Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Rice » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:19 pm

bradtem wrote:Does anybody have a copy of the actual legal contract terms of the main sale? I don't readily see them on the web site. Did they include a clause prohibiting resale at more than face value? (Such clauses may or may not be enforceable in some jurisdictions, and are already the law in others.) Did they contractually promise a physical ticket by a certain date?


Maybe this?? http://tickets2.burningman.com/info.php?i=2386

It does mention the ticket release date. Since scalping is not against the law in certain states, I believe that they cannot limit ticket resale prices. (I could be wrong and have not read the whole page yet...)

Enjoy
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby bradtem » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:38 pm

stretch80 wrote:
bradtem wrote:Does anybody have a copy of the actual legal contract terms of the main sale? I don't readily see them on the web site. Did they include a clause prohibiting resale at more than face value? (Such clauses may or may not be enforceable in some jurisdictions, and are already the law in others.) Did they contractually promise a physical ticket by a certain date?


Maybe this?? http://tickets2.burningman.com/info.php?i=2386

It does mention the ticket release date. Since scalping is not against the law in certain states, I believe that they cannot limit ticket resale prices. (I could be wrong and have not read the whole page yet...)

Enjoy


My error. I saw this but thought they were the usual terms about going to Burning Man. They have added a bunch about the random buy, including BMOrg's right to cancel any ticket for any reason they like, and an explicit authority to cancel any ticket because of scalping.

Though BMOrg has said they will not undo the lottery, it seems this contract in theory gives them the power to do so. However, I concur that should they try to exercise this power they could get in some trouble as it's beyond the scope of the intent of this clause, which is really about cancellation of tickets for individual circumstances in my estimation. However, they could certainly institute a system of cancelling tickets for anybody who scalps.

Of course, the 2 tickets per person rule actually makes it harder to crack down on scalpers. For example, if somebody bought 6 tickets and was found scalping one, they might well have the other 5 cancelled and refunded. Of course, knowing this, scalpers would not buy in really large blocks but probably would buy in blocks larger than 2, since they have to produce a different address and credit card for each block.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Nevadascott » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:15 pm

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:22 pm

*snort*
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Killbuck » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:16 am

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby WildCherry__ » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:35 am

Does anyone here know about this "freezer burn" ? when and where is it happening and how do you get tix etc? if we dont get the tix on march 28th we are going to try to go to freezer burn
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Rice » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:43 am

WildCherry__ wrote:Does anyone here know about this "freezer burn" ? when and where is it happening and how do you get tix etc? if we dont get the tix on march 28th we are going to try to go to freezer burn

Hi,

I have gone to Freezer Burn the last two years :) I drive there from Saskatoon.

Here is the URL for their website: http://www.freezerburn.org/

If your in facebook, here is the URL to the Alberta Regional BM group (Alberta Regional Burning Man): https://www.facebook.com/groups/170599206330089/

The facebook page for Freezer Burn 2012 is: https://www.facebook.com/events/175516002514940/

It is a good taste of the Burning Man culture, the location is amazing and it is a blast.

I think the tickets go on sale before March (sorry brain fart & unable to quickly find info online)...

Since you are fairly close, why not attend both??
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby remi » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:05 pm

stretch80 wrote:
WildCherry__ wrote:Does anyone here know about this "freezer burn" ? when and where is it happening and how do you get tix etc? if we dont get the tix on march 28th we are going to try to go to freezer burn

Hi,

I have gone to Freezer Burn the last two years :) I drive there from Saskatoon.

Here is the URL for their website: http://www.freezerburn.org/

If your in facebook, here is the URL to the Alberta Regional BM group (Alberta Regional Burning Man): https://www.facebook.com/groups/170599206330089/

The facebook page for Freezer Burn 2012 is: https://www.facebook.com/events/175516002514940/

It is a good taste of the Burning Man culture, the location is amazing and it is a blast.

I think the tickets go on sale before March (sorry brain fart & unable to quickly find info online)...

Since you are fairly close, why not attend both??



I'm hoping to make the freezer burn and BM this year.. Hope to see you guys at both!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Water Dog » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:09 pm

I'm not even a virgin yet. It's weird having been allotted tix.

Some of you might remember I posted a worry that I'd be deemed a scalper because my lottery application info would not be recognized because I had never attended. But I got the two tix that my GF and I sought (and because we only put in for 2, no extras to sell or give away).

So I'm getting the news that only a minority of the burners that bring and create the large sculptures and art cars got tix and are understandably having trouble planning, and that a lot of new burners are expected. It's funny, but I feel a little guilty being part of perhaps the largest group that caused the shortage. You guys create a cool party and invite all, and now a lot of us new-comers seem to be keeping you out. Ouch--all the way around!

For those of you interested, I had not heard or seen the "Oh, The Places You'll Go" until after I put in for the lottery. You guys had just created a lot of cool buzz through word-of-mouth, which I've heard for at least 15 years, most notably from my Cosmic Buddy--Bob--who I met on a commercial salmon seiner in AK in '86. I think he's burned at BRC 15 or 20 times.

I'm sure I speak for most of us newcomers that we just wanted to join you, not replace you. My squeeze and I had planned to leave our expectations at home. That's going to be a bigger challenge than I thought.

But in the meantime, we'll just continue to plan, gather, build and pack so that we can bring our modest virgin offerings with an open camp, assorted clothes, interesting bicycles, simple gifts, and, despite the raging storm, smiles.

Sending bright light to all of you . . .
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby trilobyte » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:54 am

It's a good plan, keep getting ready Water Dog. Congrats on the ticket win, hopefully in the weeks ahead a lot of those determined to go are able to secure the tickets they're looking for and the camps that are struggling are able to adapt and find their way forward.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:03 am

Water Dog wrote:It's funny, but I feel a little guilty being part of perhaps the largest group that caused the shortage. You guys create a cool party and invite all, and now a lot of us new-comers seem to be keeping you out. Ouch--all the way around!

Please don't. I'm sorry there have been so many dogs in the manger, but I urge you not to focus on that.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby wraith » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:58 am

theCryptofishist wrote:
Water Dog wrote:It's funny, but I feel a little guilty being part of perhaps the largest group that caused the shortage. You guys create a cool party and invite all, and now a lot of us new-comers seem to be keeping you out. Ouch--all the way around!

Please don't. I'm sorry there have been so many dogs in the manger, but I urge you not to focus on that.


Seriously. Go. Have fun. I hope it's a blast!

The folks who are bitter right now because they got burned will be back next year with the realization that getting to the playa is no longer possible while playing nice or by the rules. This probably wasn't the message the BMorg wanted to send, but it's what's been transmitted and received.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Water Dog » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:18 am

Thanks, guys. Hope to see you there.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Bull Bunny » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:18 am

Good morning Siblings.
I've read all the announcements thus far, but a major issue remains unaddressed. The efforts of the BMORG to "fix" the serious ticketing problems this year is appreciated even by those of us who will likely not be getting tickets this year, however, there is a viable solution that will actually fix the root of the problem. Every ticket for this year's event is still in the possession of BMORG, and it's not too late to implement a simple plan that will return at least 10,000 ticket to the community for distribution. As we all know, scalpers/speculators and over-ordering Burners account for at least 20% of tickets orders this year. (probably a very concervative estimate) Many people classified as "Virgins" are in fact Scalpers who should not reap the benefits of "Inclusion." The Organization need only send a simple email to "winners" of tickets requiring a name and I.D. to go with each ticket received. A one-week registration period would allow plenty of time to reply. Once the tickets are attached to a particular person no tranfer is allowed, but must be returned to the STEP program for distribution/refund. Any ticket not identified with an individual within the registration period is automatically refunded and the ticket itself becomes available on STEP. This simple option solves a couple of major problems. First, it exposes obvious scalpers and takes tickets out of their hands. And second, it removes control of over-ordered tickets from individuals and returns control to the Organization. "Gifting" remains an excuse for not taking this kind of action, however "gifting" in past years was easy when there were so many tickets that people just gave them away. No so now! Gifting can still take place for those with extra tickets; they merely need to decide to whom they're giving tickets and identify them to the Organization. It's obvious that the "open sale/directed sale" and it's focus on theme camps/vehicles/art will leave the vast majority of the remaining 10,000 tickets out of regular burner's hands. Simply choosing to do nothing about Scalpers, hoping that all those tickets will come down in price closer to the event is irresponsible in the extreme when there's a solution staring you right in the face.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby bradtem » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:14 pm

While the burning man contract allows them to cancel a ticket for any reason, that's boilerplate and not quite as strong as you would like. So there might be a risk to such an approach, because now you are telling people, "what you bought is not what we advertised." It's not enough to tell them they can get a refund. People can (legitimately or otherwise) talk about the plans they have made based on winning -- rentals reserved with deposits, plane tickets booked, gear purchased. You might pull off a retroactive change of terms but I would want a firm legal opinion before trying to do that. On top of that, everywhere else, everybody knows a flexible, transferable ticket is worth more money than one with restrictions on it. Try looking at the cost of a refundable plane ticket compared to one you can't change. Like I said, you would want some solid legal precedents and I suspect that's why BMOrg decided there was no way to go back on what was done, even when it became clear what chaos would follow. Indeed, they knew they had the huge number of lottery applications before they did the drawing, and I have to guess they even wished back then they could have been given a do-over.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Mosquitopilate » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:05 am

Does anybody have a clue when the STEP register Emails start ? is it on the 29th or before ? :?:
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Rice » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:14 am

Mosquitopilate wrote:Does anybody have a clue when the STEP register Emails start ? is it on the 29th or before ? :?:


Uh, from http://tickets.burningman.com :

SECURE TICKET EXCHANGE PROGRAM (STEP)
UPDATE: STEP will open on February 29, 2012. Anyone anyone who purchased tickets in either the Pre-Sale or Main Sale may sell back tickets using STEP, but only those who registered in the Main Sale and did not receive tickets may purchase tickets through STEP.

STEP will give ticketholders a no-hassle way to sell their unwanted tickets back to Burning Man for resale. People who registered in the Main Sale and did not receive tickets will be eligible to purchase tickets via STEP at the cost they were resold to Burning Man. These tickets will be one per person (if you have purchased any tickets through either the Pre-Sale or Main Sale, you will not be eligible), will be non-transferrable, and held at Will Call. Full details will be posted here and through the Jack Rabbit Speaks email newsletter.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Isotopia » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:31 pm

Turning a bunch of newbs loose out there without experienced role-models and builders, though, that's just stupid.

There is a balance to be struck, and it's too important to leave to chance. Or so I think.


Did you stop to think just how fucking patronizing this comes across as?
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Isotopia » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:31 pm

Or so I think.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Rice » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:49 pm

Isotopia wrote:Or so I think.

You are not the only one to think that!

Some virgin burners contribute fantastic things to BRC and some veteran burners contribute very little.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Doriangrey » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Sorry if this question has already been answered. How are the STEP registrants chosen to buy a ticket assuming there are more people seeking a ticket than tickets available.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Mitch » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:17 am

stretch80 wrote:
Isotopia wrote:Or so I think.

You are not the only one to think that!

Some virgin burners contribute fantastic things to BRC and some veteran burners contribute very little.



It DOES sound patronizing, but it's also very true. A newbie is just not going to bring along a fully functioning, LNT-compliant, interactive, fun, week-long project.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Raymaker » Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:34 am

Doriangrey wrote:Sorry if this question has already been answered. How are the STEP registrants chosen to buy a ticket assuming there are more people seeking a ticket than tickets available.

First you have to have been registered to buy a ticket in the general sale, then your sent an email asking you to confirm you want to be in the STEP process, then depending on how quickly you confirm that, it is first come, first served, then you wait for a single ticket to become available. I believe that is correct.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:53 am

That's roughly what I think as well. Full details haven't been released, so it is a little confusing to put together.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Doriangrey » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:01 am

Thank you for replying, I understand the registering part, first come first served. Does everyone received the email notification at the same time and what time is that? First come first served is that based on the day you submitted your lottery application or how fast you can reply to the email? If you have a super fast computer don't you also have an advantage if it is first come. Enlighten me please, people who entered numerous times under different names, addresses, credit cards still get more chances at the STEP program although only 1 ticket. I was a virgin last year loved BM, volunteered for Lamplighters, Trojan Horse, and Spam Kebobs, Pink Heart ride, and other stuff, and I really want to go again this year but the ticket fiasco is disheartening and I don't think I have a chance in hell.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:26 am

The ticket situation is disheartening.
Like I said, I really don't know the answer to that question. Since some people get the Jack Rabbit Speaks after others have, I don't think everyone will get the notification at the same time. (Perhaps, since it's a smaller list, that won't be a factor...)
And, I agree that those who entered twice or more will have more chances is unfair. I'm not sure that there's anything they can do about that...
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby ZaphodBurner » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:14 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:And, I agree that those who entered twice or more will have more chances is unfair. I'm not sure that there's anything they can do about that...



They can dispense with the notion that Burners are somehow morally, ethically or intellectually superior than their self-absorbed capitalist counterparts in mainstream America.

For starters. 'Cause they're not. This is abundantly evident on the sides of the highway after any Burning Man. It's only when resources become finite or radical self reliance becomes inconvenient that people's true character comes out.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby gyre » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:05 pm

While many people have openly said they applied for twice as many tickets as they needed, it is clear that a stunning number of hardcore people only applied once.

The low return numbers of tickets in many camps show this.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby junglesmacks » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:09 pm

I got my tier one ticket that I was denied for from a burgin friend that unbeknownst to us registered 3 times for 6 tickets.. and won all 6 tickets at tier one.. and gave every single ticket except 2 (one for him and one for his girl) to a veteran burner that was denied in the lottery for face value.

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby paulo999 » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:40 pm

Someone mentioned Glastonbury earlier - it's an event I work at and know well. I thought I'd write a few words about how ticketing works there, for those of you that are curious...

Glastonbury Ticketing

For decades, if more people wanted to come than there were tickets, many just came anyway and jumped over the fence. Finally, after a crazy number on site in 2000, the authorities said enough is enough.

The organisers commissioned a $3m custom fence that remains pretty much inpenetrable.

This then drove the scalping market. It is arguable though how significant this ever was. I'd guess maybe a maximum of 5% of the tickets were bought by scalpers. If the event was 2x oversubscribed, scalpers weren't the 'cause' of the shortage (IMHO).

Nonetheless, scalpers infuriated organisers and ticket buyers alike.

In 2005, the organisers printed names on tickets. That was easily foiled - people just brought fake IDs, scalpers provided copies of bank statements, utility bills etc etc.

In 2007, they made it way simpler, and harder to exploit - by printing photos on tickets. When you buy a ticket for Glastonbury, the submitted photo is tied to it. Then, all you have to do is remember to bring your face. :) You can cancel your ticket until about a month before, but after that, no refunds. Cancellations go back into a pool and get resold. One complication with this, for the organisers, was that they had to get software developed to handle the photo submissions, and also employ people to check each photo was of acceptable standard (no hats, etc etc).

The photo system has *almost* eliminated scalping. The occasional ebay ad appears, but is usually nuked within 24 hours. I don't know what the arrangement is between the organisers and ebay, but suffice to say they are pretty quick on take downs.
All of this only applies to the general public, and in a heavily oversubscribed year, maybe half or more people don't get tickets.

The general public do not build or perform (well, some have a go!), and in practical terms - unlike Burning Man - it would be very difficult for them to do so. If only because, since the mid-80s, the public can no longer bring vehicles into the site. RVs are outside the fence. Inside the fence is tents only. Which is what maybe 90% of people do.

At the public gates - entirely pedestrian by this point - the photos are checked, then people get wristbanded. On the first day, about 100,000 people pass through the turnstiles. Lines begin to form at about 5am, gates open at 8ish, and lines are usually cleared by about 2pm. There's a pass-out system for people needing to go back to their cars or return to RVs. The total public ticket allocation is 137,500. Each year, about 30% of these will be newbies (by pot luck, rather than design).

People performing / building come under crew allocations. Independent units submit their requirements, and get their crew tickets. People working for a crew regularly will get their ticket year after year. Some, with less 'heritage', might have to wait until much nearer the event to know, and may not get a ticket at all.

Crew do not pay for tickets. Some crew doing tech work or skilled build or 'regular work' like security or working in a cafe, are also paid to be there. Many others are volunteering for charities. They effectivey donate minimum wage, paid by the organisers, to the good cause running their crew. Big name performers play for knock down fees (e.g. 10% of commercial rate), small acts often play for free or just expenses. The total number of crew/performers/media et al is 40,000

-------------------

As you can see from the above, there's factors that make it incomparable with Burning Man. Particularly the distinction between crew and public, and the way they are ticketed. The one thing that *might* be transferrable is photos on tickets. It's not easy, indeed noone else has done it, but Glastonbury has proved it's possible - if only for that particular event. And even so, if BM is genuinely massively oversubscribed, that's not a silver bullet.
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