Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blog

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Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blog

Postby Minxy » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:27 pm

http://blog.burningman.com/2012/02/news ... situation/

February 3rd, 2012 | Filed under News
Burning Man Addresses 2012 Ticket Situation
Posted by Maid Marian

Marian Goodell is a Founding Board Member of Black Rock City LLC, and Burning Man’s Director of Business and Communications.

Participants, friends, Burners, community:

The Burning Man organization recognizes that the ticket registration and random drawing process has caused many participants frustration and concern over whether they can attend the event this year.

Black Rock City 2011, Photo by Luke Szczepanski

A team of Burning Man staff and organizers, who have been working on the ticketing process since August 2011, met Thursday to review what happened and what can be done moving forward.

The organization is looking at short term fixes and long term solutions to improve the ticketing process to make it work as well as possible for as many people as possible.

Following phone conversations with major theme camp and art group organizers, we determined that only 20%-25% of the key people needed to bring those projects to the playa had received notifications for tickets. A number of people also told us they’d used multiple credit cards and asked friends to register for them as a way to increase their chances of getting tickets. Those who received more tickets than they need said they are considering how to redistribute them.

We believe we need two weeks to let the dust settle to see how much redistribution happens. Even with that redistribution we know that key people and projects may not get confirmations in time to move forward with their plans. We are looking at options to keep that from happening.

Burning Man’s most important priority is to make sure the community stays intact in the face of the current challenges. Combining what we learned from the phone conversations and what we’ve heard from the Burner community, we’ve come up with some ideas to address the short term issues. We will continue to gather information and listen to your feedback as we work towards announcing our plans within two weeks.

In the meantime we urge our community not to buy from scalpers or from large resale sites. We will have the Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP) activated on February 22. This is the most secure and hassle free way to enter the re-sale system. Please use it.

Those registrants who received rejection letters should keep an eye on your email as information about STEP and any other options will be made to you first.

Not everyone who wants a ticket this year will get one, that is clear — the demand clearly exceeds supply. But we are going to do everything we can in the coming days to ensure that we preserve and respect the community that supports and creates this event both in the short term and long term, and we will be reaching out to you and working with you to make that happen.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby MyDearFriend » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:31 pm

Thanks for posting this, Minxy; the blog has been really slammed.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby playa hanjin » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:34 pm

This is what I read:

Blah blah blah we're listening, we promise

Blah blah blah in two weeks we'll have something more

Blah blah blah We failed to anticipate this even though anyone who's ever attended a Psych 101 or Econ 101 class and can rub two brain cells together saw this coming

Blah blah blah Too little, too late.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby shykat » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:36 pm

Sounds like some camps might get first shot at what tickets are left..
We believe we need two weeks to let the dust settle to see how much redistribution happens. Even with that redistribution we know that key people and projects may not get confirmations in time to move forward with their plans. We are looking at options to keep that from happening
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby MyDearFriend » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:57 pm

shykat wrote:Sounds like some camps might get first shot at what tickets are left..
We believe we need two weeks to let the dust settle to see how much redistribution happens. Even with that redistribution we know that key people and projects may not get confirmations in time to move forward with their plans. We are looking at options to keep that from happening


Turn some of those fu*kin staff tickets loose, that's what they need to do.

Ha, what camps are going to be ready to apply for placement by the deadline?
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby ZaphodBurner » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:39 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:Ha, what camps are going to be ready to apply for placement by the deadline?


Negative on The Green Hour. So far only 2 of our 20 have tickets. This doesn't include the root beer guy, the absinthe guy, the couple who offered to buy the trailer to carry the mutant vehicle, or the people building the mutant vehicle.

Didn't the art grant application deadline already pass?
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby shykat » Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:59 pm

ZaphodBurner wrote:Didn't the art grant application deadline already pass?


Yes on Feb 1st
http://www.burningman.com/installations/submit_grant.html

Theme camp registration ends April 26th

Source:http://forms.burningman.com/
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:13 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:
Turn some of those fu*kin staff tickets loose, that's what they need to do.



How will they be able to retain their staff if they refuse tickets to staff ?


even staff people need to show a ticket at the gate..(well, maybe not LLC Members or Senior Staff but thats only like 30 people)
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby MyDearFriend » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:16 pm

Ha, lemur, the LLC can buy back all those STEP tickets, right? :P As soon as they come rolling in. Which they will, I am sure... :roll:

If the art grants don't come with packs of tickets I don't see what use they are going to be. :?

Another unintended consequence! Are we really finding out now that random selection might not have been the right way to play this?
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby The CO » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:19 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:Ha, what camps are going to be ready to apply for placement by the deadline?


M*A*S*H 4207th & Rosie's Bar.

Can't speak for anyone else.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby Mofessor » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:07 pm

We'll see how they handle it, but at least it''s an acknowledgement that there's a problem. The solutions they propose will tell us what we really need to know, but I think this is a step in the right direction.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby socks » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:13 pm

So let me get this right.The scalpers have 12,000 to 15,000 tickets and BM.org fix is to let in the special people.So the rest of us are not so special.As a 9 year burner i say fuck you.You guys fucked this up and all i want to do is go home
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby BBadger » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:19 pm

socks wrote:So let me get this right.The scalpers have 12,000 to 15,000 tickets and BM.org fix is to let in the special people.So the rest of us are not so special.As a 9 year burner i say fuck you.You guys fucked this up and all i want to do is go home


What ass did you pick those numbers out of?

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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby socks » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:11 pm

Not so what most camps are saying is 20 to 30% at best got tickets.Who do you think has the tickets?
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby Elderberry » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:24 pm

playa hanjin wrote:This is what I read:

Blah blah blah we're listening, we promise

Blah blah blah in two weeks we'll have something more

Blah blah blah We failed to anticipate this even though anyone who's ever attended a Psych 101 or Econ 101 class and can rub two brain cells together saw this coming

Blah blah blah Too little, too late.


You can say that again.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby Elderberry » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:27 pm

MyDearFriend wrote:Ha, lemur, the LLC can buy back all those STEP tickets, right? :P As soon as they come rolling in. Which they will, I am sure... :roll:

If the art grants don't come with packs of tickets I don't see what use they are going to be. :?

Another unintended consequence! Are we really finding out now that random selection might not have been the right way to play this?


Anyone with half a brain was saying this from the moment it was announced.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby Leo » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:12 pm

An apology is in order. Does the Burning Man org have the balls (or ovaries) to say: "Hey, we fucked this up good. Sorry about that and better luck next year." I would rather hear a simple apology instead of the corporate PR babble of Maid Marian. Come to think of it, the fertility theme relates to getting screwed on trying to get tickets.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby Igneouss » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:44 am

The org needs to put a significant number of tickets for sale on the STEP system so that it will be shown to be viable. Any time scalper tickets go up in cost, the org should release a few more tickets to drive down the price. Make it very clear that scalpers will be undercut every time.

The idea that big theme campers (read: insiders) should get preference is reprehensible. Shame on the profit mongering LLC.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby AbundantChoice » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:05 am

An idea that might help:

- the 10,000 remaining tickets are sold through the STEP system rather than an open sale
- tickets purchased through STEP can only be resold through STEP somehow (has to be a way to make that happen)

Doesn't solve the problem, but is actually doable this year?

Maybe the way to 'lock' tickets into STEP is to make it a hybrid of sorts. A "if you want a paper ticket, say so by June 15th. Paper tickets have your name on them and are non-transferable. If you want to be able to resell your ticket through STEP all the way to the end past June 15th, your ticket becomes a will-call ticket."
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:52 am

apologize for what.. not going against values that many have largely embraced as the core of our community? i.e. "radical-inclusion" or "immediacy" ?

(and no, radical-inclusion doesn't mean "every body who wants to can come.." safety/permit restrictions trumps any high minded rhetoric here.. )


i guess some of the community would have been happier if the longtime burners got first dibs before newcomers from the beginning (in a mad first come first serve rush)

i guess some of the community would have been happier if every ticket was offered to them first 'until supplies last' (even if that meant excluding newcomers)

i guess some of the community would have been happier if every person who burned before who wanted a ticket would get one (the newcomers dont matter, and the BLM permit restrictions dont matter)

i guess some of the community is hoping for some things that the LLC just cannot give them (apologies for things largely out of their control, such as the BLM permit restrictions, and the increase in newcomer interest)

i guess some of the community doesn't want a fair distribution of tickets (or they see it as unfair if the longtime burners dont get them, which isnt really what fairness is at all in this situation (
fair: Without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage
))

I do not see how everyone could have been pleased in this situation... I do not see any room for making everyone happy. It seems obvious to me that a very vocal part of the community thinks they should have been given first dibs.. The likely less vocal new comers being shut out doesn't seem like much of a concern to many so long as 'i got mine!!' was guaranteed for these vocal people. The pressure this vocal group has put on the LLC has confirmed the old phrase about the squeaky wheel getting the grease (even if it wasn't required).

I do not see the recent attempts by the LLC to appease or placate this group as much as an indication that they believe they have done something wrong (and what could they have done better to please everyone, besides going against the core values we as a community have largely embraced and ignoring the BLM permits?) so much as trying to calm down a very vocal part of the community that the LLC didnt think would be so very vocal about not getting what they wanted.

This situation seems a lot to me like the screaming freaking out kid at the toy store or the grocery store.. He wants a package of cookies or a toy.. He is freaking out, mom knows he doesn't deserve it because they've already laid down these rules.. But in hopes of not embarrassing herself in public and annoying the shit out of everyone in the store she caves in, goes against the rules the family agreed to, against her core values.. And she buys the kid the cookies, she buys the kid the toy.. Just to shut him up..

It seems like the LLC is going to do what it can to get the kid to shut up, by giving it its cookies, or its toy.. But don't think for a second that this is going to make everyone happy because we know that there is just too much demand this year to do that.

Many people will be without a ticket in 2012. Many people would have been without a ticket no matter what method they used to sell the tickets.. It might not have been vocal members of the community without a ticket losing out on going.. But likely many thousands of newcomers.. Whichever the case is.. Someone is gonna be missing out..

I just hope the abandoning of core values that our community has largely come to embrace (radical-inclusion and immediacy) doesn't encourage the kid to scream and cry every time he see's something he wants in a store because he knows mommy will give it to him.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby Elorrum » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:13 am

"We believe we need two weeks to let the dust settle to see how much redistribution happens."
huh? how is redistribution at this point measurable?
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby mournlight » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:15 am

Although I agree that there was no way to make everyone happy and some simply would end up without tickets, it does seem that a nod to existing theme camps would be good for all of BM. Does anyone know off the top of their head how many theme camps there are? Even if the extraordinarily high number of 500 theme camps at 50 tickets each was set aside, there would still be 25000 tickets left. Our camp would only have needed about 12, other camps might need 60, but I bet they could have sold a core number to camps and art projects and still had 25,000 or more left for everyone. Those camps would have included a number of newbies, too. Ours does, every year, as a natural state of flux.

Best to Marian and her team. I hope it works out well. I believe they do want it to be successful. No point in continuing to bitch about problems - let's just find solutions for next time.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:17 am

By calling people on the phone from various theme camps.. there is no other way. The LLC already mentions making these kind of phone calls to measure the temperature of the situation, They'll do it again over the next two weeks.


Many people havnt 'reported in' yet.. For example.. the people in my camp, we don't have a tally of all those people with, without or with extras yet.. I think in 2 weeks we probably will. While some camps already knew the numbers on day one... Don't forget theres over 650+ theme camps at burning man.. We have seen at most 50-100 of them register their success with tickets here on eplaya.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:19 am

mournlight wrote: Does anyone know off the top of their head how many theme camps there are? Even if the extraordinarily high number of 500 theme camps at 50 tickets each was set aside, there would still be 25000 tickets left.



in 2010 there were over 700 theme camps/villages:

In 2010, we placed about 700 camps altogether.

Of these, 626 were theme camps, 39 were villages, and 35 were other camps (art support camps, for example). We declined placement for about 30 theme camps.

http://afterburn.burningman.com/10/comm ... ement.html
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby VultureChow » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:23 am

I read it as we screwed up, but don't worry, we'll find a way to take care of the important theme camps.

If anything, it confirms what I've been thinking about virgins like myself. I'm lucky to have a ticket, but in general virgins will be at a massive disadvantage this year simply because so many tickets will go through the secondary market in which veterans and those connected to existing burning social groups will have a significant advantage.

I don't really have a problem with this, and hope it takes away some of the animosity towards virgins that seems to be building this year.

That said, they won't be doing the lottery next year. It will be named tickets. At least I hope so. The only other solution seems to be a more curated ticket distribution where a certain number are distributed or reserved for favored camps. That's how BM dies.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:27 am

named tickets pinned to people with giant needles that cannot be removed or not, many people wont be going to burning man in 2013 as well.

it might even be you.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby playa hanjin » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:34 am

lemur wrote:i guess some of the community would have been happier if the longtime burners got first dibs before newcomers from the beginning (in a mad first come first serve rush)


I would have been happier if I had gotten an even chance to get my single ticket. Unlike what happened, in which I was placed in a lottery where I had a smaller chance than the folks who had armies of helpers registering for more tix than they needed.

But that would have required the org to invest in a decent e-ticketing system, however, something they seen unwilling to do.

The event took months to sell out last year. So maybe it would have sold out in days, instead. So what?

If you don't like that plan, there were at least a dozen other good, workable plans that solved for all variables available in the period of post-sales 2011 to pre-sale 2012. All the org had to do was listen.

And I am aware of STEP and the March 28 10k tix. I will probably get in virtual line with all the rest of those schmucks without tix at this point. I might even get a ticket. You know what I'm going to do if I get a ticket? I'm going to sell it at below face value. A small attempt to karmically balance all those people who will be fleecing others for all they can afford.

Listen, it's cool. It's not like I *need* to go to Burning Man -- at this point, it's mostly a big party, and to the extent it's more than a big party, I want those elements in my daily life, not condensed into a single week.

This whole fiasco has just demonstrated to me that the org is over their head. They don't have the leadership and management chops to run this event competently anymore. And, since I personally get quite peeved at incompetence, its best for me to not be involved with the drama they have (and will continue) to create.

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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:37 am

playa hanjin wrote:
lemur wrote:i guess some of the community would have been happier if the longtime burners got first dibs before newcomers from the beginning (in a mad first come first serve rush)


I would have been happier if I had gotten an even chance to get my single ticket. Unlike what happened, in which I was placed in a lottery where I had a smaller chance than the folks who had armies of helpers registering for more tix than they needed.




So, then you WERE given a chance, just like everyone else who entered the lottery..

edit: but you wanted it tilted in your favor? I think the recent info coming from the LLC proves that the idea of people tilting it heavily in their favor with armies of helpers has largely been shown to not be the case.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby gibson_ » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:41 am

Stop with this "demand just increased!" nonsense. No, demand did not jump 300% in one year. Scalpers gamed the system, how this isn't completely obvious to some of you is depressing.

As much a we'd love to believe thy the world is filled with people who believe in "gift economics" and are the types to venture off to the desert for a week for the sole reason of giving things away to people (hi, we built this insane music venue, invited some huge acts, bought a bunch of propane for flame throwers and oh, it's all free, come check it out!), it's not.

The world contains a whole bunch of "I can game this system in my favor and make a bunch of money". That is what happened. This should be obvious, we all predicted this when the lottery was announced.

Non. Transferable. Tickets. It's getting cliche to hear because it is so blindingly obvious.
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Re: Maid Marian talks about ticket issues on the Burning Blo

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:44 am

from the blog post that this post is about:

Following phone conversations with major theme camp and art group organizers, we determined that only 20%-25% of the key people needed to bring those projects to the playa had received notifications for tickets. A number of people also told us they’d used multiple credit cards and asked friends to register for them as a way to increase their chances of getting tickets. Those who received more tickets than they need said they are considering how to redistribute them.


Even with the armies of people who were 'gaming' the system with multiple entires were not able to overcome the massive overdemand for tickets..

You werent given a lesser chance of being selected because of these armies (which only ended up with a 25% success rate.) you were likely given a lesser chance of being selected because of massive overdemand in general.
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