BOYCOTT THE BURN

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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby TheJudge » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:18 am

Looking at the original post and the follow up comment by Uncle sticky, this discussion is not just about the scalpers. This is about boycotting the entire thing. The entire event. Everyone. All of us.

And the logic is this:

It's an event that everyone talks about.
Because of this, it's become very popular.
And because everyone wants to go, and not everyone can fit,
Everyone should avoid going at all.


That's what Sticky is proposing.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby mshaman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:32 am

BBadger wrote:Oh great, now we'll see a lot of people who simply didn't win tickets claiming they're "boycotting" the event.


SHE didn't break up with ME! I broke up with HER! I didn't get fired, I quit! :-D

There are better strategies of resistance on this issue.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby wh..sh » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:37 am

TheJudge wrote:It's an event that everyone talks about.
Because of this, it's become very popular.
And because everyone wants to go, and not everyone can fit,
Everyone should avoid going at all.


I see a flaw in the logic in the fact that the proposed solution bares no relevance to the actual issue.
How would boycotting the event be an answer to the issue that demand is higher than supply?
Seems like someone wants us to throw a group tantrum.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby BBadger » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:40 am

TheJudge wrote:Looking at the original post and the follow up comment by Uncle sticky, this discussion is not just about the scalpers. This is about boycotting the entire thing. The entire event. Everyone. All of us.

And the logic is this:

It's an event that everyone talks about.
Because of this, it's become very popular.
And because everyone wants to go, and not everyone can fit,
Everyone should avoid going at all.

That's what Sticky is proposing.


I fully endorse this...

...so there are more tickets available for my own camp.

In that same line of thought, money is the source of all evil in this world. Everybody should boycott money too! Send it to me so that I may properly dispose of it!
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby dunkk » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:34 pm

Yeah, I'm not going. So there! and it's not because I feel left out or uninvited or sore or bitter. Most of all it's not because I didnt' get a ticket.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby uncle sticky » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:32 pm

Hmmmm, snowpack is less than 50%. Step has crashed. I would suggest a reconsideration.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby Galaxo Magic » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:30 am

toaster wrote:has any... any year getting to Burning Man been easy? If it were easy we would not appreciate it as much. The journey there is part of the experience and part of it is adversity. Someone reminded me of that last night on one of the lists...

SURE, just buy into a Plug N Play camp. Everything will be provided for you.

PS - I am reading this because I am really, really, REALLY bored. . .
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:51 am

mshaman wrote:
BBadger wrote:Oh great, now we'll see a lot of people who simply didn't win tickets claiming they're "boycotting" the event.


SHE didn't break up with ME! I broke up with HER! I didn't get fired, I quit! :-D

There are better strategies of resistance on this issue.


...Like finding another babe.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby ygmir » Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:54 am

Ugly Dougly wrote:
mshaman wrote:
BBadger wrote:Oh great, now we'll see a lot of people who simply didn't win tickets claiming they're "boycotting" the event.


SHE didn't break up with ME! I broke up with HER! I didn't get fired, I quit! :-D

There are better strategies of resistance on this issue.


...Like finding another babe.


get a grip........you know what he means.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby BBadger » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:13 am

ygmir wrote:get a grip........you know what he means.


We are talking about masturbation right?
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby Ugly Dougly » Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:16 pm

You are asking Ygmir, right?
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby BBadger » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:45 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:You are asking Ygmir, right?


Well, unless you're interested too, I'm not partial.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby ZaphodBurner » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:52 pm

vargaso wrote:
toaster wrote:has any... any year getting to Burning Man been easy? If it were easy we would not appreciate it as much. The journey there is part of the experience and part of it is adversity. Someone reminded me of that last night on one of the lists...


You know, no. It's not that difficult. Sure, it can be a lot of work, but seriously, it's mostly fun, even the drive out there.


Unless there's a greasy mark on your window where a deer's head got stuck between the rear-view mirror and the driver's window, and you had to pull deer viscera out of your grill, and then replace your headlights, radiator, etc in some place like Lakeview. I dunno, man. I've damned near died twice going to or from the burn. You're EXACTLY right but we can't dismiss the fact that the desert highway can cause you to be just as dead as the Donner Party.

In my opinion, THE MOST DANGEROUS PART OF THE BURN IS THE DRIVE HOME because people sit in Exodus for x amount of hours and then try to make the drive while they're dehydrated, hung over and totally exhausted. I think there should be more emphasis on the fact that if you're hearing trance music and seeing art cars passing through the mountains at night, you're probably too tired to drive.

PS...fuck no I'm not going to boycott the burn. People make mistakes. Shit happens. If this is somebody's tenth burn and they've never sat one out, maybe it's time to let somebody else ride the merry-go-round anyway.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby moonrise » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:17 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:
vargaso wrote:
toaster wrote:has any... any year getting to Burning Man been easy? If it were easy we would not appreciate it as much. The journey there is part of the experience and part of it is adversity. Someone reminded me of that last night on one of the lists...


You know, no. It's not that difficult. Sure, it can be a lot of work, but seriously, it's mostly fun, even the drive out there.


Unless there's a greasy mark on your window where a deer's head got stuck between the rear-view mirror and the driver's window, and you had to pull deer viscera out of your grill, and then replace your headlights, radiator, etc in some place like Lakeview. I dunno, man. I've damned near died twice going to or from the burn. You're EXACTLY right but we can't dismiss the fact that the desert highway can cause you to be just as dead as the Donner Party.

In my opinion, THE MOST DANGEROUS PART OF THE BURN IS THE DRIVE HOME because people sit in Exodus for x amount of hours and then try to make the drive while they're dehydrated, hung over and totally exhausted. I think there should be more emphasis on the fact that if you're hearing trance music and seeing art cars passing through the mountains at night, you're probably too tired to drive.

PS...fuck no I'm not going to boycott the burn. People make mistakes. Shit happens. If this is somebody's tenth burn and they've never sat one out, maybe it's time to let somebody else ride the merry-go-round anyway.


Yep I'm waaaay too tired to leave until Tuesday or Weds morning after the burn. I miss Exodus (yay) and see all the stuck trailers on my way out. Almost got stuck myself in a pull out (before I80) of what seemed like 2 feet deep churned up dust. Luckily I got it in four wheel drive and juuuust barely got one front tires to grab pavement...felt like insane snow driving which I am accustomned to, phew!
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby Sail Man » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:46 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:How many times will I be cross posting if I say that I adore Simon?


a teraflop?
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby carpenns » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:36 pm

Boycotting the burn isn't really such a radical idea, you have to do (or not do ) 'something' when the thing you love has started taking on a different color. The idea that land and 'resources that we bring anyway' is limited at Burning Man is absolutely absurd to me, the idea of the ticket lottery seemed ill conceived and cruel to make a game out of something that didn't need to be made a game of in the first place! (BMan should simply increase the ticket prices to $4000 themselves as the event gets closer and sell cheap tics on a first come first served basis so that we don't have to kill each other just to attend)..

All of this has made me sad and I'm mourning basically but have some things to say...please if you have a minute, click on this link to my webpage where i've written a more thoughtful response (complete with images).

http://www.johnskater.com/art%20page/Bu ... risis.html


Or if it will simply let me post the text.

March 26th, 2012

The Burning Man Ticket Crisis of 2012

(Worse than the Holocaust/ Now we’ll all need a ‘miracle’ if this doesn’t mark the end of the burn as we know it/ Burning Man 1986 to 2011 RIP)

‘Oh what fun the burn was’, I feel myself saying. I’ve been going to the thing since about 1999 and considering all of the bullshit surrounding these circumstances, I am definitely feeling that this marks the end of an event that for such a long time had so much power and truth and freedom behind it, and that had changed my life for the better, often turning it upside down multiple times before getting it right in the process, but still. Also, I’m realizing (after posting some aggressive things on the BM facebook page about this and getting shot down a bit) that this is a mournful, saddening, and tragic thing that’s gone down. I’m not the only one basically holding vigil over this and trying to figure it all out. As much as I feel argumentative and upset over the obvious nonsense that has occurred since Burning Man has been ‘sold off into the hands of some rather feeble minded and ignorant “not for profit’ organization owners’, I think for my own sanity I’ll just try to calmly lay out a few important points I’ve noticed over the recent years concerning the ticketing process, and how I feel they are all basically awful adjustments and indicative of an organization that is turning Burning Man into a ‘very expensive to attend Cirque Du Soleil type rock concert for wealthy, unquestioning, unradical and easy to manipulate yuppie types’….(with minds, spirits and spines that resemble perhaps a used pipe cleaner after it’s been worn in a little…etc)

Over the past few years, the ‘greed heads’ behind the event, who I feel, sort of stopped caring about preserving the integrity of the event, rescinded a few basic freedoms one by one that us long time burners had become accustomed to, which as time goes on, will allow them to just basically tweak everything in their own weird way so as to keep ‘the riff raff/ lay burner’ out, maximize profits, and turn it into a quasi commercial event that only the most insipid and easily manipulated would find appealing.

Those things in no particular order would be 1. One could no longer buy tickets to the event at the gate right up and through the actual event, about 2008 or so. They just dropped that one on people right out of the blue and you had people show up at the last minute with hundreds of dollars for a ticket and they were told ‘no can do’. 2. Claiming that tickets have been ‘sold out’/ space limited. 2011, citing perhaps the ever growing and out of control population of Burning Man over the years (not true really, it just sort of fluctuated around 48k, sometimes 53k, sometimes lower. I saw the charts they put up in The Artery). 3. Now, not only are tickets limited to a hard fast amount of 50k, Marianne Goodell and co. have decided to play God with it all and create this insulting ‘ticket lottery’ where, without any transparency, they can pick and choose who gets to have a ticket to burning man and how much they can charge them for it…’ok’. Now I’m reading people’s posts that say you actually get an email that says ‘LOSER’ on it if you are not picked to get a ticket. Why even do that? How’s about a simple courteous ‘Sorry, you have not been picked for a ticket seeing as how we at Bmorg completely have had our collective heads up our asses for more years than even we would like to admit. Thank you, come again.’ How awful is that to insult people like that and make them feel like ‘they aren’t what Burning Man needs this year’ or whatever? Way to radically segregate and not include the vast majority of the types of people, like myself I imagine, a creative artist, musician, ‘participant’ who could barely afford one ticket, and separate us from a bad crony base of ‘slave mega theme camp labor, dpw, close friends of Larry Harvey and Bmorg people, lucky easily manipulated and easy to impress virgins, and retards who have more money than sense and don’t see the harm in buying a scalped ticket for more than a thousand dollars, etc.’.

It was only less than a year ago that the ethos of ‘if you bought a ticket to burning man and aren’t able to go, you’re not really supposed to sell that ticket to someone who CAN go for much more than you paid for it if that’. All those good values are completely out the door in these discussions on ‘to buy or not buy from a scalper’, that much I’ve noticed. It’s also safe to say that the lottery, and the cancellation of the freaking 2nd March 28th 10k lottery, is an absolute violation of the spirit behind ‘radical inclusion’. Now if I do get to attend what’s left of burning man, I can’t even expect to party with other potentially rad random people like myself. My ‘new best friends’ for the week will have been hand picked by Bmorg for their various, relevant to them, strengths and weaknesses…’great’. I already live in Las Vegas and can recognize a bad casino game or promotion when I come across one. This lottery crap is a way for them to start messing around with things, like our basic ability to even attend the event, by fooling with variables that up to this point, Burners understood to be a ‘right’ not a ‘privilege’, and something as simple as ‘first come first served less expensive tickets, increasingly more expensive tickets right up to the event, perhaps not through’ definitely should be. You lay, first time ticket holders, can cry ‘jaded vet burner’ all you want, but I’m trying to fight for my right to party…while sadly, also trying to decide whether that party is still even something worth fighting for (in its present poorly controlled state).

So I’m watching the latest brand spanking new episode of South Park this evening, and in it, weird, shrewd laws have come down surrounding ‘how a person spends his or her time using a toilet’, ‘the last bastion of American freedom’, they referred to it as. Going to the toilet now requires a full security check like at the airport complete with anal body probes and a camera installed in the corner of every single bathroom and commode across the land. At the center of it all there was this room with all of these monitors and a ‘fat older greasy man’ who watched everybody go to the bathroom while he squirted lotion onto himself and jacked off. Ultimately, Eric Cartman angrily stares down one of the cameras, throws a gun down onto a stool, and drags in a baby hostage, and one of the security guards tied up with duct tape before taking some black spray paint and covering up the camera lens. When the ‘fat greasy man’ gets on the PA system to report a disturbance, his voice and likeness is exactly like that of Larry Harvey’s. It would be difficult to ‘prove’ that the South Park creators were targeting the Burning Man ticket crisis per say, but the whole metaphor of tampering with and attempting to control ‘the last bastion of American freedom’ by some fat, greasy, masturbating man made a bit of sense to me, and ultimately made me sad. Is that what its’ come down to? That we have to ‘make fun’ of this guy who up to this point, I still lovingly considered to be the ‘grand poobah’ of the whole thing, ya know?

FREE PAUL ADDIS SO THAT HE CAN COME AND BURN DOWN THE MAN ONCE AND FOR GOOD!

Oh, I’ve pretty much said all I have to say at this point, I realize many are grieving ‘our one time good thing that we all once had to get together, make friends, art, love, and party that is now some sick man’s/ organization’s idea of being a lucky prize for the lucky few’, but let me harp a bit more ok?

I’ve attended, and participated mind you, something like 9 burns out of 14 years or something, and these past few years, I’ve been a poor starving film industry worker, artist, and musician who took special strains to fill an envelope with a couple hundred dollars marked ‘Burning Man’ on it, so that come springtime, I could be one of the ‘first come first served not so expensive ticket holders’. Plan worked pretty good the past 6 years seeing as how I always have friends struggling to find a ticket at the last minute and I couldn’t afford the ticket prices as we approach say early August. Now, even though I have my couple hundred, I can’t even get one of those once ‘cheaper early tickets’. These past few years, after getting the ticket I would network on Craigslist or the burning man website for a ‘ride’ to the event. Every year, I would talk to and screen potential rides and vice versa and every year I would hear the same thing…’well, my friends who all bought tickets aren’t able to go now or chickened out or something and I have empty seats in my RV as well as some tickets to sell.’ Like ‘what abundance! There were always these people that couldn’t go and have extra tickets and relevant to me, easy to hitch a ride with for a bit of gas money. Like, I would sometimes BEG my friends to go to Burning Man with me because it was so much better than say ‘blowing a couple hundred in some strip or dance club in a few hours one night’. Like, even when it was easy to just ‘get a ticket and go to Burning Man’ it never freaking filled up! There was always this sense of emptiness, for me at least, of all the friends I knew who had never gone and that I would probably never see there. Now, how much more so! Now I could never convince these people that this is something awesome and incredible that they could easily attend and learn something from. Now I can’t even go! I didn’t get a ticket! I’m not going to pay some insane price for a ticket from some bad scalper! I could be one of those people with a sign that says ‘MIRACLE?’ on it sitting on the side of the road in Gerlach, but haven’t I already been patronized by these Bmorg people enough? Feeding into their already grossly inflated and malignant sense of power, importance, and ego?

What these ‘Burning Man Controlling People’ don’t understand is that WE MAKE THE BURN, not the other way around, THEY DON’T MAKE BURNING MAN FOR US SO THAT WE CAN ATTEND, WE MAKE IT FOR EACH OTHER SO THAT WE CAN GET SOMETHING OUT OF IT!!! You know? Like, ‘duh!’ That’s what’s made any ‘good burn’ a good burn to begin with, that all the people that were really feeling it and wanted to come got to come and pour there passion and art and whatever into it and dance and got to participate and be part of the ‘gathering of the tribes’. Now it seems they’ve got some people convinced that Burning Man is more like ‘a very special Cirque Du Soleil type rock concert’ that only a few lucky and perhaps rich (oh the people that are going to fall for those scalped ticket prices) audience members are going to be able to attend. ‘It’s limited now’ saith the Bmorg, and we better start looking around for one of these regionals perhaps to start taking more seriously.

<3 Publisher Emeritus, MG Nos http://www.johnskater.com



You’ve lost that loving feeling Burning Man (you asshole!)…now it’s gone gone gone…

You never close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips.
And there's no tenderness like before in your fingertips.
You're trying hard not to show it, (baby).
But baby, baby I know it...

You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Whoa, that lovin' feeling,
You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...gone...wooooooh.

Now there's no welcome look in your eyes
when I reach for you.
And now your're starting to critisize little things I do.
It makes me just feel like crying, (baby).
'Cause baby, something in you is dying.

You lost that lovin' feeling,
Whoa, that lovin' feeling,
You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...gone...woooooah

Baby, baby, I get down on my knees for you.

If you would only love me like you used to do, yeah.

We had a love...a love...a love you don't find everyday.

So don't...don't...don't...don't let it slip away.

Baby (baby), baby (baby),
I beg of you please...please,
I need your love (I need your love),
I need your love (I need your love),
So bring it on back (So bring it on back),
Bring it on back (so bring it on back).

Bring back that lovin' feeling,
Whoa, that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling,
'Cause it's gone...gone...gone,
and I can't go on,
noooo...

Bring back that lovin' feeling,
Whoa, that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling,
'Cause it's gone...gone...
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby Ratty » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:58 pm

Hummm, I plan to go and have the best burn yet. Granted, this is only my 3rd trip but time doesn't matter any more than size. What in the world makes you think it will be horrible? Hasn't this event changed alot over the past years. Was 2010 the same as 2000? I love change. I embrace change. Burning Man is all about acceptance, tolerance, being helpful and open to new things. It's a vacation. It's a long movie. It's something I look forward to every day of the year. If you are set on seeing the same people and doing the same things, go to work.

I'm thinking happy thoughts. I've gone to my happy place. I'm covered with dust.

I hope you come and enjoy the experience with new and old friends.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:39 pm

carpenns wrote:(Worse than the Holocaust/

Do you actually expect people to take you seriously when you post something like this? I'd take not going ot burningman ever again over going to that other camp.

*...no more words...*
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby catinthefunnyhat » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:00 pm

carpenns wrote:Now I’m reading people’s posts that say you actually get an email that says ‘LOSER’ on it if you are not picked to get a ticket. Why even do that? How’s about a simple courteous ‘Sorry, you have not been picked for a ticket...


Burning Man Tickets wrote:DEAR Catherine,
We're really sorry to inform you that your entry was not selected in the Main Sale to purchase Burning Man 2012 tickets....
Since you were among those unable to secure tickets through this Main Sale drawing...


Please don't make up stories. And if you hear stories, please fact-check them before spreading them around like so much, erm, organic fertilizer.


theCryptofishist wrote:
carpenns wrote:(Worse than the Holocaust/

Do you actually expect people to take you seriously when you post something like this? I'd take not going ot burningman ever again over going to that other camp.

*...no more words...*


^This. Seriously, carpenns, you need to do some reading about the Holocaust. Maybe during the week of August 27-September 3.
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:03 pm

And you can always follow that up with the Armenian Genocide, Pol Pot, Smallpox Blankets, and the Terror.

We'll have a further reading list in a couple of weeks.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby moonrise » Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:39 pm

carpenns, you should appologize for comparing the Holocaust to the ticket lottery. You'll feel better. The sooner you say you're sorry, the better.

Why is it you haven't been included in the 10k direct tix given to theme camps, volunteer deptartments, an MV project, something, in all those years of attending? Why?
You seem more angry you didn't get your ticket and less concerned with your tribes also not getting tickets.

9 out of 14 burns, so miss one, and maybe go see a burner freindly shrink. Good luck and come back when you're thinking clearly, okay?
I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby carpenns » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:37 am

Well there are definitely people more worthy than myself who 'deserve such a special ticket to the 'private event' that now occupies the place Burning man once stood', in any case, it would make me sad to get a ticket and know that all these other radical self expressers weren't as priviledged...as far as 'worse than the holocaust and loose research....I've made my point...you catch my drift...I insist...the thing is fucking tainted and I'm bummed about that..ILLUSTRATED PIE CHART OF DEMOGRAPHICS COMING SOON....did anyone even read the whole thing? WTF?
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby pink » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:09 am

I felt I had to at least skim it so that I could snarkily comment on what a masturbatory whine fest it was without adding TLDR.

what a frakkin' load of tripe!

And a maturbatory whine fest.
I'm not a slut, I'm good time floozy!
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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby carpenns » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:25 am

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Re: BOYCOTT THE BURN

Postby carpenns » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:27 am

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Blog-related

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:38 am

Cute chart, but ignoring the BLM elephant in the room. It's not up to Marianne to determine the population cap, genius. It's the BLM.


*yawn*


Keep whining.. I'm preparing to burn a man in 158 days.
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby carpenns » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:30 am

junglesmacks wrote:Cute chart, but ignoring the BLM elephant in the room. It's not up to Marianne to determine the population cap, genius. It's the BLM.


*yawn*


Keep whining.. I'm preparing to burn a man in 158 days.


No, no...I haven't...my point being that 'Mariane/ Bmorg' have done a rather insulting job of representing the actual 'needs of the burn' to what I imagine as a room full of gray haired librarians with horn rimmed glasses (which depcits the BLM/ gov. entities) and basically failing to stand up say 'hey...this thing needs to happen like THIS, THE WAY IT SHOULD HAPPEN...or WE AINT GOING TO DO IT AT ALL/ we leave the burden of destroying 'the last bastion of American freedom' in YOUR HANDS BLM ONES...etc....

in any case 'JERK FACE'...have fun enjoying a conscienceless burn the type only a complete douche would truly enjoy..the kind where you dont even CARE about the good folks who SHOULD have been there...just happy your own dumb 'Opulent TEmple worshipping ass' can be there to enjoy...my complete rant HERE

"how can I be happy about a burn that my better burner brethren did not have the same chance to be a part of as I?!"....you can, I can't ..thats the difference.

http://www.johnskater.com/art%20page/Bu ... risis.html
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:36 am

It gives me joy to no end to know that's one more bitter, jaded, bad attitude person staying home this year and one more ticket available for a positive, creating, forward thinking participant.

:D


Burning Man: Separating the wheat from the chaff since 1986.
Last edited by junglesmacks on Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby Sham » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:38 am

Carpenns, easy does it with the name calling. You might consider putting your links in your signature instead of the body of your posts and third, who the hell is Marianne? Is this a Gilligan's Island thing again?
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Re: Positive Suggestions for Fixing What Is Obviously Broken

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:44 am

Image
Savannah wrote:It sounds freaky & wrong, so you need to do it.
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