Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

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Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby doctorsoba » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:16 pm

Burning Man Project have you thought through the immense planning, financial investment, time and energy that goes into making the burn an epic experience? Placing one's ability to go on a chance lottery pull loses much of what makes BRC so unique. What about all the theme camps, artists and art car projects that take all year? Risk all that time, energy and money on the chance you won't get picked??? Absurd. FIRST COME FIRST SERVE is FAIREST to me because the energy put into getting tix first is part of the journey/planning. Ex: Coming from China (or Europe, or Montana)? Go ahead and book your rv rental/air tix/etc which you probably won't get a refund of your deposit on if you can't go or, wait till June to plan in case you don't get pulled in the lottery the other times. Oh and btw, if you don't get pulled, well it's still fair to all that are coming- and that time off work you got or people you got to watch your home/animals/kids etc who went out of their way to make time for you while on vacation, tell them it's fair too. NO LOTTO BURNING MAN! GET MORE SERVERS, MORE STAFF, WHATEVER- CREATE A BETTER SOLUTION TO YOUR SERVER/SELL OUT ISSUE.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby jkisha » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:39 pm

Frankly, I don't think it will prevent any of the people that get involved in the lottery early from getting a ticket...though the amount they will be paying will not be known until your number is actually picked. In that regard, those that were able to get online first and wait in the que will no longer have the opportunity to purchase a lower priced ticket. As I'm one of those people that enjoy the excitement and frustration of landing a ticket on the first day, I don't much care for the lottery idea. Just upgrade the servers and hardware to handle the rush, then first come, first served.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby FIGJAM » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:43 pm

I agree JK.

Why not fix the old system rather than have to debug an entirely new one?
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby atomosk » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:21 pm

I think the whole lotto system is a useless, unnecessary exercise. It seems like this in reaction to all the public freakout and expressions of desire for a new system that didn't allow for scalping when tickets sold out last year. But the system was working just fine, it was that a huge number of people were so used to having access to a secondary market where they could find cheap tickets at the last minute. It was not that the there was any problem with the official Burning Man ticket system, it was that the reliable secondary market for tickets was turned on it's head. People reacted and thought it was unfair and held huge implications for 2012, that people would buy above their need and it would sell out quickly and then the official market and the secondary market would both be unreliable.

However, the outcry died down when people realized it was insane to pay thousands for a ticket, that predictably there was a glut of tickets coming onto the secondary market closer to the event, driving the going price for a sold out burning man ticket to barely above the maximum official price. The secondary market normalized. There were generally enough tickets.

All the outcry and hand-wringing and madness over the sell out last year was because there was uncertainty about being able to get a ticket. Why are we moving to a system where the official market does not guarantee a ticket? There will still be some speculating for tickets for after market sale. There will still be an after market and it will be unpredictable.

All people really want is simple, reliable access to a ticket they can afford. The official ticket system does that.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby jkisha » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:46 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I agree JK.

Why not fix the old system rather than have to debug an entirely new one?


I totally agree. All that would be necessary would be to contract sales out to a ticket vendor that had experience with the numbers that we experience on the first day and the problem would be solved.
So, this must have been the thinking process...
Hmm...the vendor that handles our ticket sales is incompetent, how can we fix this?
Hmm...well maybe we need to change the entire ticket sales process.
Oh? How do you suggest we do that?
Hmmm...how about a lottery?
Hmm...sounds like a good idea, how do we do that?
Not sure yet; but we can worry about that on the first day of ticket sales.

Rather than...
Fire that fucking vendor and hire a competent one.

Hell, if they are worried about keeping the numbers down, just raise the cost of the tickets. Other than that, ticket vendors that sell for events much larger and with much heavier demand are out there. It's not like reinventing the wheel to make this work.

What's that old expression? "A ticket in the hand is worth two in the lottery."
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Isotopia » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:31 pm

Oh, this thread is so rich.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby supportlivemusic » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:51 pm

My boyfriend and I had been planning to make our first trek to Burning Man in 2012, but after the news came out about the lottery, we're pretty certain that we're not going to go now :cry: I'm pretty upset about it, but it was my suggestion that we change our plans, and after a lot of thought and discussion, he agreed. I'm not able to drive, but we had worked out a plan where I was going to pay for both of our tickets, and he was going to drive his vehicle there, so we'd both have a way of being able to get there safely and enjoy ourselves.

I've been saving up diligently for the tickets, so I wouldn't have minded paying a bit more for our tickets, just for the comfort of KNOWING I have them and that I'll definitely be able to get into BRC. I have a very demanding job, and can't wait until early summer to ask for the days off, and also can't wait until early summer to start buying all the gear we'd need. Both my boyfriend and I camp a lot so we do have some stuff already, but we don't have a lot of stuff that's made for the desert.

But yeah, long story short, I was really, REALLY looking forward to going to BM next year, and now I'm not, because they decided to turn it into a lottery.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Quaneshia Honeycooch » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:16 pm

>"My boyfriend and I had been planning to make our first trek to Burning Man in 2012, but after the news came out about the lottery, we're pretty certain that we're not going to go now."

Exxxxcellent Smithers. I see the plot is working as planned. <snarky rubbing of hands>
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby jkisha » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:18 pm

Oh well, your loss.

supportlivemusic wrote:My boyfriend and I had been planning to make our first trek to Burning Man in 2012, but after the news came out about the lottery, we're pretty certain that we're not going to go now :cry: I'm pretty upset about it, but it was my suggestion that we change our plans, and after a lot of thought and discussion, he agreed. I'm not able to drive, but we had worked out a plan where I was going to pay for both of our tickets, and he was going to drive his vehicle there, so we'd both have a way of being able to get there safely and enjoy ourselves.

I've been saving up diligently for the tickets, so I wouldn't have minded paying a bit more for our tickets, just for the comfort of KNOWING I have them and that I'll definitely be able to get into BRC. I have a very demanding job, and can't wait until early summer to ask for the days off, and also can't wait until early summer to start buying all the gear we'd need. Both my boyfriend and I camp a lot so we do have some stuff already, but we don't have a lot of stuff that's made for the desert.

But yeah, long story short, I was really, REALLY looking forward to going to BM next year, and now I'm not, because they decided to turn it into a lottery.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby junglesmacks » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:25 pm

Quaneshia Honeycooch wrote:>"My boyfriend and I had been planning to make our first trek to Burning Man in 2012, but after the news came out about the lottery, we're pretty certain that we're not going to go now."

Exxxxcellent Smithers. I see the plot is working as planned. <snarky rubbing of hands>



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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby trilobyte » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:26 pm

@supportlivemusic - If you guys are ready to throw in the towel over fears and concerns about a ticket plan whose details you don't even know, then yeah you're probably making the right decision in not going.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby supportlivemusic » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:56 am

Well, I guess I should reword things a bit. I'm still willing to put in the effort to go, but I don't think he is. I'm physically disabled and can't drive so it makes the logistics a bit harder for me, but all good things are worth working hard for, and BM is still something on the horizon for me personally, with some plans changed (i.e. I'll fly instead of drive). It just looks like now, it's not something we'll do together as a couple. And when it all comes down to it, I'd already mentioned to him that he shouldn't go if he's not totally down with it. It's better that this decision's made early on instead of when we're en route to BRC, anyway, yeah?
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby trilobyte » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:07 am

If he's not interested in putting forth the effort, that's an entirely different story (and not at all the fault of changes to the ticketing process). I do think that it's good you guys are talking about concerns, reservations, etc. early on (and that you continue to do so as you go), if you didn't it would probably end up with there being some kind of meltdown either later in the year while you're still planning, or out in the desert (and who wants that?). Hopefully once additional details are announced and we get a (*cough* long overdue *cough*) theme announcement, it'll help remove some of the fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby FenixFaye » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:21 am

I'm in the same boat.. my boyfriend and I were planing to have our first Burn next year. And in all honesty, I was planning on getting our tickets as soon as they became available rather than the last minute. I'm quite nervous now.. with all the planning that is required to go to something like this.. it's just turned all the BM goers into gamblers, which doesn't seem to fit right with the principles imo. Also, why the nasty attitude towards a newbie? For those of you who have been loyal to BM for years, I agree, your ticket should be set in stone. But do you really want to sift out those who haven't had the privilege to experience it yet??

I'm not giving up yet.. BM is the closest to utopia that I can think of. But if I start to get the feeling that I'm not wanted there simply because I've never been.. then my heart isn't going to be in it.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby FenixFaye » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:51 am

.. I know many of you don't feel that way.. I just understand supportlivemusic's concerns.. for someone who has never been to BM, this new system makes it much more complex..
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Tumbleweed11 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:25 am

@FenixFaye - please don't be put off by the unfriendly comments in this and also in other topics here. Eplaya is populated by a self-selected group of 'know-it-alls' who jump all over anyone else who dares post something into their pathetic little world that somehow doesn't sit right with them. While they'd swear to high heaven otherwise, they're the must unburner like people I have ever come across in the Burning Man Community. I only come on Eplaya for info, because all the joy you could potentially get on here is ruined by the same 20 people bullying others, while telling themselves its ok because they're just being snarky.

Do what works best for you and screw them.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby FenixFaye » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:28 am

Tumbleweed11 wrote:@FenixFaye - please don't be put off by the unfriendly comments in this and also in other topics here. Eplaya is populated by a self-selected group of 'know-it-alls' who jump all over anyone else who dares post something into their pathetic little world that somehow doesn't sit right with them. While they'd swear to high heaven otherwise, they're the must unburner like people I have ever come across in the Burning Man Community. I only come on Eplaya for info, because all the joy you could potentially get on here is ruined by the same 20 people bullying others, while telling themselves its ok because they're just being snarky.

Do what works best for you and screw them.



thx :P
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby remi » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:42 am

I'm confident that I will get a ticket, regardless of the method they decide to use for us to purchase them. That being said, I don't agree with the Lotto system, however, it's not the first time someone made an executive decision that I believe is a bad move. Perhaps the fine folk at BM with reconsider this choice due to public outcry... but I wouldn't count on it. The best thing any of us can do is to put on our seatbelts and enjoy the lotto ride. I won't start dishing out death threats until its' sold out, and I don't have a ticket.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby woodcheck » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:20 am

The option of purchasing a ticket at all tiers helped me to rest easier. If I am to be excluded from attending BM in 2012, I would prefer that the reason be because I wasn't persistent and or patient enough to just wait till the server could handle my transaction, or I would like it to be because I screwed up and dragged my feet! If it turns out that the lotto excludes me from the purchase of a ticket I wonder if I can get them to put my mutant car up in a Lotto so that my money won't go wasted....In that worst case scenario I guess I would consider my time nonreimbursable since I won't be able to get it back and no one else can use it in my absence. I am interested to see what they really come up with...Too Bad its already the middle of November and we still have not got all the facts on the new Lotto!
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby ellorbito » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:49 am

I agree with Figjam and JK.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:52 am

FenixFaye wrote:it's just turned all the BM goers into gamblers, which doesn't seem to fit right with the principles imo.

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Gambling is very much an immediace experience.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby CapSmashy » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:09 am

Tumbleweed11 wrote:@FenixFaye - please don't be put off by the unfriendly comments in this and also in other topics here. Eplaya is populated by a self-selected group of 'know-it-alls' who jump all over anyone else who dares post something into their pathetic little world that somehow doesn't sit right with them. While they'd swear to high heaven otherwise, they're the must unburner like people I have ever come across in the Burning Man Community. I only come on Eplaya for info, because all the joy you could potentially get on here is ruined by the same 20 people bullying others, while telling themselves its ok because they're just being snarky.

Do what works best for you and screw them.


No, it really is because they are all assholes. Most of the really bad ones do not even attend the event.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby illy dilly » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:16 am

jkisha wrote: As I'm one of those people that enjoy the excitement and frustration of landing a ticket on the first day, I don't much care for the lottery idea.

Was kinda fun huh?

And then when you finally get to the front of the line, its like a little mini victory!
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Savannah » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:58 pm

illy dilly wrote:
jkisha wrote: As I'm one of those people that enjoy the excitement and frustration of landing a ticket on the first day, I don't much care for the lottery idea.

Was kinda fun huh?

And then when you finally get to the front of the line, its like a little mini victory!


Oh, man! I definitely remember the endorphin rush of realizing "Holy Hell, I'm in!" and trying to balance speed of data entry with accuracy. Will the system collapse while I'm in it? Will I take too long, and end up in time-out hell? :lol:

I'll actually miss it. Call me twisted.

If anyone needs me, I'll be renting a car just so I can park it downtown, put 90 minutes in the meter, and do all my Christmas shopping before I get a ticket . . . just so I can feel alive.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:14 pm

Savannah wrote:
illy dilly wrote:
jkisha wrote: As I'm one of those people that enjoy the excitement and frustration of landing a ticket on the first day, I don't much care for the lottery idea.

Was kinda fun huh?

And then when you finally get to the front of the line, its like a little mini victory!


Oh, man! I definitely remember the endorphin rush of realizing "Holy Hell, I'm in!" and trying to balance speed of data entry with accuracy. Will the system collapse while I'm in it? Will I take too long, and end up in time-out hell? :lol:

I'll actually miss it. Call me twisted.

If anyone needs me, I'll be renting a car just so I can park it downtown, put 90 minutes in the meter, and do all my Christmas shopping before I get a ticket . . . just so I can feel alive.

But, but Savannah! Multiple lotteries. Mul. Ti. Ple. You'll feel so alive that you'll have to go lie down in the graveyard in order to function.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:17 pm

I'm on strike.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby jmd327 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:31 pm

Fix the old system! The reason why you are having problems with the servers is because you haven't hired the right people who know what they are actually doing. Ticket systems do work. Look at ticketmaster. They hold out just fine when they are crammed for tickets. Creating a lottery is absurd. There is a reason why people wait on line for hours. Because they want to know they have tickets in hand right away. Its their choice to wait in line for hours to buy the cheaper tickets. Some people have time to spend to wait hours because they may not have a job in this economy but they have the time to spend waiting for a cheap ticket. The people that don't have the time or choose not to wait are the people that don't care. And they don't mind spending money on more expensive tickets. Why in the world would you change this system? You are going to cut out an entire part of the Burningman community that has very little money, all the time in the world to wait in line, and relies on the system that is in place now to get to Burningman.
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Savannah » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:36 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:But, but Savannah! Multiple lotteries. Mul. Ti. Ple. You'll feel so alive that you'll have to go lie down in the graveyard in order to function.


I'd just end up picking ants out of the moss with slant-tip tweezers. :shock:
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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby Rice » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Maybe this new-fangled lottery will be unfair. We currently do not have enough information to make even a semi-informed opinion on how it works...
For all we could know, this might be an amazing experience. ?? Only time will tell.

I find the word lottery makes me nervous. But I am trying to keep that ulcer from forming until after the BM Org gives us more info.


As far as eplaya goes, I honestly have run into more jerks ON the playa than I ever have on this board. (Maybe I am not doing it right??)

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Re: Burning Man Lotto is UNFAIR! No LOTTO!

Postby FenixFaye » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:27 pm

stretch80 wrote:As far as eplaya goes, I honestly have run into more jerks ON the playa than I ever have on this board. (Maybe I am not doing it right??)



Really?? This is disheartening.
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