well it looks like it failed.

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question for the BORG

Postby charliedolman » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:31 am

Have the BORG put their own ticket needs through the lottery too?

So -- if the BORG team (rangers, police, camp 1 etc) totals 2500 people.... maybe they should put all their names in a hat and draw out 2/3 of them.

the remainder then can't go...... (unless they can find a ticket on secondary)

just a thought.

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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Raymaker » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:40 am

I can't even post how this as made me feel, words cannot explain it.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Raymaker » Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:49 am

Re STEP

I would just like to point this out, if a major ticketing provider cannot do it, why do you think even the BM resale method won't be a farce.

London 2012: Olympic ticket resale

…Slow to update

Those who bought tickets directly from Games organiser Locog should be able to submit their tickets for resale on the 2012 ticketing website until 3 February.

The resale window opened on 6 January but problems developed as the site was slow to update sessions which had sold out and the system was closed later the same day.

For example, tickets were advertised for the men's handball semi-finals when the site went live. The tickets were purchased almost as soon as they were made available, but hours later those same tickets were still showing as being for sale.

Some people reported that the tickets they selected to buy disappeared when they proceeded to the checkout page of the website.

On 9 January Locog partially reopened the site to sell Football and Paralympic tickets.…

The system is run by Ticketmaster and were unavailable for comment.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Key Man » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:15 am

Interesting point about the Olympics but there are big differences. BM is simpler -- only one event, only one kind of ticket. The bulk of ticket exchanges (especially if a lot of people have duplicate orders now) will happen months in advance, with little time pressure.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:04 am

Mofessor wrote:More likely people will forget a ticket than ID, so the turning around cars rationale doesn't seem compelling.

Maybe that's because you don't hear the "I left my ticket at home" stories. And the fact that everyone in a car has to go back to Reno because one clown forgot his or her id and has to be dropped off--and everyone does--means, if nothing else 447 is even harder to drive and traffic is more backed up.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:06 am

twister5voy wrote:How bout' we just put all the tickets in a giant Hungry Hungry Hippos kinda thing and we can all scramble for them.

Yeah, because nothing says more about our community than letting bullies win.
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Re: question for the BORG

Postby ygmir » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:12 am

charliedolman wrote:Have the BORG put their own ticket needs through the lottery too?

So -- if the BORG team (rangers, police, camp 1 etc) totals 2500 people.... maybe they should put all their names in a hat and draw out 2/3 of them.

the remainder then can't go...... (unless they can find a ticket on secondary)

just a thought.

x


yeah, 'cause it's a good idea, to be short staffed and such, for vital infrastructure and bureaucratic needs during the event. Yup, everything just runs on it's own, once the first hippies pitch their monkey hut.

and, of course who said this was supposed to be fair?
it's a private party, run by a private company, and, (at least so far) is a profit making business.
Yup, the boss and his pals, get privilege.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby twister5voy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:27 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
twister5voy wrote:How bout' we just put all the tickets in a giant Hungry Hungry Hippos kinda thing and we can all scramble for them.

Yeah, because nothing says more about our community than letting bullies win.


Jeez, I wasn't trying to imply we should fight over them. I just enjoyed the mental image of 40,000+ people playing Hungry Hungry Hippos all at once.
This lottery sure has everyone's panties in a bunch. :?
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:30 am

i can't WAIT for the Hitler Video to come out!!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:32 am

Shit. I'd forgotten that.
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Re: question for the BORG

Postby BlackRockCityPimp » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:33 am

charliedolman wrote:Have the BORG put their own ticket needs through the lottery too?

So -- if the BORG team (rangers, police, camp 1 etc) totals 2500 people.... maybe they should put all their names in a hat and draw out 2/3 of them.

the remainder then can't go...... (unless they can find a ticket on secondary)

just a thought.

x


I dont think the pigs hafta buy tix. I could be wrong.

Anyway.. personally I dig the org steppin up to handle resales. Everyone in my household bought two just in case one or two didnt get awarded in the lottery. I would venture to say that we were not the only burners to do this. Expect tickets to be available for resale. Also people get sick, unemployed, deployed, incarcerated etc. Tickets are always available in the month preceding gate opening.
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Re: question for the BORG

Postby MisaBlue » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:46 am

BlackRockCityPimp wrote:
charliedolman wrote:Have the BORG put their own ticket needs through the lottery too?

So -- if the BORG team (rangers, police, camp 1 etc) totals 2500 people.... maybe they should put all their names in a hat and draw out 2/3 of them.

the remainder then can't go...... (unless they can find a ticket on secondary)

just a thought.

x


I dont think the pigs hafta buy tix. I could be wrong.

Anyway.. personally I dig the org steppin up to handle resales. Everyone in my household bought two just in case one or two didnt get awarded in the lottery. I would venture to say that we were not the only burners to do this. Expect tickets to be available for resale. Also people get sick, unemployed, deployed, incarcerated etc. Tickets are always available in the month preceding gate opening.



REALLY?

This is exactly the behavior why are people screwed...and now I have to stop, because I don't be rude...
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Sham » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:49 am

It's clear that this has happened, but who would be so stupid as to post it? I know who! :roll:
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Just_Joe » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:56 am

Shambala wrote:It's clear that this has happened, but who would be so stupid as to post it? I know who! :roll:

Radical Self Reliance. I put in for two and my wife put in for two.
If we get extras, that's two that are not in the hands of brokers and will go back into the community.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby CornMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:16 pm

This uncertainty with the tickets makes Burning Man feel more like Coachella. You try to get the elusive tickets, but it is not something to put yourself out. By this, I mean that it feels less worth it to rent a self storage spot the whole year to store stuff for our camp. I'm sure glad we didn't get one of those storage containers in Gerlach. We'll see what pans out in the next week, but if I don't get a ticket, I'm not going to commit to anything. It's feeling less like something to plan the whole year for. Maybe they can compensate by offering headlining music attractions to take the place of burdensome theme camps and shorten the festival so that less planning is required by its participants.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Sugahoneyicetea » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:33 pm

well unfortunately we only put in an order for two trying to be as honest as possible so needless to say since we diddnt have a ton of money to put in fake orders our chances have dwindled.
we ARE gonna wait it out and see what happens however, if we don't win, i wont be buying tickets from some other person no matter what system it is.
I do consider this a massive fail, like i said we ARE gonna wait it out and see what happens but i dont see any difference between this and just selling them first come first serve. those who have the money to fake orders and buy more than they need STILL win even with this lottery system/
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Sugahoneyicetea » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:37 pm

gaminwench wrote:it's not a 1 to 7 ratio, read again.
Also, if you actually READ the information, you'll know that by next week the org will have set up a re-sale system;
this will allow burners to buy/sell at face value, without the risks of street sales.



and for everyone that says that:

I want to buy tickets from BURNING MAN
NOT some other lucky guy that had more money for more orders.
you know the lottery system was supposed to make it open for other who couldnt afford the higher prices to be able to get one.
looks like that did exactly the opposite to me.
[sorry]
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Sassy Britches » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:45 pm

[/quote]
Radical Self Reliance. I put in for two and my wife put in for two.
If we get extras, that's two that are not in the hands of brokers and will go back into the community.[/quote]

While hubby and I got our 2 tickets via the presale, some of our friends did exactly what you did - per couple, each person put in for 2 tickets. Their intention was exactly as yours - if they were so lucky to receive 4 instead of 2, they intend to put their extras on the exchange that BMORG had already announced it was going to set up, keeping the tickets in the community, and not selling for more than face value.

I am still actually pretty confident that the vast majority of burners that want tickets will be able to buy them, do so at face value, and know they are going well before the spring sets in.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:53 pm

weather man wrote:Radical Self Reliance. I put in for two and my wife put in for two.
If we get extras, that's two that are not in the hands of brokers and will go back into the community.



thats not radical self reliance.

thats doin it wrong !

no matter what you intend to do with your motherload of tickets (that you might not even get because everyone else considered doing it wrong like you did) youre clearly doing it wrong..
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby trilobyte » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:54 pm

@T4NK - yeah. While scarcity can drive the whole panic-driven "me first, fuck you" mentality that leads a person to game the system to get tickets, I think once that personal crisis is over and their needs are covered a fair number of people will do the right thing if given the opportunity. I'm not sure if you're just new to the site or new to the event in general, but my experiences out on the playa (as well as at regionals and other events in the community) has been that more often than not, people will do just that.

@Sunny - I'm not so sure about named tickets. First of all, if you allow any name changes whatsoever, you completely invalidate the system (because scalpers and hoarders could just book tickets with whatever names they want and change them later). And second, it does have some significant impact at the gate. If a name doesn't match, an entire vehicle gets turned around and sent back to Reno. Time needed for ID checks and matchups would impact the gate most significantly though (Glastonbury's most famous for using it, but what many don't realize is they have seven fully staffed gates to Burning Man's one).

@vapor - registrations for the secure ticket exchange will go through the same filtering/scrubbing process that main sale registrants go through. Look for complete details on the system to be announced early next week.

@CapnJoe - you can worry all you like, but it won't have an affect on the outcome. The registration/drawing system was designed to do just that, and the drawing will take place on Tuesday/Wednesday. The alarmist reaction to Will's post was unfortunate, I know his intentions were to provide an update and let people know a bit about the ticket exchange program (I think the concern was that people were going to 'feed the bears' as he put it and do business with scalpers thinking they had no other options.

@Storm - I disagree, with pretty much everything. Teams of scalpers in China is some creative conspiracy thinking, but scalpers and their proxies are being scrubbed from the list. I also think that, for a professional scalper that really doesn't care what event he's profiteering from, Burning Man is not smart money. If you had $20K to buy tickets and flip them for a profit for in the month of January, would you a) go through the Burning Man registration thing, try to game the system, and then try to flip those tickets when you got them sometime in June…. or b) buy tickets to events like Coachella or <insert sporting event here> which you can flip next month for the same profit %?

@Uncle - sorry, but I don't think a dutch auction would be an ideal solution at all. It would just create a different set of complaints, fears, panic, and opportunities for gaming the system. I also think a 100% will call system would just overwhelm the gates completely. Regardless, welcome to ePlaya!

@jkisha - it is.

@biketotheburn - last year's server meltdown was unfortunate. But even when you're dealing with the evil big-boys (Ticketmaster, LiveNation) they experience server issues, kickouts, and occasionally crashes during first-day on-sales when the demand exceeds around 10K transactions. But handling first day capacity wasn't the primary problem - scarcity is. Sure, tickets didn't sell out until July, but half sold in under 48 hours (and that's with that server meltdown). The goal was never to sell the event out as quickly as possible. The ticket team and other key members of Burning Man reviewed those events and a multitude of other events, as well as had great conversations about what works and what doesn't with other event production companies. We'll see how this system works out in the weeks ahead. And hey, welcome to ePlaya!

@Key Man - I disagree completely. The changes to the system were not intended to limit demand or interest in the event. If anything, they act as a contingency plan for when the demand is greater than the supply. To that end, it hasn't failed at all - it's doing what it was supposed to do. If you thought it was supposed to do something else, you may have been mistaken. As for using the ticket exchange system, I think there were three kinds of hoarders. Group one was loading up for campmates or art projects, group two was loading up for profit, and group three was registering for more than they needed to make sure they got what they needed. In an environment of scarcity, a certain "me first, fuck you" thing is unavoidable, but once that crisis is over I think a good number of people will seriously consider doing the right thing. The ticket exchange thing will hopefully help people do that. I agree about CL & eBay, I'm sure there will be listings and activity there.

@zer0mass - stay tuned for the details of the program to be announced early next week.

@theCryptoFishist - fees would go up, and scalpers would get much more than their fair share (as with any in-demand event they handle).

@curiousgnate - no, it's not that simple. Beyond cost (which would be carried by participants, not the org), it's an issue of logistics. Glastonbury does it (albeit with long lines and a lot less to do as far as vehicle inspection) using SEVEN fully staffed gates. Burning Man has just the one, and with 99% of traffic coming in on just the one road. You'd either end up with a line backed up all the way to Reno, or the BLM coming down and reducing the cap to keep the roads from being a total logjam. As for credit cards, if your card is declined for any reason you will lose your tickets and have to wait until either the ticket exchange or the secondary sale for another chance. Double check your balance, and if using a debit card, double check your daily spending limit (if need be, call your bank so they can make an exception for your purchase).

@lemur - as far as staffing to cover such an endeavor, you'd need more than one person per gate (and remember, that's round-the clock coverage too). It's not just a matter of reading a name on a printed ticket (as it could be altered), it's checking against the name on record in the system, in effect the same as if the entire event were done via will call).

@danibel - stay tuned for the announcement of details for the secure ticket exchange, coming early next week.

@mofessor - the issue is one of logistics. I've said it before in other comments, but there is only one single gate at Burning Man, as compared to Glastonbury (the one shining example everyone seems to point to) where they have 7 fully staffed gates running around the clock. Name verification on tickets effectively would reduce the entire event to will call entry, which would completely overwhelm the capacity of the single available gate.

@charliedolman - wow, here nearly 4 years and finally a post! Welcome to ePlaya! Sorry, I don't agree that the people who organize and run any event should have their essential staffers be a part of the draw. Most of those people are doing actual work to make the event possible. If that doesn't happen, things fall apart ridiculously fast and then there'd be no Burning Man for anybody (I don't see BLM renewing any permits for an event that can't even cover the essentials).

@Zeke - it's like any other ticketed event that sells out (Coachella included). Before this, it was like any other event that didn't sell out.

@Sugahoneyicetea - I'm sorry you've pre-failed the system, but I hope you guy are able to get tickets when the drawing happens in the week ahead.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby CornMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:57 pm

Sugahoneyicetea wrote:I do consider this a massive fail, like i said we ARE gonna wait it out and see what happens but i dont see any difference between this and just selling them first come first serve. those who have the money to fake orders and buy more than they need STILL win even with this lottery system/


I see a difference. In the past system, everybody that could get on the internet had pretty much an equal chance to get a ticket. Now those with more available funds will have a better chance at first dibs. The fact that people had to slyly use an alternative credit/debit cards because it's against the rules to buy more with the one primary card illustrates how this year's ticketing distribution is starting out in such an underhanded fashion. And I don't get much of a satisfied feeling when the BMORG saying, "Don't worry, the good people who are rich enough to hedge will be charitable and sell you their surplus tickets at a fair price."
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby CornMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:06 pm

I do like how Trilobite addresses so many of our posts.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:08 pm

trilo i could care less about all of that shit.....you did not answer MY question.

so, when DOES the "Hitler Reacts to the Lottery System HyperDemand(tm)" video come out?
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:11 pm




this one is OLD i want a FRESHIE!!!
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Mofessor » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:14 pm

low income tickets will require financial documentation, can only be picked up at the gate (will call), and will be non-transferable. Test run for new system next year?
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Roberto Dobbisano » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:15 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:


this one is OLD i want a FRESHIE!!!





i'm working on it, you impatient fuck.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby lemur » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:17 pm

Mofessor wrote:low income tickets will require financial documentation, can only be picked up at the gate (will call), and will be non-transferable. Test run for new system next year?


get clued in!


the new low income program combines aspect of the two previous low income/scholarship programs into one

the previous system required that the 'scholarship' tickets were not transferable and you needed to pick them up at will call.

this is nothing new.. no test runs, no conspiracies, just more of the same.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby CornMan » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:19 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:trilo i could care less about all of that shit.....you did not answer MY question.

so, when DOES the "Hitler Reacts to the Lottery System HyperDemand(tm)" video come out?


I was wondering about that too, or the one with the type in the dialogue.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby matt_kicks » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Having people apply for their tickets seems exponentially more feasible than having names printed on tickets. Spend 30 minutes filling out an application about what the event means to you or what you'll bring to the event if you're a first timer. Have a team of volunteer mods to read and review the applications to weed out the people who made no effort and scrub scammers/scalpers. Issue tickets until they are sold out.

Going by last years numbers, the demand for tickets isn't that much higher than the maximum number of permitted attendees. Creating a small barrier to entry that only requires a little bit of passion and effort seems like a good way to give priority to people who give a shit.
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Re: well it looks like it failed.

Postby Mofessor » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:42 pm

where's the outcry from BMORG's civil libertarians about having to provide financial documentation, surely something more invasive than an ID check.
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