Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby unjonharley » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:52 am

lemur wrote:

a movie costs like $7+ for 2 hours



You have not been to a movie lately huh?
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Jewel Man » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:52 am

AntiM wrote:
Jewel Man wrote:Jesus, BMORG! Why don't you just claw my eyes out while you are at it? You bumped up the ticket prices way up. Talk about scalping I hope you are doubling the port-a-potties.


The tier ticket prices are up by no more than they have ever increased year to year. The low income is the same. The presale is higher, but that's been a given since they began it a couple years back, same or higher than gate tickets when they had them.

??????

Hmmm, how can you be so fucking calm about this. Let's review the facts -- unemployment is at record levels, wages have been cut, no inflation, college tuition in CA just went up 9%, everybody's house is under water, CA teachers are going to get laid off, city workers are on furloughs constantly yet a non-profit thinks its ok to jack up prices even though over all costs for goods and wages are down and their labor is almost all volunteer. Hey, I'm all for capitalism but call a spade a spade. BM is beyond a good source of living for less than 1% of the people working for the BMORG. Don't say you are doing it for the Arts. Every year the average price per person goes up but the services remain the same. Hmm, what is that smell. Oh, it is greed. I have smelled that cologne every time I have been near a CEO. All that said, they deserve to bathe in money, BM is one fucking great party!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby actiongrl » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:56 am

The services and cost of running Burning Man definitely do not stay the same. Compare the afterburn reports for some of the complexities. This thing gets more involved and evolved every year, and as awareness has increased, the workload has increased enormously. And supplies, materials, labor etc. are not fixed costs, they are subject to inflation as well.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby The Bee » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:57 am

tamarakay wrote:Yep, i'm entering every freaking drawing there is. As are most people i've checked in with.


There are only two drawings: the Pre-sale and the Main sale. If you can afford it, enter the pre sale and pay $420 per ticket. Otherwise, enter the main sale. If you enter the main sale, you will get awarded a ticket based on random selection. That means you will pay either $240 or $320 or $390 based on a random selection.

If you don't get a ticket in either of the drawings, then you buy one in March.

Last year tickets didn't sell out until what, June? July? This year it seems unlikely (but possible) that 43,000 tickets will be sold by the end of January. That means it's likely that you'll get a ticket in the main sale.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby actiongrl » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:58 am

By my math, The Bee is correct, hence the system we chose.
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Re: Million $$$ Bet!!!

Postby bradtem » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:59 am

ericthomasdavis wrote:Random selection? How can any of us ensure "random"

I bet a million dollars that if I say I would be willing to go up to 390$ on the main sale I will end up with $390$ tickets.

Anybody willing to match this bet or have the same "feeling" as I?

There was already talk in my house about fuck that, lets spend our time and money on other less stressfull efforts

Or maybe I should snap up as many tickets as I can and sell them on ebay or in the "Gerlach" area for 1000-2000-3000$ and walk away laughing with $$$ in the Bank and goto Amsterdam......


It is an interesting question. There are two ways you can run this, which I will spell out by just using two tiers to make it simpler.

a) Random pick all the tickets for tier one. If you said you would only pay tier one, you get no ticket. Then take the remaining people who said they would pay tier 2, and if there are too many, random pick from them.

b) Random pick for tier one first from the people who said tier-one-only. If there are any left (unlikely) fill the rest. Otherwise drop the losing T1-only, and conduct tier 2 from T2 folks.

System A gives the best odds to people who would pay both. System B increases the odds a bit for T1 onlies and reduces them for T2 folks. T2 folks definitely have a better chance at a ticket than T1 onlies in system A, and they probably still have a better chance under System B but that depends on the numbers as it could be the other way.

The big question in my mind is "what is the purpose of having tiers?" In the past, the idea was the poor, if they were particularly eager, could fight and claw and probably pay less for a ticket. Now it's different. Now the tiers are there to let people say, "I want to go to burning Man for $240, but if it's $390, sorry, I really can't afford it." I don't know how many people that applies to. I'm not convinced the tiers are particularly valuable, and think the right appraoch would be to sell 40,000 tickets for $326. It's vastly simpler to understand, and I think the number of people who would say, "You know, I was ready to go at $240 but it's not worth it at $326" is pretty minor.

But correct me if I'm wrong, if that's how you would think of it.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Just_Joe » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:01 pm

lemur wrote:..even at the highest $420 price youre still only paying $52 for each 24 hour period of fun..
a movie costs like $7+ for 2 hours
a general admission 1 day pass to the local big theme park with roller coasters and such near chicago is $60. (40 for kids!)..
and thats just one day!
burning man is cheaper than expensive amusement parks.. even at the highest cost one can pay.

Movie, theme park, brothel, blah, blah....
You hit the nail on the head. As a SPECTATOR, $390 is a good value.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Jewel Man » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:10 pm

actiongrl wrote:The services and cost of running Burning Man definitely do not stay the same. Compare the afterburn reports for some of the complexities. This thing gets more involved and evolved every year, and as awareness has increased, the workload has increased enormously. And supplies, materials, labor etc. are not fixed costs, they are subject to inflation as well.


As I said, inflation is zero and 99% of all BM labor is free. All service providers are dropping their prices just so they have work. Ask any carpenter. Nevada has one of the highest unemployment rates in the states. Yes the total dollars of cost might increase but so does the number of tickets sold so they cancel each other out. The average cost per person does not increase. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. There is a reason the financials of BM are kept top secret to preserve the myth. Face it, we are all puppets of Mr Harvey, aka Gordon Gekko.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:12 pm

Adding in a reply here to call out a couple edits I made to earlier posts, correcting information I'd posted.

On the subject of shipping…
Domestic shipping AND will call have a $12 cost (this is unchanged from previous years). Canadian orders can be shipped for a cost of $29, or go will call. All other international orders must go through will call. There are additional service fees, which have not been finalized. Once that's locked down, you can expect details to be posted on the site.

On the subject of ticket tiers…
You can not opt out of lower tiers. So if you say you can pay $390, you will be included that tier as well as the lower tiers.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:12 pm

Whatever it is he's smoking is laced with some nasty chemicals...
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby trilobyte » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:15 pm

Man, I wish I lived in one of those magic places with zero inflation and no increases in things like rent, utilities, insurance rates, fees, employee salaries, fuel and transportation costs, and so on...
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby AntiM » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:20 pm

Jewel Man wrote:
actiongrl wrote:The services and cost of running Burning Man definitely do not stay the same. Compare the afterburn reports for some of the complexities. This thing gets more involved and evolved every year, and as awareness has increased, the workload has increased enormously. And supplies, materials, labor etc. are not fixed costs, they are subject to inflation as well.


As I said, inflation is zero and 99% of all BM labor is free. All service providers are dropping their prices just so they have work. Ask any carpenter. Nevada has one of the highest unemployment rates in the states. Yes the total dollars of cost might increase but so does the number of tickets sold so they cancel each other out. The average cost per person does not increase. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. There is a reason the financials of BM are kept top secret to preserve the myth. Face it, we are all puppets of Mr Harvey, aka Gordon Gekko.


Inflation is NOT zero.

Andie doesn't drink the kool-aid, she makes it and hands it out. Ya gotta know the players, son.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby actiongrl » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:22 pm

Kool aid is disgusting and I never touch the stuff. I make cocktails, cups of tea, and really good risotto, but no koolaid.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Jewel Man » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:24 pm

trilobyte wrote:Man, I wish I lived in one of those magic places with zero inflation and no increases in things like rent, utilities, insurance rates, fees, employee salaries, fuel and transportation costs, and so on...


Apparently you are not self-employed. Why don't you do some research and ask someone who has their own business how much their fees have increased in the last 2 years and then come back to this board and make an informed opinion. In the mean time, keep your head deep in the playa, Mr Harvey is counting on it.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby AntiM » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:29 pm

actiongrl wrote:Kool aid is disgusting and I never touch the stuff. I make cocktails, cups of tea, and really good risotto, but no koolaid.


LOL, can I start a fan club?

And yes, kool aid is only good for coloring hair on the cheap.

(Now I feel slightly ashamed of myself....)
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:35 pm

AntiM wrote:kool aid is only good for coloring hair on the cheap.

Finally, something I can use in this sub-forum.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby VultureChow » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:38 pm

AntiM wrote:
actiongrl wrote:Kool aid is disgusting and I never touch the stuff. I make cocktails, cups of tea, and really good risotto, but no koolaid.


LOL, can I start a fan club?

And yes, kool aid is only good for coloring hair on the cheap.

(Now I feel slightly ashamed of myself....)


And as a non-toxic animal dye...

My poor poor cat...
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby pink » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:40 pm

Jewel Man wrote:
trilobyte wrote:Man, I wish I lived in one of those magic places with zero inflation and no increases in things like rent, utilities, insurance rates, fees, employee salaries, fuel and transportation costs, and so on...


Apparently you are not self-employed. Why don't you do some research and ask someone who has their own business how much their fees have increased in the last 2 years and then come back to this board and make an informed opinion. In the mean time, keep your head deep in the playa, Mr Harvey is counting on it.


I'm self-employed and my fees have gone up, since my software, office supplies, continuing education and licensing cost have all gone up. No inflation? What rock are you hiding under?
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Katiebaby25 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:43 pm

I find Burning Man to be a priceless experience and if you don't want to be a "Puppet of Larry Harvey" then maybe you shouldn't go!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby unjonharley » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:45 pm

Jewel Man wrote:
trilobyte wrote:Man, I wish I lived in one of those magic places with zero inflation and no increases in things like rent, utilities, insurance rates, fees, employee salaries, fuel and transportation costs, and so on...


Apparently you are not self-employed. Why don't you do some research and ask someone who has their own business how much their fees have increased in the last 2 years and then come back to this board and make an informed opinion. In the mean time, keep your head deep in the playa, Mr Harvey is counting on it.



In other words?? you wont be attending Burning Man??
My odds have just improved... Spin that random number generator!!!!!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby VultureChow » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:49 pm

pink wrote:
Jewel Man wrote:
trilobyte wrote:Man, I wish I lived in one of those magic places with zero inflation and no increases in things like rent, utilities, insurance rates, fees, employee salaries, fuel and transportation costs, and so on...


Apparently you are not self-employed. Why don't you do some research and ask someone who has their own business how much their fees have increased in the last 2 years and then come back to this board and make an informed opinion. In the mean time, keep your head deep in the playa, Mr Harvey is counting on it.


I'm self-employed and my fees have gone up, since my software, office supplies, continuing education and licensing cost have all gone up. No inflation? What rock are you hiding under?


Some things have gone up and some things down. Office, indutrial and retail rent is as cheap as I've ever seen it. Construction costs are down. Utilites, gas, food, services, insurance, health care costs all are up. Single family homes/condos, down. Multifamily rentals way up.

My only question concerning BM expenses is the payroll. $7 million seems very high, though that may have more to do with my lack of understanding regarding the number of and type of employees. I'm wondering if there will be more transparency with the non-profit, or if they will contract with the LLC and hide the details of some expenses that way.

Not that that would keep me from BM. I'm just curious.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Dustdevil » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:53 pm

I am self employed. I started my business in 1976 and it is still going strong. If anyone really believes that costs have not gone up over the past few years, they are sadly mistaken. Some of our business taxes have gone down, but that is because they are based on gross sales. Fuel for our trucks, repairs to our buildings, parts and service on our heavy machinery have all risen quite a bit. Now if you want to factor in health insuracne costs for the employees, I can punch really large holes in the argument that inflation is zero.
One quick example, the cost of pyro technic supplies has risen 45% in the last four years. Think about that next time you watch the Man burn or a show like Crude Awakening or the Flaming Lotus Girls pyro show.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby actiongrl » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:56 pm

There are about 30-35 last time I counted noses, plus some not-small number of paid staff on the seasonal front. That amount covers a lot of people.

My department's staff grew from 2.5 up to 4 in the past few years and yet we race every day to keep up with the demands of growing awareness and improved communications functions we must handle now. And there are other growing expenses to an ever increasing population --these days people demand enterprise-level responses, technology, etc. out of Burning Man's infrastructure, in addition to the annual experience in the city...but then are sometimes surprised to imagine the costs that involves. If you read all the reports along with the Financial reports, you begin to see a clearer picture.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby ygmir » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:57 pm

Jewel Man wrote:
As I said, inflation is zero and 99% of all BM labor is free. All service providers are dropping their prices just so they have work. Ask any carpenter. Nevada has one of the highest unemployment rates in the states. Yes the total dollars of cost might increase but so does the number of tickets sold so they cancel each other out. The average cost per person does not increase. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. There is a reason the financials of BM are kept top secret to preserve the myth. Face it, we are all puppets of Mr Harvey, aka Gordon Gekko.


but really, so what? to all you state.
Burning Man, is a private event. It's run, as the ORG wants. And, if they want profit (and maybe they keep a "slush fund" for emergencies, and add to it?), so the fuck what!
It's not your gig.
Come and play, and be ready to pay, to do so.
you have no "right", let alone entitlement, to go.
you are one of 50K ish people, who attend, or want to.
Don't like it? Don't go. Simple.
your narcissistic, self aggrandizing , self entitled diatribe, is obviously submitted, to garner you attention.
You have to know, no one cares about what you whine about, and, most of us just point and laugh.
Do you actually think, your statements, will change anything?

Really WTF?
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby VultureChow » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:02 pm

actiongrl wrote:There are about 30-35 last time I counted noses, plus some not-small number of paid staff on the seasonal front. That amount covers a lot of people.

My department's staff grew from 2.5 up to 4 in the past few years and yet we race every day to keep up with the demands of growing awareness and improved communications functions we must handle now. And there are other growing expenses to an ever increasing population --these days people demand enterprise-level responses, technology, etc. out of Burning Man's infrastructure, in addition to the annual experience in the city...but then are sometimes surprised to imagine the costs that involves. If you read all the reports along with the Financial reports, you begin to see a clearer picture.


Thanks. It's more curiosity than anything really. I'm VP of a commercial real estate property managment company, so I think it's just second nature to start running numbers through my head. I'm in budget season myself right now.

Plus you're in SF, with a really hight cost of living. North Jersey is pretty bad, but not as bad as SF.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Elderberry » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:29 pm

I think that's a pretty fair way of doing it, if it has to be done. I don't mind as much if I put in for the highest tier, as long as I have an equal chance of winning a lower tier ticket.


So it sounds like everybody will be in the tier one drawing. When all of those tickets are gone, they also eliminate everyone else that has not won a tier one ticket and had only said they could afford the first tier. Then the same thing would happen in the second and third tiers respectively. Correct?

trilobyte wrote:@littlejack - each tier is drawn for separately (my understanding is they're drawn lowest to highest). So if you check all three boxes and get awarded 2 tix at tier 1, you'd get charged the tier 1 price and be ineligible to get tickets at tier 2 or tier 3 (because you'd already hit your 2 ticket limit). Charged at the tier that you were selected in, not automatically at your max price. One registration per person, and you can not use the same credit card. Otherwise you should be okay, I'll see if I can get some additional clarification.

@Key Man - you can check one, two, or three ticket tiers. You will be charged for whichever tier you get awarded tickets in. And yes, tickets are transferrable (as they have been in previous years).

@jkisha - you can check one, two, or three ticket tiers. If you're willing to pay any price check all three boxes. You will be charged for whichever tier you get awarded tickets in. If you're in great financial shape and are willing and able to abstain from one of the lower tier drawings to help out those who have less, you can do that too. EDIT - I was totally wrong about that last bit, you can not 'opt out' of the lower tiers.

@VultureChow - life's full of chances, but with the level of advance planning and preparation you're at, you're way ahead of the game.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby lucky420 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:35 pm

ygmir
but really, so what? to all you state.
Burning Man, is a private event. It's run, as the ORG wants. And, if they want profit (and maybe they keep a "slush fund" for emergencies, and add to it?), so the fuck what!
It's not your gig.
Come and play, and be ready to pay, to do so.
you have no "right", let alone entitlement, to go.
you are one of 50K ish people, who attend, or want to.
Don't like it? Don't go. Simple.
your narcissistic, self aggrandizing , self entitled diatribe, is obviously submitted, to garner you attention.
You have to know, no one cares about what you whine about, and, most of us just point and laugh.
Do you actually think, your statements, will change anything?



That was awesome ygmir :mrgreen:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby sandgoddess » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:36 pm

ygmir wrote:
Jewel Man wrote: Burning Man, is a private event. It's run, as the ORG wants. And, if they want profit (and maybe they keep a "slush fund" for emergencies, and add to it?), so the fuck what!
It's not your gig.
Come and play, and be ready to pay, to do so.
you have no "right", let alone entitlement, to go.
you are one of 50K ish people, who attend, or want to.
Don't like it? Don't go. Simple.
your narcissistic, self aggrandizing , self entitled diatribe, is obviously submitted, to garner you attention.
You have to know, no one cares about what you whine about, and, most of us just point and laugh.
Do you actually think, your statements, will change anything?

Really WTF?
Play the game, or not.........go or not.......no one cares, but, we all welcome you, if you make it.


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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby -mystic- » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:58 pm

I was wrapping my brain around this trying to figure out why the prices vary so drastically. If memory serves, last year's tiers were stacked at $210, $240, $280, and $320...and now they're $240, $320, and $390. However, they bumped up the max of each tier to 10k at the first one and 15k for the remaining which seems to be a fair compromise. The ticket price increases sucks but it seems to be keeping up with inflation...as its been said before BM is a totally participatory event and if you're bent out of shape due to the way things are being handled, then don't participate. I am certainly as broke as everybody else but I'll make it work. Can't put a price on the community and the experience. I bitch about the BORG as much as the next person but I wouldn't want to be in their position because they have to make these "business" decisions that will not always be popular with burners...but they are decisions that must be made. It's not like anybody on the LLC board are high-powered execs at Goldman Sachs or Fannie Mae and they're certainly aren't as unscrupulous as them. My 2 cents.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Jewel Man » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:06 pm

ygmir wrote:
Jewel Man wrote:
As I said, inflation is zero and 99% of all BM labor is free. All service providers are dropping their prices just so they have work. Ask any carpenter. Nevada has one of the highest unemployment rates in the states. Yes the total dollars of cost might increase but so does the number of tickets sold so they cancel each other out. The average cost per person does not increase. Stop drinking the Kool Aid. There is a reason the financials of BM are kept top secret to preserve the myth. Face it, we are all puppets of Mr Harvey, aka Gordon Gekko.


but really, so what? to all you state.
Burning Man, is a private event. It's run, as the ORG wants. And, if they want profit (and maybe they keep a "slush fund" for emergencies, and add to it?), so the fuck what!
It's not your gig.
Come and play, and be ready to pay, to do so.
you have no "right", let alone entitlement, to go.
you are one of 50K ish people, who attend, or want to.
Don't like it? Don't go. Simple.
your narcissistic, self aggrandizing , self entitled diatribe, is obviously submitted, to garner you attention.
You have to know, no one cares about what you whine about, and, most of us just point and laugh.
Do you actually think, your statements, will change anything?

Really WTF?
Play the game, or not.........go or not.......no one cares, but, we all welcome you, if you make it.


Oh, I will play the game and win, you can count on it. I have worked my ass off for thirty years so I am more than able to pay to play and I will. It just sucks for the people out there who are not as fortunate as you and I. Last year they probably paid $260, this year probably $390 and if they are a family -- ouch. It is a great fucking week of camping and partying but each year it gets to be less and less a great time.
Jewel Man
 
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:14 pm

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