New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:33 pm

ahoy!

burning man is going to be filled with the real hard core people in 2012..
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Sham » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Wow, if this isn't Animal Farm all over again. This event was started by a group of young people many years back, as an exhibit of free expression and protest against authority. Now that these formerly young people are now old geezers, (no offense to other old geezers here (you know who you are)) we find ourselves planning an uprising against the Man.

Well there is no need for that action. I re-read the announcement, and everything is going to be fine. There will be plenty of tickets for everyone. I'm not sure how this is being misread.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby capjbadger » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:40 pm

cpart wrote:
Klondon wrote: Now, as insurance, I'm going to ask x amount of friends to join the lottery as well, knowing that I can always sell any additional tickets that were won using this approach.



You're just as good as the scalpers. This totally voids the lottery system. Good job on wrecking the new system before it even starts.

Yep, if you want a ticket now, act like a scapler, just without the selling of tickets at higher that face valu... oh wait, that's not a scapler at all. :roll:

Wait till the details come out, THEN game the system! Tear it down to its roots and force them to build something that works. :twisted:

Yelling our heads off on here sure doesn't work since the ORG doesn't listen for shit. :roll:

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:41 pm

Shambala wrote:Wow, if this isn't Animal Farm all over again. This event was started by a group of young people many years back, as an exhibit of free expression and protest against authority. Now that these formerly young people are now old geezers, (no offense to other old geezers here (you know who you are)) we find ourselves planning an uprising against the Man.

Well there is no need for that action. I re-read the announcement, and everything is going to be fine. There will be plenty of tickets for everyone. I'm not sure how this is being misread.

Hey, you're a moderator, you have to say that!!! LOL :wink:
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby wh..sh » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Jewel Man wrote:I am totally serious about the Occupy Black Rock City Movement and fighting the Establishment especially when the Establishment won't listen to the people they govern. 99% of the posts in this discussion group are against the Lotto and the ideas the Lotto represents. The Lotto says to hell with hard working people, we are going to make the odds of a person getting a ticket equal for a guy who plans and builds for 9 months equal to the tourist who decides a week before the event that they want a ticket because they learned that their favorite DJ is playing. Keep an eye out on Facebook for more details on the Occupy Black Rock City Movement!



OMF'ingG!

Sure lets all gather and protest against people who ACTUALLY do something! That helps! :roll:
They are private establishment who don't work on your tax dollars. Take or leave it.

And if you have decided to do some socialistic damage, atleast be original. OWS and such is sooooooooooooooo yesterday!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:47 pm

wh..sh wrote: OWS and such is sooooooooooooooo yesterday!
I think you might be wrong there.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:50 pm

jkisha wrote:
wh..sh wrote: OWS and such is sooooooooooooooo yesterday!
I think you might be wrong there.


yeah.. it was so last month
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Sham » Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:57 pm

jkisha wrote:
Shambala wrote:Wow, if this isn't Animal Farm all over again. This event was started by a group of young people many years back, as an exhibit of free expression and protest against authority. Now that these formerly young people are now old geezers, (no offense to other old geezers here (you know who you are)) we find ourselves planning an uprising against the Man.

Well there is no need for that action. I re-read the announcement, and everything is going to be fine. There will be plenty of tickets for everyone. I'm not sure how this is being misread.

Hey, you're a moderator, you have to say that!!! LOL :wink:

Well, I did take the Moderator's Hippocratic Oath, but that's not why I think the BMorg (herein known as "the all knowing, all seeing, exalted, omnipotent leaders") knows what's best for all of us.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby capjbadger » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:03 pm

jkisha wrote:Way too complicated. Listen, ticket sales is not some new phenomenon. Promoters have been selling event tickets for a long time, at numbers far larger, with much greater demand, than burning man. Why should anyone want to try and reinvent the wheel here? Just hire a ticket service that has the ability to do the job right.

End of story. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Finally some sense! :)

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Franklin1948 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:18 pm

I suspect that the real motivation behind the new ticket plan has nothing to do with fairness or making the ticket buying process more efficient. I think the real motivation is to get more money from the the most Enthusiastic Burners who buy their tickets early. Since buyers will be only able to enter a single lottery, in order to be insured of getting a ticket, buyers will have to choose a higher ticket price lottery - Otherwise they face the prospect of getting nothing and either skipping Burning Man or buying from a scalper.

The new system will also encourage scalpers who will have plenty of time to flood the lowest price lottery with multiple orders under different names.

As of 2012, Burning Man was supposed to be a non profit organization. I think the thought of the high ticket prices that some were scalpers were getting after tickets sold out this year, has caused the new people running things to because extra greedy.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby SunnySyd » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:19 pm

Nosferatu wrote:No, you are not being punished for having your shit together. You are being punished for ticket scalpers buying up tickets and selling them. Solve all this ticket nonsense by making them NOT transferable. If you buy a ticket you have to sell it back to BM and BM is the only place you can buy tix.



Yay! I agree with you. Good fix!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:24 pm

SunnySyd wrote:
Nosferatu wrote:No, you are not being punished for having your shit together. You are being punished for ticket scalpers buying up tickets and selling them. Solve all this ticket nonsense by making them NOT transferable. If you buy a ticket you have to sell it back to BM and BM is the only place you can buy tix.



Yay! I agree with you. Good fix!



yeah.. a good fix if we want to add on another 4+ hours to the entry gate mayhem..
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Franklin1948 wrote:As of 2012, Burning Man was supposed to be a non profit organization. I think the thought of the high ticket prices that some were scalpers were getting after tickets sold out this year, has caused the new people running things to because extra greedy.

I could be wrong about this, as I am only guessing, but I would imagine that "the new people running things" are "the same old people running things". Other than the entity's status, I don't believe the management has changed.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby sandgoddess » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:36 pm

I'm afraid that the Ticket/Lottery issue, is the least of our Burning Man problems. I have a terrible sense of impending chaos in 2012 Black Rock City. This may be enough, for me to not go. I want my burn to be peaceful, not full of malice. This is not funny to anyone who remembers them from way back when. I can't even bring myself to say:

The {*word i shall not speak} Society.

Here's the content of the email I received, without the link. I'm sure the link is a virus.

"Remember Us?
We control the Lottery, and many things yet to come.
We are the WHO that arrange's things in your house when your not looking...
The itching, burning that no ointment will ever soothe...
The monkey virus in the Big Top.
The kitsch loving anarchists of Life's Gravy Boat."
DEAL WITH IT!


I think they have infiltrated eplaya. I changed my screen name the other day, because of an ominous phone call, just prior to the JRS email about the tickets.

Be careful out there....these are not just peaceful protesters. If you have any questions, feel free to email me. I don't know if I have the energy in me anymore to battle with these guys. We need the younger generation to step up.
It's your turn.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby meaghanq » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:42 pm

Just another Burner with an option....

I attended the Burn in 2000, 2001, 2002 quite prepared with tickets well ahead of time and substantial art projects in tow. In 2010 I came back after an 8 hiatus and bought tickets two weeks before the Burn, as my husband left his job and we were suddenly able to take off for a couple of weeks. We knew it was pretty last minute and were grateful to have had the opportunity to go. In 2011 we bought tickets on the first day of sales in January as we were well prepared and intended to do a small scale art project (by BM standards).

I agree with one of the first posters, that have a lottery system DOES indeed punish those of us who have actually saved money, contributed time, effort and thought into our experience at BM. If I had not been able to buy tickets in 2010, due to my tardiness, I would not have blamed the organization but rather myself for not having my shit together in advance.

We have already re-tooled an art project and are in the works of planning our camp layout for next year, we live clear across the country and it's not a small journey to get to BRC.

I hope if you continue with this idea that you will be fair to those of us that have contributed over the years, and that you will do your best person by person to filter out scalpers.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:47 pm

Image

+

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+

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Rumbler » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:51 pm

I have attended the burn for many years coming from the US... I am now in Europe, and there are many Euro burners. This means buying a very expensive plane flight 6-8 months in advance <to get any kind of decent price>, and plan all camping gear etc. months in advance... ...and then possibly not have a ticket to get into the event? Burners coming from any distance HAVE to plan very early and invest in going...

I also am part of a Theme camp... we need ALL of our crew to make it happen... what if half don't win the lottery?

This is not whining.. it is a fact of going to BM. It takes many people, year round planning and money, to make Burning Man the experience it is for everyone...

This new ..ticket system will make it very challenging for many folks. Many burners are worried about this..instead of being able to relax and enjoy the process of building their art and projects for the coming burn.

I hope this gets ironed out! = )

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:56 pm

sandgoddess wrote:I have a terrible sense of impending chaos in 2012 Black Rock City.



HELL YES! ITS ABOUT TIME!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Simon of the Playa » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:08 pm

yeah, you know, last years beautiful weather, incredible artwork, and overall truly good vibe just gave me the fucking willies.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Rice » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:29 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:yeah, you know, last years beautiful weather, incredible artwork, and overall truly good vibe just gave me the fucking willies.


Nothing is worse than that feeling you get when everything goes, essentially, perfect...

I'm with you on this one Simon!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby cpart » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:49 pm

Nerdling wrote:
gyre wrote:
Klondon wrote:Normally I go on line and purchase two tickets for my wife and I. Now, as insurance, I'm going to ask x amount of friends to join the lottery as well, knowing that I can always sell any additional tickets that were won using this approach.

Just like the scalpers?

He doesn't really have much of a choice now does he? He did say he planned to resell (no where did he say for profit) so any extra tickets he got (if at all) would be going to burners who want them. So unless he plans to profit, which it sounds like he doesn't, he's leaps and bounds better than the scalpers.



I'm sorry, but no matter how much he plans to sell them for, it isn't okay. He is ruining the whole point of the lottery system by giving him and his wife a better chance at the tickets. Everyone should apply for only what they really need to make this lottery system be as fair as possible. A lot of us don't have the luxury of being able to pay for extra tickets if we accidentally win them. And just like before, if you can afford the higher tier, only apply for the higher tier.

Obviously everyone isn't going to follow suit, but the more that do the more fair it is for everyone.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby cpart » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:57 pm

Rumbler wrote:I have attended the burn for many years coming from the US... I am now in Europe, and there are many Euro burners. This means buying a very expensive plane flight 6-8 months in advance <to get any kind of decent price>, and plan all camping gear etc. months in advance... ...and then possibly not have a ticket to get into the event?



I'm pretty sure this got covered a LOT before this years Burn due to it selling out. And it is always, get your ticket first. If you don't want to wait to get your plane ticket then you should plan out a Trip B. There are a lot of amazing places to go and things to see in Nevada, California, Utah, even Oregon or Washington. And there is also a good variety of things to do for different people. It really will suck if a lot of dedicated Burners don't get to come this year because of the stupid lottery. Assuming that it will sell out again this year, it's going to end up sucking for a lot of Burners who have gone for many years no matter how the ticket sales are done. Get the money saved up early, apply for the lottery early, and just do what you can to give yourself the best chances at a ticket. Hopefully all the negative opinions on the subject make the BMORG reconsider or tweak the way they are going to do it. But all we can do right now is sit and wait for the announcement which is supposedly two weeks away.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:57 pm

sandgoddess wrote:I'm afraid that the Ticket/Lottery issue, is the least of our Burning Man problems. I have a terrible sense of impending chaos in 2012 Black Rock City. This may be enough, for me to not go. I want my burn to be peaceful, not full of malice. This is not funny to anyone who remembers them from way back when. I can't even bring myself to say:

The {*word i shall not speak} Society.

Here's the content of the email I received, without the link. I'm sure the link is a virus.

"Remember Us?
We control the Lottery, and many things yet to come.
We are the WHO that arrange's things in your house when your not looking...
The itching, burning that no ointment will ever soothe...
The monkey virus in the Big Top.
The kitsch loving anarchists of Life's Gravy Boat."
DEAL WITH IT!


I think they have infiltrated eplaya. I changed my screen name the other day, because of an ominous phone call, just prior to the JRS email about the tickets.

Be careful out there....these are not just peaceful protesters. If you have any questions, feel free to email me. I don't know if I have the energy in me anymore to battle with these guys. We need the younger generation to step up.
It's your turn.

:roll:
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby gyre » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:13 pm

There was some behavior at the early burns that might shock people now.

It certainly did then.

I don't know if it ties to cacaphony.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby sandgoddess » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:19 pm

gyre wrote:There was some behavior at the early burns that might shock people now.
It certainly did then.
I don't know if it ties to cacaphony.


:cry: But what if it does??!!
Everything's going to be ok. Maybe. Pass it on.

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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby H.G.Crosby » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:32 pm

OMFG!....they BUTCHERED the ticket Process and i'm a VEGAN!!!!


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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby moonrise » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:33 pm

sandgoddess wrote:
gyre wrote:There was some behavior at the early burns that might shock people now.
It certainly did then.
I don't know if it ties to cacaphony.


:cry: But what if it does??!!


Why not spill the beans? We've all heard stories, some on eplaya have witnessed them first hand...what's the scoop?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Sola Gangsta » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:34 pm

I think it's more logical to raise ticket prices than to have a lottery and use the money to make the burn better while keeping away the uncommitted. The demographics of last years demand and the rate of demand increase over the years would suggest the proper price structure to keep from selling out. Maybe BMorg doesn't want to raise it too much due to the 10 principles and not wanting to appear too commercial, but its what creates balance. Its not just a matter of keeping the uncommitted away, but a matter of restoring the balance of our footprint on nature. Cheap is not the way to go with an event like this.

As for occupy BRC, that was intended as a joke. The burners are among the ones doing the protesting at various Occupy#s, so why would they want to protest themselves?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Elderberry » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:39 pm

Yup, price is the best way to decrease (or at least keep the numbers down) attendance and not have to worry about creating a selling out panic.
Sola Gangsta wrote:I think it's more logical to raise ticket prices than to have a lottery and use the money to make the burn better while keeping away the uncommitted. The demographics of last years demand and the rate of demand increase over the years would suggest the proper price structure to keep from selling out. Maybe BMorg doesn't want to raise it too much due to the 10 principles and not wanting to appear too commercial, but its what creates balance. Its not just a matter of keeping the uncommitted away, but a matter of restoring the balance of our footprint on nature. Cheap is not the way to go with an event like this.

As for occupy BRC, that was intended as a joke. The burners are among the ones doing the protesting at various Occupy#s, so why would they want to protest themselves?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby SuperBugo_0 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:41 pm

Am I not mistaken when I'm saying that Principle number ONE of the Ten Principles of Burning Man state;

"Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community."

this 'lottery" system doesn't sound like this Burning Man to me....
Can someone please give me a logical reason for this ticketing system, because I have yet to see one.

This is a horrible idea, and I'm disappointed that it's being implemented.
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