What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves)

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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby tattoogoddess » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:51 pm

vargaso wrote:Whatever, I'm an asshole. Some very necessary jobs pay shit, and the people doing those jobs should get a break. What galls me is when kids in their 20s with no dependents who are either full-time students or pursuing their art full-time claim to be poor. That's not poor, that's a choice. And this thread was for the purpose of discussing what we think "low income" means, so I would think valid arguments are in order, but oh right, internet message board, must not forget that. Here's a cat picture:



So you are saying I should work a job I hate and be missrible for the rest of my life instead of working one that I love? Yep that is the way to live working a 40 hour a week job that you hate and would rather have shot your self in the head then to be there. That sounds like a great idea!!

I work 2 jobs I love (one that I hate the boss but love what I Do) I followed my "american dream" so that is wrong?

PS it is a ARTS festival with out these shitty "poor artists" BM would sease to be there btw. These people you look down on and have no compassion for are the back bone of Burning Man.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby DrYes » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:46 pm

vargaso wrote: And yes, it's my belief that in general, it's FAR FAR easier to support only yourself and no dependents.


Yep, and it's easier to support yourself without car payments too. Both are choices you make.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Trishntek » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:59 pm

Boy! I step away from this discussion for a few days and suddenly it's this monstrous diatribe of class warfare! Good grief!

Are we not all people? Do we not all have problems? Do we all make choices with consequences? Give your head a shake!

Retrofrolic has a good mixture of people of all incomes and status in life. Each person brings what they can and it all works. It matters not what you do or do not have. It does matter what you do with what you have.

My own philosophy does not involve concern over what other people do or don't do with their resources. What matters most to me is what I do with what I have. That is my responsibility and no one else's. Sharing what I have is a privilege and an honor. But if anyone EXPECTS me to perform or give for their benefit, that is manipulation of the worst kind and not tolerated.

Some individuals create marvelous things out of what seems like nothing while others have everything they need and accomplish little. Attitude is everything. Funds, or the lack thereof have very little to do with going to Burning Man. Resourcefulness, creativity and ambition accomplish way more than money.

We all know people who take the initiative to raise needed funds to attend TTITD and are willing to do what it takes. We also know people who do very little and everything they need seems to fall in their laps. Which one gets the most satisfaction? Which are the most grateful and derive the greatest reward for the BM experience? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question for your own pondering.

This bullshit of class warfare divides us and accomplishes NO GOOD THING.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby KrisMuffin » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:17 pm

On to the actual program...

Did it take anyone else 3+ hours to fill that fu*cker out?! And I was pepared! Ok, not as well as i thought. I didnt know a text pdf could be over 1mb, and I had to resize 2 of my docs on my friends computer thats a MAC. I use PC. I had some college apps that required less info and less anxiety. Lol! Thank goodness my friends love me and made dinner for me with wine! I was ready to take a bat to the computer by the end. I have terrible writing anxiety, especially if I care a lot.

Well the app should at least detour anyone who doesn't really care!

Good Luck to all who applied! Let cheers to it no longer being in our hands!
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby glitter-mouse » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:58 am

i'm with the community on this - regardless of the size of your trustfund, income is income. no W2 or W9 = no income, thus low income. it doesn't matter if my dad pays for BM, i had no income and i can prove it.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby laffingblonde » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:09 pm

Trishntek wrote:Boy! I step away from this discussion for a few days and suddenly it's this monstrous diatribe of class warfare! Good grief!

Are we not all people? Do we not all have problems? Do we all make choices with consequences? Give your head a shake!

Retrofrolic has a good mixture of people of all incomes and status in life. Each person brings what they can and it all works. It matters not what you do or do not have. It does matter what you do with what you have.

Some individuals create marvelous things out of what seems like nothing while others have everything they need and accomplish little. Attitude is everything. Funds, or the lack thereof have very little to do with going to Burning Man. Resourcefulness, creativity and ambition accomplish way more than money.

This bullshit of class warfare divides us and accomplishes NO GOOD THING.


Appreciate this being said. Makes me sad what this devolved into and almost didn't post it in the first place. The point wasn't to compare our specific circumstances, just get some thoughts about what the point of the system is. Didn't end up applying to low income, but managed to get through the server crashes and into STEP, albeit a ways down the list the wind whispered afterward.

After getting arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge I can tell you this isn't about class warfare. It's about people caring about each other and helping all of us succeed. Staying positive since there's never been a ticket in my hand before July and why should this year be any different? Polishing up our art proposal and trying to spread some calming vibes for everyone who's stressing all of this so badly. Good luck to everyone who threw their hat in the low income ring. Hopefully we'll see you on the playa. It's still f'n 6 months away. Love each other and be nice on here. We're all here for the same reason.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby vargaso » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:15 am

tattoogoddess wrote:
vargaso wrote:Whatever, I'm an asshole. Some very necessary jobs pay shit, and the people doing those jobs should get a break. What galls me is when kids in their 20s with no dependents who are either full-time students or pursuing their art full-time claim to be poor. That's not poor, that's a choice. And this thread was for the purpose of discussing what we think "low income" means, so I would think valid arguments are in order, but oh right, internet message board, must not forget that. Here's a cat picture:



So you are saying I should work a job I hate and be missrible for the rest of my life instead of working one that I love? Yep that is the way to live working a 40 hour a week job that you hate and would rather have shot your self in the head then to be there. That sounds like a great idea!!

I work 2 jobs I love (one that I hate the boss but love what I Do) I followed my "american dream" so that is wrong?

PS it is a ARTS festival with out these shitty "poor artists" BM would sease to be there btw. These people you look down on and have no compassion for are the back bone of Burning Man.


I don't look down on anyone for the job they do. Again, this thread was about discussing what we consider low income with regards to the Burning Man low income ticket program. The BMORG looks at the applications and evaluates them based on what they consider "need," I'm assuming. If I was on that committee, I'd have a hard time granting a low-income ticket to able-bodied/minded people with no dependents. That's where my judgement begins and ends, for the reasons I stated in my previous posts. When it comes to living expenses, I'm totally in favor of all kinds of programs from grants to loans to food stamps, etc.

For what it's worth, a lot of the artists out there have full-time jobs aside from their art. Everyone I know who brings art to BM is in that boat, myself included. As for getting a job you might "hate" or be "miserable" at, you'd be very surprised at how you adapt and change as you get older and needs arise. Did I think I'd be staring at a monitor all day typing out code when I was in my early 20s? No way in hell. But I love my job, both the work and what it provides my family. You're a hair stylist, it seems. My wife's best friend is one too. She had purist thoughts at the beginning, but now supports her 3 kids renting a chair at a high-end salon and makes damn good money. Along the way, she worked at more than a few places she hated, building a clientele. So, you know, sorry, I have no sympathy for you when claiming "poor" to get a Burning Man ticket, but I do wish you all the luck in the world at whatever you pursue, honestly.

And I agree, this thread kind of went in a divisive direction, partly form the subject itself and hell, partly from me. I don't spend my days thinking about how to divide us up into socio-economic groups, and agree that it's attitude and creativity that matters, not money. Which is kind of my point? But it got out of hand and I apologize for that.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby starren » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:19 am

The discussion taking place here actually reflects a much broader issue, and problem, than most in the discussion, and the country, probably realize. This is just food for thought.

Here is an excerpt from a recent article in the New York Times that adds perspective and makes some points relevant to the discussion here.

MAGAZINE | February 26, 2012
It's the Economy: Why Are Harvard Graduates in the Mailroom?
By ADAM DAVIDSON
More industries are following Hollywood's lottery system, offering potential wealth in exchange for terrible hours and low pay.

In their book “Freakonomics,” Stephen J. Dubner and Steven D. Levitt explain, among other things, the odd economic behavior that guides many drug dealers. In one gang they described, the typical street-corner guy made less than minimum wage but still worked extremely hard in hopes of some day becoming one of the few wildly rich kingpins. This behavior isn’t isolated to illegal activity. There are a number of professions in which workers are paid, in part, with a figurative lottery ticket. The worker accepts a lower-paying job in exchange for a slim but real chance of a large, future payday.
Deep thoughts this week:

1. Hollywood is the most glamorous lottery-style business in the U.S. economy.

2. It’s hardly the only one.

3. But now the Plan B jobs are evaporating.
It’s the Economy

Adam Davidson translates often confusing and sometimes terrifying economic and financial news.

This more or less explains Hollywood. Yes, the Oscars may be an absurd spectacle of remarkably successful people congratulating themselves for work that barely nudges at the borders of meaningful human achievement. But it’s also a celebration of a form of meritocratic capitalism. I’m not talking about the fortunes lavished on extremely good looking people; no, I mean the economic system that compels lots of young people to work extremely hard for little pay so that it’s possible to lavish fortune on the good-looking people. That’s the spirit of meritocratic capitalism!

Hollywood is, in some ways, the model lottery industry. For most companies in the business, it doesn’t make economic sense to, as Google does, put promising young applicants through a series of tests and then hire only the small number who pass. Instead, it’s cheaper for talent agencies and studios to hire a lot of young workers and run them through a few years of low-paying drudgery. (Actors are another story altogether. Many never get steady jobs in the first place.) This occupational centrifuge allows workers to effectively sort themselves out based on skill and drive. Over time, some will lose their commitment; others will realize that they don’t have the right talent set; others will find that they’re better at something else.

When it’s time to choose who gets the top job or becomes partner, managers subsequently have a lot more information to work with. In the meantime, companies also get the benefit of several years of hard work from determined young people at below-market pay. (Warner Brothers pays its mailroom clerks $25,000 to $30,000, a little more than an apprentice plumber.) While far from perfect, this strategy has done a pretty decent job of pushing those with real promise to the top. Barry Diller and David Geffen each started his career in the William Morris mailroom.

Hollywood is merely the most glamorous industry that puts new entrants — whether they’re in the mailroom, picking up dry cleaning for a studio head or waiting on tables between open-call auditions — through a lottery system. Even glamour-free industries offer economic-lottery systems. Young, ambitious accountants who toil away at a Big Four firm may have modest expectations of glory, but they’ll be millionaires if they make partner. The same goes at law firms, ad agencies and consulting firms. Startups explicitly use a lottery system, known as stock options, to entice young people to work for nothing. Wall Street, however, is a special case. It offers extremely high entry salaries and enormous potential earnings.

Even professions that can’t offer as much in the way of riches operate as a lottery system. Academia, nonprofit groups, book publishers and public-radio production companies also put their new recruits through various forms of low-paid hazing, holding out the promise of, well, more low pay but in a job that provides, for some, something more important than money: satisfaction. In the language of economics, these people are consuming their potential wages in happiness. (Honestly, economists talk this way.)

This system is unfair and arbitrary and often takes advantage of many people who don’t really have a shot at the big prize. But it is far preferable to the parts of our economy where there are no big prizes waiting. That mailroom clerk at Warner Brothers may make less than a post office clerk (maybe even half as much), but the latter has less chance of a significant promotion. Workers in retail sales, clerical settings, low-skill manufacturing and other fields tend to have loose, uncommitted bonds to their industries, and their employers have even looser commitments to them. These jobs don’t offer a bright future precisely because they don’t require a huge amount of skill, and therefore there’s no need to do much merit-sorting. ...

Adam Davidson is the co-founder of NPR’s Planet Money, a podcast, blog and radio series heard on “Morning Edition,” “All Things Considered” and “This American Life.”


The entirety of the article can be found on the New York Times web site.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Dr. Pyro » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:22 am

That's about the most useless post regarding this subject I have ever had inflicted upon me.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Trishntek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:29 am

Sex munths ago, I coutn't evun speel injuneer,,, now I R 1!
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Bounce530 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:41 am

tattoogoddess wrote:
So you are saying I should work a job I hate and be missrible for the rest of my life instead of working one that I love? Yep that is the way to live working a 40 hour a week job that you hate and would rather have shot your self in the head then to be there. That sounds like a great idea!!

I work 2 jobs I love (one that I hate the boss but love what I Do) I followed my "american dream" so that is wrong?



And why is it up to the rest of the people who buy the higher priced tickets (by choice) to pay for you to have a discounted ticket?

It would have been nice to see something like, "I took a week off of my $2.50/hr job, and went to the tax company and waved their sign on the road and made enough to get in on a regular priced ticket." or some such, to leave a LIT for somebody that has fallen on bad times, ie, just laid off, medical bill, etc.

Many people on this people board are quick with the phrase, Do-acracy, make it happen. Yet, I see this as a choice to work a well below minimum wage job, and expect others to pick up your slack. I don't see the RSR here in this case.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby snardy » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:00 am

Bounce530 wrote:And why is it up to the rest of the people who buy the higher priced tickets (by choice) to pay for you to have a discounted ticket?


Because that's one of the social goals of the LIT, as designed by the BMorg. It's basically a redistribution of wealth. However, if you don't like that, you can either take it up with the BMorg or not attend Burning Man at all (if it sufficiently offends your sensibilities of 'fairness').
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby ygmir » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:04 am

snardy wrote:
Bounce530 wrote:And why is it up to the rest of the people who buy the higher priced tickets (by choice) to pay for you to have a discounted ticket?


Because that's one of the social goals of the LIT, as designed by the BMorg. It's basically a redistribution of wealth. However, if you don't like that, you can either take it up with the BMorg or not attend Burning Man at all (if it sufficiently offends your sensibilities of 'fairness').


that's just your POV. I'd tend to agree with Bounce.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby snardy » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:19 am

ygmir wrote:
snardy wrote:
Bounce530 wrote:And why is it up to the rest of the people who buy the higher priced tickets (by choice) to pay for you to have a discounted ticket?


Because that's one of the social goals of the LIT, as designed by the BMorg. It's basically a redistribution of wealth. However, if you don't like that, you can either take it up with the BMorg or not attend Burning Man at all (if it sufficiently offends your sensibilities of 'fairness').


that's just your POV. I'd tend to agree with Bounce.


That's actually not my opinion; I'm merely stating a fact. Otherwise we wouldn't have a LIT program.
It is social engineering; the BMorg has prioritized including low-income people at the expense of maximizing income. And yes, those who pay higher prices are, in effect, subsidizing the LIT participants. If we didn't have the LIT, ticket prices would be lower for those who bought in the upper tiers. However, the BMorg has specified that increasing diversity of participants is a noble social goal.

That said, I don't think anyone is more entitled to an LIT than another person. Whatever the reason, some people make significantly less income than others. I'll let the BMorg judge whether or not someone 'deserves' to go to Burning Man, based upon their circumstances.

Question for the moderators: does the BMorg take into consideration the number of times an individual has received an LIT? Would it say, "Person A has received a LIT for the last 3 years. We have high demand this year, so Person A will not receive an LIT in order to allow Person B to attend. Person A can re-apply next year." Do these types of conversations happen?
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby tattoogoddess » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:43 am

Bounce530 wrote:
tattoogoddess wrote:
So you are saying I should work a job I hate and be missrible for the rest of my life instead of working one that I love? Yep that is the way to live working a 40 hour a week job that you hate and would rather have shot your self in the head then to be there. That sounds like a great idea!!

I work 2 jobs I love (one that I hate the boss but love what I Do) I followed my "american dream" so that is wrong?



And why is it up to the rest of the people who buy the higher priced tickets (by choice) to pay for you to have a discounted ticket?

It would have been nice to see something like, "I took a week off of my $2.50/hr job, and went to the tax company and waved their sign on the road and made enough to get in on a regular priced ticket." or some such, to leave a LIT for somebody that has fallen on bad times, ie, just laid off, medical bill, etc.

Many people on this people board are quick with the phrase, Do-acracy, make it happen. Yet, I see this as a choice to work a well below minimum wage job, and expect others to pick up your slack. I don't see the RSR here in this case.


To be honest When would I be able to do that? Sundays and Mondays are my only days off. Mondays are my doctor days. I go to the salon at 10 am stay there till 6:30 then go work at the pub till 12 or 1 am. My boss at the salon is a witch. Hell leaving at 6:30 is leaving me at about losing my job but I am to valuible to have gone. So she has not fired me yet. There is no way I could take a week off just to go work another job lol. Would your boss let you do that?
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:45 am

Well, it might depend on just how small a town you live in. But you could take a week off without telling her why. I hope.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby tattoogoddess » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:19 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Well, it might depend on just how small a town you live in. But you could take a week off without telling her why. I hope.

25k lol She would know. Seriously my boss is fucking slave worker. She could care less how any of us feel. She is the ideal canidate for tabitha's salon take over. She is all about the money and does not care about us or the salon. It's a nightmare.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby munkycmunkydoo » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:37 pm

lemur wrote:sock garters.

Image


HAh, I just scored a pair of those the other day .
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Lord Of Ruin » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:12 pm

laffingblonde wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:You can do it cheaper than $3k.. geezus christ. For someone that only made $13k last year, you sure are makin' it rain.


sorry, that's for the two of us. two tickets @ $390 plus travel back and forth from the east coast and we're already at $1400 or so. Planning on building another art piece for our camp if we make the trip blah blah blah.

Just trying to decide what the heck we should do.


Good lord, are your priorities out of whack or what? Spending 1/5 your annual income on attending a party? Holy crap...
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby theCryptofishist » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:48 pm

I don't know. One of the long term freedoms of the poor as opposed to the middle class is to be able to "party" (in modern parlance) more often. The middle class gets stuck in this killjoy, must work to succeed mode that, while powerful, is also a real burden on the spirit, maybe even a prison in itself. I don't know what the answer is. Both lifestyles seem flawed to me...
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby vargaso » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:53 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:I don't know. One of the long term freedoms of the poor as opposed to the middle class is to be able to "party" (in modern parlance) more often. The middle class gets stuck in this killjoy, must work to succeed mode that, while powerful, is also a real burden on the spirit, maybe even a prison in itself. I don't know what the answer is. Both lifestyles seem flawed to me...


Yes. Historically, it's the rich and poor who cut loose, the middle class have been programmed to believe cutting loose is unproductive. I have no problem with someone spending 1/5 of their yearly income on something like Burning Man. If they have no dependents, I have no compunction to want to help subsidize it, but if they want to get there, go for it!
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Trishntek » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:01 pm

You can also consider location. $1000 per month apartment can be a one room studio or a three bedroom, 2 bath with storage depending on where you live. Also, some folks can walk or take a bus/train to work and others drive over 100 miles per day. Some have families and others are single. I know some who live in shacks for $250 a month and are seemingly happy. I know some who are millionaires living on the beach and are seemingly miserable most of the time.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE!
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby International Incident » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:27 pm

Trishntek wrote:You can also consider location. $1000 per month apartment can be a one room studio or a three bedroom, 2 bath with storage depending on where you live. Also, some folks can walk or take a bus/train to work and others drive over 100 miles per day. Some have families and others are single. I know some who live in shacks for $250 a month and are seemingly happy. I know some who are millionaires living on the beach and are seemingly miserable most of the time.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE!


Damn straight TnT.

A lot of what is poor and what is rich (or doing OK) in the USA seems to be about geography. And sadly it seems that many people who are stuck in low paid jobs don't have the resources (financial) to up and move to an area with better paying jobs. And man that sucks, and goes against the way the flow of wages and capital should work in a well functioning capitalist economy.

So to tell a person who has a crappy wage and a crappy job to get a better job doesn't really help if there is no better paying opportunities in the area. If you have a crappy wage then saving up to be able to move house, get a new apartment, and pay the first months rent up front etc etc, is pretty damn difficult, you are already living paycheck to paycheck. And sadly the employers know that. They know they have the low paid trapped and they can exploit them.

I'll never really understand the American class system.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Trishntek » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:13 pm

The "Class System" in the United States is manufactured by politicians attempting to marginalize certain populations for the sake of pandering. Truth be told, rags to riches stories are innumerable in our society. Bill Gates is a great example. Harry Truman ran a clothing store. Hell, George Washington was a whiskey distiller. Greatness comes from nothing quite frequently in the U.S. It's the politicians who try to ingratiate the less fortunate for their own gain.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby wandergirl » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:32 pm

wow, I really shouldn't have skimmed this thread.

according to some people here, the low-income program shouldn't even exist.
because if you're eligible -- what are you thinking, spending your money on a party?? you should be sewing bootstraps by hand, you shortsighted welfare queen!!
I mean, jesus, people. judgmental, much?
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby laffingblonde » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:20 pm

Lord Of Ruin wrote:
laffingblonde wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:You can do it cheaper than $3k.. geezus christ. For someone that only made $13k last year, you sure are makin' it rain.


sorry, that's for the two of us. two tickets @ $390 plus travel back and forth from the east coast and we're already at $1400 or so. Planning on building another art piece for our camp if we make the trip blah blah blah.

Just trying to decide what the heck we should do.


Good lord, are your priorities out of whack or what? Spending 1/5 your annual income on attending a party? Holy crap...


Enh, we just manage to make ends meet at a level that most find appalling. What else should I spend my paper on? A retirement account that disappears in a ponzi scheme? Burning Man isn't a party to us, it's a lot more. We live just fine the rest of the year with a lack of material possessions most Americans will never understand. Didn't always live at this income level either, the collapse of the education system and the disappearance of opportunities for teachers has just hit me rather hard. What the hell was I thinking going to school to educate children? How the heck could I not foresee that economic excess would lead to the gutting of schools? I should've studied business and joined a system that's bankrupting America for profit and throwing families out of homes like the banker I spoke with last year who told me about the terrible things he's doing in Asia to allow him to live a lavish lifestyle. He's got it right and I'm just a fool. We're still working to move back upwards. 2011 was a rough year. Everything will work out the way it's supposed to in the end.

It's unfortunate this is turning into an upper class thing. It really shouldn't be. Hopefully the burn will be a sea of rvs and trustafarians within a few more years and the rest of us can be left in the gutter where we're supposed to be working for a minimum wage that politicians are considering abolishing. What should my priorities be? A ring for a woman, a job I hate and a house that ties me to the same crappy neighbors for the rest of eternity before the mortgage is foreclosed next time I lose my job? I'm young, intelligent and hard working. If you feel like handing out some employment opportunity let me know. We're more than willing to relocate. Otherwise keep your silly capitalist priorities to yourself please. We'll spread smiles in the desert.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby laffingblonde » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:05 pm

Lord Of Ruin wrote:Good lord, are your priorities out of whack or what? Spending 1/5 your annual income on attending a party? Holy crap...


Also found out some friends are going to make the trip with us if we manage tickets. Defrayed costs quite a bit. Is spending 1/12 of my income too much? Could really use some guidance on where my priorities should be from the eplaya font of wisdom.

Last reply I'm going to waste on this topic. The whole thread has gotten so far away from its intended purpose. Oh well, what else was to be expected in cyberwaste. Sorry for opening this can of worms.

ps ~ seriously if anyone on the west coast has a decent job for a burner let me know. Will get you my resume.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby tattoogoddess » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:45 pm

melaniejane wrote:
Damn straight TnT.

A lot of what is poor and what is rich (or doing OK) in the USA seems to be about geography. And sadly it seems that many people who are stuck in low paid jobs don't have the resources (financial) to up and move to an area with better paying jobs. And man that sucks, and goes against the way the flow of wages and capital should work in a well functioning capitalist economy.

So to tell a person who has a crappy wage and a crappy job to get a better job doesn't really help if there is no better paying opportunities in the area. If you have a crappy wage then saving up to be able to move house, get a new apartment, and pay the first months rent up front etc etc, is pretty damn difficult, you are already living paycheck to paycheck. And sadly the employers know that. They know they have the low paid trapped and they can exploit them.

I'll never really understand the American class system.



Well said though. I have a job in NYC at a VERY well known salon waiting for me... but I can't afford to move or live there. They pay $7.50 a hour for 2 years. So I would have to work 80 hours a week to even make ends meet. So for now I am here in Iowa doing what I love in a shitty paying salon.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:40 am

laffingblonde wrote:The whole thread has gotten so far away from its intended purpose.

It's called thread drift and if you're interesting in stopping I suggest you talk to Cnut.
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Re: What constitutes "low income"? (talk amongst yourselves

Postby Galaxo Magic » Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:06 pm

KrisMuffin wrote:How does 13k not qualify for low income?! Im also an East Coaster and that type of income in Boston is well below poverty level. I doubt/hope that there's not a hard number, and each case is reviewed by a person (I know, I alread emailed and asked about the program.)

At what point Is it just irresponsible for you to go? If you're spending 1/4 or more of your income to go and/or not paying your light bill , should you? I read a comment about a guy saying he didn't pay his cell phone bill so he could go in the lottery, but didn't get a ticket so hes applying for a LI tix. Why should that behavior be rewarded?

I'm applying becausse in my situation the ticket price does make or break my ability to be there, and I have other life shit i wont get onto going on thats affecting my income which isn't a lot. Not to mention the 1000's of dollars i owe the gov beacuse i went grad school and the fact that I live in one of the most exspensive cities in the world. I work 3+ jobs just to stay afloat.

But at the same time I do see what others said about the programs real need to exist. I'm so happy it does as I know personally know people it has helped, but It is a vacation. This is why i think maybe a volunteering requirement should be implemented.

KrisMuffin, to me you are not low-income, luckily I won't be making the decision on you. Go for it. I had to apply for one in 2009. I got creative, sent pictures of costumes from past years, camps I had helped work with and the project my camp was working on in 2009 (taking our band to BRC). I haven't made over $4k in a year since 2006. However, I live less than 300 miles from BRC, so I can see that the BMorg could factor your long journey and expense of living in Boston in on your request. It really helps to have friends, ones that can give you a place to camp when you arrive.

Um, how can you work 3+ jobs and only make $13k? If you work 40/hrs/wk at minimum wage you'd make over $15k. Just asking.
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