BLM

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BLM

Postby goathead » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:25 am

wonder why nobody is sniveling about the BLM?
they are the ones who
set the fucking cap!!!!!!!

we have to fucking live with ti.

you have a BITCH
address it to

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en.html

like they really
give a flying FUCK
about
YOU....
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Re: BLM

Postby Sham » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:36 am

They will give a very big flying fuck if this causes the event to eventually end. Think of the economic impact it will have on the entire northern Nevada area. Airlines, food stores, gas stations, every big box store, car rentals, hotels, storage companies, and on and on and on....
Even the Pershing County Sheriffs would be affected. They plan on the income that comes in from this event. Gerlach will be greatly affected since this is the last thing that's keeping it alive since USG pulled out of Empire.
BLM should and must give a flying fuck, but this is part of the Government, so anything can happen with that. :roll:
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Re: BLM

Postby Herring » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:16 am

50,000+ people damage the road, kick up dust and create dunes where there would be none naturally and compromise the hot springs. Being uncivil to the BLM is not going to help anything.
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Re: BLM

Postby Token » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:47 am

I'd say that sword cuts both ways. The BLM, NHP, P&W Sheriff have all stated facts about the capacity of roads and infrastructure.

The BMORG has decided to take the easy route and not solve the problems presented be the facts stated by the relevant authorities.

Every major urban area deals with the exact same issues, and they solve them. Not BRC.

If there was a reasonable plan to address the capacity of the infrastructure, I doubt the BLM or NHP would have issue with actual population count.

Hey, Sturgis gets 500K each year and all they have is two extra lanes. Funny how that math works.
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Re: BLM

Postby wraith » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:03 am

Token wrote:I'd say that sword cuts both ways. The BLM, NHP, P&W Sheriff have all stated facts about the capacity of roads and infrastructure.

The BMORG has decided to take the easy route and not solve the problems presented be the facts stated by the relevant authorities.

Every major urban area deals with the exact same issues, and they solve them. Not BRC.

If there was a reasonable plan to address the capacity of the infrastructure, I doubt the BLM or NHP would have issue with actual population count.

Hey, Sturgis gets 500K each year and all they have is two extra lanes. Funny how that math works.


Amusingly, I'm sitting here in my Sturgis 2004 shirt. But yeah, that's the case. Nothing to bitch at the BLM about, it's a simple fact that the road system as it is can't handle ramping up the population of BRC to meet demand. It'd be pretty unreasonable to expect the BLM or the already strapped for cash local municipalities like Gerlach to undertake road construction out of their own pocket for a road that would only see heavy traffic 2 weeks a year.
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Re: BLM

Postby Raymaker » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:31 am

Herring wrote:50,000+ people damage the road, kick up dust and create dunes where there would be none naturally and compromise the hot springs. Being uncivil to the BLM is not going to help anything.

I understand this and environmental conservation is all good. But what does anyone get out of this desert if a little dust isn't kicked up. And re the road maintenance, I am sure that BLM doesn't input much more than the minimum it earns from BM into this area, it probably siphons a large chunk to other areas in the US.
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Re: BLM

Postby Elderberry » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:47 am

Herring wrote:50,000+ people damage the road, kick up dust and create dunes where there would be none naturally and compromise the hot springs. Being uncivil to the BLM is not going to help anything.

That has been verified to not be true.
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Re: BLM

Postby Lassen Forge » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:03 am

They DO put a bunch into 447 and 34... as anyone who remembers the event 7+ years ago will tell you. 447 used to be a narrow, woggy county road with no shoulder, and 34? 34??! Remember Pothole City? Hell, it's been both repaved AND widened.

Yeah, NDOT has put a lot into that "unmaintained" road over the years... if you had an idea how expensive maintaining, let alone building, a lane mile of asphalt is, that money is coming from somewhere.

The problem with widening is twofold - one, they have to buy the additional right of way to widen it (what? you didn't realize that's all privately owned land??!!) or in some cases, negotiate with the Paiute Nation for the land (good luck with that!), and THEN once you've bought the land (at a premium, because they know what that stretch of ribbon is worth), you have to build a road out there - equipment, people, hauling the subbase out there, paying it down, then laying the asphalt... None of this is cheap - in fact, its damned expensive. (Call a paving contractor to see how much a 1 lane 1 mile driveway costs to put in, and multiply that times a couple hundred and a half, add markers, paint, engineering costs... Oh yeah, double the maintenance costs while you're at it)...

Oh yeah, justify that road 48 other weeks out of the year, since USG (who was the major tax base up there) ain't using it, and ain't gonna for the next forseeable millenium...

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see the 446/447/34 routes widened to 4 lanes, you betcha... the problem is this - who's got a spare few hundred million + they're willing to donate? You think tickets are expensive now??!!
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Re: BLM

Postby Sham » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:27 am

I have stopped in Gerlach after escaping the event during exodus, and I have to say that the flow of traffic through the town is steady but sporatic. In other words, I might be able to count 30 seconds between vehicles passing though. I have never seen bumper to bumper traffic driving on 447 or though Gerlach.
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Re: BLM

Postby hotmess » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:41 am

I had mentioned this in a previous post as a joke reply but I am now seriously wondering why the BMORG didn't just pull the plug on this year. If the BLM is unwilling to increase the population why not threaten to cancel the event. The BLM is surely not looking at what we post and say here. But I am sure if the event were canceled the surrounding communities would be furious as to the loss of revenue that would be lost this year due to the event not happening. It would be their voice and concern that the BLM would listen to.
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Re: BLM

Postby MyDearFriend » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:55 am

What about an auto-train from Winnemucca? The tracks are still there, right? Could avoid 447 altogether.
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Re: BLM

Postby Drawingablank » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:02 am

MyDearFriend wrote:What about an auto-train from Winnemucca? The tracks are still there, right? Could avoid 447 altogether.

I wonder if those train cars could be modified to accomodate sketchy RV's and trailers.

But on a more serious note, the infrastructure needed to run something like that is astronomically costly especially since winnemucca to gerlach would not be too popular a route the rest of the year.
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Re: BLM

Postby Sham » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:03 am

hotmess wrote:I had mentioned this in a previous post as a joke reply but I am now seriously wondering why the BMORG didn't just pull the plug on this year. If the BLM is unwilling to increase the population why not threaten to cancel the event. The BLM is surely not looking at what we post and say here. But I am sure if the event were canceled the surrounding communities would be furious as to the loss of revenue that would be lost this year due to the event not happening. It would be their voice and concern that the BLM would listen to.

My mind is spinning trying to figure out an analogy to this.
Virtually all involved want this event ot continue. The particapants, BMorg, BLM, Pershing County, all local businesses etc.
It's a matter of working things out together for this to run smoothly. Threatening to take your ball and go home, is not the best way to negociate for a larger capacity.
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Re: BLM

Postby Sham » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:07 am

Drawingablank wrote:But on a more serious note, the infrastructure needed to run something like that is astronomically costly especially since winnemucca to gerlach would not be too popular a route the rest of the year.

I drove this route a month after BM ended a few years back. The entire length of 447, I never passed a car coming in the other direction. The road gets traffic two weeks prior to the event, and two weeks after the event ends. Aside from that, you could practically pitch a tent in the middle of the road and camp out.
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Re: BLM

Postby unjonharley » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:09 am

]
Bob hits a hornets nest..always the trouble maker
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Re: BLM

Postby AntiM » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:37 am

Shambala wrote:
Drawingablank wrote:But on a more serious note, the infrastructure needed to run something like that is astronomically costly especially since winnemucca to gerlach would not be too popular a route the rest of the year.

I drove this route a month after BM ended a few years back. The entire length of 447, I never passed a car coming in the other direction. The road gets traffic two weeks prior to the event, and two weeks after the event ends. Aside from that, you could practically pitch a tent in the middle of the road and camp out.


I didn't know invisible cows could pitch tents.
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Re: BLM

Postby hotmess » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:39 am

Shambala wrote:My mind is spinning trying to figure out an analogy to this. Threatening to take your ball and go home, is not the best way to negociate for a larger capacity.


I am not advocating the end of the event. I would love to see it continue. Was just thinking of ways for the BLM to move at a faster pace.

That's not a bad analogy. When you put it that way the idea kinda stinks. I picture a kid on the playground sulking. Meeeeeeeeeeh!
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Re: BLM

Postby Lassen Forge » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:50 am

Drawingablank wrote:
MyDearFriend wrote:What about an auto-train from Winnemucca? The tracks are still there, right? Could avoid 447 altogether.

I wonder if those train cars could be modified to accomodate sketchy RV's and trailers.

But on a more serious note, the infrastructure needed to run something like that is astronomically costly especially since winnemucca to gerlach would not be too popular a route the rest of the year.


It's actually a fairly well used freight run... if one could buy the land, get the right-of-way from the railroad (I think it's UP), you could build a spur (actually, would darn near have to be a switching yard) near Frog Pond (can't build on the playa itself due to the whole wilderness BLM stuff, plus it would end up underwater), and route people in via Jungo, thru Gerlach, and 34. Bypass 99% of 447, tho I am sure the Paiute Nation wouldn't like it too much...

Biggest problem is paying for rolling stock and haulage costs (You could store the stock either on site or rent some space, tho that's 'spensive shit for traincars)... but I can see it happening... IF someone puts the money down to do it.
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Re: BLM

Postby vargaso » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:51 am

How impacted to the roads actually get? As some have mentioned, even during peak exodus times, the traffic, while slow and steady, isn't bumper-to-bumper. The only time it gets that way is the night the gate opens, where it can back up all the way to Gerlach. I believe having an arrival overflow lot, something like the dreaded Lot D of 2009, only not punitive, could mitigate this traffic jam, where cars would be allowed onto the playa and shunted into an orderly overflow lot until the gates open.

I don't know, I'm sure the road issue has been investigated every which way by the BMORG, it just seems from the outside to be a solvable problem considering there are other events that take place in small rural areas that attract a much larger crowd that is not steeped in Leave No Trace philosophy, to say the least, and they seem to be able to keep coming back.
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Re: BLM

Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:55 am

Herring wrote:50,000+ people damage the road, kick up dust and create dunes where there would be none naturally and compromise the hot springs. Being uncivil to the BLM is not going to help anything.

Thank you. Put down the pitchforks, you rabble. ;)
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Re: BLM

Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:59 am

don't forget, among the various agencies, private and public, as well as LLC, they are all humans.
You gotta know, there is a huge mix of ego, narcissism, greed, corruption, megalomania, idealism, Pollyanna-ism, sincere helpfulness, hoping for the best, rational and irrational expectations, POV related to "right vs wrong", elitism, entitlement, inclusion/exclusion.........on and on..........

it's not so simple, given the various interactions.
IMHO.
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Re: BLM

Postby Bob » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:14 am

jkisha wrote:
Herring wrote:50,000+ people damage the road, kick up dust and create dunes where there would be none naturally and compromise the hot springs. Being uncivil to the BLM is not going to help anything.

That has been verified to not be true.


ITYM unproven. Spend a windy afternoon sitting on the playa and you can watch dunes form around your ass. Then come back in September and watch DPW knock down and disperse them with road grading equipment.
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Re: BLM

Postby unjonharley » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:16 am

[
The BLM has no say about the NDOT..

All the high desert HWY's get a beating over the weather year..
I think we are feeding on a red herring..
By the time the traffic gets to Gerlach some has already turned north.
Maybe we should stop with this knee jerk, and think it through. What is the real problem?
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Re: BLM

Postby Canoe » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:28 am

Somewhere on ePlaya someone posted the idea of staggered entry and exit, with something (a lottery?) to determine which day you can first enter (Saturday or Sunday). So 1/2 the gate load on Saturday and 1/2 on Sunday. Same for exodus, only: voluntary? Monday & Tuesday?
Object is to cut the peak load of the highways and all the towns along the way down to half?
Easier drive, and reduced risk of accidents?

Would it work?

What would make it work?
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Re: BLM

Postby SquirrelHead » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:49 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:Thank you. Put down the pitchforks, you rabble. ;)


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Re: BLM

Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:51 am

Canoe wrote:Somewhere on ePlaya someone posted the idea of staggered entry and exit, with something (a lottery?) to determine which day you can first enter (Saturday or Sunday). So 1/2 the gate load on Saturday and 1/2 on Sunday. Same for exodus, only: voluntary? Monday & Tuesday?
Object is to cut the peak load of the highways and all the towns along the way down to half?
Easier drive, and reduced risk of accidents?

Would it work?

What would make it work?


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Re: BLM

Postby Bob » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:10 am

Why am I picturing a Hippie Drill mounted on the front of Ygmir's fire truck?
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Re: BLM

Postby Stephendragonfly » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:34 pm

I think that we need to clone Larry Harvey and the rest of the Board so that there can be a second simultaneous Burn.
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Re: BLM

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:48 pm

Stephendragonfly wrote:I think that we need to clone Larry Harvey and the rest of the Board so that there can be a second simultaneous Burn.
Fertility 2.0.

That's sure to increase pay roll costs...
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Re: BLM

Postby ygmir » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:59 pm

Bob wrote:Why am I picturing a Hippie Drill mounted on the front of Ygmir's fire truck?


I'll have to take it off my zipper........
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