Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Dr Dilemma » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:31 pm

stinkyfoot wrote:
Eric wrote:We know that 1/3 of people who requested tickets got tickets.
The average ticket request was 1.7 per person.
And there were 40,000 tickets available.

If x= people who applied for tickets
and If y= people who got tickets

Then y*1.7=40,000 so y=23,529

so the number of people who got tickets is 23,529

and y/x= 0.33

so x=23,529/0.33

then solve for x=71,300

so that means that roughly 71,300 people wanted to go to Burning Man in January and requested tickets in the lottery.


The biggest problem with the logic here is the assumption that ALL the tickets went to people that wanted to go. We don't know that. The 1.7 figure just tells us that most people asked for 2 tickets. If the success rate was 30% then there were 133,000 or so requests for tickets. The ~70,000 figure is just the number of individual orders made for tickets of any quantity which does NOT tell you how many individuals wanted to go. It doesn't take into account folks that were buying tickets for themselves and another person, you've factored them out by dividing by 1.7. It doesn't take into account people who were waiting till later to buy tickets. I know we had at least 4 members of our camp last year that heard us talking about burning man and decided to go in the summer and bought tickets then. So, the 71,300 number would mean 71,300 individuals ordered tickets intending to go AND on average 58% of them ordered an extra they didn't need for themselves AND absolutely everyone that would want to go to the burn this year ordered early. Of course, you would be right to point out that we also have to factor in people that ordered WAY more than they needed. I can only speak to my group, but no one in our group ordered more tickets than they needed. I have less exact figures from other groups, because I KNOW the count for our group, I could beat the tickets out of them if I had to, but we aren't seeing any camps that have any quantities of extras. What does that mean? It means that the 71,300 figure is the absolute lowest number of people that would be mathematically possible to derive from the numbers we have that wanted to go to the burn, ordered early, and when 2 tickets were ordered the second was extra. So assuming a negligible amount of tickets went to scalpers, that would mean somewhere between 71,300 as an absolutely lowest and 133,000 absolutely highest amount of people wanted to get tickets 9 months early for an event that has had 53,963 attendees last year and the largest growth rate any year of 5%. That would mean that somewhere between 30% and 240% more people than attended last year wanted to buy a ticket for the event NOW. Again, these figures are all with the assumption that only an insignificant amount of tickets were bought speculatively. Which, if that were really the case, you see what an absurd amount of growth that would imply. Whether it is scalpers or people hedging their bets, it should be pretty clear that amount of requests for tickets is far greater than what we could possibly imagine actually want to go.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Max Callahan » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:01 pm

KestrelSF wrote: So assuming a negligible amount of tickets went to scalpers, that would mean somewhere between 71,300 as an absolutely lowest and 133,000 absolutely highest amount of people wanted to get tickets 9 months early for an event that has had 53,963 attendees last year and the largest growth rate any year of 5%.


5%? what?

2006 38989 attendees
2007 47366 attendees
Thats 21.5% growth, and recent.

In 97 10k people, 98 15k, 99 23k, thats 50% growth each year!
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby gyre » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:34 pm

What's the ratio of unused tickets each year?
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:47 pm

KestrelSF wrote:The biggest problem with the logic here is the assumption that ALL the tickets went to people that wanted to go.


Nowhere in the numbers does it assume any such thing- they're guesses on the requests & how many people got tickets, not if they're attending the event or not.

We know for fact that 40,000 tickets were sold, we know rumor has it that only about 1/3 of requests were filled, we know that roughly 1.7 tickets were requested per order, we know for fact (based on Marian's interview today) that demand was at least double what the LLC expected (but we don't know how many they expected)- that is ALL that we know.

The numbers SF & I hashed out roughly cover all those facts (and the rumor)- they do not guess how many of those tickets were bought by scalpers, hoarders, birgins, veterans, etc. They do not remotely try to guess how many of those tickets will show up on the playa in the hands of the person who purchased them.

All our numbers show is that a much smaller amount of entries than most people are assuming could have resulted in the current situation. I have no doubt my numbers are incorrect- that's why I call them "guesses", not fact. I also understand that "1.7 tickets per request" is an average, but by being 1.7 and not 1.5 it shows that more than half the requests were for 2 tickets; without knowing figures the best we can do is use the averages.

There is no knowing exact details without them being released by the LLC, which is highly unlikely. I just want to show that there doesn't need to be 120,000+ requests for tickets to get us where we are now. No where close to that number is needed.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby lemur » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:58 pm

i requested 29,318 tickets using my botnet army and stolen credit cards..

i had two weeks to program the proper stuff into the botnet to make ordering as easy as pressing 'ENTER'

so, add 29,318 (this is an exact number) into your calculations.

i was awarded 11,319 tickets, which i plan to sell once they are all shipped to the PO boxes around the country and forwarded to my 'safe' houses.. which will send them to me en masse.

so.. if youre looking for a ticket this august, just talk to me!!
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby BeachBum » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:17 pm

Eric,

I want to apologize and say congrats. Given Andie's well written blog post today, it looks like your guess of 120,000 tickets requested was closer to the actual number than my reasoned estimate of 150,000+ tickets requested estimated by breaking down the tiers by percentages. I thought i was more correct earlier today based on Maid Marion's radio interview that theme camps only got 1/4 of the tickets they need, 3/4 of the tickets went somewhere else. Also, in the comments after today's blog post, other smaller camps gave numbers of tickets that they obtained were much closer to the numbers that they needed for their members, which lends more credence to the 120,000 number. It looks like the numbers of ticket requests, after the know scalpers were kicked out of the queue as best as could be, were $390 - ~22K; $320 - ~30K; $240 - ~70K.

(BTW, I forgot to add in the unknown number of people who were kicked out of the queue in the effort to eliminate know scalpers. So neither the the 120,000 - 150,000+ guesses/estimates included those.)

Now, if the people who said the lottery would be a success; or we don't know what will happen with the lottery so you can't either; or all 40,000 tickets have been/will be sold, so the lottery is a success; still saying that if you put in a bid for one price, you were eligible for tickets at a lower price; ... ; and ridiculing people who said otherwise would apologize for those incredibly wrong statements, that would be cool.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:41 pm

BeachBum wrote:Now, if the people who said the lottery would be a success; or we don't know what will happen with the lottery so you can't either; or all 40,000 tickets have been/will be sold, so the lottery is a success; still saying that if you put in a bid for one price, you were eligible for tickets at a lower price; ... ; and ridiculing people who said otherwise would apologize for those incredibly wrong statements, that would be cool.


BeachBum, thank you, and I apologize as well.

We've all made mistakes in judging how this would- and will- play out, both before the event and in the debates after. Hopefully the LLC will make careful decisions about how to proceed so that the community can stop tearing itself apart.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby moonwatcher » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:45 pm

Eric wrote:
KestrelSF wrote:There is no knowing exact details without them being released by the LLC, which is highly unlikely. I just want to show that there doesn't need to be 120,000+ requests for tickets to get us where we are now. No where close to that number is needed.


Actually, according to the JRS #12 (just out), your estimate of 120,000 is right on. It's just under that.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Eric » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:58 pm

moonwatcher wrote:
Eric wrote:
KestrelSF wrote:There is no knowing exact details without them being released by the LLC, which is highly unlikely. I just want to show that there doesn't need to be 120,000+ requests for tickets to get us where we are now. No where close to that number is needed.


Actually, according to the JRS #12 (just out), your estimate of 120,000 is right on. It's just under that.


Ugh- my quote should have read "doesn't need to be 120,000+ individual entries for tickets"- I was trying to show that around 70,000 entries could create 120,000 requests (eg: way less people needed to place entries than some of the numbers flying around).

It's all fun with math anyway since we don't have hard numbers, but it's nice that my math got me in the ballpark!
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby pink » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:21 am

I guessed at 120,000 early on in this debate, and I'm not a math whiz. I can't remember the formula I used now, but I did feel vindicated when I listened to the interview and read the blog this evening.

But even in my own ticketing experience this is what happened: Got ticket from virgin burner who bought two (though maybe he could convince his wife to go, or someone else..) and I entered the lottery to buy two, one for myself and one for someone that hasn't been able to attend the last three years. And me, burner in 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (In 2007 I had a chance to go to Germany for a month, and really missed not burning). So there is the perfect storm in a nutshell.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby fabigothangel » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:36 am

FOR ANTIM:
when I read all the concern of the long time burners with camps that are in the habit to take care of the fellow burners and they are really concern on how they gonna make the cut this year I feel like crying!!!!
I feel for you guys and girls! I'm in the same boat... a camp of 250 and a huge amount of peeps without tickets.
But when I hear this guy saying that not all the happy people with ticket go to eplaya and coplain I wanna scream!!!!
THERE ARE NOT FUCKING HAPPY PEOPLE THIS YEAR !!!!!! I HOPE ATIM YOU HEARD THE SCREAM ! And please do some soul searching and introspective and see and let us see:
WHY ARE YOU TALKING THIS WAY? You are belittleing and minimize the HUMONGUS problem that we are having this year!
For all the others sorry I had to get it out of my system.
The lottery pull is a DISASTER and for BM leadership I'd like to tell you: it's getting harder and harder every year to keep up the genuine Burning man spirit!
Fabiola very long time burner! :mrgreen:
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby AntiM » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:26 am

fabigothangel wrote:FOR ANTIM:
when I read all the concern of the long time burners with camps that are in the habit to take care of the fellow burners and they are really concern on how they gonna make the cut this year I feel like crying!!!!
I feel for you guys and girls! I'm in the same boat... a camp of 250 and a huge amount of peeps without tickets.
But when I hear this guy saying that not all the happy people with ticket go to eplaya and coplain I wanna scream!!!!
THERE ARE NOT FUCKING HAPPY PEOPLE THIS YEAR !!!!!! I HOPE ATIM YOU HEARD THE SCREAM ! And please do some soul searching and introspective and see and let us see:
WHY ARE YOU TALKING THIS WAY? You are belittleing and minimize the HUMONGUS problem that we are having this year!
For all the others sorry I had to get it out of my system.
The lottery pull is a DISASTER and for BM leadership I'd like to tell you: it's getting harder and harder every year to keep up the genuine Burning man spirit!
Fabiola very long time burner! :mrgreen:



Er, what? I am also a long time burner, saddened my friends do not have tickets. I'm trying to be as positive as possible, and rational, and even a little funny because if you can't laugh, all you can do is cry. Hysteria and rumor and speculation are very unhelpful. If you take that for being uncaring, YOU are reading more into my words than exist. And I'm a very nice lady who gives away art. Small camp, happy camp.

Sorry your big theme camp can't make it. But not one of those people will fall over dead because they can't go to Burning Man. IT IS A VACATION, NOT THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF LIFE. I'm sure you'll miss your friends, I know I'll miss mine who can't go. But we won't die. And for those of us who do make it to the playa, we'll be fine without whatever it is your camp does.

Thanks for the "burnier than thou" update. I'm not belittling the ticket situation at this point, I'm belittling your post. If you can't separate the eplaya from the playa, I'm sad for you. I hope you find something meaningful to do this summer which brings you great joy, even if it isn't Burning Man.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby BBadger » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:50 am

fabigothangel wrote:it's getting harder and harder every year to keep up the genuine Burning man spirit!


dysfunction.jpg


Really, it just doesn't seem you understand that "genuine Burning Man spirit" because it really doesn't require a ticket to Burning Man to have it.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby fabigothangel » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Foe Atim and Badger,
you can stay as positive as you want... writing down all your positive points of view.
Since BM became corporate we have seen a constant deterioration and commercialism of the original Bm spirit of the end of the 80's.
My long time friends that have always planned and cherish this time of the year when they can get HOME are without tickets!
BM IT"S NOT A VACATION IT'S A WAY OF CONNECTING AND REACHING OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHARE SAME IDEALS AND WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENT IN THIS WORLD! THE DEFAULT WORLD AS WE CALL IT!... I STAND FOR ALL THE BM VETERANS AND BIRGINS THAT SAVED MONEY AND PLANNED FOR YEARS TO GO AND CANNOT ATTEND THIS YEAR!
MY "DISFUNCTION" COMES FROM THE ALL HIPPITY UPPITY PEOPLE THAT DON"T SEE WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM THIS YEAR!
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Dr Dilemma » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:36 pm

AntiM wrote:Er, what? I am also a long time burner, saddened my friends do not have tickets. I'm trying to be as positive as possible, and rational, and even a little funny because if you can't laugh, all you can do is cry. Hysteria and rumor and speculation are very unhelpful. If you take that for being uncaring, YOU are reading more into my words than exist. And I'm a very nice lady who gives away art. Small camp, happy camp.

Sorry your big theme camp can't make it. But not one of those people will fall over dead because they can't go to Burning Man. IT IS A VACATION, NOT THE BE ALL AND END ALL OF LIFE. I'm sure you'll miss your friends, I know I'll miss mine who can't go. But we won't die. And for those of us who do make it to the playa, we'll be fine without whatever it is your camp does.

Thanks for the "burnier than thou" update. I'm not belittling the ticket situation at this point, I'm belittling your post. If you can't separate the eplaya from the playa, I'm sad for you. I hope you find something meaningful to do this summer which brings you great joy, even if it isn't Burning Man.


Good points here, AntiM. I said to a some of my camp mates the other night that "if the worst problem I have to deal with all year is how do I get burning man tickets" then my life must be pretty good right now! This really is a "first world problem". Don't get me wrong, I think burning man is an amazing experience. But you do have to contrast being bummed that you can't make it out for a party / spiritual retreat / whateveritistoyou in the dessert to shit that 99% of the rest of the world is worried about right now. We should all take a moment to count our blessings that we have the time and resources to be arguing about $400 tickets!

Also we need to acknowledge that folks at the BMorg have been putting a lot of work on this and have honest and fair intentions, even if we might disagree on speculating where tickets went or how to fix.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:47 pm

fabigothangel wrote:Foe Atim and Badger,
you can stay as positive as you want... writing down all your positive points of view.
Since BM became corporate we have seen a constant deterioration and commercialism of the original Bm spirit of the end of the 80's.
My long time friends that have always planned and cherish this time of the year when they can get HOME are without tickets!
BM IT"S NOT A VACATION IT'S A WAY OF CONNECTING AND REACHING OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHARE SAME IDEALS AND WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENT IN THIS WORLD! THE DEFAULT WORLD AS WE CALL IT!... I STAND FOR ALL THE BM VETERANS AND BIRGINS THAT SAVED MONEY AND PLANNED FOR YEARS TO GO AND CANNOT ATTEND THIS YEAR!
MY "DISFUNCTION" COMES FROM THE ALL HIPPITY UPPITY PEOPLE THAT DON"T SEE WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM THIS YEAR!
Fabiola

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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Savannah » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:24 pm

KestrelSF wrote:Good points here, AntiM. I said to a some of my camp mates the other night that "if the worst problem I have to deal with all year is how do I get burning man tickets" then my life must be pretty good right now! This really is a "first world problem". Don't get me wrong, I think burning man is an amazing experience. But you do have to contrast being bummed that you can't make it out for a party / spiritual retreat / whateveritistoyou in the dessert to shit that 99% of the rest of the world is worried about right now. We should all take a moment to count our blessings that we have the time and resources to be arguing about $400 tickets!

Also we need to acknowledge that folks at the BMorg have been putting a lot of work on this and have honest and fair intentions, even if we might disagree on speculating where tickets went or how to fix.


I think so, too. The Org probably didn't just pluck this strategy out of the air, even if it hasn't worked out the way they hoped or planned.

One year ago, the Org knew that the speed of the ticket sales was the fastest it had ever been, & they started predicting the sell-out multiple times in the Jack Rabbit Speaks newsletter. Lemur once counted up the JRS warnings and I believe the figure he came up with was at least 4 newsletter warnings between January and July, not including other signs, like 1) the announcement on the Main Site itself (major), and more minor: 2) the withdrawal of the last tickets from the ticket outlets before to the sellout, or 3) the many warnings that the volunteers received. (I was warned by both Playa Info AND ESD, multiple times.)

So--I wager that the Org started trying to figure out what they would do for 2012 even before the July 2011 ticket sell-out, and made their best attempt based on a number of factors over more time than is known. They also announced STEP in November, but clearly had to have designed it before then in the hopes of Burner-controlled surplus. Even a modest percentage of Burners scalping is better than 100% of scalpers scalping. (Scalpers lack mercy and sentimentality, and they're not selling to friends!)

When folks have criticized the design--even in fairness or correctness--I don't think it has been sufficiently recognized how much time had been spent, and how difficult the process is to stop once in motion. So the lack of last-minute changes has been seen as irresponsiveness and recklessness, rather than an impossibility to reverse course after months of planning.

Perhaps the Org has perhaps under-reported how much consideration went into their choices, and the fact that they couldn't turn on a dime or stop the presses after a certain point. Perhaps to do so was useless. Maybe it would have unnerved people--or maybe it would have been perceived as defensiveness.

Anyway . . . part of the emotion out there right now (other than sadness and anger over scarcity) is due to the fact that people think the Org wasn't listening, didn't care, and could have made a bunch of changes really fast in response to outcry. And all I'm saying is, I personally don't think those 3 things are true.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby fabigothangel » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:32 pm

For Crypofishist,
English is my 3rd language [edited]! I know 5 languages how many languages do you know ?
I can spell this word for you [edited]! Is it the right spelling?
You caught me on a wrong day !
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Galaxo Magic » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:42 pm

lemur wrote:i requested 29,318 tickets using my botnet army and stolen credit cards..

i had two weeks to program the proper stuff into the botnet to make ordering as easy as pressing 'ENTER'

so, add 29,318 (this is an exact number) into your calculations.

i was awarded 11,319 tickets, which i plan to sell once they are all shipped to the PO boxes around the country and forwarded to my 'safe' houses.. which will send them to me en masse.

so.. if youre looking for a ticket this august, just talk to me!!

lemur, that is awesome! So it looks like you got a ticket! My botnet was in the shop that week......
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby wraith » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:42 pm

Savannah wrote:
KestrelSF wrote:Good points here, AntiM. I said to a some of my camp mates the other night that "if the worst problem I have to deal with all year is how do I get burning man tickets" then my life must be pretty good right now! This really is a "first world problem". Don't get me wrong, I think burning man is an amazing experience. But you do have to contrast being bummed that you can't make it out for a party / spiritual retreat / whateveritistoyou in the dessert to shit that 99% of the rest of the world is worried about right now. We should all take a moment to count our blessings that we have the time and resources to be arguing about $400 tickets!

Also we need to acknowledge that folks at the BMorg have been putting a lot of work on this and have honest and fair intentions, even if we might disagree on speculating where tickets went or how to fix.


I think so, too. The Org probably didn't just pluck this strategy out of the air, even if it hasn't worked out the way they hoped or planned.

One year ago, the Org knew that the speed of the ticket sales was the fastest it had ever been, & they started predicting the sell-out multiple times in the Jack Rabbit Speaks newsletter. Lemur once counted up the JRS warnings and I believe the figure he came up with was at least 4 newsletter warnings between January and July, not including other signs, like 1) the announcement on the Main Site itself (major), and more minor: 2) the withdrawal of the last tickets from the ticket outlets before to the sellout, or 3) the many warnings that the volunteers received. (I was warned by both Playa Info AND ESD, multiple times.)

So--I wager that the Org started trying to figure out what they would do for 2012 even before the July 2011 ticket sell-out, and made their best attempt based on a number of factors over more time than is known. They also announced STEP in November, but clearly had to have designed it before then in the hopes of Burner-controlled surplus. Even a modest percentage of Burners scalping is better than 100% of scalpers scalping. (Scalpers lack mercy and sentimentality, and they're not selling to friends!)

When folks have criticized the design--even in fairness or correctness--I don't think it has been sufficiently recognized how much time had been spent, and how difficult the process is to stop once in motion. So the lack of last-minute changes has been seen as irresponsiveness and recklessness, rather than an impossibility to reverse course after months of planning.

Perhaps the Org has perhaps under-reported how much consideration went into their choices, and the fact that they couldn't turn on a dime or stop the presses after a certain point. Perhaps to do so was useless. Maybe it would have unnerved people--or maybe it would have been perceived as defensiveness.

Anyway . . . part of the emotion out there right now (other than sadness and anger over scarcity) is due to the fact that people think the Org wasn't listening, didn't care, and could have made a bunch of changes really fast in response to outcry. And all I'm saying is, I personally don't think those 3 things are true.


Respectfully, Savannah, it doesn't much matter how much time and energy the wonderful folks at the top put in when they designed what is essentially a scalper's wet dream despite multiple people pointing out issues well in advance. You can't polish a turd, no matter how hard you try.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby Savannah » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:46 pm

I'm saying that once the plan was revealed, it was probably difficult if not impossible to reverse.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby wraith » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:49 pm

I'd disagree pretty strongly. Up until they actually took money, we hadn't hit a point of no return. It would have meant some chaos and bitching, but how could that be any worse than the sheer level of poison that this whole fiasco has dumped into the community? People would get over the sale being pushed back a month while things were reworked a lot better than 'maybe some tickets will show up in the secondary market around June!'
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby mdmf007 » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:20 pm

No matter the plan there would have been a way to work the system, flaws and bottlenecks. As pointed out there is simply more demand than tickets. Not all those that want a ticket are going to get one - no matter how "fair" or unbiased the system.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby lemur » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:27 pm

BUT MDMF007!!! any ticket system that doesnt guarantee a ticket to ME PERSONALLY (and my camp) is a failure

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the truth hurts doesnt it burning man organization!! you failed us!!!!!
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby AntiM » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:20 am

fabigothangel wrote:Foe Atim and Badger,
you can stay as positive as you want... writing down all your positive points of view.
Since BM became corporate we have seen a constant deterioration and commercialism of the original Bm spirit of the end of the 80's.
My long time friends that have always planned and cherish this time of the year when they can get HOME are without tickets!
BM IT"S NOT A VACATION IT'S A WAY OF CONNECTING AND REACHING OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHARE SAME IDEALS AND WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENT IN THIS WORLD! THE DEFAULT WORLD AS WE CALL IT!... I STAND FOR ALL THE BM VETERANS AND BIRGINS THAT SAVED MONEY AND PLANNED FOR YEARS TO GO AND CANNOT ATTEND THIS YEAR!
MY "DISFUNCTION" COMES FROM THE ALL HIPPITY UPPITY PEOPLE THAT DON"T SEE WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM THIS YEAR!
Fabiola



There are other places and other ways to connect. It most certainly is a vacation, it is not a seminar nor a retreat. People who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and feed a family certainly don't have the luxury of attending. That makes it optional, that makes it a vacation.

It is not corporate commercialism which brought us to the point where not everyone can go, it is our own fault for being so wonderful and for making the event so attractive. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH TICKETS. Even if there were no scalpers, there would not be enough tickets. Period. Yes, a major problem, but one which cannot be solved by yelling at strangers on the internet and name calling. Alternatives must spring up, from regional and orphan burns, to other venues such as Desert Rocks or even the Rainbow Gatherings. The federal government owns our city's land, therefore we cannot simply grow and grow outside of the permit stipulations. It simply cannot be otherwise unless you pitch in and create a new abundance in some other place and time.

Even private land and a private event would be subject to the laws of the state and the federal government. We live in the land of the free but give consent to be so governed by residing here.
we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby BBadger » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:34 am

fabigothangel wrote:Foe Atim and Badger,
you can stay as positive as you want... writing down all your positive points of view.
Since BM became corporate we have seen a constant deterioration and commercialism of the original Bm spirit of the end of the 80's.
My long time friends that have always planned and cherish this time of the year when they can get HOME are without tickets!
BM IT"S NOT A VACATION IT'S A WAY OF CONNECTING AND REACHING OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHARE SAME IDEALS AND WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENT IN THIS WORLD! THE DEFAULT WORLD AS WE CALL IT!...


What? And I'm the "hippity uppity" person?

BM is, ultimately, a vacation. It's different than other vacations, sure. Yeah, there's something "magical" in the air there, but ultimately, the good feelings you get from BM come from what you make of it, and who you're with--and that doesn't require BM as a facilitator. What is stopping you from reaching out to other people with the same ideals all you want out in "this world"? If you can only do it at BM, or only meet such people in such an environment, then BM is truly a vacation--and those vibes are there only because of the "contrived environment" created by the event. It's like feeling the "magic" of Disneyworld because Walt Disney purposely isolated it from the rest of the world.

Also, I find it pretty hypocritical that you're on one hand damning the "deterioration" and "commercialism" of Burning Man in its current form, and yet lamenting so much that you are unable to visit it in its current form. It doesn't sound like you really know what BM was like back then anymore than somebody who thinks the world was great back in the days of knights and princesses.

If you want to go back to the "pre-commercialization" era of the 1980s, it's easier than ever. Just visit regional burns, which are pretty much the same size and intimacy as BM ever was during those times, cost less, never run out of tickets, and are pretty entertaining. What more, you can travel around to multiple regional burns and have the good vibes there multiple times. Some people I know help operate and attend those regional burns years on end and have never gone to the "big event" of Burning Man themselves. Think yourself lucky you have.

Yes, there is a problem there are not enough tickets to satisfy demand, but really no more so than any finite resource. Think about what really "made" your burns in the previous years. Was it the art? Was it your campmates? Was it camping? Do those things really need Burning Man or is it just because there's a lot of all those things at once? BM is an awesome place, like going to some amazing carnival. However, ultimately, what created the greatest memories were the experiences with my friends. Yeah, it's great to be at a place like that with friends (which is why we continue to go), but without them I'd just sell my ticket and stay home. That would be my main complaint about Burning Man: that camps/friends are broken up and may not meet up this year, which I think is the main complaint. Beyond that, however, it's like missing a ticket to a concert: that's just how it is. Burning Man will be great and always will be great; whether you'll be there to witness it with friends is the real question.

So ask yourself, what is your real problem with the sell-out, and see if that problem cannot be remedied in other ways.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby AntiM » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:51 am

The regionals have been selling out for years now. I know our Utah burn approaches its cap frequently.
we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby socks » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:10 am

Its shameful on what i have been seeing on the eplaya.Burner v.s. Burner.The have's v.s. The have not's.The blame falls at the feet of BM.org for this Coup Fatal they have dealt to our burner community.So when we see tickets in mass show up for sale by the scalpers in June i am very sure BM.org will have another spin on that too.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby lemur » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:57 am

socks wrote:Its shameful on what i have been seeing on the eplaya.Burner v.s. Burner.The have's v.s. The have not's.The blame falls at the feet of BM.org for this Coup Fatal they have dealt to our burner community.So when we see tickets in mass show up for sale by the scalpers in June i am very sure BM.org will have another spin on that too.


apparently youre also free from spinning things.. clearly, the "BM.org" has a monopoly on spin.
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Re: Do the math: over 50% of tickets went to scalpers

Postby SageV » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:28 pm

Some official and unofficial regionals have been selling out lately and we know those people aren't scalpers, but new folk who have been hearing about us through social media. That doesn't mean they participate in Burner networks, that just means they see an event invite, a video, or a post from a friend about what cool thing they are doing this weekend.

The assertion "50% of tickets went to scalpers" has as much data behind it as the statement "50% of the tickets went to people never known to complain on eplaya or facebook."
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