Corruption of Conclave

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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby Canoe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:57 pm

Anonymice wrote:I heard through the grapevine that one conclave group and possibly another on the west coast as /selling/ spots in their group before they are even accepted for this year's burn.

This is what I was most worried about with tickets getting so thin last year. I mean, I saw first hand 2 people buy their way into a conclave group and brag about it, but now it's just gotten completely obvious.

Furthermore, what does this mean for Theme Camps? If allowances are going to be made for Theme Camps, what is to stop them from selling spots to people with the money to burn? This favors the Burner with money, not necessarily the Burner that contributes the most.

Sad, sad days my friends.


Highly unlikely.
Why?
Not enough tickets. Nobody will have tickets to spare. Apart from essentials, like Black Rock Rangers, everybody will be short.
They have to direct the tickets to the core workers/contributors and pull off what camp/art/etc. they can.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby AntiM » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:41 am

The conclaves are each limited to 50 people, which includes safety. Conclaves had been "padding" their groups to get more people into the circle, and that practice was halted. As I understand it, that whole chunk of performer tickets has always been held separately from regular and staff tickets, and members are encouraged to have their own tickets if possible. Performer tickets are not free, just reduced price, same as low income I think, which is why if the shin knows you have a ticket they usually won't put you down for a performer one. I may be entirely wrong on that, and this year things may be different. There's not a lot of wiggle room for people to bribe their way into a conclave, and most are so tightly knit that they'd rebel and form their own competing group if "their" spots were being sold out from under them.

I was on fuels for the Utah conclave, but they weren't accepted last year. Lots of competition for that privilege of performing.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:56 pm

There were 50+/- conclaves that put their names in the hat last year for 30 slots.

Conclave tickets are generally the same as low income. However, if you already had a ticket in your name, you did not get one available to you. This year they changed it slightly: if you have a ticket in your name already and are part of a conclave that is accepted, you can get a reimbursement for the price over the conclave ticket.

Would you like to know more?

And... to reiterate: I will happily be the bad guy on what the OP is talking about. Funk those people in the neck.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby moonrise » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:02 pm

OT What is a "shin'?

I'll physically never be able to fire dance, but it interests me.

Is there a link to the info describing the formal terms of Fire Conclaves? Please post if there is. Thanks in advance!
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:08 pm

Shin is the director/communications person for an individual conclave. They report to the conclave council as far as group intent, progress, subbit audition videos.

Helmsman is another term you'll hear. They are the stage manager of the conclave, dealing w/radio com to Crimson on burn night to make sure everything goes when it's supposed to.

Click here for the info you were asking about.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby moonrise » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:15 pm

Thanks CO!

I missed you last year and I really want to meet you this year. I'll seek you out with the help of some mutual freinds. Proably grai...he told me about your hilarious "sparkle pony" impersonation, haha, wish I could've seen it! Maybe get it on film for us (and maybe NOT youtube it, arg, not going there at this point in time...).

Salute!
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:27 pm

Impersonation?
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:34 pm

method acting...

like Jerry Lewis...
"la ayuda del kool es bueno"



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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby moonrise » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:42 pm

Sometimes Jerry slays me, but not always.

ETA: something flew over my head. Did you see it? :? :lol:
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby graidawg » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:13 pm

mdmf007 wrote:Have the fortitude of your convictions dude - otherwise this thread is just a rumor mill. The CO offered to be the bad guy if you cant stomach the difficult conversation.

This thread is so pathetic I want to lock it as being boring and contributing very little, but what the hell - here it is.


i like this thread i have found stuff out.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby playabike » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

[quote="AntiM"]I was on fuels for the Utah conclave, but they weren't accepted last year.[/quote]

Could you translate this as well, thanks.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:43 am

Each individual conclave must audition each year to be part of the overall group in the great circle. There are often more groups auditioning that spaces available. Not everyone is accepted to perform.


Click here to read about fire conclave
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby mshaman » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:25 pm

Anonymice, I have learned the hard way that a friend without integrity isn't a friend. When I realized the value of integrity (to me it's more important than looking good, being liked, or damn near anything else), and that mine was lacking, I had to do something about it: a) change my behavior and b) fire many of my "friends" in favor of those who weren't dirt-bags. You're due for the same.

Silence is the voice of complicity, and by not intervening, you are a part of the problem. I hope you bust them not for our sake, but for your sake.

PS I'm still "changing behavior"--i.e. aspiring to principles that I haven't mastered, lest the post seem self-righteous.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby mshaman » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:55 pm

@Anonymice,
While we're on the subject, anonymity and integrity seem to work against each other.

It's better to be honest than to be liked.

I know I've been so vocal about my disappointment with the board's policy decisions that I've basically made it difficult for myself to get as involved in the BMorg as I am with the regional burn. I'm sure there are people on eplaya who are "high up the ladder" that think I'm a turd. Honesty has a cost. That's okay. It's cheaper than complacency.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:53 pm

AntiM wrote:
Anonymice wrote:You can knock it down if you want. I'm not some whistle-blowing ass who is going to rat someone out. I will not name names even if Crimson Rose herself contacts me. Hence why I am not on my usual ePlaya account. I don't WANT anyone disseminating from my identity who these people might be.

I have my ticket. I am not going in conclave. I am only raising awareness that not everything is uncorruptable. It's important that BMORG understands the extent of how bad this situation has gotten.

Take from this what you will.



There are more conclaves than places in the Great Circle, they ALL must audition, even the big established groups who are quite good. NO conclave is assured a place before the audition videos and applications are submitted. Therefore, selling conclave spots is impossible, if they are, well those paying are stupid, or those selling are scam artists. Or someone who believes this crap is a gullible fool.

Yeah, it would be hard to imagine that the people who work hard enough to get an audition tape that gets the nod would then turn around and sell their tickets, not only giving up their ticket to this year's event, but basically saying good bye to the idea of ever getting in on a conclave ticket again... How much would anyone sell their chance of going to the burn again for?
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:23 am

Plus, as Anti mentioned, no groups have a spot in the great circle yet. They haven't even closed submissions yet. Videos aren't due till July, and announcement of which conclaves are accepted will be a few weeks after that. Anyone 'selling' a spot in their conclave at this point is selling theoretical vaporware: and, anyone doing so is probably also not going to get their group in, since filling spaces with non-performers means you have a less-impressive group AND you are running the risk of being blacklisted.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:30 am

playabike wrote:
AntiM wrote:I was on fuels for the Utah conclave, but they weren't accepted last year.


Could you translate this as well, thanks.


'On fuels' in AntiMs case means she was working in the fuel dump area (fuelmaster is UFC's term I think; we at OFC call them 'dump dogs', as their main job is chase stupid people away.)

Fueling & Safety: just 2 of the jobs in a fire conclave that don't involve spinning, yet are just as important.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby OregonRed » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:01 am

Anonymice, I am with The CO on this one and calling BULLSHIT. I am the Shin for Oregon Fire Conclave, and if you're not willing to blow the whistle on the Shin(s)/Conclaves that are engaging in this behavior, and yet your posting about it online, I am going to call you out for the FUCKING TROLL YOU ARE.

I find your lack of spine both disgusting and disheartening. If you really wanted to put an end to this behavior, you would let the Fire Conclave Council or at least Crimson Rose know who is doing it. At the very, VERY least, you'd take The CO up on his offer to be the bad guy for you (I would happily do it too, as this behavior makes ME look bad and I dislike that intensely), but this sort of mealy-mouthed whining about somebody doing something wrong without any balls to do anything about it, is as morally reprehensible as the behavior you're complaining about. Either have the courage to do the right thing or STFU about it.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:30 am

Random question not meant to detract from the conversation which I agree with OR and CO on:

Why is a "Shin" called a Shin? Kind of an odd title..?
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:32 am

Hebrew for mother fire.

The positions marked in green are non spinning conclave jobs.

SHIN ~ LEADER OF A FIRE GROUP - For every group, there is one person that is the leader and contact with that group, called a SHIN (in Hebrew means Mother Fire). They manage and organize a fire group, set rehearsals, make note of who shows up and who is accountable. The Shin runs their group the way it works for them within their region of the country. Each group displays its own energy, style and level of commitment. Creating its unique, unwritten code of ethics and varied style of expression of fire. The Shin must understand and recognize that acceptance into the Fire Conclave and dancing at the foot of the Man is an honor to receive and a gift to be given. To hold this position, a person must demonstrate the following Aptitude & Competence:
COMMUNICATION - Use email effectively. Submissions of monthly Progress Reports. Clarity and ease of communication between Fire Conclave Council and Shin. Mechanism in place to disseminate information from Fire Conclave Council to members of the group pre-playa and on-playa, such as where to connect with members of your group.
SAFETY - Conscious of Safety and understands the standard protocols at all times.
MANAGE & ORGANIZE - Have the ability to rally a group of free-spirited individuals in a choreographed fire dance. Be patient and lead with a firm but flexible hand. Willing to vouch and be responsible for the actions of all members of the group.
HONOR PROCEDURES - Must be present on the playa until after burn night. Adhere to all guidelines, standards and deadlines related to paperwork, communications, etc. Submit the group roster, choreograph, generate media and other necessary information to gain membership with the Fire Conclave. Understand and communicate the importance of the necessary rules each Fire Conclave member must adhere to. Honor sobriety while performing these duties.
FIRE PERFORMERS - There must be a minimum of 15 fire performers within each group. A fire performer is anyone who dances, moves etc. with a fire tool and creates to the best of their ability. Fire Performers are part of a group that works directly with their Shin and are required to honor sobriety while playing with fire.

FIRE WATCH / SAFETY PERSONNEL ~ This position goes by many names, but simply they watch the fire, making sure that the fire stays on a tool, or where it should be. If performers accidentally lights them selves on fire, Fire Watch are at the ready to put it out quickly with a wet towel or fire retardant material. Fire Watch /Safety Personnel are clear, capable, competent and, are required to honor sobriety while they are performing their duties. Fire Watch / Safety Personnel can sometime also be a performer, BUT while they take on the safety responsibilities they can NOT be a Helmsmen, drummer, photographer or videographer. Each group will have a ratio of one Fire Watch / Safety Personnel to every 5 fire performers.

HELMSMEN ~ Radio communications in the Great Circle before, during and after the fire performance is crucial. Helmsmen are equivalent to a stage manager and receive cues when to start and stop the fire performance. Helmsmen must have a critical eye to observe everything that happens with, around and outside of the performers area and are required to honor sobriety while performing their duties at the Burn. Helmsmen perform ONLY this one task and can NOT perform with fire, play music or act as Fire Watch. Helmsmen MUST attend radio training protocol, and all requisite radio check out paperwork will be competed at that time. This will also require that the radio & equipment will be returned after the Man falls. Each fire group will have one Helmsman.

OPTIONAL

SHIN ASSIST - The Shin Assist is there to assist the Shin with activities, support and carry part of the load. However the Shin is still required to fulfill all duties. It’s important that the Shin, if choosing to employ a Shin Assist introduces their Assist to the Fire Conclave Council.
MUSICIANS/DRUMMERS OR MUSIC - Any kind of music that will help you be creative and will complement the dance. No amplified music that requires power will be allowed within the Great Circle. If your group is in need of drummers, we do create a group called Ambient Drummers and can help your group with ambient drum accompaniment. This is a loose group of drummers that are arranged around the Great Circle in places where there are no drummers.
PHOTOGRAPHERS / VIDEOGRAPHERS - There are particular guidelines and registration deadlines that are related to these positions, not just with the Fire Conclave but with Burning Man, more information can be found at this link: http://www.burningman.com/press/. There will be a limit of ONE photographer AND/OR ONE videographer allowed for a total of two media people.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:40 am

Very interesting. I had no idea that conclave participation/organization was so in-depth.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:51 am

It's a lot of work. That list is just jobs within conclave.

The shin also has to:
1-Communicate intent. Telling the council you are going to apply.
2-Monthly reporting if not more frequent to the council on progress.
3-Herd up to 50 people and get them to rehearse & film.
4-submit an audition video
5-Herd those same 50 flaming cats ON PLAYA and make sure they show up sober.

And it is worth every moment of blood, burns, sweat & tears when 1400 people are lit up around the man with another 40,000 cheering.

Fucking awesome.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

The CO wrote:And it is worth every moment of blood, burns, sweat & tears when 1400 people are lit up around the man with another 40,000 cheering.

Fucking awesome.



No shit. And I can see why Red or others would come unglued at someone trolling such a labor of love.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:59 am

We get touchy about it, yes...
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby pinemom » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:11 am

And I like to add:

That if a person that signs up with/performs with/safeties for/ a fire conclave prior to BM, and "doesnt" show up for their assigned duty on Sat. Night innner circle duty is Black listed Immediately in our conclave!

The only way you are allowed to "call in sick" that night is if you accidentally received 3rd degree burns over 15% of your body or tear the crap out of your petallis tendons and break your meniscus disk of your knee in the week leading up to and you usually sit there watching your conclave perform, crying, wishing you were with your family, not sitting on the sidelines cursing beneath your breath for bad physical luck.But we're still there to support!

But ya, the OP isnt doing anyone a favor by saying I know something you dont know, just more mass hysteria to add to an already molding pot of boiled over beans!
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby The CO » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:16 am

pinemom wrote:just more mass hysteria to add to an already molding pot of boiled over beans!


What a stunning visual...
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby OregonRed » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:17 am

The CO wrote:We get touchy about it, yes...


What can I say? It's my art and my year 'round labor of love. It's a difficult enough thing to get 40 fire artists all on the same page at the same time, then I give them a schedule and responsibilities on top of it (and ride their asses to make sure that they fulfill their responsibilities), plus scheduling, travel time and expenses, and the general worry that comes along with being responsible for 50 people in close proximity to fire, all in exchange for a ticket (monetarily, that works out to $.53 per hour, BTW :shock: ) to an event, that on the biggest night of said event, I do not get to get fucked up and watch the spectacle, because I have to stay sober and be a part of the spectacle. I FUCKING LOVE MY JOB!!!! :D :D :D :D

And loving it is the reason I do it. So, threads like this one make me BEYOND angry. Someone out there is cheapening my contribution to the burn by doing one of two things A) Starting nasty rumors about the Fire Conclave; or B) Selling spots that should be earned by hard work and dedication to a performance gift to BRC.

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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby pinemom » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:20 am

Do not Piss Off Oregon Red! Trust me!
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby Canoe » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:31 pm

OregonRed wrote:
The CO wrote:We get touchy about it, yes...

... threads like this one make me BEYOND angry. Someone out there is cheapening my contribution to the burn by doing one of two things A) Starting nasty rumors about the Fire Conclave; or B) Selling spots that should be earned by hard work and dedication to a performance gift to BRC.

Do keep in mind that, using a simple explanation, where half of the population is above average, the other half is below average. Don't take everything said too hard, when everyone can see which side of the fence it's coming from...
But it is interesting seeing more details of what goes into what we see on-playa.
I've received some PMs that show individuals and camps contributing more in one year than I'll ever be able to contribute in my life.
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Re: Corruption of Conclave

Postby knowmad » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:47 pm

wraith wrote:
Simon of the Playa wrote:yep.



whose sock is trolling for tinfoil?


There are socks that aren't you? I am shocked and appalled.

I know!
For a while I thought I was one of SOP's socks!
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