New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

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New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby MrMullen » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:54 pm

If you have not read your JRS, I will save you the work and post the good part, the part about selling tickets:

IMPORTANT 2012 BURNING MAN TICKET INFORMATION

Changes and improvements are afoot for ticket sales to Burning Man 2012! Here's a first look at what to expect -- stand by for more complete information soon, but for now (we know, you're wondering!) here's a quick overview:

2011 provided two compelling reasons to change how tickets are sold: a challenging ticket launch day, and then, our first-ever sold-out event. Before the Man even fell in BRC, we got busy with a deep examination of our processes and technology - and of new ideas, some of them straight from your feedback - to figure out how to provide successful, smooth ticket sales in 2012.

The big news: tickets to Burning Man 2012 will be offered via a lottery system. This solution offers a two-fold benefit: it eliminates the annual ticket sales rush by spreading out registration over time (no more sitting in "line" all day, no more getting kicked out of the queue, no sudden unwieldy server demand!) -- and it begins to address the challenges of scarcity. We are also intent upon creating a balance of opportunity across a few months time.

We'll have more details coming very soon (including deadlines and prices) but here's a summary of the major changes to how tickets will be obtained:

- You'll first register for the ticket lottery during a 2-week open registration period. At that time, you'll declare which of the pricing tiers you'd be willing to pay, and provide a valid credit card number.
- After the registration period, we will run separate lotteries for each ticket tier. If your name is selected, at this point your credit card will be billed, and you'll receive a ticket confirmation.
- There will be several consecutive lottery rounds.
- You will only be able to purchase tickets from one lottery
- Yhere will be a limited number of tickets per person
- Ticket fulfillment will be held until early summer.

And YOU, JRS subscriber, will be the first to receive information and get a chance to register! Coming up soon, we will be announcing full details, pricing tiers, dates of the registration period and lottery round announcements, and of course a big fat FAQ.

PRE-SALES: We also announce the return of a limited Pre-Sale, timed around the holidays. These "pre-sale" tickets will be offered at a significantly higher price than the very lowest tier of tickets; they'll also be sold via a lottery system. (This also affords a chance for us all to experience the lottery program with a smaller subset of ticket buyers before the main rollout begins.)

REDUCED PRICE PROGRAMS: We continue to welcome and support attendance for lower-income participants, so we will be overhauling the Low Income and Scholarship ticket programs in 2012. The two similar programs are being merged into one, to create a hybrid that will retain the best features of each -- and serve more people, since we're also increasing the number of these tickets that will be available.

The JRS and http://tickets.burningman.com should be your primary source of information over any Facebook page, twitter feed, locker room or water cooler chatter". The first registration will start before the end of November. Read your JRS regularly to be informed.

Got questions now? We know you do!...but please wait until the full details are released before you send us your questions - all will be revealed shortly. DO NOT EMAIL us, we will not answer questions about the ticket process on any of our aliases until all the info is out.

Visit the ePlaya ticket threads at http://bit.ly/BM2012Tickets and discuss and ask questions openly so we can answer in a way that benefits more people.


I am going to be the first to say: STUPIDEST IDEA EVER!!!!

Let me get this straight, I have my shit together, buy two tickets (My wife and I) and have for the last eight YEARS and now BMORG wants to punish me? Now, I have enter a lottery and take my chances? Are the people who have their shit together getting punished because a handful of people could not decide to go to Burningman or could not get their shit together to buy a ticket between the month of January and July? Give me a break. A lot of things are not fair in this world, and not getting ticket because you could not be bothered to buy a ticket in a 6 month time span just means you should not go to Burningman. Seriously, not to be a drama cry baby, but I might not make it a 9th year.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Dr Jet Sinister » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:57 pm

Fuck everything about this.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:00 pm

cue the radically entitled idiots who are gonna whine and moan !!!


..cue idiots stomping around because they wont get a lowest tier ticket!!!

cue idiots who try to buy tickets for their whole camp who complain about not being able to plan costs!


oh this will be good


(edit: the first post sets a high bar of entitled whinyness.. can you do better?)

(edit: cue people feeling punished)
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby dav725 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:05 pm

Why is it then when people need to overhaul an ailing system, they always come up with some huge ridiculous plan...like a lottery. This sounds more confusing, more frustrating than ever. And FUCK the people who are just going to label those who disagree with this program and 'moaners and whiners'. We're allowed our opinions...and this ridiculous plan is going to be very unpopular.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Nosferatu » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:08 pm

No, you are not being punished for having your shit together. You are being punished for ticket scalpers buying up tickets and selling them. Solve all this ticket nonsense by making them NOT transferable. If you buy a ticket you have to sell it back to BM and BM is the only place you can buy tix.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:10 pm

i think this is a GREAT idea.


no more pointless rush.. no more idiots clamoring to save a few bucks 8 months before the event even happens (lol)

no more "i got my shit together, i was in line at 10am and all i got was a 2nd tier ticket!!!"

no more of lotsa the old complaints..


but TONS of new ones, oh, i cant wait to see what butthurt whiny shit we are gonna get over the next year from the entitled assholes.

I for one welcome our new lottery based ticketing overlords.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:12 pm

dav725 wrote: And FUCK the people who are just going to label those who disagree with this program and 'moaners and whiners'. We're allowed our opinions...and this ridiculous plan is going to be very unpopular.


stop whining.

if you dont like it you could always stay home and not buy any tickets.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby M_FULL_OF_GRACE » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:12 pm

Does this mean it is all a game of chance? Even if I am willing to pay the highest tier? Am I understanding this correctly? Last year the ticket was purchased for me so I am new to the whole process. All I want is to go a second time, I do not care what the price of the ticket. :(
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby aranea » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:13 pm

Lemur, I have to say that you sound like the whiniest person here so far. :|
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Nipple » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:14 pm

It's a game of chance... but there are about 50,000 chances to win, and about 50,000 winners.

Play early...play often.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby MrMullen » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:15 pm

lemur wrote:but TONS of new ones, oh, i cant wait to see what butthurt whiny shit we are gonna get over the next year from the entitled assholes.


How is having your shit together at 10a on ticket selling day being an entitled asshole? You sound like the entitled asshole by demanding, even though you have not put in the same effort as me, you desirve the same reward. It does not work that way. Those who put the effort forward, should get the reward. Those who do not, do not get the reward.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Jammies » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:15 pm

This is a really terrible idea for a number of reasons.

1. Large camps may end up losing key members due to sheer bad luck.
2. Small camps may end up losing people who are NECESSARY to actually get there (i.e: transportation).
3. Families might end up with one member getting a ticket and another member not, meaning the entire family can't go.
4. Bands (I'm not even talking about the popular ones) might lose a member for no reason.
5. For people with low limits on their credit cards, it means they have to constantly monitor their usage so their card doesn't get declined (instead of having the correct balance ready at the right moment).
6. And yes, it screws with people's cost planning.

People can say this is "whiny entitled bullshit" but really, this event is supposed to be about having fun and a good time. Getting out there is stressful enough, what with all the planning and expenses, and this just adds the stress of uncertainty. Which camp member will end up fucked out of a ticket due to sheer bad luck? Which limited-income person will get placed into the highest tier of tickets due to random chance?

If scalpers are the issue, make the tickets non-transferrable! If someone wants to sell their ticket, have them send it in, destroy it, and issue the new person a new ticket for a nominal fee! That solves so many of the "scarcity" problems out there all by itself, which would be far easier to implement and far more popular to boot.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:17 pm

aranea wrote:Lemur, I have to say that you sound like the whiniest person here so far. :|



oh yeah, i am whining.. in fact, its gonna suck a lot to read about all of the radically entitled fools who will crap their pants because burning man tickets arent released the same way they have been for YEARS.

!!!

yeah, i dont want to see that shit.. because its whining and wussie ass.

"oh no!! this totally optional vacation event that i go to for fun isnt directly shoving a free ticket up my ass!!! oh noes!!!"

i dont like to see my fellow community members devolve into pointless butthurt reactions because they didnt save $30 on a ticket price for an event that costs many hundreds to attend...

yeah.. i am whining, because ya know.. i just wish some in this community would not give a shit about being first, or saving some money.. or people catering to their every whim.


shit, they sell tickets their way.. tradition is life.. if youre boring.. shit got changed.. tickets will still be sold, you'll get one if you want it... whats the big deal with how you get it?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby M_FULL_OF_GRACE » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:19 pm

Nipple wrote:It's a game of chance... but there are about 50,000 chances to win, and about 50,000 winners.

Play early...play often.



Thank you...
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Vorpal Blade » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:20 pm

Nosferatu's idea is actually the one that makes most sense in terms of fairness and ensuring that tix stay within the community - but it comes with significant administrative costs for the BMORG.

A lottery is, in some ways, pure genius. Especially given that you will only be allowed to participate in one tier of the lottery, it should drive those people who most want to go to select the highest ticket tier, with the likelihood being that there will be a greater % chance of getting a ticket at that tier, as there should be fewer people willing to pay.

This will almost certainly result in more people paying for higher tier fix, which puts more money in the pocketses of the BMORG. If they didn't do really impressive sh*t with that $$, this would be objectionable in its own right.

But, it is objectionable anyway, as it almost certainly has the result of rewarding the wealthy while diminishing the number of less-economically advantaged people who can participate. Personally, i think this has a detrimental effect on both the event as a whole and the community as a whole.

but, you know. I don't actually have a better idea.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby mullingitover » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:20 pm

This is a great system for the scalpers. With the old way, they had to scramble to buy tickets with everyone else. Now they can pack the lottery at their leisure. This will be a great year for them.

If you really want to solve your woes, make the tickets non-transferable and use amazon's cloud for your backend. Problem solved.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby lemur » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:20 pm

MrMullen wrote:
lemur wrote:but TONS of new ones, oh, i cant wait to see what butthurt whiny shit we are gonna get over the next year from the entitled assholes.


How is having your shit together at 10a on ticket selling day being an entitled asshole? You sound like the entitled asshole by demanding, even though you have not put in the same effort as me, you desirve the same reward. It does not work that way. Those who put the effort forward, should get the reward. Those who do not, do not get the reward.



because you think that being in line at 10am with money in hand entitles you to anything.


the rules have changed.. we arent first come first serve anymore, tough luck.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby aranea » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:22 pm

lemur wrote:yeah, i dont want to see that shit.. because its whining and wussie ass.


Then don't read it.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby CapSmashy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:23 pm

Jammies wrote:This is a really terrible idea for a number of reasons.

1. Large camps may end up losing key members due to sheer bad luck.
2. Small camps may end up losing people who are NECESSARY to actually get there (i.e: transportation).
3. Families might end up with one member getting a ticket and another member not, meaning the entire family can't go.
4. Bands (I'm not even talking about the popular ones) might lose a member for no reason.
5. For people with low limits on their credit cards, it means they have to constantly monitor their usage so their card doesn't get declined (instead of having the correct balance ready at the right moment).
6. And yes, it screws with people's cost planning.


All of that and more.

I can say that this news will definitely put a serious hold on what we were planning to finance and build for the 2012 event.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby EspressoDude » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:26 pm

Lottery sucks big time!

Part of the Burning Man event involves a lot of early scheduling commitments regarding work and family and $$ committed to renting things like RV's as early as mid January. With the lottery system a person does not know if they are going to get a ticket or their camp mates are all going to be able to get tickets.

scenario 1: you sign up for the lottery, give credit card info. Then rent the RV.....oops, sorry no tickets..You are FUCKED for lots of money

scenario 2: you sign up for the lottery, give credit card info. Plan a theme camp with a bunch of people...oops, sorry no tickets..You are FUCKED with a theme camp of one or two.

scenario 3: you sign up for the lottery, give credit card info. Plan a Mutant Vehicle with another person and half way through construction and big $$ spent...oops, sorry no tickets..You are FUCKED with half a MV.

scenario 4: you sign up for the lottery, give credit card info. Plan a big Art Project with another person and half way through construction and big $$ spent...oops, sorry no tickets..You are FUCKED with half an Art Project

If Burning Man was a Rock Concert where there are performers and you purchase SPECTATOR TICKETS, this system might work.
Burning man is a participatory event where the PERFORMERS and ARTISTS are also the ticket buyers, this system will not work.

Why build any art or a theme camp if there is a big chance you will not get a ticket. Those of us that plan and build things buy tickets first.
Those that buy tickets in June or July are likely SPECTATORS only and if they are too late and the event is sold out...well .....
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby MrMullen » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:27 pm

mullingitover wrote:This is a great system for the scalpers. With the old way, they had to scramble to buy tickets with everyone else. Now they can pack the lottery at their leisure. This will be a great year for them.

If you really want to solve your woes, make the tickets non-transferable and use amazon's cloud for your backend. Problem solved.


Two great points.

What new ticket system screams is; "Our IT Department sucks and we won't pay for a REAL Ticket seller, so we're just going to create some ticket selling scheme that does not solve any of the issues we need to solve".
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:27 pm

Lame.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby sulli » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:27 pm

I'm not panicking over the term "lottery", but the org would do well to reassure participants that they'll get their tickets if they buy them at the right time. If it turns out that long-time participants can't even buy at full price, we will have a BIG problem on our hands.

Clarification please: what do returning burners need to do to be sure to get tix? That's really all we need to know.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby Nickel » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Saying that this is a good idea and that people complaining are 'entitled' and 'whiners' is entitled in it's own self, maybe more so. the BMORG is just an institution, they can make bad choices, and as a community we can complain. Sometimes that changes things. I'm pretty sure there is a movement across the country right now telling a bunch of institutions that they're wrong and messed up, and maybe it'll change something, maybe it wont. Are some of those people entitled, selfish idiots? Of course! Are some of the people complaining here also? Of course!

The point is, this seems like a terrible way to solve this. Especially when tickets assigned to a particular person exist as an option. The BMORG could even make more money with a restocking fee of some sort.

This is just weird, seems over complicated and there should be a better way. If there isn't we'll all figure it out, but that doesn't mean we can whine and scream and yell about it. Burners of all people will figure out how to make it work, but telling us not to discuss this and be mad, that's just stupid. In my opinion, it's more annoying, especially when the tone is so aggressive.

Can't this be discussed without anger on both sides? We could come up with constructive alternatives, positives and negatives and PRESENT THEM and maybe CHANGE THINGS.

All this absurdity on both sides does nothing to help.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby chris2010 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:29 pm

Jammies wrote:This is a really terrible idea for a number of reasons.

1. Large camps may end up losing key members due to sheer bad luck.
2. Small camps may end up losing people who are NECESSARY to actually get there (i.e: transportation).
3. Families might end up with one member getting a ticket and another member not, meaning the entire family can't go.
4. Bands (I'm not even talking about the popular ones) might lose a member for no reason.
5. For people with low limits on their credit cards, it means they have to constantly monitor their usage so their card doesn't get declined (instead of having the correct balance ready at the right moment).
6. And yes, it screws with people's cost planning.

People can say this is "whiny 'entitled bullshit" but really, this event is supposed to be about having fun and a good time. Getting out there is stressful enough, what with all the planning and expenses, and this just adds the stress of uncertainty. Which camp member will end up fucked out of a ticket due to sheer bad luck? Which limited-income person will get placed into the highest tier of tickets due to random chance?

If scalpers are the issue, make the tickets non-transferrable! If someone wants to sell their ticket, have them send it in, destroy it, and issue the new person a new ticket for a nominal fee! That solves so many of the "scarcity" problems out there all by itself, which would be far easier to implement and far more popular to boot.


I totally agree!!!
This new system is a bad idea!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby theCryptofishist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:32 pm

When will we hear what the population cap will be? Because that's going to be important.
And what happens if your credit card expires or is stolen between when you hand it out and when your lottery happens?
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby sanukphoto » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:33 pm

Hi There! I am not at all happy about the way you will allocate tickets. I hold concerts (For the Amazon Foundation - with my partner Paul Oakenfold) so I know a little about ticket sales. Up to last year BM was not sold out so there was no problem with ticket touts / re-sellers grabbing tickets and making big money. Now of course every scalper is in line for tickets as they can sell them for double or whatever.

Each scalper in LA has like 100 "minions" that buy tickets for them (as there is usually a limit). The scalpers pay them a small profit and then re-sell the tickets at a huge profit.

So now, for every real Burner trying to get tickets - each scalper will employ 100 kids to be in the same lottery - and guess what - scalpers will end up with 50% plus of all tickets. Mark my word - watch out for the secondary ticket market next year.

And how about long time burners that suddenly don't get to go? People that have supported the event for 10 years or whatever. You think that is fair?

I think first and foremost you should allocate to all 2011 ticket holders the same amount of tickets that they or their group purchased. THAT IS THE VERY LEAST YOU CAN DO to be fair to and respect real burners. Even if it is at a higher ticket price - don't have a lottery for scalpers and re-sellers and kick out the people that were there last year.

Once you have taken care of your real/true fans/burners - go do whatever you want to do with the left over tickets - BUT DO NOT KICK OUT PEOPLE LIKE US WHO HAVE BEEN GOING FOR YEARS - forcing us to buy tickets on the after market - which often are fake. PLEASE BE FAIR. Don't turn this into a commercial affair for rich kids only - which is what it will become and you will destroy the event.

By the way - I am happy to subsidize tickets for kids that can't afford the high prices - hereby will grant you $1,000 towards affordable tickets!
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby LittleJack » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:33 pm

I certainly was expecting more transparency in the ticketing process, not less. A lottery system means nobody outside of the BORG/Ticketing agency has any information about how tickets are distributed.

The other critical bit of missing info is when the lottery will be done. If the first pull is in early January, then plans can be made as usual. I know that this year I'll most likely put in for an extra ticket or two just in case my friends don't get theirs, and vice versa. Since I'm sure others will do that too, there should be plenty of aftermarket tickets come the 3rd or 4th round of the lottery.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby dangerpuss » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:35 pm

Another problem is that this creates uncertainty for those of us planning art installations, theme camps, mutant vehicles, etc. I must now ask myself whether or not I should I go ahead with the time-consuming, labor intensive (a labor of love, mind you) plans I have for our theme camp. It would break my heart to put so much into it only to find out in the early summer that all of my work was for nothing because I wasn't selected in the lottery. I'm sure that everyone who starts their builds early in order to bring something wonderful to share is now asking themselves the same question. I worry that the on-playa experience may suffer because people won't start building until they know with certainty that they have a ticket, and thus will have less time to put something truly amazing together.
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Re: New Burningman Ticket Process - 2012

Postby junglesmacks » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:35 pm

The biggest questions that I have are:

- How many lotteries will there be total?

- What are the frequency/dates of these lotteries?
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