Shitcan and start over !?!

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Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby nocturnal_steve » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:27 am

Any reasons, legal or otherwise the BORG can't toss out the results of the lottery, refund credit card charges and start over ?

One ticket per person tied to ID / ID required at the gate seems like the best solution, with resale only via STEP at face if you can't make it.

The objections raised about the logistics involved seem trite compared to the current fiasco. Any in-house cost incurred to set up the system (say $20.00 per ticket) seem trite compared to ticket cost. Finally I offer my services to co-ordinate / participate in the large number of volunteers it will take to check ID at the gate.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby gibson_ » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:31 am

> legal or otherwise

Yes, it would be a completely jerk-faced thing to do. Imagine all of the people who _did_ get tickets and how excited they are right now. Don't take that away from them by revoking their ticket.

This year they screwed up, that sucks. Don't do it again in the future.

Taking _all_ of the tickets back would make things worse.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby nocturnal_steve » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:08 am

Understandable. Actually I have access to a ticket ( I lost but a friend won two...) but am totally put off by the whole scene and may choose not to go anyway.

There is a graph somewhere that shows attendance vs. available tickets, and it's not like 100,000 people wanted to attend this and last year vying for 50K tickets (or whatever the numbers are). It's more like 55K wanted to attend vying for 50K tickets. So most legitimate people who want to go would wind up with tickets anyway, and scalpers and even those heartfelt burners who have had non-attendee friends apply for and get tickets, and are simply holding them with intent to sell at face value later would be thwarted. Nothing terribly wrong with the later group except it is really hurting groups and theme camps who were planning large scale projects, mutant vehicles etc.

This seems like a great solution ... (see below). Credit card holders must now register and show valid ID matching their card at the gate, and will be permitted entry for themselves and one other (no ID needed). Or a note and copy of ID from their mom if they went that route because they didn't have a credit card (: " Please allow Johnny to attend....."

Good solution:
http://signon.org/sign/burning-man-lott ... by=2291295
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby AntiM » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:14 am

Talk to the heads of the registered theme camps/art installations, get an estimate of how many tickets they need to run their installation. Cancel the Open Sale and allot those tickets to registered camps and art installations as equitably as possible. Will camp heads pad their requests? Probably, but they would be warned that if everyone pads, no one receives. Having been lashed by the lottery, they may listen. These tickets would only be transferable to one individual, will call, or must be returned to the BMORG. Cannot be sold, just like EA passes, or the camp loses their entire allotment.
Harsh to those virgins and independents who didn't get tickets, but at this point, life is not fair.

Follow up by seeing who adapts and make their camps work, flexibility and creativity being key. Same with art projects. Yes, this is subjective, and needs a metric fuckton of thought and fine tuning.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby fastsnail » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:27 am

just ask winners to upload a photo and a enter a name for each ticket they won, before feb 22. After that they lose their tickets.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby lemur » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:57 am

what do we do if we scrap it all, shitcan it.. and then impose a system of name based photo based tickets and the demand is still something like 80,000 persons wanting to go ?
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby mdmf007 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:05 am

Theres no perfect system for getting tickets for BMAN into people hands. The simple truth is more people want to go than there are tickets.

Even if there was an awesome system that attached a person to a ticket and NO SCLAPERS had a single ticket to resale we still wouldnot have enough. Then what? Legacy burners of over 10 years get priority? How about people that really deserve to go? who quantifies this and deciphers all the data?

Now there is a recall effort http://signon.org/sign/burning-man-lott ... by=2325764 i dont see it happening, who knows.

FYI, I also got the no luck email - waiting for STEP to do its thing.

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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby remi » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:11 am

fastsnail wrote:just ask winners to upload a photo and a enter a name for each ticket they won, before feb 22. After that they lose their tickets.


I agree with this ^^

Don't agree with shitcanning entire thing. Lets say each cc got 2 tickets.. give them 1 week to tie the tickets to name and the tickets become untransferable unless through step.

Just to make everyone happy, display the number of tickets available after the week period(i.e. everyons ticket that didn't get register to a name will be added back into the march draw.) That means every person with a ticket intending to go will still be happy, and that will free up thousands of tickets (from scalpers and from procrastinators that didn't attach name to ticket in the week,) so everyone without a ticket should feel much more confident.. unless they just like to complain all the time.

EDIT: As a ticket holder, I wouldn't mind having to attach my ID and my gf's ID to the two tickets I have. I would be happy to do that if I knew it meant more tickets going into the hand of burners without supporting scalpers.
Last edited by remi on Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby lemur » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:14 am

mdmf007 wrote:Theres no perfect system for getting tickets for BMAN into people hands. The simple truth is more people want to go than there are tickets.

Even if there was an awesome system that attached a person to a ticket and NO SCLAPERS had a single ticket to resale we still wouldnot have enough. Then what? Legacy burners of over 10 years get priority? How about people that really deserve to go? who quantifies this and deciphers all the data?

Now there is a recall effort http://signon.org/sign/burning-man-lott ... by=2325764 i dont see it happening, who knows.

FYI, I also got the no luck email - waiting for STEP to do its thing.

MDMF



indeed...


the way im judging the community temperature in some corners right now.. it seems the only way for this to not be a "fiasco" is to fuck over what appears to be MANY newcomers and institute a system of preferential treatment for the old boys club..

BURNING MAN 2012: "THE CLASS OF 2011 1st YEAR REUNION"

doesnt sound like a good theme to me....
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby CapnJoe » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:22 am

Quite a few NEWBIES ok, and a HELL OF A BUNCH of scalpers and people looking to make some extra cash from desperate burners looking for a way to get to the playa!
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby RevDusty » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:24 am

I did not get a ticket.

But I'm not in favor of a recall, it's not at all fair to those folks who got one and intend on going (virgin or not).

But, linking a name to each ticket is the way to go. Either that, or back to the pool of available tickets. Names have to be submitted in two weeks (allows for people who are unavailable to email for awhile).

After the two week window, the only way to transfer a ticket is through STEP. What if you want to transfer to a "friend"? There is a way to ensure that this is done w/o scalping, but I'm not gonna post the details here, suffice to say, it can be done.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby alt12 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:31 am

AntiM wrote:Will camp heads pad their requests?


I know I do every year for early arrival passes!
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby alt12 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:34 am

lemur wrote:
the way im judging the community temperature in some corners right now.. it seems the only way for this to not be a "fiasco" is to fuck over what appears to be MANY newcomers and institute a system of preferential treatment for the old boys club..

BURNING MAN 2012: "THE CLASS OF 2011 1st YEAR REUNION"

doesnt sound like a good theme to me....



Yes our community entitlement is showing..... Nothing like scarcity to bring out the worst in everyone (myself included... I have ranted more on eplaya in these last 3 days that I have probably in my entire life)..... Personally I have nothing against virgins per se.... Almost all of my best friends were virgins at some point as was I.
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Re: Shitcan and start over !?!

Postby 1durphul » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:51 am

I do not believe the BMorg can throw out the ticket results because they took some stupid missteps.

They charged credit cards immediately, which created a contract between the buyer and the seller. They can't refund without huge fees (we're talking a lot of money being refunded to CCs). If they had announced the results and waited just 24 hours to charge they could have seen the shit storm before executing the transaction. But that wasn't the case, and hindsight is 20/20.

As far as I'm concerned BM 2012 isn't happening. I remember in 2008 or 2009 we had bad weather and just a few camps pulled up stakes on the esplanade on Saturday instead of the normal Sunday/Monday and how empty the esplanade felt with giant dark gaps in it on burn night. I imagine this will be a year with many dark gaps, as camps that apply and get placed find out they just can't field their camp and don't bother to show. Depending on whether or not the BMorg sticks their fingers in their ear and screams "we can't hear you!!!" , or they actually do what they should have done in the first place and require resale through the BMorg website at face value, and ticket to ID with reprint or reassignment of ticket to new IDs when sold through the website, they could possibly fix things for BM 2013.

The ridiculous reasoning the BORG has posted so far behind not allowing ticket assignment doesn't even pass the smell test. It is truly a matter of being lazy and/or too incompetent to implement. The reasoning has been "but people want to gift some third person who they don't actually know." Well to that I say "There are ACTUAL people who want to go and can't get a ticket. Fuck the anonymous third person that may not actually exist."
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