name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

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name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby piquehard » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:27 pm

If you're poor, your tickets are will call only, require invasive documentation, and are non-transferable.

But as long as you're not poor, Burning Man trusts you. You'll do the right thing. You'll only enter the lottery for the tickets you need, and if you don't need the tickets you win, you'll gleefully send your extra tickets back to the STEP system.

Name-on-ticket for all!

If it works for low income / scholarship tickets, and it works for Early Arrival Passes, it should work for everyone.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby CornMan » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:37 pm

I trust the low income people but not so much for the people of means who did not get a ticket in the lotto at the price they want. The low income tier would be inordinately flooded with requests if there was no verification.

I'm so used to thinking of myself as low income that I didn't consider the scholarship tickets. I'll look into that too.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby trilobyte » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:40 pm

It's also a function of logistics. There are 4,000 low income tickets - that number can be managed with a single gate and the highway infrastructure and resources that are available. Early arrivals are also a different set of logistics (names are not actually printed on the tickets btw), and because of both low numbers and the nature of them being early arrivals before the start of the event, it doesn't create the logistical nightmare that would come from name verification on 57K tickets at the gate.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby Savannah » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:40 pm

* Low income tickets are held at Will Call, not--to my knowledge--issued with names on them. They are also not transferable, unlike regular tickets.

* Early Arrival passes also do not have names on them. They are bar codes. They are issued at the discretion of Theme Camps and volunteer departments.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby BBadger » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:11 pm

People seem to forget that regular Burning Man tickets are meant to be transferable without BMOrg's blessing. There are no names on regular tickets by design.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby The CO » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:18 pm

piquehard wrote:If you're poor, your tickets are will call only, require invasive documentation, and are non-transferable.


Invasive documentation... Showing your ID at will call? That's all I had to do when I got a low-income ticket.
They are non-transferable because the individual must apply for them, and explain their specific case.

And, as pointed out, EAP don't have names on them. IIRC, they tried it one year and it was a military grade clusterfunk.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby International Incident » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:28 pm

piquehard wrote:If you're poor, your tickets are will call only, require invasive documentation, and are non-transferable.

But as long as you're not poor, Burning Man trusts you. You'll do the right thing. You'll only enter the lottery for the tickets you need, and if you don't need the tickets you win, you'll gleefully send your extra tickets back to the STEP system.

Name-on-ticket for all!

If it works for low income / scholarship tickets, and it works for Early Arrival Passes, it should work for everyone.


Nope. Impossible to get that many people through the gates with verifying names.

And if you don't like having to show ID.... tough... no-one is forcing you to go...
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:50 pm

The CO wrote:
piquehard wrote:If you're poor, your tickets are will call only, require invasive documentation, and are non-transferable.


Invasive documentation... Showing your ID at will call? That's all I had to do when I got a low-income ticket.
They are non-transferable because the individual must apply for them, and explain their specific case.

And, as pointed out, EAP don't have names on them. IIRC, they tried it one year and it was a military grade clusterfunk.

It's possible the op meant the income verification that goes with the application for a loww-income ticket.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:58 pm

if the new low income program is anything like the scholarship program i used in the past the tickets are 100% transferable.. once they are in your hand

of course,.. you dont have the ticket in hand until you pay cash money for it at the gate/willcall before then all you have is a piece of paper that only grants one Joe Shmoe a ticket (if he shows id)

but you get an actual ticket after that will call transation!!!

you could totally sell that fucker..!! (for big profits!!! ...) as it is the same as any other ticket.. it just says a number like "$160" on it instead of "Gift" or "$420"

i highly doubt theyve changed this and made low income tickets physically different in any way other than the price stamped on them...

so.. once youre awarded a low income ticket, you cannot transfer it, your low income acceptance is non transferable....... but once you got that ticket in your hand.. its a free for all baby!!!

(this is based on previous experience and conjecture about the upcoming process)
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:09 pm

It's my understanding that the scholarship ticket program is being retired as such and rolled into the new procedures of the new low-income ticket sales. That takes proof of income and the tickets have (or it is conjectured that they have) a different design.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby The CO » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:22 pm

It has been a few years, but when ORed and I applied for (and got) low income tickets, the "invasive paperwork" was a questionaire about you, experience and plans for the burn. There was nothing even vaugely resembling income verification. Has that changed?
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby Savannah » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:54 pm

They ask now for a minimum of one document proving income and expenses.

The application has more detailed instructions, but here's what you need to know before you get started:

* You cannot have already purchased a ticket through the pre-sale, main sale or purchase one in the open sale.
* Applications are submitted completely online. If you do not have easy internet access we are happy to send you a paper application.
* Tickets are awarded one per person, no couples, families or groups.
* Do not submit an application on behalf of someone else. Each person must submit their own application.
* You must submit digital copies of at least one (1) but a maximum of three (3) financial documents demonstrating your income and expenses. Your name must be listed on the documents
* No payment is taken at the time of application.
* All Low Income Tickets are held at Will Call and paid for at the Box Office, located at the front gate of Burning Man.
* Tickets are non- transferable. They cannot be given to another person or used another year if you are unable to attend. If you can't attend, please email lowincome@burningman.com to cancel your ticket.
* Your ticket will be revoked if you have purchased another ticket or obtained one by other means.



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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby The CO » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:21 pm

Okay then. So it's less complex than a credit card or student loan application. Good to know.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby ragabashpup » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:51 pm

I don't see the problem with asking for a document to prove why you should be eligible for low income.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby Mofessor » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:42 pm

ragabashpup wrote:I don't see the problem with asking for a document to prove why you should be eligible for low income.


Me neither... although I'm struggling to understand how people are okay with these low income requirements, searching vehicles, etc. but think showing your ID at the gate would be embracing TSA fascism. (I know others have problems with it because they think it would cause significant delays ... which I still don't believe)
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:45 pm

Mofessor wrote:(I know others have problems with it because they think it would cause significant delays ... which I still don't believe)

This has been hashed out in detail with lots of comments from people who actually work the gate and have a very good idea of what the logistics would be. Look at some of the older threads in this forum and see what they said.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby A Jester » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:03 pm

Mofessor wrote:
ragabashpup wrote:I don't see the problem with asking for a document to prove why you should be eligible for low income.


Me neither... although I'm struggling to understand how people are okay with these low income requirements, searching vehicles, etc. but think showing your ID at the gate would be embracing TSA fascism. (I know others have problems with it because they think it would cause significant delays ... which I still don't believe)



I think the "some people might not want to show id" thing is just a tip of the hat to those few people. The real issues are the logistics of getting the names on the tickets and staffing the gate to screen for IDs.

There's also the "what do you do with someone who somehow messes up" issue, but that doesn't get much airtime.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby lemur » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:09 pm

If my friend and I are both named John Smith ...how do they know which ticket belongs to which person?


Surely we should be matching tickets (in a name on ticket system) to PEOPLE and not to Names..


right?!
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby The CO » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:17 am

ragabashpup wrote:I don't see the problem with asking for a document to prove why you should be eligible for low income.


Nor do I. That's a new thing since my experience with low income tickets, and not a bad addition in my opinion.

And cast my voice with those pointing out the issues with 'name on ticket'.
I know I'll catch flak from the exact people I'm speaking about in this sentance for saying this, but if you have not run a crew for a festival of any size, you need to STFU about how 'easy' anything would be at gate. (That's the majestic plural you, not directed specifically)
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby lemur » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:21 am

I could run the gate single handedly..

easy..

Just let people come in unchecked and without checking tickets


I trust y'all.... i mean.. surely probably less than 1000 people show up without a ticket.. its a hell of a long way from kansas...


itd be the fastest entry ever.


we can guestimate population using aircraft surveilance to appease BLM fees..


DONE PROBLEM SOLVED.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby The CO » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:38 am

Bwahahaha!

Silly lemurs.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby Mofessor » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:57 am

The CO wrote:
ragabashpup wrote:I don't see the problem with asking for a document to prove why you should be eligible for low income.


And cast my voice with those pointing out the issues with 'name on ticket'.
I know I'll catch flak from the exact people I'm speaking about in this sentance for saying this, but if you have not run a crew for a festival of any size, you need to STFU about how 'easy' anything would be at gate. (That's the majestic plural you, not directed specifically)


I've never run a crew, but I've worked them. Not sure if that counts.

theCryptofishist wrote:
Mofessor wrote:(I know others have problems with it because they think it would cause significant delays ... which I still don't believe)

This has been hashed out in detail with lots of comments from people who actually work the gate and have a very good idea of what the logistics would be. Look at some of the older threads in this forum and see what they said.


I've read quite a few of them already and still believe that, well staffed, this is a system that can be implemented with minimal delay. Perhaps there were particular post that I missed which you would like to point me to?

If you have another way to solve the problem that certain people have a far greater chance of winning a ticket because they have the resources to enter over and over, I'd love to hear it. For all I care you can distribute tickets a few days before the event in a "nearby" location (Reno, Fernley, whatever), just like you would for low income. It's not radical inclusion without equal opportunity for everyone involved in the lottery.
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby lemur » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:08 am

Mofessor wrote: Perhaps there were particular post that I missed which you would like to point me to?




OH HELL YES, THERE IS A POST!!!

IF YOU DARE TO READ IT...

Have a looksie at the MOST EPIC GATE THREAD EVER IN THE WHOLE EPLAYA.

bradtem (god bless his soul) gave it to us, many people took part:

ENJOY:

Reducing the line to get in the gate

viewtopic.php?f=65&t=50194&hilit=gate
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby The CO » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:20 am

Mofesser, I did specify running a crew for a reason. The experience one will gain by dealing with the managerial side of running even a small crew in live event production is worthwhile. My key point here is that there are things one doesn't even begin to think about from an 'armchair manager' point of view, unless you've got some experience in that sort of field.

I run a yearly event that is not even the size of a village in BRC, and after 12 years of success I like to think I know what I'm doing. However, every year there are 3-20 people that want to tell me how I'm doing it all wrong. Our event is small enough that I can take the time to explain face-to-face why we do things the way we do. It's great, and it has given me perspective on why the Borg does a lot of what they do. Black Rock LLC is a bit to large to have that option, but they have this here BBS full of helpful (but mostly non-official) people. If you have questions about fire conclave I have a much larger knowledge base...

In regard to your query for specifics on gate, look for any thread on the topic of gate that involve explanation from Lord Of Ruin or CptSmashy. I know there are more gate people here, but they are the two that leap to mind at midnight with a head full of whiskey and cider.

*edit*
Good thread call Lemur!
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Re: name-on-ticket: good enough for low income!?

Postby lemur » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:48 am

lemur wrote:if the new low income program is anything like the scholarship program i used in the past the tickets are 100% transferable.. once they are in your hand

of course,.. you dont have the ticket in hand until you pay cash money for it at the gate/willcall before then all you have is a piece of paper that only grants one Joe Shmoe a ticket (if he shows id)

but you get an actual ticket after that will call transation!!!

you could totally sell that fucker..!! (for big profits!!! ...) as it is the same as any other ticket.. it just says a number like "$160" on it instead of "Gift" or "$420"

i highly doubt theyve changed this and made low income tickets physically different in any way other than the price stamped on them...

so.. once youre awarded a low income ticket, you cannot transfer it, your low income acceptance is non transferable....... but once you got that ticket in your hand.. its a free for all baby!!!

(this is based on previous experience and conjecture about the upcoming process)



let it be known this post was made in jest..

the time your ticket (unless they have changed things) would be "transferable" would be from the time you are at the will call office until you get to the gate... 20 minutes maybe

none of the low income tickets are technically transferable at all, they are 100% non transferable


BUT, in crazy happy funny land.. you do actually end up with a ticket in hand (unless things have changed) that if you were totally insane (120 miles from nowhere) you could (theoretically) transfer to someone (if you could convince them to pay for it) for some unknown reason (i doubt anyone would pay $500 for a ticket that says $160 on it) and if the gate crew doesnt double verify that it actually belongs to the holder when it is ripped..


so.. dont be confused..by my snarky comment

(of course you wouldnt be confused because all people who are applying for the low income program dutifully read all of the info about the program and all of the emails from the low income ticketing team)
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