New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 2012

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Gravybrain » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:50 pm

If you are a Birgin and you are here on e-playa actively discussing the event, preperation, culture, etc.... you are probably going to be fine no matter what and have an awesome time, welcome. To the members of Ifeltathigh or whatever your frat is.....

Don't be a darkwad!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Dr Helix » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:13 pm

The CO wrote:
Colonel Monk wrote:don't forget they started the ticket selling process this year with elitism - 3000 tickets for $420 each, highest priced tickets yet.


They've sold presale tickets for a few years before this.


It's funny that the term "elitism" is used here in terms of the pre-sale. I got that a lot when I told some of my fellow campers that I had put in for the pre-sale even though the difference between those tickets and the high tier was only $30.00. And when I did get lucky and hit the pre-sale lottery, their reaction was that I had gottern an "expensive" ticket and that they would all save money by getting theirs in the lottery. Well the lottery came and went and not of these people hit. "We'll get 'em in the open sale" they said, knowing full well that the only price for those tickets would be $390.00. Well we all know how the open sale ended. NOW, they call and want to know if I have any to sell. When I revealed to another burner that I had a ticket he snapped off a "no need to gloat about it!" Huh? And because I got a presale ticket I'm part of the "elite?" Ahhh hell.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Colonel Monk » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:26 pm

Dr Helix wrote:
The CO wrote:
Colonel Monk wrote:don't forget they started the ticket selling process this year with elitism - 3000 tickets for $420 each, highest priced tickets yet.


They've sold presale tickets for a few years before this.


It's funny that the term "elitism" is used here in terms of the pre-sale. I got that a lot when I told some of my fellow campers that I had put in for the pre-sale even though the difference between those tickets and the high tier was only $30.00. And when I did get lucky and hit the pre-sale lottery, their reaction was that I had gottern an "expensive" ticket and that they would all save money by getting theirs in the lottery. Well the lottery came and went and not of these people hit. "We'll get 'em in the open sale" they said, knowing full well that the only price for those tickets would be $390.00. Well we all know how the open sale ended. NOW, they call and want to know if I have any to sell. When I revealed to another burner that I had a ticket he snapped off a "no need to gloat about it!" Huh? And because I got a presale ticket I'm part of the "elite?" Ahhh hell.


Well, I can't and won't promise you that I'm being rational.....

I can't blame you - you were self-reliant enough to spend $30 bucks to secure your ticket.

For some reason, I was not worried enough about the lottery, who the fuck could have seen "tripled" demand coming?

So don't pick the point too much - point for me, is that the presale, the tiers and the fact that the higher dollar tickets were "more available", and now they've given all the safety net to select burners (including virgins who just happen to be part of a theme camp) - the borg has pretty much removed all the "fairness" from this years ticketing.

Go forth and burn, I'll get to BRC if it kills me.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby waynerd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Colonel Monk wrote:Wnerd, stop taking this personally. We KNOW you're gonna rock, but when you finally experience a week at burning man you'll know what we are talking about - especially if the playa conditions are difficult. You'll see the 7,000 idiots who show up Thursday night and leave Sunday morning, and then you'll realize why we feel their ticket is better off in our pocket.

Chill, and keep prepping, we are happy to have you - you just have to figure out when to include yourself in "idiot gaper virgin" or not. We aren't putting you in there, YOU are! :lol:


Colonel,
Once you get to know me you'll realize I don't take a whole lot personally. I realize you're generalizing, I get it, and as far as the infants, well that's just my sarcastic side coming out. No disrespect at all. If anything it's setting myself up to look like a complete idiot when I forget something important like a tent. (hopefully kidding)

I'm looking at Burning man not only as an experience but as a challenge, just like driving backroads across Canada and living out of a SUV for 4 months through winter, from coast to coast was. The following year I wandered around the US Southwest for 4 months, granted water, truckstop showers and a decent meal weren't far away.

Burning Man for me is a chance to step it up for a week. Hell, I'd be into it even if the event was a month long. So yeah, I'm spending time learning, reading about things I may not have thought about on my own and hopefully will be as prepared as possible, like all virgins should be. At this point I'm not sure about joining a camp, I may decide to just wing it on my own, I'm still open to anything that will add to the experience at this point and have no problem contributing where I can.

So anyway, no hard feelings here, no disrespect to the veterans at all. Just try not to lump all us virgins into the same pile.

Now, where are the free drinks and boobies??!! ;)
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby vargaso » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:45 pm

just like driving backroads across Canada and living out of a SUV for 4 months through winter,


I can guarantee that is far tougher than a week at Burning Man. You have zero to worry about. Many of us like to exaggerate how "hard" our little camping trip is. Truth is, if you like camping in general, it's ain't that hard.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby DrYes » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:47 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
DrYes wrote:
Poor analogy. Relationships are built between people, and time invested counts towards building that relationship. Showing up at Burning Man every year does not, in and of itself, add any value to the event.


Well, you are right. Time invested counts toward building that relationship. By your own words, showing up does not add value. My camp has been working for over a year to get to this point, and we've been an LNT camp every year we've attended. This will be our fourth year as a group and we've all volunteered at other camps, taken on extra responsibilities on and off playa, but, whatever.



Oh, I hear you. Our camp, which has been together over 10 years, has fallen apart and won't be on the playa this year. Bums me out, as I only started camping with them last year.

Time invested only counts if you're one of the few thousand that didn't game the system. 43,000 others got tickets regardless of whether they invested anything or not. All it takes is a Visa card. No matter what, and in your words, showing up does, in and of itself, add any value to the community or traditions we've all helped create and tried to sustain.


I didn't game the system and also didn't get a ticket, and am assuming there's no way the STEP program is going to provide, particularly as I'm not going without my soon-to-be-wife and we only registered once. It sucks, but some people that want to go won't be able to go. I can't really fault the system just because I'm in the group that probably won't get to go (ugh, that's the first time I've admitted to myself that I probably won't get to go this year).

You know, for whatever it's worth too, I don't think that being a birgin and contributing to the event are implicitly opposing ideas. There seems to be this idea that birgins have to be wide-eyed does wandering around, nevermind what other things they've done in their lives. Birgins aren't idiots and they're not children. My first year, most of my campmates only discovered I wasn't a veteran after we got back from the burn. I contributed plenty to the camp (a minor sound camp) and the event itself. I'm sure a lot of birgins do too.

And heck, my single favorite encounter on the playa last year was coming back from Opulent's Wed night white party in the wee hours, my girlfriend and I both sparklepony'd to the hilt, and started talking to a young (maybe 19?) birgin who had JUST arrived and hadn't even made it to the esplanade yet. Ok, so he was actually a bit doe-eyed, but considering he JUST got there, I won't blame him. I remember he was wearing a suit. He was great to talk to and he made me feel really good about Burning Man in general, as seeing it through his eyes was even better than through mine (and it's damn good through mine). Never saw him again, but seriously, my favorite human encounter last year.

To be fair, I guess that's also a point in favor of your idea that just showing up is contributing (minus being an odd hermit who never interacts with anyone else, perhaps).

DrYes wrote: Just being a veteran is of no value to everyone else,


LOL! Let's agree not to have this conversation at Arlington Cemetery.


Totally. I wonder what they'd do to a shirtcocker there.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Galaxo Magic » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:05 pm

5280MeV wrote:
Galaxo Magic wrote:I don't know what this implies and it is a very small sample. My experience in 11-years of going is that a % of birgens (maybe 40-50%) end up being great burners, the other 50-60% end up being yahoo dumbasses. On the other hand, all the veteran burners in our camp (100%) are great burners, hard working, participants. What does it mean? I have no fracking idea.....but makes me feel like veterans have the edge on birgens. JMHO


Ok, so from what I know of you and your camp, you bring a giant mobile pink elephant with a party balcony (which I want to ride on!) and you keep the music at a level to respect your neighbors and the conversations of your riders as you drive through the city.

I'm just not sure that your camp is a representative sample of the average veteran burner camp.

I grant you that. In 2008 I brought 4 Birgens and they were uber-prepared! Our camp rocked. Yes, we don't blast loud music, some years we don't have music, you don't need it, it is every where around you anyways.

That is to say, camps of veteran burners who provide wonderful elephant vehicles are - on average - "better than the average virgin burner"

We worked hard for four years to improve our camp and presentation. It is an on-going process.

My one data point is that I definitely have a massive edge on me one year ago. I pretty much spent 99% of my time just wandering around trying to be self-reliant in the desert, meeting people, and sharing what little I had brought beyond what I needed. Now I kinda have a plan, I am working on making stuff, figuring out a volunteering strategy, getting more involved.
Awesome

But here is another experience:

When I was a teacher, it was pretty much a given that first-year (maybe I shouldn't use the word virgin for this?) teachers were kind of a mess. Granted, many do a decent job, but the second year is a world of difference. This is certainly how it was for me. Although I got good feedback, and managed to get the students through some rigorous math courses with a high success rate, my classroom management was a total embarrassment in retrospect. So veteran teachers definitely have the edge.

However, the standard in education for pay scale and everything else is just how many rings there are around the tree - at most schools at least. Once you get into a school, it is damn near impossible to get fired for general incompetence. Schools end up with piles of deadwood that just soak up salary raises and divert resources from young and enthusiastic teachers.


Also, isn't the point of all this - at least on some basic level - to go out and have a good time for a week? Is this discussion really happening?

Certainly, deadwood can happen (hey, I am getting old). ha . This is a good argument. There is a learning curve and a curve of losing interest. What is the optimal number of times to be a Burner? 0 years? 3 years? 6 years? 10 years? No good answer. My first year (2001) was awesome. I was fully contributing by 2003 with a mini-MV. In 11 years I have reinvented myself 3 times. If I didn't I would have been a dumbass veteran (which I was in 2007). Bringing the 4 Birgens in 2008 reinvigorated me.

Change is good and I hope that many Birgens have an awesome time and carry on this fine event! My burns are numbered. This will be 12, not sure I can reinvent myself any more at my age.....
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby vargaso » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:09 pm

DrYes wrote:And heck, my single favorite encounter on the playa last year was coming back from Opulent's Wed night white party in the wee hours, my girlfriend and I both sparklepony'd to the hilt, and started talking to a young (maybe 19?) birgin who had JUST arrived and hadn't even made it to the esplanade yet. Ok, so he was actually a bit doe-eyed, but considering he JUST got there, I won't blame him. I remember he was wearing a suit. He was great to talk to and he made me feel really good about Burning Man in general, as seeing it through his eyes was even better than through mine (and it's damn good through mine). Never saw him again, but seriously, my favorite human encounter last year.


Yes and yes. I LOVE running into burgins and listening to them gush and awe and be so damn happy and overwhelmed and appreciative. My favorite encounter from 2011 was also with a burgin, we were having a little dance party at camp, the sound system was going, I was playing my drumkit, and bunch of others were banging on various percussion, and a couple young dudes (early 20s) wandered in just wide-eyed (from wonder and drugs, sure, but you know...), and one of them steps up to the mic (oh yes, we have a mic) and starts rapping in Swedish. Ha! And he was GOOD! And afterwards, we all hugged, and of course he spoke perfect English, and he asked a million questions and couldn't believe how cool our camp was (and we're a relatively small camp), and we downed some shots and the went on their way. So much fun! And couldn't have happened with a veteran.

So, yeah, burgins, gotta love 'em.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Galaxo Magic » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:12 pm

Gravybrain wrote:If you are a Birgin and you are here on e-playa actively discussing the event, preperation, culture, etc.... you are probably going to be fine no matter what and have an awesome time, welcome. To the members of Ifeltathigh or whatever your frat is.....don't be a darkwad.

I was going to post that! Birgens that are on ePlaya are way ahead of the curve. Question, what % of Birgens will read the Survival Guide? What % of Birgens will come to ePlaya and learn? Probably not enough.

There is no replacement for experience. So Birgens, you got some experience in your future! Bring it!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Colonel Monk » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:16 pm

Galaxo Magic wrote:
Gravybrain wrote:If you are a Birgin and you are here on e-playa actively discussing the event, preperation, culture, etc.... you are probably going to be fine no matter what and have an awesome time, welcome. To the members of Ifeltathigh or whatever your frat is.....don't be a darkwad.

I was going to post that! Birgens that are on ePlaya are way ahead of the curve. Question, what % of Birgens will read the Survival Guide? What % of Birgens will come to ePlaya and learn? Probably not enough.

There is no replacement for experience. So Birgens, you got some experience in your future! Bring it!


Yes, I echo that sentiment. Anyone here thirsty for knowledge this far in advance is the antithesis of "doin' it wrong"!

That's why I've been trying to explain, that I'm not against their "brand" of newb - not at all!

out
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:16 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
BBadger wrote:What makes a veteran any more worthy than a burgin? The fact that they went there before is hardly a qualification. It better not carry much weight in the ticket distribution--that would be unfairly treating (favoring) veteran burners.


What makes a wife any more worthy than mistress? Sweat equity and time invested, for starters.


I'd call that a flawed analogy, but it is actually a very accurate one, but only framed in only one light.

What if the spouse is just a deadbeat along for the ride? If the spouse is the reason a mistress was taken on?

There are good reasons that 50% of marriages end in divorce. Obviously the investment isn't always qualified.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Shevarash » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:24 pm

If i bring this, will i be welcomed as a "good burgin"? (c'mon, you know you dont want to stumble all the way to those portapotties..;))
Image

I do understand the sense of entitlement some of the veteran* burners seem to have though; you laid out the track for us new ones, helped giving the BM soul it has now, invested a lot to make home home. Seeing droves of peeps coming over who throw most of the 10 principles overboard and only are there to have one mean drugsexanythinggoesfreeboozeflipoutpartaaay, must feel like someone slapping your baby. As veteran* burner i'd be bloody pissed to lose my ticket over such person too. I know good peeps will be welcomed by the good peeps overthere...but im just rehashing, just wanted to put a heart under your belts...
* not just a mooping asshole who has been there a couple of years already.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:34 pm

aidenus wrote:I have to agree with Zaphod on this one. Listen, generalizations are ALWAYS going to be well, general. The assumption here is that there is a higher chance that a dumb tourist virgins will OD on some shitty drugs or get drunk and free fall 25 feet to their death of a structure and ruin the event for everyone, than say, a veteran.


You want to generalize? Try thinking a little more general, and not prequalifying the people you're comparing such as "dumb tourist virgins." Quite frankly I'd rather not have "dumb tourist veterans" either.

Really, I don't have any faith that veterans are really any smarter or better than virgins, or that I'd feel I'd want to be around the former rather than the latter. I have seen no evidence that would sway me either way. The vets and burgins I met last year were pretty equal in terms of their ability to handle themselves.

There are some factors that I believe correlates with an improved population of attendees. For example, I'd claim that how early in the week a person arrives highly correlates with the quality of the attendee.

I'd also say that feeling compelled to state how many years one has attended BM also highly correlates with a person being an asshole.

I don't want "vets" who think that being a "vet" entitles them to anything. You want to argue that you bring more to the playa because you have the experience and capability to do so? That is a compelling argument. Simply being around longer? That is not. In fact, that is a fundamentally stupid metric, the kind of thing that goes on in places like the US Post Office.

Shevs wrote:If i bring this, will i be welcomed as a "good burgin"? (c'mon, you know you dont want to stumble all the way to those portapotties..;))


You'll be opening up a huge can (or pants) of worms with that!

Oh yeah, I really enjoy your avatar.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Shevarash » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:55 pm

Thanks BBadger!
Oops, i was just posting the urinal for a laugh; nothing too crazy for Burning Man eehh?! :D (i'd actually like the idea, but no way i could ever dispose it properly, coming over with a 2-person tent and a rented Panda car... plus, the smells in the blazing heat *gag*)
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby mshaman » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:02 pm

@Piehole, @Waynerd, if you dudes are representative of the incoming crew, I'm happy. You're both welcome to hang out in the Lustrous In-Dust-rious camp whenever you want, if you want. 7:30 & J, We've got margaritas waiting at sunset and bacon waiting at breakfast.

My concern is around the 4 ravers who show up with a couple of cases of beer and a can of Pringles, hoping to sell their acid for $100/hit to what must surely be a captive market. They don't have room in their ricered-out Honda for a tent because of the subwoofer in the back. It was a nice car a year ago when mommy and daddy bought it for them, but now it's completely worked over. One of my camp-mates witnessed this at Alchemy in Georgia... a commercial event where it grew from 900 to 2700 in one year... as he relates it, it was a rave, not a burn, and no one had ever heard of Leave No Trace... the median age was about 20 and everyone was trying to steal his stuff. He had to lock EVERYTHING to keep people from rifling through it looking for food, drugs, or valuables. People would actually walk into his tent while he was there and start opening coolers, boxes, whatever. These folks are not the virgins here on the board, they are the "children of entitlement" from a party-school who want nothing but to roll and fuck. Don't get me wrong, I like both activities myself, but there is an element of responsibility that they miss. At Alchemy it showed up in the place looking like a back-alley in New Delhi, trash and wanton destruction everywhere.

The above scenario is one I'd like to avoid at the big burn. The burgins on this board actually give a fuck, which is why they're here. They are not the problem, they are the solution.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Canoe » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:10 pm

[quote="Gravybrain"]If you are a Birgin and you are here on e-playa actively discussing the event, preperation, culture, etc.... you are probably going to be fine no matter what and have an awesome time, welcome. /quote]
+1000
-1
And have read the Survival Guide and recommended materials.

It's the ones that fly/drive in and arrive on-playa with an uninformed selection of equipment without understanding what's required or what they'll be facing in the environment of the playa that we're worried about. 'Cause we've ended up helping them in one form or another. We see the uninformed, mis-equipped and improperly provisioned all the time. For 2012 they'll be more of them needing help, and fewer return Burners to provide guidance or assistance before it reaches the point where it requires official resources. If you know a Virgin who hasn't found the Official Survival Guide yet, point it and ePlaya out to them. Please? Hopefully before they spend any money on equipment or supplies. It will help everybody.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby waynerd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:19 pm

mshaman wrote:@Piehole, @Waynerd, if you dudes are representative of the incoming crew, I'm happy. You're both welcome to hang out in the Lustrous In-Dust-rious camp whenever you want, if you want. 7:30 & J, We've got margaritas waiting at sunset and bacon waiting at breakfast.

My concern is around the 4 ravers who show up with a couple of cases of beer and a can of Pringles, hoping to sell their acid for $100/hit to what must surely be a captive market. They don't have room in their ricered-out Honda for a tent because of the subwoofer in the back. It was a nice car a year ago when mommy and daddy bought it for them, but now it's completely worked over. One of my camp-mates witnessed this at Alchemy in Georgia... a commercial event where it grew from 900 to 2700 in one year... as he relates it, it was a rave, not a burn, and no one had ever heard of Leave No Trace... the median age was about 20 and everyone was trying to steal his stuff. He had to lock EVERYTHING to keep people from rifling through it looking for food, drugs, or valuables. People would actually walk into his tent while he was there and start opening coolers, boxes, whatever. These folks are not the virgins here on the board, they are the "children of entitlement" from a party-school who want nothing but to roll and fuck. Don't get me wrong, I like both activities myself, but there is an element of responsibility that they miss. At Alchemy it showed up in the place looking like a back-alley in New Delhi, trash and wanton destruction everywhere.

The above scenario is one I'd like to avoid at the big burn. The burgins on this board actually give a fuck, which is why they're here. They are not the problem, they are the solution.


Thanks Mshaman. Aside from learning and getting comfortable enough to ask stupid questions I figured that participating on eplaya would be a good way to "pre-meet" some burners. Since I'm flying solo it's a really cool feeling to have a few of you invite me to your camps already. I've also been invited to visit Kamp Krusty as well. It feels great ,so thanks.

And here's an aforementioned stupid question as well. How early is too early to show up, set up and help out? I have "the day job" but have taken the Friday 24th off. This means I'll be leaving for BM2012 right from work on Thursday night. I'll be excited and since I can drive long stretches I was wondering how early I can come through those gates?
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Colonel Monk » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:39 pm

waynerd wrote:
mshaman wrote:@Piehole, @Waynerd, if you dudes are representative of the incoming crew, I'm happy. You're both welcome to hang out in the Lustrous In-Dust-rious camp whenever you want, if you want. 7:30 & J, We've got margaritas waiting at sunset and bacon waiting at breakfast.

My concern is around the 4 ravers who show up with a couple of cases of beer and a can of Pringles, hoping to sell their acid for $100/hit to what must surely be a captive market. They don't have room in their ricered-out Honda for a tent because of the subwoofer in the back. It was a nice car a year ago when mommy and daddy bought it for them, but now it's completely worked over. One of my camp-mates witnessed this at Alchemy in Georgia... a commercial event where it grew from 900 to 2700 in one year... as he relates it, it was a rave, not a burn, and no one had ever heard of Leave No Trace... the median age was about 20 and everyone was trying to steal his stuff. He had to lock EVERYTHING to keep people from rifling through it looking for food, drugs, or valuables. People would actually walk into his tent while he was there and start opening coolers, boxes, whatever. These folks are not the virgins here on the board, they are the "children of entitlement" from a party-school who want nothing but to roll and fuck. Don't get me wrong, I like both activities myself, but there is an element of responsibility that they miss. At Alchemy it showed up in the place looking like a back-alley in New Delhi, trash and wanton destruction everywhere.

The above scenario is one I'd like to avoid at the big burn. The burgins on this board actually give a fuck, which is why they're here. They are not the problem, they are the solution.


Thanks Mshaman. Aside from learning and getting comfortable enough to ask stupid questions I figured that participating on eplaya would be a good way to "pre-meet" some burners. Since I'm flying solo it's a really cool feeling to have a few of you invite me to your camps already. I've also been invited to visit Kamp Krusty as well. It feels great ,so thanks.

And here's an aforementioned stupid question as well. How early is too early to show up, set up and help out? I have "the day job" but have taken the Friday 24th off. This means I'll be leaving for BM2012 right from work on Thursday night. I'll be excited and since I can drive long stretches I was wondering how early I can come through those gates?


Don't come near Gerlach before dark on Sunday. Though they have been playing with the gate time the past two years, if they say 12:01 on Monday then that's it. Gerlach is small and affected by the loitering. If you try to line up at the gate, some have been banished to D-Lot where they keep you till everyone else in the initial surge has entered the city.

If they do decided to publish the earlier time, then that is the time to line up - just suffice it to say, if you don't have an early entry pass don't come around until it's time to rock.

Flying solo to Bman is awesome. Many people here are worried about not being able to come with their friends - people are super friendly, sometimes it's even better to be with people you don't know because then nobody's watching and you can sorta let the city's conciousness take over...

CM
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Theres Always One » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:03 pm

vargaso wrote:
DrYes wrote:And heck, my single favorite encounter on the playa last year was coming back from Opulent's Wed night white party in the wee hours, my girlfriend and I both sparklepony'd to the hilt, and started talking to a young (maybe 19?) birgin who had JUST arrived and hadn't even made it to the esplanade yet. Ok, so he was actually a bit doe-eyed, but considering he JUST got there, I won't blame him. I remember he was wearing a suit. He was great to talk to and he made me feel really good about Burning Man in general, as seeing it through his eyes was even better than through mine (and it's damn good through mine). Never saw him again, but seriously, my favorite human encounter last year.


Yes and yes. I LOVE running into burgins and listening to them gush and awe and be so damn happy and overwhelmed and appreciative. My favorite encounter from 2011 was also with a burgin, we were having a little dance party at camp, the sound system was going, I was playing my drumkit, and bunch of others were banging on various percussion, and a couple young dudes (early 20s) wandered in just wide-eyed (from wonder and drugs, sure, but you know...), and one of them steps up to the mic (oh yes, we have a mic) and starts rapping in Swedish. Ha! And he was GOOD! And afterwards, we all hugged, and of course he spoke perfect English, and he asked a million questions and couldn't believe how cool our camp was (and we're a relatively small camp), and we downed some shots and the went on their way. So much fun! And couldn't have happened with a veteran.

So, yeah, burgins, gotta love 'em.


It's really unfortunate that things like this will be sacrificed so that groups like roots society can bring more dubstep to the playa.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby hotmess » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:18 pm

Theres Always One wrote:It's really unfortunate that things like this will be sacrificed so that groups like roots society can bring more dubstep to the playa.


I couldn't agree with you more.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby socks » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:49 pm

My question is a simple one.When we took the survey it said it would not be attached to the ticket request.So how in hell do they know how many newbies got tickets?
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby mrchiff » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:09 pm

hotmess wrote:
Theres Always One wrote:It's really unfortunate that things like this will be sacrificed so that groups like roots society can bring more dubstep to the playa.


I couldn't agree with you more.


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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby socks » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:49 pm

They sold me on this idea we were building a community once a year for a week,Nowhere else on earth can you find such a thing.I believed.That was floating world.This was going to be my 10 burn and my still be.But no thanks to BM.org.They fucked this up but their goals were met.The got the sales of 40,000 tickets in one day.Now that's a pay day going into a interest bearing account.Do they care what damage they did to the community?But i judge action much more than words.With the march sale called off to give the tickets to the "special people" of burning man just is not right.Then BM.org dealt out more pain to the burner community with the 1 ticket rule on Step.Who in hell is thinking this shit up.You start off splitting the community and now you are going after families too.

The burn this year will be different.I am sure of that.Just like New Orleans after Katrina the soul of the city has changed without the same people.It was the secret sauce.A lot of burner's who have pulled this wagon for years will not be going because of this.Bm.org is more worried about the newbies than the people that brought them to this point.That is the sad part.If i sound bitter and angry its because i am.I hope all have a good time but a little part of me is wishing for 65 mile winds and white outs for 5 days just for Karma.I hope to see you all on the playa
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby International Incident » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:57 pm

socks wrote:
Just like New Orleans after Katrina the soul of the city has changed without the same people.


So because a few (generally) middle class people can't do what they want to for a week, you equate this with the mass death and destruction caused by Katrina and the impact the monumental stuff up in rehousing and rebuilding New Orleans.

Nope. Not the same thing. We are not talking about a disaster, or a human tragedy. New Orleans is rebuilding. BM is rebuilding.

and... go grab yourself a can of harden the fuck up and drink it down.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby asaxon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:26 pm

Several points - if some have already been hashed out please accept my apology :-)

I'm very happy to see how the BMOrg has understood that they need to involve and inform the community, even to the level of real time updates and questions - this will go a long way towards solving the issues. We're on the right track now, even if there's a lot of ground to cover.

I think the issue with virgins is not (only) about surviving in the desert, having skill, or contributing, but more about having enough people who can orient newcomers into the "BM story / feel". Knowing the sense of "home", and being able to "show it" to others, is what many of the veterans bring - each does it differently, but the result is a consistent feel over many years, which is what makes it different from a random (albeit great) party.

In the default world as well, populations that have large sudden shifts in demographics have long adjustment periods and many long term issues. With the ratio of virgins already being orders of magnitude higher, I think it was a "least bad" option, to both solve the camps dilemma, and shift the balance of tickets towards veterans. I suspect there will be many difficulties in the distribution. No matter how it's done it will not be really "fair", but I hope it can be done without breaking the fabric of the community.

I fully support named tickets. I think there are simple ways to get all ticket named, which would cut heavily into the scalpers possible gains. You could provide a list of 1,2 or X names that can be associated with a ticket - none are known to scalpers before they sell, and the chances of matching a random name are not good enough for a scalper. This can be done for the "new" STEP tickets as well.

Allow two weeks for everyone who has a ticket to attach a list of names to it, before STEP begins, or have your ticket refunded. Scalpers, realizing they will have no way to know names before the tickets are sold will have to return their tickets to the ORG for a refund. Make a FULL refund, so the scalpers don't lose anything, then they will be more likely to return the tickets, making no "enemies" and providing the most "win" for the community.

These "real time" changes of the system, in collaboration with the community, even if they are a pain in the @#$, are the biggest way to thwart scalpers. It's a community coming together and THAT is what BM is about.

Let's keep this going and we will have another great burn!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Sandstorm » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:16 am

MedullaB wrote:My fear isn't necessarily of virgins - quite frankly I have the same fears of any burners who have not expereinced the absolute fierceness that playa weather can throw at you.

The last two burns I see more and more structures not properly secured, the last two years no problems since there hasn't been any major winds...

I just don't want to see a mangled aluminum EZ up come flying towards me at 45 mph...


Well said. '07 was my first burn. I got to BRC in an RV via a ride share I was lucky enough to find on eplaya. I went back in '08 and my wife came with me and we were part of a low key and well established NYC based theme camp that had about 35 members. My wife and I did load in and load out and were well prepared for our burn...

...except for the zip cord required to tether down the magnificent high end steel frame shade structure that I had bought for that burn.

Being that I had experienced the dust storms of '07 you can imagine the terror I felt at the moment that I realized that while my shade structure was well and amply grounded with rebar at its feet it was not secured well enough to avoid being turned into a large and deadly projectile via high winds or a dust storm.

Well, I still thank (the) G_d(s) for the fellow camp mate of mine who was not just a veteran burner but also a ranger and who had an ample supply of parachute cord from which I was able to freely borrow.

I learned from my fear inducing fuck up in '08 and went back in '10 and '11 and can now set up and break down my encampment with practically no assistance from others.

Which leads me to the subject of virgins:

waynerd, finxiekins, brianna: you folks seem awesome and I am sure that you will be make BRC a better place for your presence. It makes me feel badly to read that any of you have received any type of bad vibe because you are virgins. Altough I have blown up FB about my thoughts on the ticketing fiasco I have only recently returned to/been spending time on eplaya. FYI, Sandstorm is the playa name I was given in '10 and this is a new eplaya account for me. I used to post here before I had a playa-name and I can attest to the fact that long before this ticket Lotto-ery fiasco blew up eplaya was already a well oiled snark machine.

I wish all the (good) virgins the best for their first burn. I hope that they get to experience both the spectacle of BRC and the quiet sides of BRC the ones. There have been plenty of moments when I have cried at the beauty of the natural environment, the passion that goes into the art and the attire of burners, the open hearts that many bring or discover when on the playa. It's amazing what modern life can be like when capitalism and smart phones are swapped out for community, mirth, team work and the Black Rock desert.

Which leads me to the subject of veteran burners and the positive role that they play with virgins:

Beyond the long term survival of the event what I worry most about this year's burn is that if in fact there is going to be a surge of virgins this year that the ticket Lotto-ery fiasco will reduce the number of veteran burners who will be on playa and who know how to properly respond when they see a burner at risk, someone who is in need of H20 or some food, a steady hand back to their camp or the med tent, an insulating layer of clothing or a plastic survival blanket.

It has been said by some that being on the playa is not that tough an experience and I would both agree and disagree. I have a cast iron stomach, do not freak out on when on recreational drugs or in panic situations and have done ample long distance cycling and thus know how to properly hydrate. That is not the case for everyone else.

Virgins, read up and stock up and know that you will likely buy too much food for the burn because your appetite will likely decrease while you are there. Do not take for granted that even if you are a tough cookie that you will be able to handle the playa experience without hitting some bumps. In '07 I used the med tents twice simply so that I could rest a balky knee and take a nap before I walked all the way back to my camp (6:35 & E) from 3:00 and Esplanade. There's long distances to cover out there on foot or bike, when you are drunk, tripping and/or tired. One night in '07 I laid down on the ground and took a nap under an art installation because I knew that I was too drunk to safely walk home and I felt comfortable taking that nap because I was well prepared: I had dressed in layers and was insulated from the cold and thus knew that I would not get exposure if I passed out on the ground for a while.

Which leads me to the subject of the Lotto-ery:

The simple fact is that via the Lotto-ery certain members of BMORG have done both the community and the event a great disservice with how they have handled this situation. They fucked up. Then they fucked up again. They will continue to fuck up between now and when the gates open to public in August. End of story.

I sadly suspect that we are witnessing the initial death throes of Burning Man. The fact is that certain people in BMORG have brought ample confusion and anger to the community that creates the content for Burning Man. You cannot buy the type of loyalty and good will that this community had for the event prior to the initial Lotto-ery announcement.

I hate to say it but even if I were to acquire a ticket I am not sure that I would go this year after what BMORG has done to the community. Then there's the part of me that after reading this entire thread wants to go to BM this year and see what this cluster fuck will look like in person.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby motskyroonmatick » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:55 am

mrchiff wrote:
hotmess wrote:
Theres Always One wrote:It's really unfortunate that things like this will be sacrificed so that groups like roots society can bring more dubstep to the playa.


I couldn't agree with you more.


I will multi-quote this for eternity


A little introspection may be needed here.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby waynerd » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:59 am

Colonel Monk wrote:
Don't come near Gerlach before dark on Sunday. Though they have been playing with the gate time the past two years, if they say 12:01 on Monday then that's it. Gerlach is small and affected by the loitering. If you try to line up at the gate, some have been banished to D-Lot where they keep you till everyone else in the initial surge has entered the city.

If they do decided to publish the earlier time, then that is the time to line up - just suffice it to say, if you don't have an early entry pass don't come around until it's time to rock.

Flying solo to Bman is awesome. Many people here are worried about not being able to come with their friends - people are super friendly, sometimes it's even better to be with people you don't know because then nobody's watching and you can sorta let the city's conciousness take over...

CM


Thanks Monk, I didn't know anything about the early entry passes etc. Now that I know I'll take my time and arrive with the masses. That's exactly the answer I needed. :)
Looking forward to meeting everyone on the playa, a fresh new sponge ready to absorb all that is TTITD.
Excuse me, this is way different than what was described in the brochure!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby Canoe » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:34 pm

waynerd wrote:Thanks Monk, I didn't know anything about the early entry passes etc. Now that I know I'll take my time and arrive with the masses. That's exactly the answer I needed. :)
Looking forward to meeting everyone on the playa, a fresh new sponge ready to absorb all that is TTITD.

If you have something to sleep in, by all means come to Reno early. All around town it's like a mini-burn with all the Burners gathering. Sunday evening at the walmart parking lots is special, as everyone gets last minute items and is gathered to leave for the playa. After midnight is a real eye opener for the staff at all night stores...
Dress appropriately off-playa people...
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Postby tattoogoddess » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:53 pm

There is 3 reno wal marts. What one is usally the "hub"?
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