well it looks like it failed.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby karma_cat » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:55 pm

DOOD, its like.. almost like they said this from only 1 week after they announced the lottery!! over 2 months ago!! holy moly.. this last minute concession is just jaw dropping!!!


Any news on how they plan to keep scalpers out of this system? Seems like a great 1-stop-shop to buy low and sell high.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby sunny@fullonfog » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:58 pm

Maybe the lottery/STEP approach will work well overall, maybe it won't. I like Mofessor's ideas about having names on tickets. I'd be interested to hear from the ticketing team the limitations that have kept you from going there. Names on tickets paired with easy gifting (for a limited number of tickets) might be just the thing to keep scalping to a minimum. It seems it wouldn't be too hard to set up systems for both the initial sale and subsequent management of tickets by ticket holders. (Ask me how--I have skills and I'd be happy to work on the project !) Named tickets wouldn't address the inherent scarcity, but would likely lower the chances that those of us who are not overbuying would not get a ticket and be put in the unhappy position of having to pay $800 or whatever for a ticket on E-bay to go. Scary! Face value tickets already don't exactly fit my budget, but I've always done my best to get early sale tickets and have made it work up till now but I'm feeling a bit nervous at the moment about it all and wondering how it might disrupt the Force. Here's hoping the lottery/STEP system works out and all our worries melt away like lemon drops way above the chimney tops. Hugs!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Katiebaby25 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:58 pm

I never said I did it to follow the rules, I did it so that I wasn't wasting entries on tickets that I don't need, so that they are available to other Burners. Because I felt that was the right thing to do. And in my experience I have found that most of the time karma does reward you when you do the right thing. And sometimes it doesn't, but I'm not about to freak out before knowing whether I got my tickets or not.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:02 pm

sunny@fullonfog wrote:Maybe the lottery/STEP approach will work well overall, maybe it won't. I like Mofessor's ideas about having names on tickets. I'd be interested to hear from the ticketing team the limitations that have kept you from going there.


homework yo..

Q: Why not just register each ticket with a name and require ID at the Gate to use the ticket?
A: It has been our experience that a great many tickets are purchased for giving away, ensuring a project has coverage, or selling later to a friend in need. The administrative cost of changing the name on every ticket that ever changes hands exceeds our capacity. And frankly, many of your fellow BRC citizens are uncomfortable with the notion of showing ID just to enter the event (nor suffering through even longer wait times at the Gate). While we know some events use non-transferable tickets, we're not convinced it works for our community. We're counting on everyone playing fairly so we don't have to go to an "ID-specific" process for ticket sales and event entry.

http://tickets2.burningman.com/faq.php
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Savannah » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:08 pm

sunny@fullonfog wrote:Maybe the lottery/STEP approach will work well overall, maybe it won't. I like Mofessor's ideas about having names on tickets. I'd be interested to hear from the ticketing team the limitations that have kept you from going there. Names on tickets paired with easy gifting (for a limited number of tickets) might be just the thing to keep scalping to a minimum. It seems it wouldn't be too hard to set up systems for both the initial sale and subsequent management of tickets by ticket holders. (Ask me how--I have skills and I'd be happy to work on the project !) Named tickets wouldn't address the inherent scarcity, but would likely lower the chances that those of us who are not overbuying would not get a ticket and be put in the unhappy position of having to pay $800 or whatever for a ticket on E-bay to go. Scary! Face value tickets already don't exactly fit my budget, but I've always done my best to get early sale tickets and have made it work up till now but I'm feeling a bit nervous at the moment about it all and wondering how it might disrupt the Force. Here's hoping the lottery/STEP system works out and all our worries melt away like lemon drops way above the chimney tops. Hugs!


Welcome to the board, Sunny! Thank you for your positivity. :)

Indeed, we're all looking forward to hearing more about the STEP system. I'm told the details will be coming soon.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby karma_cat » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

lemur wrote:
sunny@fullonfog wrote:Maybe the lottery/STEP approach will work well overall, maybe it won't. I like Mofessor's ideas about having names on tickets. I'd be interested to hear from the ticketing team the limitations that have kept you from going there.


homework yo..

Q: Why not just register each ticket with a name and require ID at the Gate to use the ticket?
A: It has been our experience that a great many tickets are purchased for giving away, ensuring a project has coverage, or selling later to a friend in need. The administrative cost of changing the name on every ticket that ever changes hands exceeds our capacity. And frankly, many of your fellow BRC citizens are uncomfortable with the notion of showing ID just to enter the event (nor suffering through even longer wait times at the Gate). While we know some events use non-transferable tickets, we're not convinced it works for our community. We're counting on everyone playing fairly so we don't have to go to an "ID-specific" process for ticket sales and event entry.

http://tickets2.burningman.com/faq.php


If tickets aren't sent out until June/July that makes the virtual transfer of a named ticket pretty easy. But it does not address the concerns of people who don't want to show ID.

Personally I think this would be a better system and I wonder what percentage of our community is so worried about ID. I'm not dismissing them ... just curious (I'd guess < 1%)
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby 5280MeV » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:11 pm

Katiebaby25 wrote:Because I felt that was the right thing to do. And in my experience I have found that most of the time karma does reward you when you do the right thing.


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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby feistypenguin » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:19 pm

ben-no wrote:Well it look like there system didn't work.


Well, it looks like you're a pessimist. Here's your frownie sticker :mrgreen:


I will start freaking out only if all of the below conditions are met:

1. I don't get any tickets during the main sale.
2. I don't get any tickets after attempting the open sale.
3. The aftermarket system at BM is completely unusable and/or I can't get tickets through it after months of diligent effort
4. I can't afford the price of a scalper's ticket once they come out in June

If all of the above comes to pass, I will freak out for exactly one day, probably throwing a tantrum on the forums like some of the people here... then I will say "fuckit" and turn my flight to Californa/Arizona into a 1-week vacation with my girlfriend instead.
After painstakingly researching the new ticket sale system, I have deduced that there is an inverse relationship between fretting about the ticket system, and the length of time one is able to stay aroused during coitus. Please spread the word!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Savannah » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:21 pm

That's an awesome plan.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby T4NK » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:29 pm

Soooo the thing that is going to keep people from turning a serious profit on their extra tickets is... their own sense of moral fiber?



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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby sunny@fullonfog » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:33 pm

Thank you Lemur, I did read it for sure. The part I'm wondering about is "We're counting on everyone playing fairly so we don't have to go to an "ID-specific" process for ticket sales and event entry." I understand taking on a named ticketing system might be daunting to the team, but it might result in a better outcome and be worth the effort. Everyone isn't necessarily playing fairly, necessitating the new system in the first place. So how best to do that given existing systems and resources right? Lottery/STEP may or may not be the best approach, but it's the one we've got this year (no pressure, right ticketing team?) and will no doubt generate lessons to learn. I'm just wondering if ultimately named ticketing might be the best way to go even given the logistical challenges it would present. Faith and trust friends. Karma be with you.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby vapor » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:33 pm

"Any news on how they plan to keep scalpers out of this system? Seems like a great 1-stop-shop to buy low and sell high."

I would suggest keeping the STEP program "private" for a period of time to only those who registered for the lottery and did not win. That would allow for equitable redistribution between those who "over applied" for tickets and those who missed out and keeping within the general spirit of an early sign up period. Another idea would be to have a short window of time, 3-5 days, where all those who are awarded tickets have time to double check that they actually need the number of tickets they applied for before cards are charged. Then redistribute the remaining tickets to those who weren't chosen.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby CapnJoe » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:37 pm

Well, I guess the way you tell if the lottery failed or not, is if you and all your friends and campmates are lucky enough to get tickets!!!!
This don't worry crap is getting kind of OLD!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Savannah » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:46 pm

vapor wrote:"Any news on how they plan to keep scalpers out of this system? Seems like a great 1-stop-shop to buy low and sell high."

I would suggest keeping the STEP program "private" for a period of time to only those who registered for the lottery and did not win. That would allow for equitable redistribution between those who "over applied" for tickets and those who missed out and keeping within the general spirit of an early sign up period.


That's a neat idea.

I think there will be some form of protection so that it's legitimately Burner-to-Burner. The details will be available soon.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby vapor » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:57 pm

Yeah, forgot to mention I believe that in general there will be enough tickets to go around, I think the lottery is no worse and may be somewhat better than the previous systems, my main concern is that we will have a chance to know sooner rather than later if we have tickets, June is a bit late . . . I'm very glad to hear that there will be a program in place very shortly to exchange tickets
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby The CO » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:57 pm

Well, I'm going with the crazy thought that maybe folks should wait until the lottery has actually occurred before declaring it a success or failure.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby ygmir » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:58 pm

The CO wrote:Well, I'm going with the crazy thought that maybe folks should wait until the lottery has actually occurred before declaring it a success or failure.


it's crazy talk like that from when revolutions spring.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:10 pm

So June huh? If my Karma isn't up to snuff and my girlfriend and I are not awarded tickets in 4 or 5 days I have to wait until June to begin planning on going to Burning Man? Or we can spend $400 each at the end of March.

If I may quote Karma_cat from his thread suggesting another way to approach this mess:

"From JRS: "As a result, there are a lot more tickets being requested than there are tickets available -- an inordinately large number, in fact, and far more than we projected even after last year's sold-out event. It seems that people a) likely got their friends, family and campmates to order tickets as well, and/or b) requested more tickets than they actually need."

This is a failure. Period. End of story.
"

That thread got nasty quick.. too many 'personal attacks' for my taste, and far too much of that condescending "You're just panicking! Shut up because you're stupid and the lottery is a fine way to sell tickets to Burning Man" rhetoric that this community seems so good at lobbing around when someone pops up and says "hey wait a minute, this stinks!". And yes, I know there were several conversations about this in November. The problem here, is that if you put a system in place to alleviate issues and 3 months later the same issues are popping up UNRESOLVED then that is a pretty strong indicator that indeed, the system has failed.

NO ONE IS PANICKING. Well, maybe some people are, but the majority of us are not. We are however having a hard time with this and looking to voice our feelings and thoughts in the forum where these sorts of conversations are supposed to be happening? Right?

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby StormInADDCup » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:16 pm

it's a complete unmitigated disaster. Don't be fooled by another session of "I know this sounds bad but really it will all be ok, the spirit of the community will win out (pause for huge toke)" from the Jack Rabbit. They've completely messed it up by not listening to the community - we all said we'd have to register for more tickets than we need (what choice did we have?), we all said the scalpers would be out in force with a luxurious two weeks to get their teams of scalpers in China to flood the system and it's EXACTLY what's happened.

I'll tell you the reason for the lottery...it's really simple...it's so that the mad crusty old hippies sat in their geodomes that can't get their sh*t together to buy tickets early and all moaned like hell last year when it was sold out could have a chance to get tickets. (let it be said that I live for those people and what they bring to BM but seriously, stop drumming for a second and start packing)

Anyone who was remotely organized could get their single ticket at a price they can afford with the old system and for people like our camp travelling from the UK this is essential. A close community like the BMORG can persuade itself of anything and they have once again persuaded themselves that everything's fine, Gaia will sort it all out, let the chips fall as they may bla bla...you F*UCKED it right up! Now apologise and say you'll scrap it for next year...have one ticket price, put them on sale on one day...if its good enough for Glastonbury....
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby vapor » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:19 pm

Actually June is when physical tickets get mailed, from what I can tell the STEP program is going to be implemented shortly after the lottery results are announced. I'd hope that means ticket exchanging very soon. It would seem as simple as someone has too many tickets, they offer to sell whatever number they want through the STEP program. The key question is how people who want tickets get access to those that are available. And secondarily how the financial transactions are handled. I guess we'll know in about a week.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby tamarakay » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:32 pm

I think BMorg needs to get that PR person hired quickly and hope she can start like, yesterday.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Uncle » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:35 pm

This stupid f lottery makes me so pissed off I almost don't want to go to BM this year. I have never seen a more retarded system. Worried about scalpers? "fairness"? Server crashes?
Does anybody running that place understand markets 101?

- open a period for bidding online
- run a simple Dutch auction that automatically clears the number of tickets available at a market determined price
- it is fair since everybody pays the same price (and no, the Obama "progressive" tax system is not fair). If you can't afford it get your camp mates or friends to help out or volunteer
- tickets picked up will call

All problems solved. What am I missing?
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby jkisha » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:44 pm

:roll:
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:53 pm

Uncle wrote:This stupid f lottery makes me so pissed off I almost don't want to go to BM this year. I have never seen a more retarded system. Worried about scalpers? "fairness"? Server crashes?
Does anybody running that place understand markets 101?

- open a period for bidding online
- run a simple Dutch auction that automatically clears the number of tickets available at a market determined price
- it is fair since everybody pays the same price (and no, the Obama "progressive" tax system is not fair). If you can't afford it get your camp mates or friends to help out or volunteer
- tickets picked up will call

All problems solved. What am I missing?



the real problem is that not all of the people who want to get a ticket can actually receive one...

good luck solving that one with any method save upping the population every time it gets near the sell out point..

the problem isnt the lottery, or the implementation of any possible ticket system or trying to create a fair system... there isnt a way to make sure its fair without someone being without a ticket.. in this community, and many others.. a system that doesnt work for one person is likely to be considered a failure for every person..

the problem is that there are more people interested in attending than tickets..

until we can assure 100% of people who want a ticket will get one we will always have threads claiming a failed system and pointing out possible solutions to fix whatever solution is devised..

nothing can ensure total fairness, which i think we can all agree would be that 'we all get a ticket'
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Eric » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:53 pm

A-RockLeFrench wrote:
vargaso wrote:BM lottery is turning out to be like the Iraq war. Everyone outside of those making the decisions knew exactly what would happen. Oh well, I'm still hopeful.


Except there seems to be WAY more civilian casualties as a result of the BM lottery than the Iraq War....


[Mod hat off]

Really? Really??? You're fucking comparing Hundreds of Thousands of HUMAN BEINGS DYING to a couple of entitled 1st world people not getting a fucking ticket to party in a desert for a week???

Just fucking shoot me. People have lost all sense of reality.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:55 pm

inside job!!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby pink » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:03 pm

Savannah wrote:
vapor wrote:"Any news on how they plan to keep scalpers out of this system? Seems like a great 1-stop-shop to buy low and sell high."

I would suggest keeping the STEP program "private" for a period of time to only those who registered for the lottery and did not win. That would allow for equitable redistribution between those who "over applied" for tickets and those who missed out and keeping within the general spirit of an early sign up period.


That's a neat idea.

I think there will be some form of protection so that it's legitimately Burner-to-Burner. The details will be available soon.


I think this suggestion is fucking brilliant. :D
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:18 pm

Uncle wrote:- tickets picked up will call

Biggest Burningman Cluster Fuck Ever!!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby vapor » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:25 pm

"Biggest Burningman Cluster Fuck Ever!!!!"

No matter where or when I'll definitely attend that, sounds like great fun ! I mean, a cluster of fucks. Or the biggest that Burningman has ever achieved . . . well, that is hard to imagine, actually. But I like the challenge.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:27 pm

We need to make an effort to malign the festival and the LLC as to make some of these burny come latelys stay home out of fear or disgust.

Has anyone got pictures of Larry kicking a dog or anything like that? Maybe a nice rumor that he's a C.I.A. Handler like Jim Jones...

Help me out here people, i cant do this all myself.
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