Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby bradtem » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:31 pm

trilobyte wrote:For people in that kind of business, there's a lot better opportunities with anything ranging from camping out for the next iPad launch, or any of hundreds of ticketed events happening every single month in every major city. Concert tickets, sporting events, anything with the potential to sell out and have a shorter turnaround would be a more enticing business opportunity. Especially considering the dim view that most participants take on scalping, versus other events. That's not to say there's a market for tickets over face value, it's just that the opportunities are much greater elsewhere. We'll see soon enough.


There are faster returns. But Burning Man is a rare bird, in that there are few events that deliberately sell a ticket below cost and well below the cost of other identical tickets, and which also sell out and have high post-sellout demand. There are events that sell their tickets for below what the market will bear to avoid the appearance of gouging their fans -- and this is what scalpers love best. For those events, getting the below-market items involves long waits in line, or tenacity.

While things are uncertain because we don't know how many people will follow the "enter the lottery more than you need and sell any surplus" strategy, a scalper will do well buying $240 tickets even though they have to hold on to them until June. The waiting period is a good anti-scalp technique though, because people want to know you have tickets in hand. On the other hand, I'm sure we'll see people (scalpers and burners) selling ticket "rights" with a photo of their screen or other receipt and a promise to send the actual ticket when it comes. You see this for certain limited quantity products that have pre-sales, but usually the wait is short then.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Just_Joe » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:50 pm

trilobyte wrote:@Mitch - the challenge for Joe Scalper is it requires either a massive cash outlay to the proxies, which would be tied up until ticket fulfillment in June.

Scalpers/brokers will reimburse their proxies when credit cards get dinged and they will also be selling tickets waaay before fullfilment.

You know those guys in the walled off RV encampments?
They don't want to mess with this lottery confusion. They want to get on the phone buy 2,4,or 20 tickets at $600 ea in February when they see all the "sold out" hoopla and be done with it.
As has been said, the ticket is a minor cost to the whole experience. When you're spending 11K on a one week RV rental, that's even more true.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:54 pm

No physical ticket in hand till June will discurage quit a few.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby remi » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:22 pm

FIGJAM wrote:No physical ticket in hand till June will discurage quit a few.


I must agree. Feel more confident about this system everyday.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby capjbadger » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:51 pm

trilobyte wrote:@capjbadger - the mistake you're making is that you're operating under the impression that buying the highest tier actually had a direct benefit on the disadvantaged. It did not. It helped offset the low tier ticket, which many people who could afford more saw as an advantage for planning ahead and buying early. If you really want to make sure you help someone who's disadvantaged, take the difference between what you actually pay and $390 and give it to a burner friend in your social circle who's struggling. Find someone who could only bid $240 and didn't get lucky, and offer to help them cover that gap so they can afford to buy at $390 in the secondary sale. :mrgreen:

I think you miss the point I was making. :)
Every person that bought the higher tier tickets is one less person not in the pool for the drawing for the lower tier tickets, thus improving the odds of someone else getting those tickets. Why force people to be in the lower tier pool? I don't see the logic in it. Give people the ability to opt out of the lower tiers to improve the odds for others.
I know they are few and far between, but there are some that would rather not decrease the odds for those lower tier tickets for others.

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Key Man » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:25 am

Trilobyte, are 2 or more members of a household (or 2 or more people with the exact same address) both/all allowed to buy in the pre, main, and open sales?

What about family members with the same address and same last name - does that make any difference? What about a husband and wife with different surnames (my situation)?

I ask because it seems that with larger households there is more potential for abuse or hoarding, yet it wouldn't seem to make sense to restrict people in the same household since some families go as a group, and there are households with friends and room mates that all attend, together or separately.

Thanks for your patience and help on this thread
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby trilobyte » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:45 am

@capjbadger - Perhaps that will be a possibility in future years' events, but that is not an option for the 2012 event. You don't have to see the logic or even like it, I'm just explaining how it works.

@Key Man - The registration limit is per person, not per address. Family members/housemates can register from the same address, but they must use individual credit cards.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby A Jester » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:58 am

trilobyte wrote:For people in that kind of business, there's a lot better opportunities with anything ranging from camping out for the next iPad launch, or any of hundreds of ticketed events happening every single month in every major city. Concert tickets, sporting events, anything with the potential to sell out and have a shorter turnaround would be a more enticing business opportunity. Especially considering the dim view that most participants take on scalping, versus other events. That's not to say there's a market for tickets over face value, it's just that the opportunities are much greater elsewhere. We'll see soon enough.



This.

While the scalper is waiting for that 18% return on their investment, they have locked up their money and can't scalp other events. Plus, it's really easy to say "this event will surely sell out and people will be willing to pay $400 for a ticket" when you aren't committing thousands of dollars to tickets. But, if your lifeblood is scalping, and you have around 10 grand to play with, I somehow doubt that on the basis of one sellout and a market that is extremely anti-scalper, you'll pour your savings into this particular event. Why would you wait six months to find out if you made any money? Or why wait till the last minute to find out if you made a good profit, as opposed to just buying a ticket to Blue Man Group, or a football game, or the Back Street Boys Reunion tour? (Chill out Cryptofish, it's just a theoretical example).


This all seems like a bunch of Chicken Little stuff to me.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Dustdevil » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:33 am

.

While the scalper is waiting for that 18% return on their investment, they have locked up their money and can't scalp other events. Plus, it's really easy to say "this event will surely sell out and people will be willing to pay $400 for a ticket" when you aren't committing thousands of dollars to tickets. But, if your lifeblood is scalping, and you have around 10 grand to play with, I somehow doubt that on the basis of one sellout and a market that is extremely anti-scalper, you'll pour your savings into this particular event. Why would you wait six months to find out if you made any money? Or why wait till the last minute to find out if you made a good profit, as opposed to just buying a ticket to Blue Man Group, or a football game, or the Back Street Boys Reunion tour? (Chill out Cryptofish, it's just a theoretical example).


This all seems like a bunch of Chicken Little stuff to me.[/quote]

You are ignoring the human factor. Everyone has a different tolerance for risk. I know several people who resell tickets. Some do it as a side line and I know two who do it as a primary source of income. It all boils down to what they refer to as the "risk to rewards factor". Also, just like the odds makers, those who do it for a living study the trends and act accordingly. To the pros, the anti scalper sentiments are simply another factor in the decisions to buy or not. And BTW, $10K is a very small amount to the pros thus making a six month wait rather insignificant if the returns are justified. It is all about the bottom line.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby bradtem » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:51 am

Yes, the scalpers don't want to wait too long. Sellout confidence is high (though admittedly not 100% since higher prices will scare some away, the economy might scare others if there is another dip in particular, and some people claim they are even not going because they don't want to play the lottery game.)

Nonetheless a scalper can be pretty confident they will get $380 for a $240 ticket. Even if the event does not sell out, it will get to $390. So with $20 in ticket acquisition cost there is $120 profit on $260 which is attractive to a scalper. However, the event probably will sell out and tickets will probably be $500, possibly more, and so a $240 ticket is a no-brainer, even with a 4 month wait. You are sure to do decently and a high profit is fairly likely.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Mitch » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:20 am

bradtem wrote:You are sure to do decently and a high profit is fairly likely.



This was exactly my point (perhaps more succintcly put) as regards scalpers.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Mitch » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:36 am

From a 2005 Wall Street Journal article about ticket resellers:

The operator of a Web site called Ticket Frontier says he hires eight to 10 "pullers" at $20 an hour -- college students who work at their keyboards to purchase concert tickets online through Ticketmaster the moment the tickets go on sale to the general public. The operator, who says he pays taxes on his earnings, requested anonymity out of fear of being locked out of some his purchasing sources. He describes the competition to score tickets for popular performers as fierce. "I'm not just competing against brokers, I'm competing against every fan who decides to sell on eBay and Craigslist," he says. "It makes it tough. I wish I had 30 people pulling for me."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113658907268840218.html
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby unjonharley » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:44 am

Mitch wrote:From a 2005 Wall Street Journal article about ticket resellers:

The operator of a Web site called Ticket Frontier says he hires eight to 10 "pullers" at $20 an hour -- college students who work at their keyboards to purchase concert tickets online through Ticketmaster the moment the tickets go on sale to the general public. The operator, who says he pays taxes on his earnings, requested anonymity out of fear of being locked out of some his purchasing sources. He describes the competition to score tickets for popular performers as fierce. "I'm not just competing against brokers, I'm competing against every fan who decides to sell on eBay and Craigslist," he says. "It makes it tough. I wish I had 30 people pulling for me."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113658907268840218.html


At 20 pullers, That would be 40 tix if all come up on the lotto.. $20 an hour would eat that pretty fast.. Damn poor investment.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby lemur » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:46 am

the hours are pro rated..
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Mitch » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:59 am

unjonharley wrote:At 20 pullers, That would be 40 tix if all come up on the lotto.. $20 an hour would eat that pretty fast.. Damn poor investment.



It's their job...they'd just be told to register for the sale and then go onto the next thing they do.

In other words, there are networks already in place to deal with this kind of thing, so the incremental cost would be minor.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby lemur » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:01 pm

its 2011.. this is all either outsourced to china or just done automatically via some botnet
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby trilobyte » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:11 pm

I agree, I don't think proxies (or ticket pullers, as the 2005 article calls them) will be any more material a threat than they have been in years past. If anything, they'll be less of a threat (registration allows the ticket vendor the opportunity to scrub the list for known scalpers and their regular proxies). What could have been a significant problem with the old rules this year is the availability of ticket-buying bot software (not available in 2005, and not widely available enough to be a factor last year).

As far as profit opportunity, you're absolutely right in that a $240 investment is an easy return of at least $390. But that's still chump change to a scalper with a clue. In a big city, in any given week, there are half a dozen first come first serve on-sale events where the profit potential is no less than 3x more than face value. And once or twice a month, there are opportunities to get 10x (or more) over face.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby lemur » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:15 pm

i will punch a 13 year old in the face to be the first scalper buyer in line to a disney on ice event..
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby A Jester » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:15 pm

lemur wrote:i will punch a 13 year old in the face to be the first scalper buyer in line to a disney on ice event..



THAT'S TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO SAY, AND I WISH I HADN'T READ IT.


I'm in the office, dude. Seriously!

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:19 pm

I know those pants. They are the ones that say "I don't have the courage of my convictions to be a shirt-cocker." Look, no one forced you to wear those pants. Sure, you were poured into them at 7:28 this morning, but if you couldn't have wriggled out by 9:00 am, you could always have worn more appropriate ones on top of them.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby graidawg » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:31 pm

[quote="trilobyte"
the mistake you're making is that you're operating under the impression that buying the highest tier actually had a direct benefit on the disadvantaged. It did not. It helped offset the low tier ticket, which many people who could afford more saw as an advantage for planning ahead and buying early. If you really want to make sure you help someone who's disadvantaged, take the difference between what you actually pay and $390 and give it to a burner friend in your social circle who's struggling. Find someone who could only bid $240 and didn't get lucky, and offer to help them cover that gap so they can afford to buy at $390 in the secondary sale. :mrgreen:[/quote]

I am going to have this as my sig line fro now till the event! we have more than a few burners who can afford to DIRECTLY help other burners, this is a great way to do it. not me by the way i am paying for my own burn or not going.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Just_Joe » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:35 pm

Dustdevil wrote:.
And BTW, $10K is a very small amount to the pros thus making a six month wait rather insignificant if the returns are justified. It is all about the bottom line.


The 10K guys are just hobbyists and there will be tons of them playing.
There are 10+USA brokers who would pay ea pay $260 CASH in January for delivery of 100 tickets in June .
$260,000 to ~390,000 in 6 months (100% annualized return) would be considered a home run in almost any business.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby lemur » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:43 pm

weather man wrote:
Dustdevil wrote:.
And BTW, $10K is a very small amount to the pros thus making a six month wait rather insignificant if the returns are justified. It is all about the bottom line.


The 10K guys are just hobbyists and there will be tons of them playing.
There are 10+USA brokers who would pay ea pay $260 CASH in January for delivery of 100 tickets in June .
$260,000 to ~390,000 in 6 months (100% annualized return) would be considered a home run in almost any business.



1000 tickets!!

how about 10?

or 1 million!!!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby junglesmacks » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:44 pm

I love lamp.



Just putting that out there.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Key Man » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:56 pm

bradtem wrote:Yes, the scalpers don't want to wait too long. Sellout confidence is high (though admittedly not 100% since higher prices will scare some away, the economy might scare others if there is another dip in particular, and some people claim they are even not going because they don't want to play the lottery game.)

Nonetheless a scalper can be pretty confident they will get $380 for a $240 ticket. Even if the event does not sell out, it will get to $390. So with $20 in ticket acquisition cost there is $120 profit on $260 which is attractive to a scalper. However, the event probably will sell out and tickets will probably be $500, possibly more, and so a $240 ticket is a no-brainer, even with a 4 month wait. You are sure to do decently and a high profit is fairly likely.


I totally agree with everything you said and that's why I say: print names on tickets. Yes, new mechanisms will be needed, there will be hassles, it'll be more work if your plans change. But better in the long run.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby karli52 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:46 am

i just don't get how i buy tickets...
can someone just please give me a good instruction??

thanks!
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Eric » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:55 am

karli52 wrote:i just don't get how i buy tickets...
can someone just please give me a good instruction??

thanks!


* 2012 Ticket Info * 2012 Ticket FAQ *

Click the links above.
Survival Guide * First Timers Guide * Ticket Info

Regarding Ticket Scammers and Scalpers

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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby karli52 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:06 am

i really don't understand how to buy tickets for the event!
could someone please give me a instruction how to buy tickets?
thx
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby Sham » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:13 am

karli52 wrote:i really don't understand how to buy tickets for the event!
could someone please give me a instruction how to buy tickets?
thx

I hope this helps Karli. This should clear things up for you. :D
****************************************************
BURNING MAN 2012 TICKET INFORMATION

In an effort to create equal opportunity for participants to purchase tickets for Burning Man 2012, tickets will be sold via three different methods. There will be two rounds of tickets provided by a random-selection process, followed by one round of open ticket sales. We will also again offer a low income ticket program through special application. More information about the low income program will be posted soon.

I. PRE-SALE TICKETS -- 3,000 TICKETS SOLD VIA RANDOM SELECTION NOV/DEC 2011 -- $420 + s/h -- LIMIT 4 PER PERSON

A Pre-Sale round will be conducted in November/December 2011:

Participants seeking early access to full price tickets can register for the Pre-Sale during a two-week period from November 28 until December 11, 2011 (at 11:59pm PST).
Entrants will need to provide a valid credit or debit card number at the time of registration.
On or before December 19, a random drawing from the pool of entrants will be conducted to award 3,000 tickets at a Pre-Sale price of $420.
If you are awarded tickets, your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your tickets at that time.
Those who are awarded tickets will receive notification via email that their credit cards have been charged for their tickets, along with a gift certificate suitable for printing.
Any entrants who do not receive one of these Pre-Sale Tickets will automatically be entered into the Main Sale.

II. MAIN SALE -- 40,000 TICKETS SOLD VIA RANDOM SELECTION JANUARY 2012 -- $240/$320/$390 + s/h -- LIMIT 2 PER PERSON AT ALL TIERS

Participants will register for the Main Sale during a two-week period from January 9 until January 22 (at 11:59pm PST), 2012.
Entrants will need to provide a valid credit or debit card number at the time of registration.
On or before February 1, a random selection will be conducted to award 40,000 tickets as follows:
$240: 10,000 tickets
$320: 15,000 tickets
$390: 15,000 tickets
If you are awarded tickets, your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your tickets at that time.
All sales at all Tiers for the Main Sale are limit 2 per person.
Those who are awarded tickets will receive notification on February 1 via email that their credit cards have been charged for their tickets and at which pricing tier.
Any remaining tickets not claimed in the Main Sale will be moved into the allotment for the Secondary Open Sale.

III. SECONDARY OPEN SALE -- 10,000 TICKETS (INCLUDING ANY REMAINING TICKETS FROM MAIN SALE) -- MARCH 2012 -- $390 + s/h -- LIMIT 4 PER PERSON

Once the Main Sale is completed, 10,000 tickets will be held aside for open sale, plus any unclaimed tickets from the Main Sale.
These tickets will be sold until they are gone.

ALL physical tickets from ALL THREE sales (except those that were designated to be held at Will Call) will be mailed in June 2012.

GATE AND WALK-UP OUTLET SALES: Tickets will NOT be sold at the Gate to Black Rock City, nor at Walk-Up Outlets. We are indebted to our Outlets for their many years of service to our community - please continue to support them!

RESALE TICKETS: Burning Man plans to create a centralized online system to facilitate the resale of unwanted/unneeded tickets. More details will be announced soon.

LOW INCOME/SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAMS: These separate programs will be merged into a new program designed to combine the best of each for 2012. The total number of low-income tickets will be increased (from last year's total of 3,500) to serve more participants. Further details will be released after the Main Sale has begun.
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Re: Burning Man 2012 Tickets FAQ

Postby remi » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:28 am

^^Nice use of copy and paste... you could have just went like this:

LOOK AT http://tickets.burningman.com/ ... .which just so happens to be the first link when you google 'burning man tickets 2012'. I don't know why people find it easier to ask other people questions, rather then try to find it out themselvs. It's not rocket science.

Edit: So on the registration days, go to the burning man website and register by giving them information, and a valid cc with the ticket amount already available for withdrawl. Then just sit back and wait.
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