camps or if they had gone for the Open Sale. They are making zero dollars different on that, so if it's a money grab they're far stupider than you think. They've also sold more than half above tier 2 for years, so it's amazing no-one complained before now.

Also, if you're combining the $390 & $420 tickets, it's 28,000 sold, not 25,000. 3,000 at $420, 15,000 at $390 in the main drawing, 10,000 in whatever the new volunteer/theme camp/art sale is being called.
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Re: Principal #1

Postby HandJamMasterC » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:40 pm

Theme camps that are fortunate enough to be placed and be allowed to purchase additional tickets for their core members ( if needed ) are being given the opportunity to come and spread as much unconditional love to all Black Rock City citizens, new and old, as their energy and bank accounts will allow. Which is what we always do...........
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Re: Principal #1

Postby HandJamMasterC » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:11 am

Well, that and lots of free booze.............. 8)
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Re: Principal #1

Postby Lassen Forge » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:05 am

The CO wrote:The gift you give already belongs to the person you give it to.


Exactamundo x100 +1... I've had deep and somewhat animated conversations about that one with people - How they cannot get this is beyond me. What is given in love, is still GIVEN, not leased or loaned. I think even Ushakov's (or Websters, for that matter) Dictionary would describe as such. Beautifully put, CO - you are beacon of truth in strange culture!

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Re: Principal #1

Postby ZaphodBurner » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:10 am

socks wrote:The theme camps were too big to fail and had to be bailed out at others expense.


So, don't go. Nobody's "bailing theme camps out at others' expense," unless you somehow bought a ticket and got it revoked.

And, unless you've tried to put together a theme project, you can't really have an idea of what "at others' expense means." If you're building something, it starts with the raw materials and all the spring and summer weekends you sacrifice to bring stuff to Black Rock City. Our friends don't have tickets yet but they're getting ready to drop thousands on a trailer to haul other people's art and mutant vehicle out to the playa. To hear some individual who hasn't spent money yet holler about their "expense" is a bit.... ....what is it?

Most theme camps are only 8-20 people, each volunteering hours a day to entertain people like you. There are about 700 of them at any burn, and, the fact is they're more interesting than bunch of snarky hipster individuals wandering around enjoying people's gifts and services.

If you have a problem with Burning Man, don't go. I'm only able to go every other year, and so I promise you that not only will somebody appreciate your ticket as much as you, I also promise that you'll survive the experience.
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