2012 : Take back Burning Man

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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby kingtom » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:12 am

I will feed the pig no more.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby DrYes » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:35 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Burning Man is fine just the way it is?


Nope, you're not.

The amount of whining and complaining is incredible, particularly since we're talking about First World Problems here, not real problems.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Nipple » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:40 am

OK, assume I've taken Burning Man.

What do I do with it, now that I have it?
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:41 am

Nipple wrote:OK, assume I've taken Burning Man.

What do I do with it, now that I have it?

You "take" it.
In a p0rn sense.
Oh you like that don't you?
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:42 am

Wine it, dine it, sing a serenade or two...
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"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri


Get a Taint, you pathetic cur!
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:09 pm

Hey Steel Kitty,

That .38 is my life! Thanks for the laugh. I'm a big tilter of windmills.

I think getting anywhere near BM12 will be impossible. My original reaction was that our camp would set up just over the perimeter fence, which would be super cool, but quite impossible. But we are looking into having an alternate event fairly close by and at the same time...Pyramid Lake perhaps. I envision other theme camps there of like mind that burners could visit on their way to the burn.

When we get more info on the viability, I'll drop you a line, see if you're interested in participating.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:33 pm

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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Rice » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:49 pm

How about getting involved in the actual operation of Burning Man?? Volunteer, see how complicated gate is or ride on some Perimeter shifts, work a exodus shift or two... You know, Participate.

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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:59 pm

That's a confusing derail...who here doesn't already do that in some form or another?
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Rice » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:06 pm

This Woman wrote:That's a confusing derail...who here doesn't already do that in some form or another?


Guess it depends on what one believes is participating...
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:27 pm

Don't be obtuse - who are you speaking of? Steel Kitty, who authored the post? Me, Stretch or Ugly Dougly who have most recently commented?

It doesn't really matter who because you have just made a big old unsubstantiated (and probably incorrect) assumption about whoever it was...and unless "getting involved with the operation" somehow grants one access to tickets, it was off topic besides. That's why I called it a derail.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Rice » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:45 pm

Not surprisingly, I am confused...

The land outside the city, around the trash fence is an exclusion zone. So, yah, that would be a bad plan (federal trespassing ticket, etc...).

If one wanted to camp outside the exclusion zone, sure - knock yourself out (still going to have a conversation or two with the BLM Park Rangers)


I guess I am old enough to realize that stuff changes. Nothing is the same as it was... It is unrealistic to expect Burning Man to be any different.

It is unfortunate that the ticket costs have gone up. Sorry!

I am not completely sold on the ticket sales scheme for the 2012 burn. I suspect it will be just as interesting to watch as when the tickets sold out for 2011...


Hmm, I read something about needing a permit to camp near Pyramid Lake. (Is that what I was derailing?? I thought thread-drift was expected?)

Anyhow, be sure to treat Burning Man better than in the past. All that complaining about how crowded she is, that her cost has gone up... Maybe her feelings are hurt. Did she leave you, or did you kick her out?

- dammit, again confused.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Ugly Dougly » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:17 pm

Don't be a passive consumer.

"We lead lives that are deadeningly passive. Everyone is sorted out in a seperate stall, like cattle in a feed-lot. Every time anything like real culture is produced by a creative community it's expropriated and flogged in the media and turned into a cliche - it used to be six years, now it's six months it's getting down to six weeks." -- Larry Harvey
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:34 pm

First and foremost, I must laugh and point at myself for including you in my question of who you were talking about. What a nudge.

Now, to respond to your last –

I figured on some kind of exclusion zone, and thus noted the impossibility of camping right outside the fence – only mentioned how cool it would be. There’s actually very good reasons for an exclusion zone, so not at all surprised there.

2012 ticket sales will be fascinating to watch for me as well, but from afar. The lottery is so diametrically opposed to what the organizers have always said the event is about (self reliance, creative expression) that it sticks in my craw. They are a business – they can change it however they want. I can go find a service more suited for me…or create one.

I’m talking about an event at Pyramid on a way (way, way) smaller scale, but still an event, permits, insurance, porta potties included. I have some administrative event experience and more importantly, expert event holders I can consult with.

I said you were derailing because you implied that I do not participate, and that if I did I’d change my tune. Participation has nothing to do with the ticket lottery or my attitude toward it. Not only do I participate with a long running theme camp but, I’ve been a ranger for two years and a greeter once. I have also gone to county commissioner meetings back in the old days when Washoe Co. was trying to force BMOrg out of NV, and even did analysis on dollars that burners contribute to Washoe Co. In my experience, most burners participate – even brand new ones – oftentimes so do burners who’ve never even been to the burn.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby Rice » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:04 pm

This Woman wrote:First and foremost, I must laugh and point at myself for including you in my question of who you were talking about. What a nudge.

Now, to respond to your last –

I figured on some kind of exclusion zone, and thus noted the impossibility of camping right outside the fence – only mentioned how cool it would be. There’s actually very good reasons for an exclusion zone, so not at all surprised there.

2012 ticket sales will be fascinating to watch for me as well, but from afar. The lottery is so diametrically opposed to what the organizers have always said the event is about (self reliance, creative expression) that it sticks in my craw. They are a business – they can change it however they want. I can go find a service more suited for me…or create one.

I’m talking about an event at Pyramid on a way (way, way) smaller scale, but still an event, permits, insurance, porta potties included. I have some administrative event experience and more importantly, expert event holders I can consult with.

I said you were derailing because you implied that I do not participate, and that if I did I’d change my tune. Participation has nothing to do with the ticket lottery or my attitude toward it. Not only do I participate with a long running theme camp but, I’ve been a ranger for two years and a greeter once. I have also gone to county commissioner meetings back in the old days when Washoe Co. was trying to force BMOrg out of NV, and even did analysis on dollars that burners contribute to Washoe Co. In my experience, most burners participate – even brand new ones – oftentimes so do burners who’ve never even been to the burn.


I hope you can make your plans happen! If you organize it, will they come???

I was not implying that you did not participate. It was a general statement.

It is unfortunate that the new ticket scheme will by it's nature exclude some people.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby tamarakay » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:30 pm

AntiM wrote:Also, the BLM begins to close off the main even area sometime just after juplaya. I don't know the exact date, but they will evict you. Forcefully and with glee if you're unlicky.


How in the world did you get by with unlicky?
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby AntiM » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:29 pm

tamarakay wrote:
AntiM wrote:Also, the BLM begins to close off the main even area sometime just after juplaya. I don't know the exact date, but they will evict you. Forcefully and with glee if you're unlicky.


How in the world did you get by with unlicky?


Rhymes with ticky, I guess.

Camping at Pyramid does indeed, require a tribal permit. You may only camp overnight on the west shore, the east shore is day use only, except for tribal members.

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/camping-pyramid-lake-nevada-4882.html
we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:02 am

If you organize it, will they come???


Not a motivating factor, but if I organize it and they come, I'll be ready. :D
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby whatup » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:43 am

BetaBox wrote:Honestly If i can't get a ticket, no one can. shut down BRC. Park 1000 cars/bodies right outside gerlach on the highway. Small ticket for great fun. Clusterfuck to end all clusterfucks. Are there really that many tow trucks? /end_snark

like coventry....they'll leave the cars if they don't want a REAL clusterfuck at the end.

really not liking the energies that are beginning to surround this event, and was incredibly excited about this year....and jersey shore....FILMING! it was one thing for them to go, but to film their show there. ridiculous
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby shykat » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:31 am

whatup wrote:
BetaBox wrote:Honestly If i can't get a ticket, no one can. shut down BRC. Park 1000 cars/bodies right outside gerlach on the highway. Small ticket for great fun. Clusterfuck to end all clusterfucks. Are there really that many tow trucks? /end_snark

like coventry....they'll leave the cars if they don't want a REAL clusterfuck at the end.

really not liking the energies that are beginning to surround this event, and was incredibly excited about this year....and jersey shore....FILMING! it was one thing for them to go, but to film their show there. ridiculous



What you talking about Willis...
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby RedHeaven » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:30 am

AntiM wrote:
Dr. Pyro wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Burning Man is fine just the way it is?


Mostly.



I think we're all f**King privileged, actually.
Why get all political on the actual BMan event, when we could be putting those efforts on bringing the playa to the world? Forget bringing the world to the playa, it's time for the next phase. The Burning in our Hearts.....Let it go, let it shine, hippehs! 8)
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby TheJudge » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:37 pm

You people are so cute.

Any porta-potties out there on the 4th of July?
Any medic tent?
Any water trucks?
Any streets?
Central shade structure?
Fire suppression?

Do you really think its as easy as just showing up in the desert and declaring a party? That's exactly what they did in the early years. And then the BLM and Washoe and Pershing Counties all got dollar signs in their eyes and realized they could finally get those nifty toys they've been wanting for so long.

If you have a party with 100 people, no one is going to give a shit. When you have an event with 50,000, you need to have an infrastructure. That infrastructure costs money.
And then you are mandated by the government to have certain things in place like a detailed plan for dealing with contingencies (like a propane tank explosion, or a heavy rain that turns the dry lake back into a wet one), a clean-up plan, a policy about hygene and food preparation, and about a hundred other things that you would never even think of.
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:03 pm

We’re cute? You’re positively adorable!

Naysayer, know thyself. Nobody ever said anything would be easy, that presumption is all yours. You scoff in one sentence and admit that’s exactly how it was done in the next – adorable! There actually is already an event in place; it’s already being done. That’s how hard it is. And yes, it costs money and yes, it takes planning – just like any other adventure.

Do you really think that Larry Harvey et al had any inkling how to hold a 50,000 head count event that fateful night he went to burn an effigy on a beach?
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby tamarakay » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:10 pm

Some would argue he still doesn't.
When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

Mmmmmm I love the smell of Burning Man - Token

Getting overly dramatic about the ticket sale process is so 2012. - Maladroit


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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby TheJudge » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:12 am

tamarakay wrote:Some would argue he still doesn't.



ZING! :lol:


Seriously, go knock yourself out. Have an event on the playa. When it gets big enough, (in other words, when it is seen as a money making opportunity for the various government agencies) expect to have BLM pay you a visit.

Or they could just show up at the event, declare it unauthroized (since you didnt get a specific public use permit to hold an event on public land) and demand that you pay them the money they now say you owe. (Similar to what happened in 1997)
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby lemur » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:30 am

if 'rumor control' isnt part of your contingency plan.. youre doing it wrong!!!!


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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby tamarakay » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:22 am

TheJudge wrote:
tamarakay wrote:Some would argue he still doesn't.



ZING! :lol:


Seriously, go knock yourself out. Have an event on the playa. When it gets big enough, (in other words, when it is seen as a money making opportunity for the various government agencies) expect to have BLM pay you a visit.

Or they could just show up at the event, declare it unauthroized (since you didnt get a specific public use permit to hold an event on public land) and demand that you pay them the money they now say you owe. (Similar to what happened in 1997)


Perhaps I should have put some smiley's on it to show the joking nature of the post?
When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby TheJudge » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:08 am

tamarakay wrote:
Perhaps I should have put some smiley's on it to show the joking nature of the post?



Yup. 8)
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby This Woman » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:02 pm

I got it...but decided not to respond Touche! with or without smileys. :D
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Re: 2012 : Take back Burning Man

Postby vargaso » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:13 pm

Steel Kitty wrote:Two hundred square miles of playa don't get shut down, only the area leading into where BM locates the event.

There are myriad number of ways to get on/off the playa without going through Gerlach. It's a bit more complicated, but the roads are gravel and not too bad.

Go north of the event site by about 40 miles and it's flat, beautiful and amazing.


All public land in the Black Rock Desert and the Smoke Creek area are under the same restrictions as Burning Man during the BM event. You can still go there but expect a lot of LEO interaction, which is not necessarily a bad thing, just mentioning it.


UPDATE: Sorry, the document I saw was for 2011, I wouldn't be surprised if the same restrictions (if not more) will be in place this year.
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