What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

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What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Perhaps BMORG or somebody else could secure the Pyramid Lake or Permaburn location for an alternate location for displaced burners. Symbiosis will be held at Pyramid Lake, so the tribe who owns that location might be interested in a portion of the entry fees from a Burning Man overflow event.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby tinydancr » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:48 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:Perhaps BMORG or somebody else could secure the Pyramid Lake or Permaburn location for an alternate location for displaced burners. Symbiosis will be held at Pyramid Lake, so the tribe who owns that location might be interested in a portion of the entry fees from a Burning Man overflow event.

the desert is a helluva big place. can't they just include more streets in teh city?? is it a staffing/safety issue? whats the deal?
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:50 pm

I've heard here that it's the logistics of getting people to and from the playa.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby danibel » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:51 pm

This is already in place. It's called regionals. And I am sure there will be lots of orphan burns all over the place like there was last year.

Perhaps this whole ticket thing is a sign that the regionals are the wave of the future. Last year one of my campmates and I had an interesting discussion about regionals and how it will eventually have to morph that way. There are simply too many people that want to attend.

I am hoping for a bad weather year this year. The past two years (especially last year) were just too mild. I wasn't in a single white out in '11. Not one.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby danibel » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:53 pm

tinydancr wrote:the desert is a helluva big place. can't they just include more streets in teh city?? is it a staffing/safety issue? whats the deal?



The desert is huge. Very expansive and beautiful. The road in and out - not so much. It's a tight two lane road with no pull offs. I spent 5 hours in exodus last year. More people means more cars, more traffic, more accidents....
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:54 pm

Yes regionals, but I'd like to see one of the regionals that is held August 27 - September 3 get a bit overblown like the original Burning Man festival. I think Permaburn might be the one big party to rally behind and get some theme camps and free bars in place.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:02 pm

tinydancr wrote:the desert is a helluva big place. can't they just include more streets in teh city?? is it a staffing/safety issue? whats the deal?


The Bureau of Land Management caps the number of people that can attend every year due to access (the above mentioned one lane in, one lane out for 50,000+ people), due to the fragility of the environment (why do you think Leave No Trace is pushed so hard), due to trying to keep that many people safe, and other factors. The LLC negotiates for the numbers, but they don't get to make the final decision.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:08 pm

Zeke Chaparral wrote:Yes regionals, but I'd like to see one of the regionals that is held August 27 - September 3 get a bit overblown like the original Burning Man festival. I think Permaburn might be the one big party to rally behind and get some theme camps and free bars in place.


So start organizing it. Seriously. Everyone has suggestions that they want other people to act on, I'm waiting to see someone actually start creating something for others to follow.

Maybe your first year is 20 people- can you wait for it to build (remember how small the Burn was 25 years ago)?

Are you willing to deal with the local government as your event grows?

Most importantly, do you have the desire to actually create a new space and see where it grows?

If you answered yes, you're on your way. If you become a recognized regional you even have access to the Burning Man network- personally I would love to see a Northern CA regional, but my answers to those questions aren't all "yes"...
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby trilobyte » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:11 pm

There are other campouts and festivals growing at a rapid pace, as well as some awesome regionals. Do go support the regionals. Not just the one closest to you, but try and find one far away! One of these days, I'd like to go to KiwiBurn (New Zealand), Nowhere (euroburner event in western Spain), and the regionals for Hawaii (how can that not be awesome) and Ireland (they do something at a castle if I remember correctly).

I believe that last year (as well as other years before it), some cities/groups have mini-burns for those who stay at home (and don't forget Burn2, the virtual regional burn that goes down in Second Life a month or so after Burning Man).

I don't know that I'd want to advocate Burning Man organizing multiple festivals until they've got the infrastructure and resources to do it. Contrary to what some may think, they're pretty much working year round on just this one event. Maybe someday once the Project gets up to speed there's a plan to scale out, but for now I think they've got their hands full with this.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:14 pm

Like I said elsewhere, the Renaissance Faire in California had a good model for this: the N Cal faire was held in Sept and the S Cal faire was held in May or June. Shortened drive time for visitors and allowed some to hit both.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby alt12 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:16 pm

Eric wrote:
Zeke Chaparral wrote:Yes regionals, but I'd like to see one of the regionals that is held August 27 - September 3 get a bit overblown like the original Burning Man festival. I think Permaburn might be the one big party to rally behind and get some theme camps and free bars in place.


So start organizing it. Seriously. Everyone has suggestions that they want other people to act on, I'm waiting to see someone actually start creating something for others to follow.



people have already.... its called 4th of juplaya....
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:19 pm

Juplaya is held in 4th of July. That's cool, but I was thinking of an alternative to Camp Envy on Sept. 27 to Aug. 3.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby The CO » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:20 pm

Eric wrote:So start organizing it. Seriously. Everyone has suggestions that they want other people to act on, I'm waiting to see someone actually start creating something for others to follow.



C'mon Eric, it's way easier to armchair manage someone else's event. Creating their own means they would have to grasp the logistics involved.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby CornMan » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:23 pm

In OP, I said that BMORG or someone else could organize this thing. I did not expressly state that this someone else would not include me. I was just starting a conversation about this idea and see if it takes off.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:08 pm

If we ALL created our own events, there would be nobody to attend them. Face it, most of us are going to be passive consumers of a few creative, hard-working individuals. No stage, no artist.

So search for a regional that you feel moved to support. And why in Blog's name does it have to be Labor Day? A little flexibility and adaptiveness goes a long way.

That said, yes, the BMorg could put a little more effort into helping out the regionals. But don't wait for it.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby Ruleryak » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:50 pm

Lots of folks are going to throw their own regionals during the burn this year. At the moment, that's the plan for the 90%+ of my camp without tickets. If we stop worrying, take a year off from going Home, and focus our burn energy on our own event we'll see each other and have a great time regardless. We're from all over the country so it's till an adventure for all of us and I can't wait for it to come together.

I noticed a few times on here folks mentioning Permaburn as an option. After exodus last year I went to Permaburn and it's a journey I should have skipped. For one thing, it's insanely hard to access. The road from the highway to Permaburn is far far far worse than anyone on their site lets on. It's full of very large rocks, washouts, and to travel the 5 or so miles from the road to their zone takes well over an hour and a half. Large vehicles even longer. For another thing, they caused a massive brush fire last year and probably aren't going to be allowed to hold larger gatherings up there anymore.

The whole concept was that they would buy year-round-accessible land and actually build a settlement similar to a permanent Burning Man. The reality is that the property is zoned for one permanent structure and one well. There are no utilities and no company will run them up there. People that did get on board brought a ton of their gear up there and had it ruined by rednecks because no one stays with it and it sits alone in a field on a mountain most of the time. The roadworking equipment they mention having purchased on their site has been sitting dead for years and as of last year is now full of bullet holes, like the art cars that were parked there.

When I went to Permaburn I got regaled with tales of how "gangster" the dudes there were and how great they were for having successfully snuck into Burning Man before coming out to Permaburn. The fire department was still there, all volunteers spending their day making sure the multi acre fire these gangsters started didn't re-ignite in the day's high winds. Now they were some nice folks. Had a chat and a drink with them before heading back off of the mountain.

Overall I think it's a great idea that went badly and the good-hearted folks behind it are giving up on caring. I wouldn't recommend that particular spillover party if you can avoid it. Too much drama for the effort it'd take to get there and stay there.

Oh yeah, last thing - the place is dusty as hell like burning man, but it's all dirt and there's alot more of it. Much harder to clean, much nastier to breath, etc.
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Re: What is really needed: An overflow Burning Man location

Postby Ruleryak » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:11 pm

Ugly Dougly wrote:If we ALL created our own events, there would be nobody to attend them. Face it, most of us are going to be passive consumers of a few creative, hard-working individuals. No stage, no artist.

So search for a regional that you feel moved to support. And why in Blog's name does it have to be Labor Day? A little flexibility and adaptiveness goes a long way.

That said, yes, the BMorg could put a little more effort into helping out the regionals. But don't wait for it.


I've run a small Burnal Equinox regional in Montana for the last two years - biggest turnout we had was 20 people :mrgreen: It was an amazingly good time anyway. The Montana Burn may or may not coincide with Burning Man's dates - depends on what we find and when. When it's a little more certain I'm going to do my best to get others planning regionals in Idaho/Montana/Wyoming/Dakotas to maybe consider combining their efforts with us and making ours a bit bigger. The ones I've worked to put on were just for folks in my own town, but already the proposed regional for unticketed burners from my camp (which has been as big as 90 people) and folks they know or that I've spoken to through eplaya is going to blow our local shindigs out of the water.

Alot of us are redirecting our fuel/ticket/travel budgets to equipment to make our party worthwhile. Already have fire spinners, dj's half a dozen generators, shade, etc and it's only been a day of planning.

So there's my two cents - taking the Burner Work Ethic and applying it to something other than Burning Man for a change. I'll do my best to go next year but I really don't enjoy the stress and uncertainty and my personal choice is to avoid it. While I know I would definitely find a ticket in the next two or three months if I committed, I'm not willing to worry in the meantime - and that's a LOT of meantime.

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