The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

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The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby lhorthy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:18 pm

With many Burning Man veterans without tickets, most theme camps will be without key personel. This means many of the traditional camps will disappear and the groups with the energy and ideas will no longer be able to create all the wonderful stuff that we have come to expect at the Burn.

Less than a third of the people I know that usually attend got tickets which says that that around 120,000 tickets were applied for in the lottery. There do not seem to be any spare tickets out there yet so I doubt that there will be many available through the STEP program - I would guess not more that a couple of thousand. So it seems that we will have a lot of virgins this year or the scalpers will make a killing.

Unless there suddenly a bunch of tickets made available, my guess is that this year's Burn will be completely unremarkable, just a big campsite in the desert, few interesting theme camps, art cars or installations. :( :( :(
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby inog » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:20 pm

Or ... it could be the best ever!
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby lhorthy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:24 pm

inog wrote:Or ... it could be the best ever!


I guess you got tickets inog
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby darcitananda » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Burning Man is continuously evolving and reinventing itself. To be honest, I think this shake-up is a good thing. New alliances will be made. Big camps (some of them) have gotten cliquey, downright rude and unwelcoming even, and maybe having smaller camps will encourage more participation and interaction between camps. Or the smaller groups can merge together to create something completely new, instead of the big camps just rehashing the same stuff they do every year. I'm not sure why people think it's all going to be virgins and tourists this year, but even if it were a higher percentage of virgins than normal, virgins are often some of the most enthusiastic people on the Playa. I really think this is our chance to re-involve ourselves with people outside our normal peer group. Plus instead of saying, oh __________ is playing at Distrikt at 6pm, wouldn't it be awesome to randomly encounter _________ in a tiny bar somewhere. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic because I got tickets, but I'm looking forward to seeing what takes shape this time. I also think if people are worried about it being boring, they should do something NOT BORING. You get out of it what you put into it, as my dad would say.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Brianna_Beauty413 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:58 pm

darcitananda wrote:Burning Man is continuously evolving and reinventing itself. To be honest, I think this shake-up is a good thing. New alliances will be made. Big camps (some of them) have gotten cliquey, downright rude and unwelcoming even, and maybe having smaller camps will encourage more participation and interaction between camps. Or the smaller groups can merge together to create something completely new, instead of the big camps just rehashing the same stuff they do every year. I'm not sure why people think it's all going to be virgins and tourists this year, but even if it were a higher percentage of virgins than normal, virgins are often some of the most enthusiastic people on the Playa. I really think this is our chance to re-involve ourselves with people outside our normal peer group. Plus instead of saying, oh __________ is playing at Distrikt at 6pm, wouldn't it be awesome to randomly encounter _________ in a tiny bar somewhere. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic because I got tickets, but I'm looking forward to seeing what takes shape this time. I also think if people are worried about it being boring, they should do something NOT BORING. You get out of it what you put into it, as my dad would say.



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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby AntiM » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:04 pm

Yes! I avoid the big camps, I feel overwhelmed or unwanted most of the time. I adore the small camps. So burgins, do a pocket bar, or a suitcase martini lounge on a cart. Paint nipples, decorate hats, paint toes, tell fortunes, play some music, sing, lead some naked yoga, spin the Wheel of Pork ( a fun favorite from last year)! It is all good!
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby socks » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:40 pm

They should change the name to scalping man
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby trilobyte » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:01 pm

Yes, the event will change in many ways. Some predict it'll ruin the event and be an unremarkable or lackluster year (like they did last year), but it could also very well turn out to be the best year yet.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby svenj » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:13 pm

darcitananda wrote:...Maybe I'm being overly optimistic because I got tickets, but I'm looking forward to seeing what takes shape this time. I also think if people are worried about it being boring, they should do something NOT BORING. You get out of it what you put into it, as my dad would say...


Great quote from your dad, having not gotten a ticket and therefore being unable to put anything into it, I guess it's fitting that I'll get nothing out of it... :cry:
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby 5280MeV » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:25 pm

I am really starting to wonder - maybe the scalpers and hoarders really are just boogeymen for the most part.

There are something like 313,000 people liking Burning Man on Facebook, and don't count me in that - I am not on Facebook.

The economy has picked up (slightly) this year. Americans are working their way through the housing glut. More people who wanted to go in 2011 may now be able to in 2012.

From what I can tell, large festivals have been increasingly becoming a 'thing' in the past few years. I hear people talk about 'festival season'.

The Burning man population has increased by 50% or more before (1997-98, and 1998-99).

If the growth rate is as big as 1998-99, that means that there are 83,000 burners, old and new, all trying to make their way to BRC. Even a BLM permit extension to 70,000 could not handle that sort of growth.

This could be an explosion. The ticket situation could just be a red herring.

I think 2012 is going to be a challenge and an adventure, for both the experienced and the inexperienced. Both on the playa and off the playa. We are all at the beginning of it, whatever it is.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:36 pm

AND GOOD RIDDANCE.

My hope is that this fine lottery will clean out the people who despair and give up too easily, the people who blame burgins for their ticket woes, the self-entitled folk, the people who can't or won't adapt. Maybe it'll even have lasting effects, sparing us their presence in the future as well, leaving more tickets for the rest. Perhaps this lottery separates the wheat from the chaff--even among those who did not win tickets.

It's going to be a great year. There will be huge camps, small camps, different people, different art, lots of people who feel lucky to attend, not entitled. Most camps will be resourceful in obtaining more tickets, just as they are resourceful in bringing civilization to a scrap of dry lake bed. Some camps will downsize too, but the total population will grow. The city is never the same anyway.

On my own end, we have 2 of about 5 tickets we need. We'll get the remaining tickets without worry, and not from scalpers either. It's not if, but when. It was always that way: we planned for the case of receiving zero tickets through the lottery. We were lucky to obtain two, but did not bet on luck. The playa won't find a way, we will.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Donna Matrix » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:43 pm

darcitananda wrote:Burning Man is continuously evolving and reinventing itself. To be honest, I think this shake-up is a good thing. New alliances will be made. Big camps (some of them) have gotten cliquey, downright rude and unwelcoming even, and maybe having smaller camps will encourage more participation and interaction between camps. Or the smaller groups can merge together to create something completely new, instead of the big camps just rehashing the same stuff they do every year. I'm not sure why people think it's all going to be virgins and tourists this year, but even if it were a higher percentage of virgins than normal, virgins are often some of the most enthusiastic people on the Playa. I really think this is our chance to re-involve ourselves with people outside our normal peer group. Plus instead of saying, oh __________ is playing at Distrikt at 6pm, wouldn't it be awesome to randomly encounter _________ in a tiny bar somewhere. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic because I got tickets, but I'm looking forward to seeing what takes shape this time. I also think if people are worried about it being boring, they should do something NOT BORING. You get out of it what you put into it, as my dad would say.


yeah............ you'll get together, plan, and then next year BANG 70% of your new camp won't get tickets.

Wake the fuck up.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Donna Matrix » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:45 pm

5280MeV wrote:I am really starting to wonder - maybe the scalpers and hoarders really are just boogeymen for the most part.

There are something like 313,000 people liking Burning Man on Facebook, and don't count me in that - I am not on Facebook.

The economy has picked up (slightly) this year. Americans are working their way through the housing glut. More people who wanted to go in 2011 may now be able to in 2012.

From what I can tell, large festivals have been increasingly becoming a 'thing' in the past few years. I hear people talk about 'festival season'.

The Burning man population has increased by 50% or more before (1997-98, and 1998-99).

If the growth rate is as big as 1998-99, that means that there are 83,000 burners, old and new, all trying to make their way to BRC. Even a BLM permit extension to 70,000 could not handle that sort of growth.

This could be an explosion. The ticket situation could just be a red herring.

I think 2012 is going to be a challenge and an adventure, for both the experienced and the inexperienced. Both on the playa and off the playa. We are all at the beginning of it, whatever it is.


LIES! 25,500 people like BM on Facebook
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Donna Matrix » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:47 pm

BBadger wrote:AND GOOD RIDDANCE.

My hope is that this fine lottery will clean out the people who despair and give up too easily, the people who blame burgins for their ticket woes, the self-entitled folk, the people who can't or won't adapt. Maybe it'll even have lasting effects, sparing us their presence in the future as well, leaving more tickets for the rest. Perhaps this lottery separates the wheat from the chaff--even among those who did not win tickets.

It's going to be a great year. There will be huge camps, small camps, different people, different art, lots of people who feel lucky to attend, not entitled. Most camps will be resourceful in obtaining more tickets, just as they are resourceful in bringing civilization to a scrap of dry lake bed. Some camps will downsize too, but the total population will grow. The city is never the same anyway.

On my own end, we have 2 of about 5 tickets we need. We'll get the remaining tickets without worry, and not from scalpers either. It's not if, but when. It was always that way: we planned for the case of receiving zero tickets through the lottery. We were lucky to obtain two, but did not bet on luck. The playa won't find a way, we will.


You just don't get it, do you? Running a camp is hard and it takes a lot of people. Gee, youse can go camping in the Black Rock any old time. It will probably be very similar without the big theme camps.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby ZeeMox » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:48 pm

I agree whole-heartedly with the thread starter. Can't have a community-driven event if you can't even rely on the community to show up. Sounds like BM 2012 is going to be hot and boring to me, but I'd love to be wrong.

I have my ticket, btw, so this isn't my rejected angst speaking.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby YouBlowDeadBear » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:09 pm

[quote="darcitananda"]wouldn't it be awesome to randomly encounter _________ in a tiny bar somewhere.[/quote]

While I love this line and it makes me think of all the ridiculous times in camp bars (Including randomly meeting and getting hamstered w/ the Red Elvises.), it's not the big art cars or art pieces I'm worried about. It's the medium-sized/smaller camps and projects I'm worried about. The ones where missing 3 to 5 people from the group will kill it (My personal favorites.). :? Who knows...?
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby BBadger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:11 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:yeah............ you'll get together, plan, and then next year BANG 70% of your new camp won't get tickets.

Wake the fuck up.


Yeah, in February. Everything hinges on getting those damn tickets in early February. The real fact of the matter: after a month or two of trades you're up to 80% having tickets. Then comes the open sale, and you can buy four tickets each as needed from the 1/5th of all tickets sold available. Or at least that's how I'm planning it.

Donna Matrix wrote:You just don't get it, do you? Running a camp is hard and it takes a lot of people. Gee, youse can go camping in the Black Rock any old time. It will probably be very similar without the big theme camps.


Nah, I think I do get it. You see, my designs are deep: they stretch over months at a time. They don't hinge on a single sale-event being the first and last deal-breaker.

When I see 30% of ticket fulfillment in camps I don't jump to despair. I jump to the conclusion that tickets are just temporarily scattered among many people and will find their way back into camps. After all, why should the underlying final distribution of tickets over the years change simply because of a initial distribution changed? Those tickets are scattered because the lottery imposed a "fair drawing" of tickets. However, post-lottery, you now have a greater advantage over the average registrant because you have the full resources of your theme camp at your disposal: collective purchase power, multiple people able to obtain tickets from sources, etc. If you're not leveraging these resources to your advantage, maybe it's time to restructure your camp's organization.

Also, nothing is preventing you from planning your camp as usual and letting the tickets come to you as needed. Work doesn't stop because the initial ticket purchase didn't work out, nor does it begin simply because you have a confirmation number.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby darcitananda » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:20 pm

yeah............ you'll get together, plan, and then next year BANG 70% of your new camp won't get tickets.

Wake the fuck up.


That doesn't apply to my situation, however I can see how that is a possibility for some camps and especially art projects. I hope the artists are not discouraged from completing their projects without a ticket (I feel most true artists would do their thang anyway). I hope that situations such as an unprecedented lack of tickets for a particular camp would encourage creative problem solving, reaching out to other similar groups, or trying something completely new. I'm kinda repeating myself, sorry.

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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby playacarl » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:22 pm

5280MeV wrote:The Burning man population has increased by 50% or more before (1997-98, and 1998-99).



Yeah but the last few (10) years have had a MUCH slower growth rate. It basically took 10 years to double again, and now it's doing half again in a year? That seems way outside probability.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:24 pm

dekajed wrote:"A lot of us burners are freelance, self employed day playing contractor types. A lot of us don't know if we can afford to go at even the cheapest price until mid year. This system as effectually canceled out artists and performers on a large scale. BMAN was, for me, a lot about meeting people. Like minded or not it was a great cross section of humanity. This policy, I believe, has greatly diminished the diversity and random ass fuckery."

Please stop posting this over and over. Once is enough.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby juanita » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:32 pm

FYI... As of this very moment, Burning Man on Facebook has 313,528 "likes."

https://www.facebook.com/BurningMan
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Brianna_Beauty413 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:40 pm

juanita wrote:FYI... As of this very moment, Burning Man on Facebook has 313,528 "likes."

https://www.facebook.com/BurningMan


now it's 313,534!!

I know :) I'm one of them hehe
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby RedHeaven » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:58 pm

5280MeV wrote:I am really starting to wonder - maybe the scalpers and hoarders really are just boogeymen for the most part.

There are something like 313,000 people liking Burning Man on Facebook, and don't count me in that - I am not on Facebook.

The economy has picked up (slightly) this year. Americans are working their way through the housing glut. More people who wanted to go in 2011 may now be able to in 2012.

From what I can tell, large festivals have been increasingly becoming a 'thing' in the past few years. I hear people talk about 'festival season'.

The Burning man population has increased by 50% or more before (1997-98, and 1998-99).

If the growth rate is as big as 1998-99, that means that there are 83,000 burners, old and new, all trying to make their way to BRC. Even a BLM permit extension to 70,000 could not handle that sort of growth.

This could be an explosion. The ticket situation could just be a red herring.

I think 2012 is going to be a challenge and an adventure, for both the experienced and the inexperienced. Both on the playa and off the playa. We are all at the beginning of it, whatever it is.



TOTALLY like TOTALLY my thoughts too!! Well said. Well Said. It feels oddly comforting reading your universal words. Holy 2012, bitches, welcome to the party....wherever it may be. I cant believe how many music festivals are blowing up too in this economy. Its insane! People want to Freeeeak Ouuuut...
On a small scale, I blame Time Magazine (like Wired in the 90s) and that DARN DR SEUSS :mrgreen: oh yeah and that stupid Edward Sharpe song hehehe
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Not Here » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:04 pm

By cutting out so many vets, The Borg® has ensured that 2012® will be The Most Virginaltrustafariansparkleponytastic® Burn® yet!
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Quaneshia Honeycooch » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:14 pm

BEST

Whine-fest

EVAH!!!!!!!!

Keep it up folks. Your indignity is killing me.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Valgar » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:23 pm

Donna Matrix wrote:
yeah............ you'll get together, plan, and then next year BANG 70% of your new camp won't get tickets.

Wake the fuck up.


Hey Donna!

Yup, I'm starting to cringe as I see my DG/TD campmates starting to chime in that they were denied.

Going to be an interesting year indeed.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Not Here » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:28 pm

Val and Donna - agreed. Only 12% of the people in our camp got tickets. We start planning NOW. By the time June rolls around, we're in full-on build mode. I can't say we'll be pursuing our build with much vigor if 1 in 8 of our expected campers will be with us.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby lhorthy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:34 pm

darcitananda wrote:That doesn't apply to my situation, however I can see how that is a possibility for some camps and especially art projects. I hope the artists are not discouraged from completing their projects without a ticket (I feel most true artists would do their thang anyway).


Artists may complete their art this year, but they will be unlikely to do it again if they have no idea if they will receive a ticket.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby Not Here » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:59 pm

Our campmate Patty had the best insight so far: Fertility 2.0. Genetic engineering in the form of a new ticketing system engineered to flush the gene pool.

How many veterans do you know who got tickets? In fact, most of the people I know who run huge camps DIDN'T get tickets. If the event is cut to 30% old-timers, it's 70% new blood. No expectations, no grousing about diversion from the "olden days."

The End Of Burning Man as we know it? You bet. The Borg has become Monsanto.
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Re: The End of Burning Man as we Know it.

Postby A Jester » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:22 pm

5280MeV wrote:I am really starting to wonder - maybe the scalpers and hoarders really are just boogeymen for the most part.

There are something like 313,000 people liking Burning Man on Facebook, and don't count me in that - I am not on Facebook.

The economy has picked up (slightly) this year. Americans are working their way through the housing glut. More people who wanted to go in 2011 may now be able to in 2012.

From what I can tell, large festivals have been increasingly becoming a 'thing' in the past few years. I hear people talk about 'festival season'.

The Burning man population has increased by 50% or more before (1997-98, and 1998-99).

If the growth rate is as big as 1998-99, that means that there are 83,000 burners, old and new, all trying to make their way to BRC. Even a BLM permit extension to 70,000 could not handle that sort of growth.

This could be an explosion. The ticket situation could just be a red herring.

I think 2012 is going to be a challenge and an adventure, for both the experienced and the inexperienced. Both on the playa and off the playa. We are all at the beginning of it, whatever it is.


Well put.
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