Lets start talking about how to fix this

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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby ZaphodBurner » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:37 am

inog wrote:Step back and realize that this process put the vast majority of the tickets in the hands of people in the community and likely kept a lot of tickets out of the hands of scalpers.


Big fucking deal. What difference does it make to me if NONE OF THE PEOPLE IN MY THEME CAMP GOT TICKETS IN THIS LOTTERY AND DON'T KNOW WHEN OR HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET TICKETS, and yet we're trying to plan construction for our camp with the understanding that many of us might not even get to go.

But, whatever. It must suck to be a scalper. The scalpers must -really- be pissed off now.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby domitron » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:22 am

For those of you crying "Increase the size of the city!" Have you all forgotten 2007 already? They DID increase the size of the city - by 60% in fact! It was HUGE, and then in 2008 they shrunk it back because everyone complained that it was too big. I for one liked the bigger city (even though that year I never did make it to the trash fence), but really the size of the city is irrelevant to the real problem here. The city could be tripled without much more impact on the playa (keep in mind the normal event takes up less than 5% of the total surface of the playa), but the real issue is the road situation. So what happens when last year's 12-hour traffic jam (something I can personally attest to) turns into a 36-hour jam after they increase the event's attendance limit to 80K? I'll tell you what happens - death by heat stroke in several vehicles. It wouldn't be a pretty site, folks, and big media would jump on that like flies on shit. The event would be shut down so fast your head would spin. You can't have people in their fucking cars for days in the middle of the desert. It's dangerous and it ain't going to fly.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:47 am

I dunno about heat stroke. When we were in line we merely had to be in the shade of the roof of the vehicle and it was nice and cool. Humidity is the enemy and fortunately the playa is usually not infected with it.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby rchapin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:02 am

Not sure how you would fix it this late - horse is already out of the gate. But there definitely needs to be some damage control done.

And I didn't think the system was broke, but I would like to see those who contribute to the community (theme camps, musicians, artists, etc) get priority when it comes to tickets.

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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:18 am

rchapin wrote:Not sure how you would fix it this late - horse is already out of the gate. But there definitely needs to be some damage control done.

And I didn't think the system was broke, but I would like to see those who contribute to the community (theme camps, musicians, artists, etc) get priority when it comes to tickets.


What constitutes "contributes"? The people organizing big theme camps? The people who bring giant swings? The people bringing big art? The people who brought art you never saw? The people who brought back art you saw the previous year? The people who give out pee funnels? The people who MOOPed their neighbors' camp after they drove off? The person on the corner who will give you a Man hand stamp? The person who brought the generator for your camp? The person on the MV who plugged in his electric acoustic guitar and sang for everyone? The driver of that MV? The doorman of the MV who prevented people from getting crushed under the wheels when they jumped out of the MV? The people who gave out ice cream? The person who washed your hands and gave you lotion? The guy who gave darktards lights? The person with the glittery coat that amused you? The person who built the MV that amused you and played you music? The owners of the bar down the street that served drinks? The ranger who watched the audience, not the Man burning? The person who left a couch in the middle of the playa for you to watch the sunset from? The person who helped escort you home when you were shitfaced?

All those people above--and more--I encountered or participated as last year. What is the objective measure of "contribution" that deserves a ticket? More importantly, do you taint your gifting with the expectation of a ticket?
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby rankbadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:25 am

How about participatory tickets and non participatory tickets,

Theme camps request tickets required, these are issued at a marginally cheaper price and vetted sensibly (a small liquor stand with a sound system isn't going to need 50 tickets) a huge art / sound camp might.

After that's apportioned the remaining tickets are auctioned, lotteried, first come first served whatever.

Point is there is no perfect solution to this, it was inevitable it would grow in size (BM is TINY in terms of numbers of attendees compared to most conventional festivals round the world) and it will continue to grow. The road precludes the capacity growing much more so some people are going to lose out, it makes sense for that to be a spectator regardless of whether they are a virgin or not. I've seen kick ass virgin camps many times, number of previous attendances shouldn't be a factor, contribution should.

And of course there is no definition of contribution, every attendee contributes something by just being there, but again, there is no perfect solution and ultimately if there are no theme camps or art cars then it will just end up as loads of people walking about the playa swapping flashy lights and hand stamps.

Oh and the guys who are already ranting that none of their theme camp got a ticket etc, I am in a similar position. So be it, the fat lady has not yet sung. You are clearly resourceful and committed so keep trying to work it out and spare eplaya the attitude. It's no use being a nice guy burner for a couple of weeks a year and showing your true colours when things don't go your way.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby Bloodfeud » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:42 am

I think for next year all tickets should be will call with resale ONLY through STEP, keep the scalpers out!!!
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby BBadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:22 am

rankbadger wrote:How about participatory tickets and non participatory tickets,

Theme camps request tickets required, these are issued at a marginally cheaper price and vetted sensibly (a small liquor stand with a sound system isn't going to need 50 tickets) a huge art / sound camp might.


Yeah, fuck those small liquor stands. Why should their shit get equal access right? Those small fries are insignificant.

No.

Burning Man becomes a big theme camp-preferred festival? For theme camps, by theme camps? No thanks. Even in the default world we have anti-trust measures to prevent such corrupted systems from destroying the fabric of societies.

Point is there is no perfect solution to this, it was inevitable it would grow in size (BM is TINY in terms of numbers of attendees compared to most conventional festivals round the world) and it will continue to grow. The road precludes the capacity growing much more so some people are going to lose out, it makes sense for that to be a spectator regardless of whether they are a virgin or not. I've seen kick ass virgin camps many times, number of previous attendances shouldn't be a factor, contribution should.


I always hate seeing that term "spectator" tossed around. It's usually used in the context of someone who thinks that they are more worthy Burners because they happen to "contribute" in their own self-judged way. More often, it is tossed out when a "contributor" get the shaft by some unnamed "spectator" that gets the blame.

Fuck those people. I hope they never return, "contributor" or not. They're not contributing from the heart, they're exchanging for their ego, their reputation, their own importance.

They're commodifying their contribution.

If such things are to be rewarded, I'd rather see Burning Man get permanently cancelled--the experiment ended--than see it degenerate into such a debased state.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby rankbadger » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:33 am

I'm not getting into an argument with you bbadger I have a feeling you are going to come back negatively regardless of what I or anyone else says.

It's a problem without a perfect solution.

My main point really is that the negative/abusive/hostile chat to BMORG and each other getting widely banded around is not excusable by frustration.

There are a great deal of people showing their true colours here and on forums such as Facebook.

It's sad to see.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby zorro sings » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:35 am

I got tickets.But then again I have always been lucky when it comes to getting tickets.We have been setting up camp a long time at The Project and have watched the machinations of the Ruling Bodies deal with what has become a very large event.From our somewhat jaded view the"non-transferable"option is dead in the water.Ain't gonna happen with this crew.
Coupled with what seem reasonable population limits you are always going to have an under-supply of tickets.I would like someone to explain to me why a"Dutch Auction"of tickets would not work.If it was good enough for Googles IPO why not BM?
Next year start the ticket price,using low Stubhub price this year, at $620.Doubt if rush for these opening tickets would crash any servers.Next day $610 and so onThere could easily be a counter of"tickets sold"to let you know how many are left each day and whether or not you should make a move to buy.Cost certainty as well as ticket security is up to how much you think it's worth.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:41 am

rankbadger wrote:How about participatory tickets and non participatory tickets,

Theme camps request tickets required, these are issued at a marginally cheaper price and vetted sensibly (a small liquor stand with a sound system isn't going to need 50 tickets) a huge art / sound camp might.

After that's apportioned the remaining tickets are auctioned, lotteried, first come first served whatever.

Point is there is no perfect solution to this, it was inevitable it would grow in size (BM is TINY in terms of numbers of attendees compared to most conventional festivals round the world) and it will continue to grow. The road precludes the capacity growing much more so some people are going to lose out, it makes sense for that to be a spectator regardless of whether they are a virgin or not. I've seen kick ass virgin camps many times, number of previous attendances shouldn't be a factor, contribution should.

And of course there is no definition of contribution, every attendee contributes something by just being there, but again, there is no perfect solution and ultimately if there are no theme camps or art cars then it will just end up as loads of people walking about the playa swapping flashy lights and hand stamps.

Oh and the guys who are already ranting that none of their theme camp got a ticket etc, I am in a similar position. So be it, the fat lady has not yet sung. You are clearly resourceful and committed so keep trying to work it out and spare eplaya the attitude. It's no use being a nice guy burner for a couple of weeks a year and showing your true colours when things don't go your way.


And I am perfectly fine with the latter option.

I dislike the big camps. I can count my rides on art cars over 11 years on one hand. I haven't been this excited in years.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby lemur » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:46 am

lots of 'my 68 person camp only got 12 tickets' 'out of 160 people in my camp only 31 got tickets' 'out of 29 people i camp with only 2 got tickets' 'out of 45 people in our camp 5 got tickets'


...maybe big camps arent sustainable anymore.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:57 am

lemur wrote:lots of 'my 68 person camp only got 12 tickets' 'out of 160 people in my camp only 31 got tickets' 'out of 29 people i camp with only 2 got tickets' 'out of 45 people in our camp 5 got tickets'


...maybe big camps arent sustainable anymore.


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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby Raymaker » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:09 am

AntiM wrote:
lemur wrote:lots of 'my 68 person camp only got 12 tickets' 'out of 160 people in my camp only 31 got tickets' 'out of 29 people i camp with only 2 got tickets' 'out of 45 people in our camp 5 got tickets'


...maybe big camps arent sustainable anymore.


ding ding ding


That doesn't work, in our two man camp neither of us got tickets :P
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby copilot602 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:22 am

While I am not anti "big camp" I know I also had to camp at J & 8:05 last year and walked past vast swathes of land all week that never got used because they were reserved for big theme camps and created urban sprawl. But that's another issue.

Priority is a very touchy problem. While I don't have problem with priority for people who contribute time directly to BM like DWP or rangers or gate workers, that becomes a slippery slope as an artist could put 100's of man hours in before BM even starts.

Someone mentioned that non-transferable tickets are a non starter with this crew, why is that and and is there official proof of that or is it just an opinion?
Last edited by copilot602 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby notthelarryharvey » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:35 am

EASY
Lack of participants = shitty event

First round of tickets only go to approved application for participatory events
theme camps
art installations
art cars
art performances
etc..
you have to apply to participate to get tickets first...simple

after that what difference does it make since the rest will be spectators it won't change the event one way or another
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby AntiM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:39 am

2013 presale booth in Center Camp? I'd bite.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby copilot602 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:50 am

after that what difference does it make since the rest will be spectators it won't change the event one way or another


Wow! That is really quite an elitest concept you have there! I can tell you right now that you are wrong. There are plenty of: theme camps, art installations, art cars and art performances that have made no difference in my burn in any way, were created purely for self gratification by their creaters and did not serve any public good at all. On the other hand, lots of people really seem to appreciate when I walk around my part of the city with a huge bowl of cold watermelon or show up to a bar camp with a case or two of booze and a smile. But apparently I am a spectator and won't change the event one way or another? Burning Man is made up of all the little things, not just the big stuff. When you hear people complain about BM being better "last year" it is not because BM got smaller; t is because people feel less of a connection as it gets bigger.

Please re-evaluate your position.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby Ugly Dougly » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:09 am

domitron wrote:For those of you crying "Increase the size of the city!" Have you all forgotten 2007 already? They DID increase the size of the city - by 60% in fact! It was HUGE, and then in 2008 they shrunk it back because everyone complained that it was too big. I for one liked the bigger city (even though that year I never did make it to the trash fence), but really the size of the city is irrelevant to the real problem here. The city could be tripled without much more impact on the playa (keep in mind the normal event takes up less than 5% of the total surface of the playa), but the real issue is the road situation. So what happens when last year's 12-hour traffic jam (something I can personally attest to) turns into a 36-hour jam after they increase the event's attendance limit to 80K? I'll tell you what happens - death by heat stroke in several vehicles. It wouldn't be a pretty site, folks, and big media would jump on that like flies on shit. The event would be shut down so fast your head would spin. You can't have people in their fucking cars for days in the middle of the desert. It's dangerous and it ain't going to fly.


At least you're not trying to fix the ticket situation (henceforth referred to as "re-arranging the deck chairs"), since that's a symptom of the problem.
The core of the problem is that Burning Man is suffering from the curse of popularity.
The Regionals have been tried as a partial solution, but there's something wrong. People want a real Burning Man.
Why not do it another time in the year in about the the same spot?
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby FIGJAM » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:41 am

copilot602 wrote:
after that what difference does it make since the rest will be spectators it won't change the event one way or another


Wow! That is really quite an elitest concept you have there! I can tell you right now that you are wrong. There are plenty of: theme camps, art installations, art cars and art performances that have made no difference in my burn in any way, were created purely for self gratification by their creaters and did not serve any public good at all. On the other hand, lots of people really seem to appreciate when I walk around my part of the city with a huge bowl of cold watermelon or show up to a bar camp with a case or two of booze and a smile. But apparently I am a spectator and won't change the event one way or another? Burning Man is made up of all the little things, not just the big stuff. When you hear people complain about BM being better "last year" it is not because BM got smaller; t is because people feel less of a connection as it gets bigger.

Please re-evaluate your position.



Arn't you glad you decided not to go this year? :lol:
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby Speedbump » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:58 am

I sincerely hope that the community can get past this. I'd hate for BM to become "one of those cool things from back in the day." The world is already a dark enough place without one more beacon being crushed by the greed and insensitivity of the masses. :(
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby notthelarryharvey » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:15 pm

Before I go and change my user name AGAIN %-)....
since the almighty "gods" seem to think that someone would actually believe I am Larry Harvey....???
just like I believe Trilobyte is actually a trilobite AND "Cryptofishwhatever..."is actually a fish right ???.....
errrr.....yeah suuuuurrre.....
what was I saying....

Oh Yeah.....

FIGJAM MAKES THE BEST "EVAPORATIVE COOLERS" EVER INVENTED FOR THE PLAYA !!!!!!!
THANKS FOR THE AWESOME IDEA FIGJAM......
YOU MADE MY BURN LAST YEAR , THANK YOU.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby forge » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:53 pm

1 ticket per person non-transferable non-refundable at 1 price

Name or picture of buyer printed on ticket. ID checked against name on ticket at gate.

If a person feels like gifting a ticket then that person can give the person they are gifting the ticket to the money to buy the ticket instead of a ticket.
At gate people already have to verify if ticket is fake or not. Already they use barcode scanners to verify if person is eligible for early entry or not. Because of non-transferable tickets you also don't need to print such elaborate anti-forging tickets because it is no longer the ticket you need to forge it is the name.
This eliminates speculative buyers and scalpers because scalpers are unable to buy any ticket because they can not resell them because tickets are non-transferable. Speculative buyers (people who are not 100% sure they can go) are also taken out of early ticket sales because tickets are non-refundable and non-transferable.

1 price eliminates that poorer people with slower internet connections are forced into higher tiers. If you wanted you could make a donation box to buy (or gift tickets) to the low income ticket program. This has the potential to increase the number of tickets sold like this.

With this people who are long time burners or people who have gone for many years and are determined to go again are rewarded. Camps organizers and other core camp people are rewarded as well. It rewards people who are willing to shell out the money and make the commitment to go. It hurts people who are trying to buy more tickets than they need, people unsure of going, or people who buy a ticket and unforeseen problems prevent them from going.

Personally, I believe that the # of people that would be hurt by this or the number of camps hindered by this would be extremely low. Sure someone will trot out the example of someone who buys a ticket and then last minute can not go and has to eat the cost of the the non-transferable ticket. Personally I believe them's the breaks and oh well but if you really wanted to institute a way for this person to be covered as well is that extreme circumstances on ticket cancellations do not get you a refund but are forwarded to a ticket for next year. You can cap forwarding a ticket in time to say 3 years or whatever. This is a simple database of names, addresses, and email addresses that is then contacted the next year and given a ticket. Remember this is done in extreme circumstances like relative death or natural disaster or other acts of god not just because someone doesn't want to go anymore.

This creates a small slush fund of money that is interest bearing for Burning Man Org which can be used to help against the millions that is not raised in a fire sale because of nontransferable tickets. Also, the amount of money received from unused tickets without extraneous circumstances is folded into the org as well.

The biggest problem with this system is that it does not generate a millions of dollars early in the year because of the non-transferable part. the creation of scarcity and the subsequent fire sale is good for raising ticket prices and raising capital quickly.

I have heard a bunch of different solutions on how to solve this ticket problem. I think the main problem is how do you simply insure that the people who want to go get the ticket they want and the organization gets the money it needs to operate the venue. Scarcity provides the latter but not the former. Non-transferable provides the former but may provide not the latter.

Being a consumer I want non-transferable tickets because I want to be able to buy my ticket early and plan a long time to go. From what i see of the BM crowd there are a very large amount of ultra-committed long time burners who go every year and a good amount of people who come for the first time or for short stints of time. Any good business knows that you play to your core audience and expand from their because repeat business is where you make your money. So, I would suggest that any ticket system that is made be made in favor of the core audience (the long time ultra-committed burners). While, this does not sound very fair of me I think for the the sake of the business and the event it is the best decision. I am not against what people call virgins. I think that is silly. Newcomers are essential as well. Every newcomer has the potential of becoming a new member of your core audience.

To summarize:

1 non-transferable non-refundable ticket per person at 1 price
ID checked against ticket at gate
Option to donate more
Extreme circumstances of last minute cancellation has ticket cancelled and ticket for next year awarded.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby bleurose51 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:07 pm

Random comments/responses:

1. Regardless of the lottery, this year has NOTHING to do with last year. Anyone who thinks that this year's ticket sales would have worked "the same" as last year's (lottery or not) is smoking crack. The problem this year was caused NOT by the lottery (although that didn't help in any way shape or form) but by the simple fact that last year's event sold out which brought out the profiteers for this year's event, chomping at the bit to make a ton off of the Burning Man masses. Last year, that wasn't part of the equation and though 27,000 tickets sold in the first day, the rest just piddled along for about 4 months before the sellout ultimately happened. This year, lottery or not, the event would have sold every available ticket with a few days if not a few hours (assuming the ticketing system didn't crumble). By the way, I am surprised that the ticketing systems have been so weak for BM... I worked for Walmart.com at one time and we processed 10s of thousands of orders in a single hour during holiday, and I know of relatively small ticketing companies that process hundreds of thousands of tickets every week for a variety of events... Selling 50,000 tickets is not a HUGE problem... it just takes some technical acumen to deal with...

2. Scalpers are CLEARLY a serious problem and this year it will become much clearer that that is true. I expect STEP to work, but it won't solve the problem of thousands of tickets in the hands of scalpers (who have no reason at all to use STEP, after all there are no laws in California about scalping) and these tickets are going to show up on CL, Ebay, StubHub and elsewhere at radically inflated prices... If people ultimately feel they HAVE to go to BM, they will spend the cash and the scalpers will be encouraged. Ignoring the naivete of those who say "simplify the system" and don't want non-transferable tickets, that is the ONLY solution to this problem. Any other attempt will simply fail as the scalpers see the $$$ that they can make. And judging from the number of "Burning Man Cruise" camps that were out in force last year (with ticket prices ranging from a few thousand dollars to upwards of $30,000 for a ticket) there are PLENTY of people willing to pay inflated prices to go get really dusty for a week and watch a bunch of people run around naked in the desert. Of course, this begs the question of what happens when all (or a lot of) the things they are paying to see disappear because the poor schlubs who MADE the event what it is can't get tickets. What's that old stock market saying? Bulls make money and bears make money, but pigs usually make nothing. We shall see. (Realworldpolitik aside: this is just a microcosm of what will see in our real economy as the rich get REALLY rich and the middle class becomes poor, and the rich have no one to buy their products... just sayin'...)

3. 50,000 tickets plus a "negligible" number of volunteer/staff/artist tickets? What are YOU smoking? :-) I want some! There are most likely upwards of 5,000-7,000 free tickets distributed by BM for "volunteers/staff/artists". All of the regionals get tickets for their organizers, all the major art projects get fairly large numbers of tickets, anyone who volunteers 20+ hours last year (and that had to be several thousand people, between the Gate and DMV and DPW and Rangers and Lamplighters and everyone else) gets a discount ticket that hasn't even been accounted for, plus if you volunteered more, you get a free ticket. BM's paid staff is also big. There were many thousands of people at the event early last year and many of them were on free tickets or volunteer discount tickets, all of which are outside the "main ticket sale". This is not negligible.

4. The size 'cap" on the event is definitely regulated by BLM and while "we could easily grow to 75,000" I doubt BLM is ready to just let that happen overnight. The impact on the playa is a significant issue and while we love having fun one weekend a year, the BLM has a bigger agenda, trying to make sure the environment is there for others to enjoy for many years to come. I believe there were close to 60,000 on-playa last year between sold tickets and volunteers/staff/others... That number will go up this year, and the public sales tickets of 53,000 (3,000 presale, 40,000 main lottery sales and 10,000 late open sales) reflects that.

5. The best idea I have heard about doing non-transferable tickets came from one of the long-time Burning Man folks, Malderor (Steve Courtney) proprietor of Fandango for many many years going back to the early 90s. He suggested using tickets with photos and names printed on them (he said this is done at Glastonberry which I assume is a concert/festival of some sort, sorry for my ignorance). That woudl be a great idea, but I would take it into the 21st century and instead use iPads (like we did at DMV last year). When you buy your ticket, you have to submit a photo (Drivers' License, passport, your dating site pic, whatever). That would be entered into a database with your ticket number(s). You could buy 2 (or 4) tickets associated with your photo (no need to get photos from everyone in your group). Tickets are NOT TRANSFERABLE AT ALL and photos can not be updated at all. You can return your tickets to BM for a refund less a handling fee, but you can't designate a new ticket owner (this is to stop scalpers - it may hurt a few people, like those who have medical emergencies at the last minute, and maybe there can be some exceptions for provable cases like that, but not for just deciding to turn your tickets over to someone else). At the gate, your ticket is scanned (they already do this) and it pops up your photo on the iPad that each Gate person would use. This takes NO EXTRA TIME from current approach. The person in the photo has to be in the car with the tickets. Others with his/her group of tickets don't need photos.

The point is, scalpers don't attend events, they just sell tickets. This precludes almost any scalping and the cost is negligible in both time and money. Bringing up a photo from a database of 50,000 (or less because you only need a photo for, say, every 1.7 tickets :-), takes almost no time these days. That is a trivially small database compared to some I work with in my job. The whole thing could be stored in memory on a very fast server and would provide virtually instantaneous response (unfortunately I would NOT ever use Apple or Filemaker Pro as they did with DMV, that is way too slow, I would use something else). You can still bring "unidentified guests" but you have to be with them (or if you arrive early, you have to come to the gate when they arrive). Its a LITTLE bit more complicated and a LITTLE bit annoying for some, but for the vast majority, this would be easy to deal with, and would completely eliminate scalping. This would probably have put 10-15,000 tickets back into circulation during this past lottery or ticket sales.

The lottery itself would have been much fairer if ONLY REAL BURNING MAN TICKET BUYERS were involved. Then I think the lottery would have been reasonably successful. Some people still wouldn't have gotten tickets, but that number would be much smaller than the 50-70% numbers I have been hearing about.

This needs to be fixed and I think this is the only approach that stands a chance.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby brianw21 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:15 pm

1. Existing ticket allocations made via the lottery system would be assigned to the purchasers credit card credentials (valid ID), purchasers would be given five business days to assign their second ticket to a valid ID, or allocate any of their tickets to the STEP program (with no fee).

2. All tickets would be locked to an ID and tranferable via STEP ONLY, thus eliminating the black market.

3. After the five day grace period, participants with an extra ticket can allocate their ticket to the STEP program (with fee imposed).

4. Participants without a ticket can sign up via the STEP program.

5. Tickets in the STEP program are allocated to buyers first come first serve as they are registered for sale. The seller cannot directly select the recipient (otherwise blackmarket transfers could be arranged).

6. The buyer pays face value of the original ticket.

7. After the grace period a $5 fee for the transfer is imposed to the seller, thus discouraging buying “extra” tickets, hoarding, or scalping in the original sale.

At the gate, tickets are checked to ensure the ID presented matches the name assigned to the ticket.

This system would end ticket hoarding and scalper speculation, and return "extra" tickets back into the system since they cannot be scalped, transfered, or otherwise assigned outside the STEP program.

All future ticket purchases are assigned to a specific valid US ID or valid passport and are non transferable outside of STEP.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby Patamon » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:24 pm

The whole ticket madness could have been easily solved by doing this instead...

#1: Same price, no tiers. Make the tickets all the same price. If your money is so tight that you cant go because you need to save $80 on a ticket, then you probably shouldn't be going in the first place. (get a job)

#2: Make it a REGISTERED event, not a TICKETED event. i.e. use the same method that they use at Conventions etc. You pay $350 (or whatever) and you are now Registered for Burning Man. You'll get your Registration thingy with barcode and name (like EE passes) in the mail, and that pass is good for YOU and YOU only. Cannot be sold or traded.

#3: First come, first serve. Since you can now only register FOR YOURSELF, there will be far less of an inital speculative demand. and dickheads like ebay and stubhub will no longer be able to scam people.

#4: Once the REGISTRATIONS are maxed out (60K, whatever) registration is closed.

#5: If you have to cancel, you have until July 31st to cancel and get a refund.

#6: From August 1st, to August 20th, 2nd round Registration is open (again fist come first serve) based upon the number of cancelations. so if 4,000 people canceled, that opens up 4,000 new slots.

#7: On August 20th, no more registrations.

#8: Bring your ID and Form to the playa, and you're good to go. If your a hippy who cant deal with having an ID, see #1 above.

Badda bing. problem solved. I just saved Burning Man. 2013 theme will be in honor of me, with the man on a Giant Copy of my Face.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby djmattdunn » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:25 pm

So the lottery fails. Instead of bitching about it lets figure out a way to keep scalpers from getting all the tickets in the future. My suggestion is giving everyone at BM 2012 a serial number (perhaps on a sticker that they get at the gate entry) that can be used to guarantee them an opportunity for one ticket for BM 2013 when those go on sale next year? So basically, everyone that goes to burning man this year gets first chance at buying themselves a ticket for next year. This should cut out the scalpers initially and get the tickets directly to those that participate first.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby djmattdunn » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:29 pm

Having a ticket with your name dont work ...... it dont work for people who get a ticket and decide they cant go and want to get that ticket to someone else. if there is an option to change the name on a ticket it defeats the purpose of putting the name on the ticket in the first place.
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby Dr. Plaia » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:35 pm

So you would weight the people who were on the playa in 2012 heavier than those who had been for 10 years prior, but didn't make the lottery draw? Go deeper...find the way!
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Re: Lets start talking about how to fix this

Postby copilot602 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:54 pm

You have to sacrifice something to keep the scalpers out. That sacrifice is the ability to transfer tickets. If you have an extra ticket, you use STEP to sell it back on a sliding scale. The sooner you sell it back, the more you get for it. If you want to gift a ticket, they have to be with you at the gate.
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